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Frank haters can suck it
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meloshouldgo
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10/4/2018  11:53 AM
fishmike wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Welcome back. 9pts, lets not get carried away here. Frank has been too passive. His veteran teammates said it on the record last season. His former and current coach said it as well. Pretty much everyone said it. It was the truth, not hating.

Frank understood it, said it repeatedly, which is why he wisely passed on FIBA to stay in NY to work on his game. Wasnt a secret. Nobody knew if Frank would come back with more game. So far so good, but he still has a way to go to start IMO. One step at a time.

So what you are saying a 19 year old rookie listened to vets/coaches and came back a year later having improved in those areas (and pretty much all the other ones).

I agree

What's is not said is what any of the other guards did to improve glaring holes in their games, during the offseason? Because Frank isn't competing for the job against Chris Paul, he is competing against Burke and Mudiay. See how this can be a double standard?

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
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StarksEwing1
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10/4/2018  11:56 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:My biggest problem with him is he doesn't run when he gets the ball...like ever, I mean you look at Knox after a rebound, he's coast to coast, not waiting for the d to set up. Knox (a sf/pf) has had more fast breaks in 2 preseason games that frank has had in a yr.

I sat right behind the Knicks bench at the wizard game and you would not believe how many time the coaching staff told him to pick up the pace, just go and stop thinking. He's a half court player and there's no changing that.

I think they need to play him a SF, he's long enough, probably not strong enough yet but I don't seem as NBA pg by any stretch, and he need to avg 12 to 15 attempts per game to play the 2g.

Not really true. Obviously we know you are not a fan of his, you have made that clear BUT you gotta admit when he is on the court good things happen. Also now his offense is Coming along nicely and will continue

I thought Frank did a good job pushing the ball last night. We'll see one good night, one bad night in the first half. Hopefully he'll get more consistent as the season goes on. But just like I won't say
Burke turned the corner after < than half a NBA season, I won't start pigeonholing Frank after a couple of NBA preseason games. I will say that I believe that Frank just needs confidence. I have no comment to make on Mudiay.
i got to be honest burke hasnt blown me away. His third quarter was very good last night and he made one good defensive play but overall i have like frank better. Not just the fact that he is more aggressive offensively but his defense just by himself makes such a huge difference. And he can make nice passes inside like he did to Kanter last night
Ira
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10/4/2018  12:10 PM
Right now, Frank is our best point guard. He's a good defender, he finds open players and is decent offensively. He probably will never be Walt Frazier, but should at least be Mo Cheeks.
StarksEwing1
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10/4/2018  12:14 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/4/2018  12:15 PM
Ira wrote:Right now, Frank is our best point guard. He's a good defender, he finds open players and is decent offensively. He probably will never be Walt Frazier, but should at least be Mo Cheeks.
Yeah we dont expect him to be a 20 point scorer BUT he doesnt need to be. However i do think he is starting to show he will drive to the basket much more and not afraid to take a big 3. His defense will always be his main weapon and that is perfectly fine. You need two way players.
BigDaddyG
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10/4/2018  12:14 PM
Ira wrote:Right now, Frank is our best point guard. He's a good defender, he finds open players and is decent offensively. He probably will never be Walt Frazier, but should at least be Mo Cheeks.

You know...Mo Cheeks is a Hall of Famer too lol

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
WaltLongmire
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10/4/2018  12:46 PM
Folks have been down on the French since the "freedom fries" era, when France stayed out of the Iraq war. Now some are upset because so many Americans would rather have a President Macron than the orange guy now in office.

Frank, a Frenchman, is caught up in a political soap opera that has spilled into sports. We don't want the considerate, thoughtful, and teamwork oriented PG...we want him selfish and arrogant, me-first PG.

I just hope he doesn't take a knee during the anthem.


On a serious note...Frank will be fine. His D is already superior, and his offensive issues seem to be coming around, and are more mental than they are a deficiency in skill, anyway.

He's reached a point where he can guard the 1-4 slots, which makes him as versatile a defender as there is in the league, and he a bit more than 2 months past his 20th birthday.

