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GustavBahler
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9/30/2018  9:07 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Used to be such a huge fan. Hasnt been a stand up guy for a few seasons now.

Got into beefs with his last 2 coaches, took the money, took the peds, and tried to take the crown from Marbury for the worst coming home ever. Good riddance.

Agreed. I hated the deal from Day 1 BUT he used to be a player that actually gave a damn about playing hard

A guy who gave a damn about playing hard, becomes a money grabbing drug addict upon becoming a Knick? And I get that it's all we can do to dump on him, but do you think the Knicks have any accountability in this?

Nope. Took the money, showed up out of shape, got hurt, took PEDs. Acted like he was still entitled to minutes.

Noah was grousing about PT with the Bulls. They knew what they were doing when they benched him. So did the Knicks.

The only thing I put on the Knicks is Phil giving him that huge contract when it was clear that Noah was over the hill.

AUTOADVERT
Nalod
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9/30/2018  10:52 AM
Doe anyone know the cause of the impass?
Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
GustavBahler
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9/30/2018  11:00 AM
Nalod wrote:Doe anyone know the cause of the impass?

$$$$$$$

Looks like they want Noah to lower the price of his exit. Perry/Mills using Noah's desire to latch on to a team as leverage. Noah is missing training camp, preseason.

At Noah's age (and health) its going to take a few months for him to get up to speed. This impasse pushes that timeline into next year.

Im all for the Knicks playing hardball, in this situation.

StarksEwing1
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9/30/2018  11:06 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
Nalod wrote:Doe anyone know the cause of the impass?

$$$$$$$

Looks like they want Noah to lower the price of his exit. Perry/Mills using Noah's desire to latch on to a team as leverage. Noah is missing training camp, preseason.

At Noah's age (and health) its going to take a few months for him to get up to speed. This impasse pushes that timeline into next year.

Im all for the Knicks playing hardball, in this situation.

Agreed. Look im not naive. I understand giving back some money is foolish for any person to do BUT if Noah has self respect and honest about his tenure here as player he would know he doesnt deserve every penny by a long shot. He still makes out great here. If i was him id give at least some money back and move on
Nalod
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9/30/2018  1:26 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
Nalod wrote:Doe anyone know the cause of the impass?

$$$$$$$

Looks like they want Noah to lower the price of his exit. Perry/Mills using Noah's desire to latch on to a team as leverage. Noah is missing training camp, preseason.

At Noah's age (and health) its going to take a few months for him to get up to speed. This impasse pushes that timeline into next year.

Im all for the Knicks playing hardball, in this situation.

You know his physical condition? If he is ready to play then he needs to find a camp to get in and get going. Price of freedom might be more than the 2.5$mil.
I know some want a pound of flesh and for him to pay. Personally I just want cap space and if knicks have the leverage then I’d lean hard on him.
No need to justify beyond that. Knicks gave him a contact and its for them to honor it. If He wants out there is a price. Him being lazy or the ignorance knicks demonstrated signing him is not relevant.

Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
GustavBahler
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9/30/2018  5:50 PM
Nalod wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Nalod wrote:Doe anyone know the cause of the impass?

$$$$$$$

Looks like they want Noah to lower the price of his exit. Perry/Mills using Noah's desire to latch on to a team as leverage. Noah is missing training camp, preseason.

At Noah's age (and health) its going to take a few months for him to get up to speed. This impasse pushes that timeline into next year.

Im all for the Knicks playing hardball, in this situation.

You know his physical condition? If he is ready to play then he needs to find a camp to get in and get going. Price of freedom might be more than the 2.5$mil.
I know some want a pound of flesh and for him to pay. Personally I just want cap space and if knicks have the leverage then I’d lean hard on him.
No need to justify beyond that. Knicks gave him a contact and its for them to honor it. If He wants out there is a price. Him being lazy or the ignorance knicks demonstrated signing him is not relevant.

Know his body has a lot of miles on the odometer. And this is true of most vets Noah's age. Takes some time to get up to speed.

