[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

OT-NBA Season Thread-Around the NBA HORN
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 16 of 29 « First‹ Previous 14  15  16  17  18 Next ›Last »
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
Chandler
Posts: 25982
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/26/2015
Member: #6197
1/17/2019  7:28 AM
There’s no search button. I’m calling BS on the Donovan call. Guy is right the debate was dsj and monk. A lot of revisionism. Anyone who even mentioned his name in passing is now claiming he found him

There were one or two prescient pushers of Mitchell on the board but I don’t remember H being one

Briggs was a critic because of his handle

There’s no shame in a poster missing on Donovan. A lot of front offices did. Everyone was worried about his range and thT his shot was flat (since fixed)

Denver traded that slot and Rudy G’s slot to Utah. An otherwise good organization twice made huge flubs

(5)(5)
AUTOADVERT
Chandler
Posts: 25982
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/26/2015
Member: #6197
1/17/2019  7:29 AM
Hats off to Nets. Their coach and FO inherited a worse mess than Phil did

They are rebuilding right, and playing right

(5)(5)
HofstraBBall
Posts: 27183
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 11/21/2015
Member: #6192
1/17/2019  9:44 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/17/2019  10:00 AM
Cartman718 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:All those DSJr lovers over Frank...look Mavs looking to trade him already. Mavs liked DSJr so much that they traded away their #5 pick from this past draft plus the 2019 first round pick to get Doncic.

Like Lebitch said...Mavs got a real player in DSJr....Knicks dropped the ball.

So your point is that this years rookie of the year pushed out Smith. And that makes Smith worse than Frank? Ok, So who is pushing Frank out of the Knicks? Or do we have a ROY candidate on the Knicks i have not seen? See the logic.


Put it this way...if Frank was on the Mavs, he'd probably not get pushed out by Doncic and probably would still find a role on the team. See the logic?

A role? What role? Frank cant even get off the bench on a horrible Knick team? People can keep imagining their expectations of Frank are a reality. Fact is he has not been very good right now. Do I wish he had lived up to expectations. Yes. Do I think we should give up on him? No. But stop with the Frank is better than Smith becasue the Mavs have found a play maker and may need to make that player the center piece. As for logic.. your saying Smith has no role on the Mavs? Is being benched due to his level of play?

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
HofstraBBall
Posts: 27183
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 11/21/2015
Member: #6192
1/17/2019  9:51 AM
Chandler wrote:There’s no search button. I’m calling BS on the Donovan call. Guy is right the debate was dsj and monk. A lot of revisionism. Anyone who even mentioned his name in passing is now claiming he found him

There were one or two prescient pushers of Mitchell on the board but I don’t remember H being one

Briggs was a critic because of his handle

There’s no shame in a poster missing on Donovan. A lot of front offices did. Everyone was worried about his range and thT his shot was flat (since fixed)

Denver traded that slot and Rudy G’s slot to Utah. An otherwise good organization twice made huge flubs

Search away. Smith, Mitchell and Monk were my preferred order. Not that it matters as I have always said the draft is a risky lottery. Its mostly luck. Specially projecting how 19 year old will pan out. However, never thought Frank should have been our pick and had many debates on DS vs Frank. Let me know if you want to get in on it. Still think we should keep Frank as I do not feel you should give on draft picks within the first few years. Funny how the only guys that have a problem being reminded of Mitchell and Smith are the ones that though Phil did a great job picking a Euro 19 year old suited for the Triangle.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
Cartman718
Posts: 29068
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/12/2007
Member: #1694
1/17/2019  9:56 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:A role? What role? Frank cant even get off the bench on a horrible Knick team? People can keep imagining their expectations of Frank are a reality. Fact is he has not been very good. Do I wish he had lived up to expectations. Yes. Do I think we should give up on him? No. But stop with the Frank is better than Smith becasue the Mavs have found a play maker and may need to make that player the center piece. As for logic.. your saying Smith has no role on the Mavs? Is being benched due to his level of play?

