NardDogNation wrote:

wargames wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

VCoug wrote:

arkrud wrote:Knicks management confirmed once again that they are committed for multiyear rebuild.
It is also clear that they are not bunking on getting any of max contract FAs in 2019.
Finally we have some sanity, plan, and attempt to build winning culture and respected organization.
Very refreshing.

That's not true at all. If it were, we wouldn't have stretched him and just let him expire after next season. The only reason to stretch him and hurt our cap space in 2020 and 2021 is to try and sign big money FA in 2019.

...except we have no real idea if a big money FA is even interested in us in 2019; and even if they intimated they were, a lot can change in 12 freaking months. Thankfully, we've encumbered our cap flexibility in 2020 and 2021, in the off-chance that an elite talent would be interested in us at that point. #KnickLogic

Makes you wonder why we root for this team, right?

I think they might go for Kemba. But they also could go for young guys that project to be good like an Oubre or RHJ

I believe Oubre will be available, but he doesn't fit the roster. I'm a big RHJ fan, but he doesn't really fit either, if Robinson or Knox develop according to plan. Winslow just an envelope extension with the heat for $13 million per. I'd think RHJ and Kelly would at least get that. And Kemba...I'd rather put feelers out on Butler if that's our only option. Don't get me wrong, I think Kemba is good. But he presents some of the issues as Burke with his size and lack of positional versatility.

...which is exactly why I'd prefer a Terry Rozier (at a quasi-max) to a Kemba-max. At least Rozier is young enough to justify the investment and is not handicapped at either guard spot defensively. Outside of Rozier (provided he impresses again this season), I can't justify paying anyone this offseason given our predicament.

Rozier is another good. The Celtics probably won't be able to keep him.

Which is exactly why I like the idea of pursuing him. With our cap space, we have the opportunity to do a number of things to dissuade the Celtics from matching, while also protecting our long-term (financial) health. Maybe our biggest advantage is our ability to frontload his contract, which would also give us some flexibility on the tail end of the deal if he under-performs. But I'm fairly high on Rozier and think he can be something of a Victor Oladipo for us next to Frank.

I still think Rozier and Randle would be the best get the Knicks could pull. Spend 17 Mil on each and the team is set with a Young PG and an Inside post threat who can guard the perimeter as KP Rim protects. Add one of those high pick Wings and the Knicks can come away with a secondary perimeter scorer as well.

I felt similarly about Randle but he's gotten a lot of negative pub that now has me thinking that I missed something about him. Tim McMann recently suggested that he's best suited as a bench player and I've heard multiple people criticize his defense. Considering that he is also a poor floor spacer, I wonder if he's worth a major investment since the combination of those qualities tend to be prohibitive. And what position do you consider Knox? Because if Knox is a 4, Randle becomes kind of redundant.

I think he fits exactly what the Knicks need as an inside scoring post/rebound presence while having the ability to play defense on the perimeter against small ball 4's. I also think the Knicks are heading for a rebounding problem once Enes leaves because he is the main rebounder on the team, and expecting Mitch or Knox to replace that as part of the front court next year is premature at best. Randle is a strong, good-rebounding big man. He can play inside like Kanter. His post moves are not as good but Randle is a better passer, and better defender. He's a big who would do a great job of banging down low, allowing KP to avoid that as it is not his strong suit. The big-to-big passing connection between the two players should create easy opportunities for them both, and the attention defenses pay to KP will allow Randle to operate as a secondary frontcourt scoring option, leaving him to work against weaker defenders.

Also, KP (and other shooters) could space the floor horizontally, while Randle does so vertically. The gravity KP has as a shooter should allow Randle to operate in the middle of the floor free of congestion, which should provide him with the clean driving lanes he needs to do his best work. Randle’s downhill style sucks the defense into the paint, leaving KP free to bomb away from outside or blow past closing defenders who have had to change directions multiple times in quick succession.

The Lakers, in general, were bad on Defense. Defensively playing next to KP means Randle can go out on the perimeter. Randle could switch to cut off driving lanes rather than hanging back near the paint and failing to make much of an impact on an opponent’s shot attempt due to his short arms. I am not going to post the video but here is a link of him defending John Wall at the perimeter

NardDogNation wrote:

wargames wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

VCoug wrote:

arkrud wrote:Knicks management confirmed once again that they are committed for multiyear rebuild.
It is also clear that they are not bunking on getting any of max contract FAs in 2019.
Finally we have some sanity, plan, and attempt to build winning culture and respected organization.
Very refreshing.

That's not true at all. If it were, we wouldn't have stretched him and just let him expire after next season. The only reason to stretch him and hurt our cap space in 2020 and 2021 is to try and sign big money FA in 2019.

...except we have no real idea if a big money FA is even interested in us in 2019; and even if they intimated they were, a lot can change in 12 freaking months. Thankfully, we've encumbered our cap flexibility in 2020 and 2021, in the off-chance that an elite talent would be interested in us at that point. #KnickLogic

Makes you wonder why we root for this team, right?