Agree that its about the cap hit, not a pound of flesh. Dont care about saving MSG money beyond that.

Welpee
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9/30/2018  7:15 PM
nykshaknbake wrote:
Welpee wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:
TheGame wrote:Knicks want him to give back more money and he is not having it. The issue though is the players' union is probably not going to let the Knicks just keep him away from the team. If he is not hurt and has done nothing wrong, then the players' union is going to make an issue of it. This should get resolved soon.

There should be no problem in letting him mix it up with the Westchester Knicks. If he won't give up money we are under no obligation to release him. Ideally I don't want to be paying any of his salary to the cap in the future when we will have KP still in his prime and Knox and Frank with a few years under their belt and we are looking for a piece or 2 to put us in playoff contention at least.

I don't want him bringing negative energy to Westchester while we're trying to develop young players. Now, I assume we're under no obligation to activate him to play if he's on the roster.

Unless the player's union gets involved he has a choice: 1) get all his money and sit; or 2) work with the Knicks and leave some money on the table to get freed up to play and make up the money with his new team (Minnesota).

Well if we keep him around and never play him, I'm sure he'll blow up again and we could then justifiably keep him away from the team or suspend him. When the chips are down he seems like a real jackass.

I doubt playing in the G-league pacifies him into being a good soldier. Besides, wouldn't he have to agree to go to the G-league? I don't think the Knicks can force him to go. If he's going to blow up, it's gonna happen either way, not playing or going to the G-league.
Welpee
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9/30/2018  7:22 PM
Nalod wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Nalod wrote:Doe anyone know the cause of the impass?

$$$$$$$

Looks like they want Noah to lower the price of his exit. Perry/Mills using Noah's desire to latch on to a team as leverage. Noah is missing training camp, preseason.

At Noah's age (and health) its going to take a few months for him to get up to speed. This impasse pushes that timeline into next year.

Im all for the Knicks playing hardball, in this situation.

You know his physical condition? If he is ready to play then he needs to find a camp to get in and get going. Price of freedom might be more than the 2.5$mil.
I know some want a pound of flesh and for him to pay. Personally I just want cap space and if knicks have the leverage then I’d lean hard on him.
No need to justify beyond that. Knicks gave him a contact and its for them to honor it. If He wants out there is a price. Him being lazy or the ignorance knicks demonstrated signing him is not relevant.

That's it. What is more important to him, playing or getting every dollar owed to him? Evidently, the money means more than playing. Every day he delays this it hurts his chances of landing on a team.
TripleThreat
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9/30/2018  7:54 PM
Nalod wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Nalod wrote:Doe anyone know the cause of the impass?

$$$$$$$

Looks like they want Noah to lower the price of his exit. Perry/Mills using Noah's desire to latch on to a team as leverage. Noah is missing training camp, preseason.

At Noah's age (and health) its going to take a few months for him to get up to speed. This impasse pushes that timeline into next year.

Im all for the Knicks playing hardball, in this situation.

You know his physical condition? If he is ready to play then he needs to find a camp to get in and get going. Price of freedom might be more than the 2.5$mil.
I know some want a pound of flesh and for him to pay. Personally I just want cap space and if knicks have the leverage then I’d lean hard on him.
No need to justify beyond that. Knicks gave him a contact and its for them to honor it. If He wants out there is a price. Him being lazy or the ignorance knicks demonstrated signing him is not relevant.


Any team that could functionally use Noah would be a playoff team and/or a quasi-contender. As such, those teams are generally cap locked. So they won't have more to give than the vets minimum.

Other considerations - A player on the vets minimum can be cut, paid out, and you can just sign another player at the vets minimum. Additionally, the league pays the salaries of the vet minimum players. The cap hit stays for the team, but the cash hit is ZERO. While I haven't seen it in the NBA, I have seen it in MLB. Sometimes the owner will say "Find the cash yourself" if you want to do something as the GM. ( Moneyball the film covers this a little but not quite...) In some extreme cases, the finding the cash means firing people. Not players. But rank and file regular joes who work for the franchise.