I am saying that he could go to the bench and find a role on the same team, obviously the Mavs don't believe that he can't do that, hence they are looking to move him.

Now that bold part...that's a lie. He has not been very good, but he's had flashes. And for all the consistency that you cite for DSJr including his 5 assists a game, obviously the Mavs FO disagrees with you...do you think there's another reason they want to move on? They essentially are saying, we'll give up 3 lottery picks for Luka.
The 2018 and 2019 picks + DSJr. If he was so much better than Frank really, why are the Mavs so eager to move on so quickly in his young career?

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
HofstraBBall
Posts: 27183
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 11/21/2015
Member: #6192
1/17/2019  9:59 AM
KnickDanger wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
KnickDanger wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:All those DSJr lovers over Frank...look Mavs looking to trade him already. Mavs liked DSJr so much that they traded away their #5 pick from this past draft plus the 2019 first round pick to get Doncic.

Like Lebitch said...Mavs got a real player in DSJr....Knicks dropped the ball.

So your point is that this years rookie of the year pushed out Smith. And that makes Smith worse than Frank? Ok, So who is pushing Frank out of the Knicks? Or do we have a ROY candidate on the Knicks i have not seen? See the logic.

Regardless of the ageless "Frank vs DSJ" debate, it seems that the Mavs do not see Smith jr. as complementary with their young star. A shoot first, low percentage, little defense point guard who has trouble staying on the floor -- can't see why.

Oh, and for those who switch their focus from DSJ to Mitchell as to how we (Phil) screwed up the 2017 draft -- how many were calling for Mitchell at the time? Uh huh....

Actually, many on here, including myself, were calling for Mitchell. He had a very promising workout with the Knicks, at the time, and was said to be one of the front runners. He was also a local boy from Westchester. But maybe you were not posting back then to realize that. And lets not get into what Phil (Not ageless) screwed up. I don't want to post the long spreadsheet again.

Agree that Smith Jr. is not a complementary piece for Doncic, as I mentioned. They would benefit more from a 3pt. shooter that can spread the floor. Don't think that would be Frank. But your making it more like a knock on Smith when its more of what Doncic is and can do. Which as mentioned is at the ROY level. Fact is Doncic plays real well with the ball in his hands. Is now their playmaker. Making Smiths fit a bit more challenging as he is a playmaker. That's it. But ok, lets make it about Smith not being good enough. Once again, don't think you watched many Dallas games. If you did you would see that Smith is not really a "Shoot first" player. Kid had 5.2 assists in first year. Scored 15.2 per and shot 44% from the field as well. Not exactly crapping the bed. Frank first year stats? And are you saying that most teams today would prefer Frank over Smith?

Bottom line is that the possible trade is about how the Mavs have found a special player and need to find complimentary pieces. That we agree on. Don't agree that its about Smith lack of ability or potential. Btw, this is just still a rumor. I don't think it makes sense for Dallas to trade for Frank as he is not a complimentary piece for Doncic. Timmy makes sense but Frank not so much. Unless they see him as a wing defender off the bench to go with lil JJ.

You are correct -- I was not on this board in 2017. But I did post elsewhere and listened to a lot of sports talk. I personally was aware of Mitchell and his rising stock as were others. But the majority of discussion was Frank, DSJ, or Monk. And the hellfire that followed (see Stephen A) was over not picking Smith jr. not about Mitchell. A ruckus that has subsided as DSJ star has faded. It is my opinion that the majority of Mitchell whining is largely revisionist. But I accept you were championing him -- good job by you then.

More to the point -- "Frank vs DSJ" -- I suppose I do think Frank would have a higher value to more GMs yes. But that is just an opinion. And I guess I am knocking DSJ for the reasons I perceive this -- mediocre production for the amount he touches the ball and mediocre defense. I am not praising Frank here though -- he has been disappointing. But I think there is a decent possibility that he hasn't reached near his ceiling (as they say) while DSJ probably is very close to having reached his. Again all opinion. And it is also my guess the majority FOs of the NBA perceive this -- if they care. We'll see.