We've seen more aggressiveness and craft in his offensive game so far...he needs to have a few go-to moves he can count on. I actually believe, though, if Fizdale was to tell him he's getting 35MPG and the "team was his," you would see a different player. He is still too deferential at this point.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
TripleThreat
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10/4/2018  12:50 PM
fishmike wrote:Dude is gonna have a break out year. He looks closer to everything we hoped for when he was drafted.


Maybe.

But all he needs is a league average three point shot to be extremely valuable. Everyone hopes he can get more than that, but at minimum, with hard work and time, that's all he needs to carve out a long term role.

He's a legit future DPOY candidate. Considering he's a wing and not a pivot, that's saying a ton about his defense.

People want to punish him for not being Donovan Mitchell. People are looking at Frank N's ceiling more than his floor. His floor is very useful and very marketable.

At least he tries and puts in full effort. As totally ****ed as that sounds, after seeing STAT, Melo and Bargs and Noah and Rose just plain ****ing dog it all the time, its nice to see actual effort.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
StarksEwing1
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10/4/2018  12:52 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:Folks have been down on the French since the "freedom fries" era, when France stayed out of the Iraq war. Now some are upset because so many Americans would rather have a President Macron than the orange guy now in office.

Frank, a Frenchman, is caught up in a political soap opera that has spilled into sports. We don't want the considerate, thoughtful, and teamwork oriented PG...we want him selfish and arrogant, me-first PG.

I just hope he doesn't take a knee during the anthem.


On a serious note...Frank will be fine. His D is already superior, and his offensive issues seem to be coming around, and are more mental than they are a deficiency in skill, anyway.

He's reached a point where he can guard the 1-4 slots, which makes him as versatile a defender as there is in the league, and he a bit more than 2 months past his 20th birthday.

We've seen more aggressiveness and craft in his offensive game so far...he needs to have a few go-to moves he can count on. I actually believe, though, if Fizdale was to tell him he's getting 35MPG and the "team was his," you would see a different player. He is still too deferential at this point.

Im happy to see many come around in regards to Frank. I think we all knew what he needed to work but at the same time he got a bit too much criticism for a 19 ,year old kid. Its exciting to see Frank Knox Mitchell and eventually KP form such a young core.
WaltLongmire
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10/4/2018  1:02 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:Folks have been down on the French since the "freedom fries" era, when France stayed out of the Iraq war. Now some are upset because so many Americans would rather have a President Macron than the orange guy now in office.

Frank, a Frenchman, is caught up in a political soap opera that has spilled into sports. We don't want the considerate, thoughtful, and teamwork oriented PG...we want him selfish and arrogant, me-first PG.

I just hope he doesn't take a knee during the anthem.


On a serious note...Frank will be fine. His D is already superior, and his offensive issues seem to be coming around, and are more mental than they are a deficiency in skill, anyway.

He's reached a point where he can guard the 1-4 slots, which makes him as versatile a defender as there is in the league, and he a bit more than 2 months past his 20th birthday.

We've seen more aggressiveness and craft in his offensive game so far...he needs to have a few go-to moves he can count on. I actually believe, though, if Fizdale was to tell him he's getting 35MPG and the "team was his," you would see a different player. He is still too deferential at this point.

Im happy to see many come around in regards to Frank. I think we all knew what he needed to work but at the same time he got a bit too much criticism for a 19 ,year old kid. Its exciting to see Frank Knox Mitchell and eventually KP form such a young core.

Getting to the point where we might have to put Trier in this group of promising young Knicks' players.
EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
StarksEwing1
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10/4/2018  1:12 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:Folks have been down on the French since the "freedom fries" era, when France stayed out of the Iraq war. Now some are upset because so many Americans would rather have a President Macron than the orange guy now in office.

Frank, a Frenchman, is caught up in a political soap opera that has spilled into sports. We don't want the considerate, thoughtful, and teamwork oriented PG...we want him selfish and arrogant, me-first PG.

I just hope he doesn't take a knee during the anthem.


On a serious note...Frank will be fine. His D is already superior, and his offensive issues seem to be coming around, and are more mental than they are a deficiency in skill, anyway.

He's reached a point where he can guard the 1-4 slots, which makes him as versatile a defender as there is in the league, and he a bit more than 2 months past his 20th birthday.