Erik Spolestra started out as a video assistant for Pat Riley. In a cash crunch, it could have easily turned out where Spolestra would have gotten purged with a bunch of other dudes and be selling insurance right now. Eric Mangini used to do the laundry when he started. He got lost trying to pick someone at the airport once under orders and Belichick almost fired him for that. If so, the landscape of several teams would have changed.

Knicks are waiting because it costs them nothing to wait. Also they aren't doing Noah any favors now. Had he been a good soldier for them, they'd try to accommodate him a little more. Knicks have NO LEVERAGE here. NONE. ZERO. They are waiting as it costs them nothing to wait.

He didn't respect that beloved Knicks jersey when he put it on. So **** him. Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.

Play the right way. It's that simple. If you don't, you are the enemy.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
GustavBahler
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9/30/2018  8:22 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
Nalod wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Nalod wrote:Doe anyone know the cause of the impass?

$$$$$$$

Looks like they want Noah to lower the price of his exit. Perry/Mills using Noah's desire to latch on to a team as leverage. Noah is missing training camp, preseason.

At Noah's age (and health) its going to take a few months for him to get up to speed. This impasse pushes that timeline into next year.

Im all for the Knicks playing hardball, in this situation.

You know his physical condition? If he is ready to play then he needs to find a camp to get in and get going. Price of freedom might be more than the 2.5$mil.
I know some want a pound of flesh and for him to pay. Personally I just want cap space and if knicks have the leverage then I’d lean hard on him.
No need to justify beyond that. Knicks gave him a contact and its for them to honor it. If He wants out there is a price. Him being lazy or the ignorance knicks demonstrated signing him is not relevant.


Any team that could functionally use Noah would be a playoff team and/or a quasi-contender. As such, those teams are generally cap locked. So they won't have more to give than the vets minimum.

Other considerations - A player on the vets minimum can be cut, paid out, and you can just sign another player at the vets minimum. Additionally, the league pays the salaries of the vet minimum players. The cap hit stays for the team, but the cash hit is ZERO. While I haven't seen it in the NBA, I have seen it in MLB. Sometimes the owner will say "Find the cash yourself" if you want to do something as the GM. ( Moneyball the film covers this a little but not quite...) In some extreme cases, the finding the cash means firing people. Not players. But rank and file regular joes who work for the franchise.

Erik Spolestra started out as a video assistant for Pat Riley. In a cash crunch, it could have easily turned out where Spolestra would have gotten purged with a bunch of other dudes and be selling insurance right now. Eric Mangini used to do the laundry when he started. He got lost trying to pick someone at the airport once under orders and Belichick almost fired him for that. If so, the landscape of several teams would have changed.

Knicks are waiting because it costs them nothing to wait. Also they aren't doing Noah any favors now. Had he been a good soldier for them, they'd try to accommodate him a little more. Knicks have NO LEVERAGE here. NONE. ZERO. They are waiting as it costs them nothing to wait.

He didn't respect that beloved Knicks jersey when he put it on. So **** him. Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.

Play the right way. It's that simple. If you don't, you are the enemy.

Noah is crying on Instagram that he's still a Knick. Of course they have leverage.

KnickDanger
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9/30/2018  8:25 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
Nalod wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Nalod wrote:Doe anyone know the cause of the impass?

$$$$$$$

Looks like they want Noah to lower the price of his exit. Perry/Mills using Noah's desire to latch on to a team as leverage. Noah is missing training camp, preseason.

At Noah's age (and health) its going to take a few months for him to get up to speed. This impasse pushes that timeline into next year.

Im all for the Knicks playing hardball, in this situation.

You know his physical condition? If he is ready to play then he needs to find a camp to get in and get going. Price of freedom might be more than the 2.5$mil.
I know some want a pound of flesh and for him to pay. Personally I just want cap space and if knicks have the leverage then I’d lean hard on him.
No need to justify beyond that. Knicks gave him a contact and its for them to honor it. If He wants out there is a price. Him being lazy or the ignorance knicks demonstrated signing him is not relevant.