Wish you were right. Fact is that's not the case. Numbers nor reality agree with you. Most troubling to me has been the demotion by our coach. The guy that is closest to his progress. Although I did not see a reason for it, Fiz saw something that made him feel Frank was not what he hoped. Do think Frank should have been allowed to start more games and log a lot more minutes. Thought it would be a true way to judge his progress. Also thought I saw progress early in the year. Like I said, hope we keep him and he proves me wrong.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
HofstraBBall
Posts: 27183
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 11/21/2015
Member: #6192
1/17/2019  10:12 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/17/2019  10:14 AM
Cartman718 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:A role? What role? Frank cant even get off the bench on a horrible Knick team? People can keep imagining their expectations of Frank are a reality. Fact is he has not been very good. Do I wish he had lived up to expectations. Yes. Do I think we should give up on him? No. But stop with the Frank is better than Smith becasue the Mavs have found a play maker and may need to make that player the center piece. As for logic.. your saying Smith has no role on the Mavs? Is being benched due to his level of play?

I am saying that he could go to the bench and find a role on the same team, obviously the Mavs don't believe that he can't do that, hence they are looking to move him.

Now that bold part...that's a lie. He has not been very good, but he's had flashes. And for all the consistency that you cite for DSJr including his 5 assists a game, obviously the Mavs FO disagrees with you...do you think there's another reason they want to move on? They essentially are saying, we'll give up 3 lottery picks for Luka.
The 2018 and 2019 picks + DSJr. If he was so much better than Frank really, why are the Mavs so eager to move on so quickly in his young career?

Flashes yes but as you said, he has not been very good. My point.

Reiterate the fact that you are making this about Smith not being very good. Think its just a way to try to win the Smith vs Frank argument as there is no other way to do so atm. This is about Luca period. Unless your ignoring that Luca may be and has played like a possible Franchise player and slotted to be the ROY. He was also the Number one pick essentially. Fact is, Smith is not being pushed out by a 2nd round stash pick or an undrafted pickup. (Dotson, Trier). Luca was not a pick that the Mavs envisioned, prior to picking Smith. They got lucky that the Hawks were dumb enough to give up on him and that he has panned out to be a possible generational prospect. No bearing on Smiths ability or potential.

Again, would rather give up some of our over achievers and do not think we should deal Frank but if the deal gets done, which I doubt, I would not be disappointed. Is it guaranteed the Smith will pan out better than Frank? No one knows that.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
knickslions
Posts: 21004
Alba Posts: 25
Joined: 10/30/2001
Member: #138
1/17/2019  10:14 AM
Houston took 70 three point attempts last night. Crazy
knicks1248
Posts: 42059
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
1/17/2019  10:20 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/17/2019  10:20 AM
knickslions wrote:Houston took 70 three point attempts last night. Crazy

yeah and the pelicans and GSW combine to hit 43 three's last night...

eventually it's going to come down to 2 things,

1)if you can't shoot a 3, you career will be brief

2)they need to either move the line back, or create a 4 point shot

ES
Cartman718
Posts: 29068
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/12/2007
Member: #1694
1/17/2019  10:23 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:A role? What role? Frank cant even get off the bench on a horrible Knick team? People can keep imagining their expectations of Frank are a reality. Fact is he has not been very good. Do I wish he had lived up to expectations. Yes. Do I think we should give up on him? No. But stop with the Frank is better than Smith becasue the Mavs have found a play maker and may need to make that player the center piece. As for logic.. your saying Smith has no role on the Mavs? Is being benched due to his level of play?

I am saying that he could go to the bench and find a role on the same team, obviously the Mavs don't believe that he can't do that, hence they are looking to move him.