I think the problem is if they don't spend that money now after they Max KP it would be another 2 seasons before they have anywhere that much cap available again when Timmy comes off. That too won't be a max money either and by that point they'll need to start paying the youth on the roster like Frank and Knox.

In a lot of ways they need to build the core this offseason either with KD or maybe with some either high level players, because after this year they will be stuck.

If we do get Kevin Durant, what can we really offer him as a supporting cast?

We're a team of neophytes. I view adding a Kevin Durant as problematic in this type of situation because it shifts the focus away from developing our players toward marginalizing them as role players to accommodate a Kevin Durant. And how long will a Kevin Durant be with us for anyway? How long will a Kevin Durant remain Kevin Durant to justify shortchanging our future like that? I don't think we're ready for a guy like him and I don't think he'd radically change the fortunes of our franchise enough to justify the cost of him being here.

And please don't forget that he is a 7-footer that relies heavily on his agility, who has had a number of leg injuries including a Jones fracture fairly recently. Men of his ilk don't have a very long career arcs, and he'll be 30 years old in year 1 of a max deal with us. If we're not ready to win immediately and win big when we sign him, it'd be a waste of a signing IMO. I'd stay away from him until we figured out what we had with this team....or if a Giannis and/or AD became available that we could flip the young kids for.

Rebuild is not 1 year project.
This team can be good not earlier that 2021.
So all this KD talk is to keep more fans engaged while process is processing.
The Noah stretch is absolutely irrelevant for Knick as well as he himself was.
We need to concentrate on another high draft pick this season and picking up young talent in FA.
Better a couple less expensive players with upside.
The rest is just playing "Real GM" game.

NardDogNation wrote:

VCoug wrote:

arkrud wrote:Knicks management confirmed once again that they are committed for multiyear rebuild.
It is also clear that they are not bunking on getting any of max contract FAs in 2019.
Finally we have some sanity, plan, and attempt to build winning culture and respected organization.
Very refreshing.

That's not true at all. If it were, we wouldn't have stretched him and just let him expire after next season. The only reason to stretch him and hurt our cap space in 2020 and 2021 is to try and sign big money FA in 2019.

...except we have no real idea if a big money FA is even interested in us in 2019; and even if they intimated they were, a lot can change in 12 freaking months. Thankfully, we've encumbered our cap flexibility in 2020 and 2021, in the off-chance that an elite talent would be interested in us at that point. #KnickLogic

Makes you wonder why we root for this team, right?

newyorknewyork wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:I keep seeing posters critical of the FO for stretching Noah but I'm not sure they had any other choice. Keeping him home for the whole season is not a viable option. The players union is not going to allow the Knicks to just keep him home without just cause. So the options are allow a player who doesn't want to be here and who we have no intention of playing sit on the bench in a suit for the entire season, stretch him, or give up an unprotected draft pick to trade him. The NY media would be salivating for the chance to question Noah after every loss. Knowing full well when the losing happens he will say something that they can blow out of proportion and cause rifts in the locker room. NY Knick reporters are the biggest *******s on earth. Building up players, coaches, and GM's up to destroy them is their favorite thing to do. Going for stars or not I don't see another option.

You're missing an option, waive him and eat his contract so that it doesn't impact our cap space in 2020 and 2021. Also, did the media go to Noah after every loss last year?

I don't believe they are going to throw money at any FA just to save face. Knicks will probably be adding another lottery pick in the next draft and will be getting KP back. They don't need to make a huge splash in FA to satisfy anyone really. As season ticket holders will be sold on the new lotto pick, the return of KP, and the development of Frank, Knox, Mitchell. Stretching Noah puts them in the game though just in case.

Literally, the only reason to stretch him instead of just waiving him is because they want to throw a bunch of money at a FA next Summer.

Did he curse out the FO? I don't recall seeing that. Maybe he did.

If we wanted him gone because he is a bum and Phil should have never signed him, OK.

CrushAlot wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

VCoug wrote:

arkrud wrote:Knicks management confirmed once again that they are committed for multiyear rebuild.
It is also clear that they are not bunking on getting any of max contract FAs in 2019.
Finally we have some sanity, plan, and attempt to build winning culture and respected organization.
Very refreshing.

That's not true at all. If it were, we wouldn't have stretched him and just let him expire after next season. The only reason to stretch him and hurt our cap space in 2020 and 2021 is to try and sign big money FA in 2019.

...except we have no real idea if a big money FA is even interested in us in 2019; and even if they intimated they were, a lot can change in 12 freaking months. Thankfully, we've encumbered our cap flexibility in 2020 and 2021, in the off-chance that an elite talent would be interested in us at that point. #KnickLogic

Makes you wonder why we root for this team, right?