Any team that could functionally use Noah would be a playoff team and/or a quasi-contender. As such, those teams are generally cap locked. So they won't have more to give than the vets minimum.

Other considerations - A player on the vets minimum can be cut, paid out, and you can just sign another player at the vets minimum. Additionally, the league pays the salaries of the vet minimum players. The cap hit stays for the team, but the cash hit is ZERO. While I haven't seen it in the NBA, I have seen it in MLB. Sometimes the owner will say "Find the cash yourself" if you want to do something as the GM. ( Moneyball the film covers this a little but not quite...) In some extreme cases, the finding the cash means firing people. Not players. But rank and file regular joes who work for the franchise.

Erik Spolestra started out as a video assistant for Pat Riley. In a cash crunch, it could have easily turned out where Spolestra would have gotten purged with a bunch of other dudes and be selling insurance right now. Eric Mangini used to do the laundry when he started. He got lost trying to pick someone at the airport once under orders and Belichick almost fired him for that. If so, the landscape of several teams would have changed.

Knicks are waiting because it costs them nothing to wait. Also they aren't doing Noah any favors now. Had he been a good soldier for them, they'd try to accommodate him a little more. Knicks have NO LEVERAGE here. NONE. ZERO. They are waiting as it costs them nothing to wait.

He didn't respect that beloved Knicks jersey when he put it on. So **** him. Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.

Play the right way. It's that simple. If you don't, you are the enemy.

Yeah! I was pulling for him to get playing time and then hopefully contribute, but seems to me now just acting like a punk and stealing money. More interested in social media and taking his pants off in public then giving the Knicks and their fans some return on his huge investment.

let him rot.

Jmpasq
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9/30/2018  10:22 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
Nalod wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Nalod wrote:Doe anyone know the cause of the impass?

$$$$$$$

Looks like they want Noah to lower the price of his exit. Perry/Mills using Noah's desire to latch on to a team as leverage. Noah is missing training camp, preseason.

At Noah's age (and health) its going to take a few months for him to get up to speed. This impasse pushes that timeline into next year.

Im all for the Knicks playing hardball, in this situation.

You know his physical condition? If he is ready to play then he needs to find a camp to get in and get going. Price of freedom might be more than the 2.5$mil.
I know some want a pound of flesh and for him to pay. Personally I just want cap space and if knicks have the leverage then I’d lean hard on him.
No need to justify beyond that. Knicks gave him a contact and its for them to honor it. If He wants out there is a price. Him being lazy or the ignorance knicks demonstrated signing him is not relevant.


Any team that could functionally use Noah would be a playoff team and/or a quasi-contender. As such, those teams are generally cap locked. So they won't have more to give than the vets minimum.

Other considerations - A player on the vets minimum can be cut, paid out, and you can just sign another player at the vets minimum. Additionally, the league pays the salaries of the vet minimum players. The cap hit stays for the team, but the cash hit is ZERO. While I haven't seen it in the NBA, I have seen it in MLB. Sometimes the owner will say "Find the cash yourself" if you want to do something as the GM. ( Moneyball the film covers this a little but not quite...) In some extreme cases, the finding the cash means firing people. Not players. But rank and file regular joes who work for the franchise.

Erik Spolestra started out as a video assistant for Pat Riley. In a cash crunch, it could have easily turned out where Spolestra would have gotten purged with a bunch of other dudes and be selling insurance right now. Eric Mangini used to do the laundry when he started. He got lost trying to pick someone at the airport once under orders and Belichick almost fired him for that. If so, the landscape of several teams would have changed.

Knicks are waiting because it costs them nothing to wait. Also they aren't doing Noah any favors now. Had he been a good soldier for them, they'd try to accommodate him a little more. Knicks have NO LEVERAGE here. NONE. ZERO. They are waiting as it costs them nothing to wait.

He didn't respect that beloved Knicks jersey when he put it on. So **** him. Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.