Now that bold part...that's a lie. He has not been very good, but he's had flashes. And for all the consistency that you cite for DSJr including his 5 assists a game, obviously the Mavs FO disagrees with you...do you think there's another reason they want to move on? They essentially are saying, we'll give up 3 lottery picks for Luka.
The 2018 and 2019 picks + DSJr. If he was so much better than Frank really, why are the Mavs so eager to move on so quickly in his young career?

Flashes yes but as you said, he has not been very good. My point.

Reiterate the fact that you are making this about Smith not being very good. Think its just a way to try to win the Smith vs Frank argument as there is no other way to do so atm. This is about Luca period. Unless your ignoring that Luca may be and has played like a possible Franchise player and slotted to be the ROY. He was also was the Number one pick essentially. Fact is, Smith is not being pushed out by a 2nd round stash pick or an undrafted pickup. (Dotson, Trier). Luca was not a pick that the Mavs envisioned. They got lucky that the Hawks were dumb enough to give up on and he has panned out to be a generational prospect. But lets make this about Smith ability.

Again, would rather give up some of our over achievers and do not think we should deal Frank but if the deal gets done, which I doubt, I would not be disappointed. Is it guaranteed the Smith will pan out better than Frank? No one knows that.


Steph Curry is a generational player too...somehow Shaun Livingston has still managed to be on the team as his backup.
Ditto Austin Rivers backing up CP3 for so many years. So your argument that good players will get pushed out regardless of who's in front of them on the depth chart is baseless.

Maybe he just doesn't want to accept a bench role and the Mavs said ok, we'll find you a new home?

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
HofstraBBall
Posts: 27183
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 11/21/2015
Member: #6192
1/17/2019  10:38 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/17/2019  12:37 PM
Cartman718 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:A role? What role? Frank cant even get off the bench on a horrible Knick team? People can keep imagining their expectations of Frank are a reality. Fact is he has not been very good. Do I wish he had lived up to expectations. Yes. Do I think we should give up on him? No. But stop with the Frank is better than Smith becasue the Mavs have found a play maker and may need to make that player the center piece. As for logic.. your saying Smith has no role on the Mavs? Is being benched due to his level of play?

I am saying that he could go to the bench and find a role on the same team, obviously the Mavs don't believe that he can't do that, hence they are looking to move him.

Now that bold part...that's a lie. He has not been very good, but he's had flashes. And for all the consistency that you cite for DSJr including his 5 assists a game, obviously the Mavs FO disagrees with you...do you think there's another reason they want to move on? They essentially are saying, we'll give up 3 lottery picks for Luka.
The 2018 and 2019 picks + DSJr. If he was so much better than Frank really, why are the Mavs so eager to move on so quickly in his young career?

Flashes yes but as you said, he has not been very good. My point.

Reiterate the fact that you are making this about Smith not being very good. Think its just a way to try to win the Smith vs Frank argument as there is no other way to do so atm. This is about Luca period. Unless your ignoring that Luca may be and has played like a possible Franchise player and slotted to be the ROY. He was also was the Number one pick essentially. Fact is, Smith is not being pushed out by a 2nd round stash pick or an undrafted pickup. (Dotson, Trier). Luca was not a pick that the Mavs envisioned. They got lucky that the Hawks were dumb enough to give up on and he has panned out to be a generational prospect. But lets make this about Smith ability.

Again, would rather give up some of our over achievers and do not think we should deal Frank but if the deal gets done, which I doubt, I would not be disappointed. Is it guaranteed the Smith will pan out better than Frank? No one knows that.


Steph Curry is a generational player too...somehow Shaun Livingston has still managed to be on the team as his backup.
Ditto Austin Rivers backing up CP3 for so many years. So your argument that good players will get pushed out regardless of who's in front of them on the depth chart is baseless.

Maybe he just doesn't want to accept a bench role and the Mavs said ok, we'll find you a new home?

Don't understand the point you are trying to make. So Smith is at the same level as Shaun Livingston? Austin Rivers backing up CP3 makes Smith a bad player? Smith should accept a bench role and is a bad team mate because he wont?