I think they might go for Kemba. But they also could go for young guys that project to be good like an Oubre or RHJ

I believe Oubre will be available, but he doesn't fit the roster. I'm a big RHJ fan, but he doesn't really fit either, if Robinson or Knox develop according to plan. Winslow just an envelope extension with the heat for $13 million per. I'd think RHJ and Kelly would at least get that. And Kemba...I'd rather put feelers out on Butler if that's our only option. Don't get me wrong, I think Kemba is good. But he presents some of the issues as Burke with his size and lack of positional versatility.

...which is exactly why I'd prefer a Terry Rozier (at a quasi-max) to a Kemba-max. At least Rozier is young enough to justify the investment and is not handicapped at either guard spot defensively. Outside of Rozier (provided he impresses again this season), I can't justify paying anyone this offseason given our predicament.

Rozier is another good. The Celtics probably won't be able to keep him.

knicks1248 wrote:

franco12 wrote:how is it we had to release Noah? He had an issue with Jeff Hornacek. He's gone.

Did he curse out the FO? I don't recall seeing that. Maybe he did.

If we wanted him gone because he is a bum and Phil should have never signed him, OK.

I think it had more to do with his timeline, playing time, the system, and the fact that the team is going in a different direction.

With that being said,why should he give back money to a team that wants to get rid of you, especially when he knows they will fold because the knicks need the roster spot, and we are paper thin as far as bigs.

But again - I get all of that, but none of that supports why we had to get rid of him. The only reason I can think of why we had to release him was he insulted Mills, Perry or Dolan.

The roster spot has marginal value- we could get rid of Ron Baker or Mudiay or any of the other NBDL guys we got.

I mean if you tell me he would be a horrible presence to a developing team - ok, I get that- but I don't know that I have seen any proof of it.

I just feel like we messed up. I mean, could we not have stretched him at the end of the year ahead of free agency.

I approve our FO being decisive and having a vision. I hated the Noah signing the day it was made- along with those other moves Phil made- they were some of the worse moves made ever.

franco12 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

franco12 wrote:how is it we had to release Noah? He had an issue with Jeff Hornacek. He's gone.

Did he curse out the FO? I don't recall seeing that. Maybe he did.

If we wanted him gone because he is a bum and Phil should have never signed him, OK.

I think it had more to do with his timeline, playing time, the system, and the fact that the team is going in a different direction.

With that being said,why should he give back money to a team that wants to get rid of you, especially when he knows they will fold because the knicks need the roster spot, and we are paper thin as far as bigs.

But again - I get all of that, but none of that supports why we had to get rid of him. The only reason I can think of why we had to release him was he insulted Mills, Perry or Dolan.

The roster spot has marginal value- we could get rid of Ron Baker or Mudiay or any of the other NBDL guys we got.

I mean if you tell me he would be a horrible presence to a developing team - ok, I get that- but I don't know that I have seen any proof of it.

I just feel like we messed up. I mean, could we not have stretched him at the end of the year ahead of free agency.

I approve our FO being decisive and having a vision. I hated the Noah signing the day it was made- along with those other moves Phil made- they were some of the worse moves made ever.

I agree with you 100%, The entire Noah thing was handle just as bad as The melo and willy trades

newyorknewyork wrote:

VCoug wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:I keep seeing posters critical of the FO for stretching Noah but I'm not sure they had any other choice. Keeping him home for the whole season is not a viable option. The players union is not going to allow the Knicks to just keep him home without just cause. So the options are allow a player who doesn't want to be here and who we have no intention of playing sit on the bench in a suit for the entire season, stretch him, or give up an unprotected draft pick to trade him. The NY media would be salivating for the chance to question Noah after every loss. Knowing full well when the losing happens he will say something that they can blow out of proportion and cause rifts in the locker room. NY Knick reporters are the biggest *******s on earth. Building up players, coaches, and GM's up to destroy them is their favorite thing to do. Going for stars or not I don't see another option.

You're missing an option, waive him and eat his contract so that it doesn't impact our cap space in 2020 and 2021. Also, did the media go to Noah after every loss last year?

I don't believe they are going to throw money at any FA just to save face. Knicks will probably be adding another lottery pick in the next draft and will be getting KP back. They don't need to make a huge splash in FA to satisfy anyone really. As season ticket holders will be sold on the new lotto pick, the return of KP, and the development of Frank, Knox, Mitchell. Stretching Noah puts them in the game though just in case.

Literally, the only reason to stretch him instead of just waiving him is because they want to throw a bunch of money at a FA next Summer.

They want to be in play for Kwahi, Kyrie, Klay, Davis, Butler, Durant yada yada yada. Which all teams who have the opportunity to do should and will be doing. Doesn't mean that they will pull a 2010 and sign a player with 80 yr oldan knees who can't get insurance on his contract for 100mil. They will either get a Star. Or they will look for bargains.

No kidding. The problem is we didn't need to waive Noah today to be in play. We could have waited until next Summer when/if one of those FAs agreed to sign with us and then waived him.