Play the right way. It's that simple. If you don't, you are the enemy.

Can we send him to the G-League is that an option? Is it like MLB where the vet can refuse and have to be released?

Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
TripleThreat
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10/1/2018  12:57 AM
Jmpasq wrote:Can we send him to the G-League is that an option? Is it like MLB where the vet can refuse and have to be released?

Technically the Knicks can assign Noah to the G League. However Noah would file a grievance with the NBAPA and with the league itself. If he's not injured and not deemed medically unfit to play or clearly being rehabbed from injury to play, Noah can say that the demotion is being used to try to punish him/force his hand to taking a larger hit on a buyout.

I'll say something that is not commonly discussed. When a pro player and his franchise are on thin ice with each other, many agents advise said troubled player to no longer eat/drink anything provided by the team. Or anything outside of your complete control. One strategy, while not oft discussed, is if you spike something a player eats or drinks, you can effectively spike their PEDS testing. Everyone knows when their PEDS tests are coming in the NBA. Everyone. There are supposed to be four "random" tests during the year but they are anything but random.

Once spiked, the player can be/is suspended, he loses salary and the fan narrative is turned against him.

You gotta be careful. When you are known in your host city, people out there want to buy you food and drinks. 99.9999999999999 percent of the time, they are just fans who love the team and it's a gesture. What you do is learn not to take things from people because over time, those people will act/feel as though you owe them. ( i.e. a transactional mentality) But you gotta think about what people might put into it when your back is turned. Doesn't take long.

This is a point where Noah needs to just be extra careful. Don't drive dumb. Don't drive at all honestly. Hire a car service full time. Don't go to the club. Don't go on social media ( he fails here...) Stay away from women. Stay away from controversy.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
Nalod
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10/1/2018  11:31 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:Can we send him to the G-League is that an option? Is it like MLB where the vet can refuse and have to be released?

Technically the Knicks can assign Noah to the G League. However Noah would file a grievance with the NBAPA and with the league itself. If he's not injured and not deemed medically unfit to play or clearly being rehabbed from injury to play, Noah can say that the demotion is being used to try to punish him/force his hand to taking a larger hit on a buyout.

I'll say something that is not commonly discussed. When a pro player and his franchise are on thin ice with each other, many agents advise said troubled player to no longer eat/drink anything provided by the team. Or anything outside of your complete control. One strategy, while not oft discussed, is if you spike something a player eats or drinks, you can effectively spike their PEDS testing. Everyone knows when their PEDS tests are coming in the NBA. Everyone. There are supposed to be four "random" tests during the year but they are anything but random.

Once spiked, the player can be/is suspended, he loses salary and the fan narrative is turned against him.

You gotta be careful. When you are known in your host city, people out there want to buy you food and drinks. 99.9999999999999 percent of the time, they are just fans who love the team and it's a gesture. What you do is learn not to take things from people because over time, those people will act/feel as though you owe them. ( i.e. a transactional mentality) But you gotta think about what people might put into it when your back is turned. Doesn't take long.

This is a point where Noah needs to just be extra careful. Don't drive dumb. Don't drive at all honestly. Hire a car service full time. Don't go to the club. Don't go on social media ( he fails here...) Stay away from women. Stay away from controversy.

Can you stretch a suspended player?
Can you waive a suspended player?

Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
franco12
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10/1/2018  12:33 PM
I don't understand why they didn't let Noah come to camp. He has nothing left in the tank, I am sure. He will be a DNP every night. And eventually, he will acquiesce to a better buy out, or have just one year left on his contract and a cleaner cap reduction.

We're not going anywhere. Heck, maybe he plays and we can trade him for another teams problem.

We don't need the roster spot - we could jettison Ron Baker for that. Any player that far down the depth chart isn't going to make a difference.

Let him have a clean slate with Fizdale - if he messes that up, then banish him and go nuclear on him and the players union.

Marv
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10/1/2018  12:46 PM
franco12 wrote:I don't understand why they didn't let Noah come to camp. He has nothing left in the tank, I am sure. He will be a DNP every night. And eventually, he will acquiesce to a better buy out, or have just one year left on his contract and a cleaner cap reduction.

We're not going anywhere. Heck, maybe he plays and we can trade him for another teams problem.

We don't need the roster spot - we could jettison Ron Baker for that. Any player that far down the depth chart isn't going to make a difference.

Let him have a clean slate with Fizdale - if he messes that up, then banish him and go nuclear on him and the players union.

he may have a clean slate with fiz but i don't thinks so with perry and mills. they've seemed to make it clear for a while that they're done with him after last year.

“This board has become a repository for mentally unstable attention seekers. Or gimmick posters.” - sebstar
Nalod
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10/1/2018  12:54 PM
Its not one thing or another, but even if he plays well and is the great guy we thought, his age and fragility does not fit the timeline. Enes can mentor the bigs and we'll figure out next year with him in time.
Noah's contract makes him untradeable for some time. We don't know what Mills and Perry think enough to speak for them, but logic of this roster and timeline is plenty for me.
Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
Cartman718
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10/1/2018  5:51 PM
Welpee wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Used to be such a huge fan. Hasnt been a stand up guy for a few seasons now.

Got into beefs with his last 2 coaches, took the money, took the peds, and tried to take the crown from Marbury for the worst coming home ever. Good riddance.

Agreed. I hated the deal from Day 1 BUT he used to be a player that actually gave a damn about playing hard
I was on board at the time but folks are right, this may be the worst free agent signing in Knicks history. A lot of people said it at the time and they were right.

worst was edwina sparkles but this one is a close second
Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
franco12
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10/1/2018  7:17 PM
Marv wrote:
franco12 wrote:I don't understand why they didn't let Noah come to camp. He has nothing left in the tank, I am sure. He will be a DNP every night. And eventually, he will acquiesce to a better buy out, or have just one year left on his contract and a cleaner cap reduction.

We're not going anywhere. Heck, maybe he plays and we can trade him for another teams problem.

We don't need the roster spot - we could jettison Ron Baker for that. Any player that far down the depth chart isn't going to make a difference.

Let him have a clean slate with Fizdale - if he messes that up, then banish him and go nuclear on him and the players union.

he may have a clean slate with fiz but i don't thinks so with perry and mills. they've seemed to make it clear for a while that they're done with him after last year.

But what exactly did he do? Yes, PEDs. But, can't fault him- he wants to play and get healthy. I don't approve of the use, but approve of the desire behind it.

He had a fight with Hornacek. Where is he now? Unless Noah curse out Mills & Perry, I'd give him a clean slate. Tempers flared, no one likes to lose, etc., etc...

I get why the FO wants to erase him - he was a horrible signing, a franchise wrecking signing. He might well be a terrible influence.

CTKnicksfan
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10/2/2018  5:06 PM
Knicks need to play this smart - If they are holding out for Noah to give money back in a buyout, it's not going to make a huge difference to the cap hit. Since we're past Sept 1, Noah would get his full salary for 2018-19, while his last year (19.29 mil) would be stretched at 6.4 million/year over 3 years. Even if he agrees to give back the vet min for both years left on his deal, it's only going to reduce the dead money hit by ~1 mil per year as far as 2019 cap space is concerned.

For me, the bigger issue is that the Knicks should not waive/stretch Noah at all, until they absolutely have to. There's too much risk that they could strike out on the top free agents next summer. If that happens, then waiving/stretching Noah would have been a bad move, as they could simply waive him next summer without the stretch and let his full salary come off the books, rather than carrying his dead money into both the 2020 and 2021 summers. Don't stretch a contract for cap space until you actually need the cap space. The risk of having that dead money on the books for 2 extra years outweighs the usefulness of an extra roster spot right now, IMO. Or of not having to endure Noah's bitching on social media.

I get that Noah wants to play, but the Knicks need to do what's best for the future of the franchise, even if that means not releasing him just yet. They don't owe him anything but a paycheck.

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