We've seen more aggressiveness and craft in his offensive game so far...he needs to have a few go-to moves he can count on. I actually believe, though, if Fizdale was to tell him he's getting 35MPG and the "team was his," you would see a different player. He is still too deferential at this point.

Im happy to see many come around in regards to Frank. I think we all knew what he needed to work but at the same time he got a bit too much criticism for a 19 ,year old kid. Its exciting to see Frank Knox Mitchell and eventually KP form such a young core.

Getting to the point where we might have to put Trier in this group of promising young Knicks' players.
Yeah he looks real good. My only issue with Trier is when his offense is not working what does he offer? We know the other 4 can rebound,defend,etc but Trier needs to show other things too
TheGame
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10/4/2018  1:13 PM
IMO Frank should start because his defense will help a lot to stop other teams PNR plays. Burke is better suited as a 6th man and Mudiay is just garbage. I think the Knicks are hurting Frank by not letting him be a full time pg. He has to learn the balance of getting his own shot and running the team and he can't do that playing 2 guard. Let Frank start, give him 32 mins a game and reap the rewards by the end of the season.
Playoffs or bust
StarksEwing1
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10/4/2018  1:15 PM
TheGame wrote:IMO Frank should start because his defense will help a lot to stop other teams PNR plays. Burke is better suited as a 6th man and Mudiay is just garbage. I think the Knicks are hurting Frank by not letting him be a full time pg. He has to learn the balance of getting his own shot and running the team and he can't do that playing 2 guard. Let Frank start, give him 32 mins a game and reap the rewards by the end of the season.
agreed. Plus i really dont see a future for burke unless we strike out in free agency
newyorknewyork
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10/4/2018  1:43 PM
Kid lives and breaths basketball, and has elite measurables. I look forward to what molds into over the years. You know he will continue to work tirelessly on his craft and continue to improve his handle add moves and layers to his game. He has the length to finish through contact as we have seen flashes. Just keep developing his body and maturing. Which again we have no doubt he will do.

Frank is just a weapon for Fizz to mold. Guarding multiple positions, lining up at multiple positions. Can defend, shoot, pass, put the ball on the floor. There is no box to put him in. He probably never becomes an elite scorer. But his stat line accross the board will start to fill with stls, blks, ast, rebs, 3s with impact sequences.

WaltLongmire
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10/4/2018  1:49 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
TheGame wrote:IMO Frank should start because his defense will help a lot to stop other teams PNR plays. Burke is better suited as a 6th man and Mudiay is just garbage. I think the Knicks are hurting Frank by not letting him be a full time pg. He has to learn the balance of getting his own shot and running the team and he can't do that playing 2 guard. Let Frank start, give him 32 mins a game and reap the rewards by the end of the season.
agreed. Plus i really dont see a future for burke unless we strike out in free agency

Burke is a smaller version of Trier, in many ways. Plays with an attitude, also. His size is an issue, but he can be another spark plug, and his D...at least staying in front of opponents, has gotten better.

His problem is getting posted up and being picked off too easily, and he can't really switch off as a defender because of his size.

Except for Burke, all of guards are between 6'4" and 6'6." Not sure Burke is in the "positionless" category, at least in terms of D.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
meloshouldgo
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10/4/2018  3:27 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
TheGame wrote:IMO Frank should start because his defense will help a lot to stop other teams PNR plays. Burke is better suited as a 6th man and Mudiay is just garbage. I think the Knicks are hurting Frank by not letting him be a full time pg. He has to learn the balance of getting his own shot and running the team and he can't do that playing 2 guard. Let Frank start, give him 32 mins a game and reap the rewards by the end of the season.
agreed. Plus i really dont see a future for burke unless we strike out in free agency

Burke is a smaller version of Trier, in many ways. Plays with an attitude, also. His size is an issue, but he can be another spark plug, and his D...at least staying in front of opponents, has gotten better.

His problem is getting posted up and being picked off too easily, and he can't really switch off as a defender because of his size.

Except for Burke, all of guards are between 6'4" and 6'6." Not sure Burke is in the "positionless" category, at least in terms of D.

I think Burke is ok for now as a stop gap. Trier seems to be in the same mold, but his shot blocking gives him an interesting edge over Burke. I think he the better rebounder as well. Mudiay is wasted and THJR is another bench player.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
Nalod
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10/4/2018  3:48 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/4/2018  3:50 PM
Fiz has said there won't be just one PG. Guards are guards.
Clyde and earl were both PG's, both could pass, Shoot and run. That's what guards do.
Frank can do what he does. If Burke is on the court, and he is fed,, he does what he does.
Frank might play with two other guards. That's three, or what ever you want to call it. Just because he is playing "THE THREE" does not mean he plays different, he will do what he does.

Call frank what you want. He looks smooth on offense and that block was electrifying.

Hating on Frank or loving on Burke don't mean a thing. Its what happens on the court.
Its ok to be a fan of a knick!!!

Suck it knicks1248!!! Frank is progressing. Might not be as fast as you want, but suck it, you don't set the bar.

Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
StarksEwing1
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10/4/2018  3:58 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/4/2018  3:59 PM
Nalod wrote:Fiz has said there won't be just one PG. Guards are guards.
Clyde and earl were both PG's, both could pass, Shoot and run. That's what guards do.
Frank can do what he does. If Burke is on the court, and he is fed,, he does what he does.
Frank might play with two other guards. That's three, or what ever you want to call it. Just because he is playing "THE THREE" does not mean he plays different, he will do what he does.

Call frank what you want. He looks smooth on offense and that block was electrifying.

Hating on Frank or loving on Burke don't mean a thing. Its what happens on the court.
Its ok to be a fan of a knick!!!

Suck it knicks1248!!! Frank is progressing. Might not be as fast as you want, but suck it, you don't set the bar.

Good Post. Fizdale loves the team because a lot of these guys can play multiple positions and frank certainly can. But the most important thing is getting those important minutes and making the team better in many ways which Frank can. As for Burke i like the kid. Im happy he came back from the G League. I just dont see him a longterm knick like i see frank mostly because frank has a better chance of being a two way player. As for knicks 1248 he is allowed to like who he likes but he has never said one thing positive about Frank
Nalod
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10/4/2018  4:18 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
Nalod wrote:Fiz has said there won't be just one PG. Guards are guards.
Clyde and earl were both PG's, both could pass, Shoot and run. That's what guards do.
Frank can do what he does. If Burke is on the court, and he is fed,, he does what he does.
Frank might play with two other guards. That's three, or what ever you want to call it. Just because he is playing "THE THREE" does not mean he plays different, he will do what he does.

Call frank what you want. He looks smooth on offense and that block was electrifying.

Hating on Frank or loving on Burke don't mean a thing. Its what happens on the court.
Its ok to be a fan of a knick!!!

Suck it knicks1248!!! Frank is progressing. Might not be as fast as you want, but suck it, you don't set the bar.

Good Post. Fizdale loves the team because a lot of these guys can play multiple positions and frank certainly can. But the most important thing is getting those important minutes and making the team better in many ways which Frank can. As for Burke i like the kid. Im happy he came back from the G League. I just dont see him a longterm knick like i see frank mostly because frank has a better chance of being a two way player. As for knicks 1248 he is allowed to like who he likes but he has never said one thing positive about Frank

Nobody dislikes Burke. Im rooting like hell for him as much as anyone. I'd love for all these guys to hit their potential as they were drafted!!!!
And just because a guy is not "That" today, don't mean he can't going forward. Personally Knicks1248 proclaimations of what a player can or won't be is annoying. No doubt the older a player is the window closes. Frank and Knox are the same age. They both have nice upsides. Mudiay is 23 and his window is getting smaller. Burke is 26? This is his contract year. I wish him well.

Funny, I think Timmy will have the best season of all!

Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
Ira
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10/4/2018  4:25 PM
The team is better when Frank is in the game. Granted he doesn't break down the defense enough, but he's learning - and his defense gives the team a big boost.
StarksEwing1
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10/4/2018  4:29 PM
Ira wrote:The team is better when Frank is in the game. Granted he doesn't break down the defense enough, but he's learning - and his defense gives the team a big boost.
Agreed. Even last season when he was on the court you felt better because of his defense. I dont care that he doesnt run 100 mph every time down the court, that doesnt mean he cant push the pace like someone claimed.
Frank haters can suck it

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