What the Mavs are doing, which is smart, is that they are looking to trade their 1ST ROUND PICK (As it is a high value asset) for a piece that BETTER fits LUCA. Why would they keep a high value asset to put him on the bench? Same reason the Knicks may move on from Frank. BIG DIFFERENCE is that Frank is not being pushed out by an essential NO. 1 overall pick. You don't see the difference?

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
smackeddog
Posts: 38386
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/30/2005
Member: #883
1/17/2019  12:23 PM
Unless Boston turns it on in the last part of the season, or has a deep playoff run, I think Kyrie will walk- seems to be a lot of bad blood in that locker room. Don't want him here however.
Nalod
Posts: 68601
Alba Posts: 154
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
1/17/2019  1:30 PM
If you watched that game vs. Toronto last night you might rethink it.
Dude can play!!!
smackeddog
Posts: 38386
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/30/2005
Member: #883
1/17/2019  1:35 PM
Nalod wrote:If you watched that game vs. Toronto last night you might rethink it.
Dude can play!!!

It's not his ability, it's his injury history coupled with his treatment of Boston's young players--if he's frustrated with Boston's Young guns and keeps calling them out and alienating them, how would it be any different with ours?
Nalod
Posts: 68601
Alba Posts: 154
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
1/17/2019  2:10 PM
smackeddog wrote:
Nalod wrote:If you watched that game vs. Toronto last night you might rethink it.
Dude can play!!!

It's not his ability, it's his injury history coupled with his treatment of Boston's young players--if he's frustrated with Boston's Young guns and keeps calling them out and alienating them, how would it be any different with ours?

That's a good point. At the same time you have the young guns vs the old guys that have their money.
Rozier wants his and Jaylen Brown needs his minutes. Got Haywood who got his and is tight with his coach but is rusty. Gordo has been a champ coming off the bench. I can see where the young guns are like "Kyrie and Gordon out last year and we too it to Lebron without you!!"
I don't see much of like what Butler was doing in Minny. Hoford is also a free agent I believe. So is Kyrie. ITs a weird dynamic for sure. They do look prime for a trade but the davis thing can't happen until july cap wise for them.

Celtic ball movement was beautiful thing to watch.
knicks1248
Posts: 42059
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
1/17/2019  2:32 PM
smackeddog wrote:
Nalod wrote:If you watched that game vs. Toronto last night you might rethink it.
Dude can play!!!

It's not his ability, it's his injury history coupled with his treatment of Boston's young players--if he's frustrated with Boston's Young guns and keeps calling them out and alienating them, how would it be any different with ours?

This is why Mills changed his tune about 2019 FA..

You cant bring star vets and think a rebuild is going to work with young players.

There's no way in hell you can go to KD (or any all star) and say give us few yrs for knox, trier, frank, mitch, and dotson to develop..


ES
Nalod
Posts: 68601
Alba Posts: 154
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
1/17/2019  3:03 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
Nalod wrote:If you watched that game vs. Toronto last night you might rethink it.
Dude can play!!!

It's not his ability, it's his injury history coupled with his treatment of Boston's young players--if he's frustrated with Boston's Young guns and keeps calling them out and alienating them, how would it be any different with ours?

This is why Mills changed his tune about 2019 FA..

You cant bring star vets and think a rebuild is going to work with young players.

There's no way in hell you can go to KD (or any all star) and say give us few yrs for knox, trier, frank, mitch, and dotson to develop..


You must go broke watching infomercials.
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
1/19/2019  6:01 PM
Embiid needs to get called on all his dirty plays. Guy always takes the extra shot trying to hurt his opponent.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Nalod
Posts: 68601
Alba Posts: 154
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
1/22/2019  10:00 AM
Credit to Nuggets FO after Masai left to manage Toronto. The ownership stuck to a plan and continued with it.
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
1/22/2019  8:58 PM
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Page 16 of 29 « First‹ Previous 14  15  16  17  18 Next ›Last »
« Reply To Topic
OT-NBA Season Thread-Around the NBA HORN
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy