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Noah To Be Waived Next Month, Per Woj
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TripleThreat
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8/14/2018  12:17 AM
ThePunisher wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Thorough look at the Noah situation..


https://sports.yahoo.com/stretching-joakim-noah-knicks-might-create-new-problem-solve-old-one-193735865.html

The article completely misses the mark, but is at least right in that the philosophy should always be to never look for quick fixes to systemic problems (overpaying our players).

That said, look at the sheer number of All-Star UFA's coming up. There's a reason front offices are frothing at the mouth. We haven't seen a Free Agent class this strong in awhile:

Kevin Durant
Kyrie Irving
Kawhi Leonard
Kemba Walker
Klay Thompson
Jimmy Butler
Demarcus Cousins
Al Horford
Marc Gasol
Lamarcus Aldridge
Deandre Jordan
Goran Dragic


The problem remains the same in principle. Elite guys will want to play with at least two other elite guys. In order to make this cap feasible, you'll need the Bird Rights to at least two of those players. In order to get Bird Rights to anyone other than Zinger, it means a trade. The Knicks are not in a position to trade for an elite player without gutting the young depth they need to actually complement a veteran core.

Knicks have no chance period at Durant, Thompson, Leonard

If Irving and/or Butler are interested in the Knicks, it means something is wrong with their health.

Walker, Horford, Jordan and Dragic might be feasible given gross overpays if the market collapses on those players.

Leonard left a ton of money on the table not signing the SuperMax in San Antonio. Going as a street free agent somewhere is going to be another hit.

People said 2010-2011 was also some kind of free agent bonanza. Players have no incentive to stay put than to keep moving.

AUTOADVERT
ThePunisher
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8/14/2018  12:38 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/14/2018  12:55 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
ThePunisher wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Thorough look at the Noah situation..


https://sports.yahoo.com/stretching-joakim-noah-knicks-might-create-new-problem-solve-old-one-193735865.html

The article completely misses the mark, but is at least right in that the philosophy should always be to never look for quick fixes to systemic problems (overpaying our players).

That said, look at the sheer number of All-Star UFA's coming up. There's a reason front offices are frothing at the mouth. We haven't seen a Free Agent class this strong in awhile:

Kevin Durant
Kyrie Irving
Kawhi Leonard
Kemba Walker
Klay Thompson
Jimmy Butler
Demarcus Cousins
Al Horford
Marc Gasol
Lamarcus Aldridge
Deandre Jordan
Goran Dragic


The problem remains the same in principle. Elite guys will want to play with at least two other elite guys. In order to make this cap feasible, you'll need the Bird Rights to at least two of those players. In order to get Bird Rights to anyone other than Zinger, it means a trade. The Knicks are not in a position to trade for an elite player without gutting the young depth they need to actually complement a veteran core.

Knicks have no chance period at Durant, Thompson, Leonard

If Irving and/or Butler are interested in the Knicks, it means something is wrong with their health.

Walker, Horford, Jordan and Dragic might be feasible given gross overpays if the market collapses on those players.

Leonard left a ton of money on the table not signing the SuperMax in San Antonio. Going as a street free agent somewhere is going to be another hit.

People said 2010-2011 was also some kind of free agent bonanza. Players have no incentive to stay put than to keep moving.

Uh, pal - it WAS a "bonanza." The cHeat essentially won 2 rings because of that 2010 UFA class. This is arguably the most stacked it's been since that offseason.

You can't claim to know the priorities of Leonard or Kyrie or Durant 11 months prior to any decision being made. The fact of the matter is, while Durant SHOULDN'T leave, we just don't know. Why would there be something "wrong with their health" if they wanted to become Batman in Gotham? With all that endorsement money? That stage?

Regardless, I think you're missing the point - and that's the UNRESTRICTED aspect of this. I didn't even name the restricted FA's upcoming.

In sum and substance, I just listed enough UFA All-Star names to form a complete All-Star team for an entire conference, and you're like "meh."

I mean, I'm pessimistic, but at least for righteous reasons. Some of you sound pessimistic about things you can't even POSSIBLY have any knowledge of.

As an example - How do you know Perry doesn't trade for Butler by attaching our 2019 1st with Hardaway's awful contract? Hmm? And how do you know he then doesn't dump Lee by attaching a 2nd rounder or two?

That's completely realistic. All of a sudden you have KP, Irving, Butler.

Am I saying I want that? No. I'm saying it's completely feasible, and yet you Debbie Downers aren't even downing on the right things! If you're gonna be down on the Knicks, be down on their complete inability to tank correctly. And their idiotic tendency to overpay their own players. Downing on the greatest Free Agent market since 2010 is just silly.

Nalod
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8/14/2018  8:40 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/14/2018  8:45 AM
The westchester practice facility and lush mansions and play 41 game in the garden is very appealing.
For a real NY experience the Nets provide a more condensed version. River front practice facility with view of skyline and just a subway ride away from the skyline that a rich young man can afford!
And the Nets have plenty of cap space available. MY point is not that the Nets with young Deangelo have the young talent base of the knicks but they might capture a different type of free agent.

For those frothing at a quick fix for the knicks it could happen. I’m wary of Kyrie and his breakage. At best I can see him as Chris Paul whose longevity has surprised me. But CP3 keeps breaking and can’t go a full playoff cycle. Jimmy Butler I’d rather not full max him.

In all actuality I’d like to see what we have in our youth and then perhaps project what they can become. Since some of us are more insightful than other (I am not professed to having such ability) it would be a more common sense approach. Why bring in someone who duplicates Knox and limits his upside? What will Timmy be? He learned some serious lessons last year and now knows he has the physical tools to succeed in the nba but now has to put it together. I saw signs last year.
Obviously we all want frank to be victor olidipo. How long did that take?

What if Kyle Thompson wants to be here? What if Durant with his large bank account wants a few years of a NY cultural experience and its not about money? Tempting for sure!!

Look at what Lebron did. He did not chase the money or the sure thing. He likes to “Lead” and found a young team with potential for the next few years. He is moving into entertainment and LA is where he wants to be. For all we think we know about him we forget he is now 33 and like many of us his evolved as a man and seems comfortable in his own skin. He is not chasing Jordan but forging his own path. I respect what he has become.

The knicks should forge their own path and they have turned enough corners the last few years to put the mistakes of the past behind. If Phil coming and going put that much more distance between the team and Dolans foolish input then so much the better. With that said the approach to free agency should different. How so? I’m not sure even our front office can fully actualize that. If KP can return to his form and trajectory, Knox fulfills his, and Frank some cross between “Bowen-olidipo-Dennis Johnson” (two have multiple rings BTW) then we might have our future. If THjr is a better tha average sg he will be a nice piece.

Question is what is Mitchell Robinson really? No doubt min 2 years away from any real definition. A “freak” with the potential of being a hybrid “Hakeem/Amare” Type player? Or dare I say it a “Stromile Swift” who was athletically gifted but never got much better?

So with all that in mind how can we really argue who is the right free agent to get? Who fits our time line in terms of their career peak? Who wants the money? Who wants the Culture? Are Nets viable? Knicks are on to something for the first time in decades. Not since Willis Reed was 22 year old Rookie of the year in 1964 have we built a base. Ewings tenure was filled with mistakes and lucky we found Starks and Mase to make our run. Spurs grew it organically and used free agency judiciously to compliment its grown core. There are many paths, knicks will find theirs in time.
Or not.

MS
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8/14/2018  11:49 AM
This year is all about proof of concept.

We need the league to see that Knox is going to get better and better and has star potential. Robinson just needs to show that he is an elite shot blocker, we don't need a superstar just someone similar to Gobert around the hoop.

More importantly we need our existing players to show free agents that NYC is going to be a force for a long time. Frank needs to establish himself as an aggressive elite level defender that can come down and hit the 15 footer and show ability to attack the glass. THJR needs to be a 20 point scorer this season and cut down on his 3 point attempts and we need to get KP on the court for 20 games and remain healthy.

If that happens whose to say that the top tier free agents won't want to come to the Knicks. If you're Durant and you just won 3 NBA championships in a row is there another challenge out there to establish yourself as an all time great. He seems to really care what people think and if you bring a championship to an organization that hasn't won in 50 years his legacy has the chance to surpass Lebron's which is very important to him.

Thompson obviously is staying in GS or going to the Lakers, but why not Jimmy Butler or Leonard? The Knicks will have another draft selection and some interesting pieces. Whose to say the Sixers don't suffer another major injury. The east is wide open for the next few years.

ThePunisher
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8/14/2018  2:12 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/14/2018  2:18 PM
MS wrote:This year is all about proof of concept.

We need the league to see that Knox is going to get better and better and has star potential. Robinson just needs to show that he is an elite shot blocker, we don't need a superstar just someone similar to Gobert around the hoop.

More importantly we need our existing players to show free agents that NYC is going to be a force for a long time. Frank needs to establish himself as an aggressive elite level defender that can come down and hit the 15 footer and show ability to attack the glass. THJR needs to be a 20 point scorer this season and cut down on his 3 point attempts and we need to get KP on the court for 20 games and remain healthy.

If that happens whose to say that the top tier free agents won't want to come to the Knicks. If you're Durant and you just won 3 NBA championships in a row is there another challenge out there to establish yourself as an all time great. He seems to really care what people think and if you bring a championship to an organization that hasn't won in 50 years his legacy has the chance to surpass Lebron's which is very important to him.

Thompson obviously is staying in GS or going to the Lakers, but why not Jimmy Butler or Leonard? The Knicks will have another draft selection and some interesting pieces. Whose to say the Sixers don't suffer another major injury. The east is wide open for the next few years.

Exactly.

Plus, cap space is gonna be used REGARDLESS of what this Nalold said. Yes, yes, we all want an organic foundation built. But whether it's 2019 or 2020 or 2021 we're gonna have to make use of whatever cap space we have before it disintegrates when we have to resign out own youngsters.

Might as well discuss it since it's happening 1 way or the other.

Personally, I'd much rather go the Sixers route and continue to fake it til' you make it. Pile up assets, develop the youth. That way, nearly everyone is cost-controlled. The Celtics route, which is the route we're going down soon, is problematic because once you commit that much money just to pry away one free agent, it completely hampers mobility. Look at Hayward and Kyrie and how much money has been tied up despite not even playing...

I'm of the staunch mind that you use cap space for high level All-Stars only, as in top 10 players, or players that project to be that. Those kinds of acquisitions are transcendent. If you're trying to outbid a team for a base level or middling All-Star, well, we know how that works out. Probably should've listened to the Suns medical staff about Amare...

anrst
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8/14/2018  3:04 PM
ThePunisher wrote:
anrst wrote:agree. in 2 years this FA class will look like a buncha old hand me downs

Takes one to know one.

But seriously, this is the worst post I've seen in my first 2 days of perusing the site.

Kawhi is gonna look like a "hand me down" in 2 years? Wtf? I think you meant MVP.

how many games did Kawhi play last season?

he is either:
a) a mental trainwreck
b) damaged goods physically
c) both

ThePunisher
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8/14/2018  5:32 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/14/2018  5:54 PM
anrst wrote:
ThePunisher wrote:
anrst wrote:agree. in 2 years this FA class will look like a buncha old hand me downs

Takes one to know one.

But seriously, this is the worst post I've seen in my first 2 days of perusing the site.

Kawhi is gonna look like a "hand me down" in 2 years? Wtf? I think you meant MVP.

how many games did Kawhi play last season?

he is either:
a) a mental trainwreck
b) damaged goods physically
c) both

He's not "damaged goods" since he's been cleared by like a billion physicians. His style of play lends itself to minor injuries, which is a small sacrifice for a team to make considering you're getting a top 5 player.

Mental trainwreck? Maybe. Dude is likely on the autism spectrum and is being controlled by a narcissistic family member.

That said, your post is ludicrous. Durant will still be a top player at 32 (that's a year younger than Lebron is right now if you're counting). Kawhi is a young stud. Butler will be 30 and still in his prime in 2 years. Thompson and Irving - nothing needs to be said about them. Kemba will still be in his prime. Cousins will never physically be the same after the achilles but because he's largely skill and size based he'll likely return to about 75% of what he once was, which is still a great player. If his time away from the game can humble him some, this injury might even be a blessing in disguise. Gasol, Aldridge, and Horford are the only concerns. Dragic keeps himself in great shape and will be a cheaper, still-effective option going forward (just came off an All-Star selection, but is likely a bad fit for a young team like the Knicks). Jordan hasn't lost much in the way of athleticism at the age of 30, and he's still a rebounding machine and defensive presence, so he's a great option for teams needing a starting Center (not the Knicks).

The point is, it's going to be a shark-like feeding frenzy next summer. And it wouldn't shock me if a guy like Thompson opts to leave. That luxury and repeater tax the Warriors are facing is no joke, and I don't see them paying Thompson or Green anywhere close to their full max (if push comes to shove they're keeping Green over Thompson without batting an eye)

Knicks are all in on 2019, whether you or I like it or not. There are diminishing returns on the "wait and see" approach since our youngins will need to be resigned sooner than later thus cutting into our cap space. Plus Hardaway's ridiculous salary still looms large for the foreseeable future. And Noah's contract is a problem no matter how you slice it. Knicks will not have room for more than 1 Max slot going forward unless these problems are corrected. And that's why 2019 is the perfect time to strike - so many unrestricted options available, no overhaul necessary. Not to mention the 2020 FA class looks awful. 2021 will also be stacked with marquee names, but are the Knicks seriously going to kick the can that far down the road? Doubt it. And is Giannis really going to forgo that extra $50 Million from a supermax just to flee Milwaukee? Doubt it.

TripleThreat
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8/14/2018  10:37 PM
ThePunisher wrote:

Kevin Durant
Kyrie Irving
Kawhi Leonard
Kemba Walker
Klay Thompson
Jimmy Butler
Demarcus Cousins
Al Horford
Marc Gasol
Lamarcus Aldridge
Deandre Jordan
Goran Dragic


You can't claim to know the priorities of Leonard or Kyrie or Durant 11 months prior to any decision being made. The fact of the matter is, while Durant SHOULDN'T leave, we just don't know. Why would there be something "wrong with their health" if they wanted to become Batman in Gotham? With all that endorsement money? That stage?

Regardless, I think you're missing the point - and that's the UNRESTRICTED aspect of this. I didn't even name the restricted FA's upcoming.

In sum and substance, I just listed enough UFA All-Star names to form a complete All-Star team for an entire conference, and you're like "meh."

I mean, I'm pessimistic, but at least for righteous reasons. Some of you sound pessimistic about things you can't even POSSIBLY have any knowledge of.

As an example - How do you know Perry doesn't trade for Butler by attaching our 2019 1st with Hardaway's awful contract? Hmm? And how do you know he then doesn't dump Lee by attaching a 2nd rounder or two?

That's completely realistic. All of a sudden you have KP, Irving, Butler.

Am I saying I want that? No. I'm saying it's completely feasible, and yet you Debbie Downers aren't even downing on the right things! If you're gonna be down on the Knicks, be down on their complete inability to tank correctly. And their idiotic tendency to overpay their own players. Downing on the greatest Free Agent market since 2010 is just silly.

The three players who can max out and push the Knicks towards a BETTER ( not a guarantee) direction towards actual contention are Durant, Thompson and Leonard. Nothing in the current marketplace suggests that the Knicks would be their best option.

Durant can sign a Super Max with the Warriors and stay in contention during that run. Or he can take a paycut, another one, and go to the Knicks, which has unproven young guys we all hope will pan out and bad contracts.

Thompson and Leonard have better pathways to winning while equalizing out any money/contract length the Knicks can offer.

Irving's Bird Rights belong to the Celtics. What's more likely? Irving comes to the Knicks with Jimmy Butler, both take massive paycuts or the trades to get their Bird Rights would get any kind of depth around them. Or Irving convinces Butler or someone else to come to the Celtics and they go over the cap to resign Irving? And find a better pathway to the Finals from the gutted East?

None of the trades you suggest have any basis in market reality.

I do not know what trades will or will not happen in the next year. I do know if they pass The Mirror Test or not. I do know if the move would get that non Knicks front office fired or not.

The other UFAs on your list, many of them are older, and giving them the max would be an overpay into their deep decline phase.

Assuming the UFA leaves his current team, it means the Knicks have to offer a better situation than 28 other teams. Any trade has to be a better offer than one's submitted by 28 other teams.

If it's fun for you to throw the idea around, fine. It's a discussion board. If you want to say your views on trades and FAs in this thread have a basis in actual and current marketplace reality, then you are wrong. Unless something catastrophic happens to certain players like scandal or deep injury, the Knicks will not whiff a scent of Durant, Thompson and Leonard. Irving's positional value is an "Attack Guard" who tend to age poorly in their decline phase. Also he has an injury history. He'll be a Knick if the market says they offer him the most money and most years, meaning something is wrong with him for other teams not to do the same.

If you want to hide behind "You can't see into the future" then fine. I can't see into the future.

I can see into the current marketplace though. The Knicks max options are only going to be guys who will hurt them long term to sign. Because if they had better options, they wouldn't sign with the Knicks. The lack of better options means something bad (injury, off the court scandal, steep decline already, lack of positional value, lack of modern skill sets valued by the league as a whole)

QnzKnickerbocker87
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8/14/2018  11:40 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/14/2018  11:51 PM
MS wrote:This year is all about proof of concept.

We need the league to see that Knox is going to get better and better and has star potential. Robinson just needs to show that he is an elite shot blocker, we don't need a superstar just someone similar to Gobert around the hoop.

More importantly we need our existing players to show free agents that NYC is going to be a force for a long time. Frank needs to establish himself as an aggressive elite level defender that can come down and hit the 15 footer and show ability to attack the glass. THJR needs to be a 20 point scorer this season and cut down on his 3 point attempts and we need to get KP on the court for 20 games and remain healthy.

If that happens whose to say that the top tier free agents won't want to come to the Knicks. If you're Durant and you just won 3 NBA championships in a row is there another challenge out there to establish yourself as an all time great. He seems to really care what people think and if you bring a championship to an organization that hasn't won in 50 years his legacy has the chance to surpass Lebron's which is very important to him.

Thompson obviously is staying in GS or going to the Lakers, but why not Jimmy Butler or Leonard? The Knicks will have another draft selection and some interesting pieces. Whose to say the Sixers don't suffer another major injury. The east is wide open for the next few years.

Didnt Gobert just win the DPOY award and was the main catalyst to the Jazz finishing 5th and going to the playoffs in the super stacked west? Yeah Donovan Mitchell had a breakout rookie campaign but they were under .500 till Gobert came back from injury

Mitigating circumstances aside, expecting/wanting similar impact from a rookie 2nd rounder is very unrealistic, to put it mildly. I'll just be happy if Money Makin Mitch gets consistent playing time b/c that would mean he's played well enough to earn them, as Fizzy says "you eat what you kill"

ThePunisher
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8/14/2018  11:42 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/14/2018  11:56 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
The three players who can max out and push the Knicks towards a BETTER ( not a guarantee) direction towards actual contention are Durant, Thompson and Leonard. Nothing in the current marketplace suggests that the Knicks would be their best option.

Already you're proving you have no legitimate knowledge of basketball.

Klay Thompson isn't pushing any team to "actual contention" as a significant piece. He's an All-Star. Nothing more, nothing less.


Durant can sign a Super Max with the Warriors and stay in contention during that run. Or he can take a paycut, another one, and go to the Knicks, which has unproven young guys we all hope will pan out and bad contracts.

Durant's not signing a Super Max; more specifically, the Warriors won't offer him that, presuming he wants to stay. He'll take a pay cut. This is beside the point, because AGAIN, you have ZERO ability to see into the future when so many things are in flux and prone to change in the next 11 months. What happens if Steph Curry blows out his knee and Thompson opts out and signs with who the hell ever? Right - exactly.

Thompson and Leonard have better pathways to winning while equalizing out any money/contract length the Knicks can offer.

K.

Irving's Bird Rights belong to the Celtics. What's more likely? Irving comes to the Knicks with Jimmy Butler, both take massive paycuts or the trades to get their Bird Rights would get any kind of depth around them. Or Irving convinces Butler or someone else to come to the Celtics and they go over the cap to resign Irving? And find a better pathway to the Finals from the gutted East?

I think it's likely that Kyrie Irving does Kyrie-esque things like march to the beat of his own drum, just as he did when he said goodbye to Lebron James, waived his 15% trade kicker, and forewent any prospect of receiving a Super-Max. He's from Jersey, has family near here, and loves the big stage. Yes, I 10000% predict Irving will heavily consider the Knicks (not that I particularly care one way or the other)

None of the trades you suggest have any basis in market reality.

Sure they do, kiddo. Wolves would snatch that offer up in a heartbeat near the All-Star break if the Knicks are sliding towards the top of the draft and intend on double dipping on Max FA's. Apples for apples - Butler was dealt for an injured Lavine nearing a new contract, an unproven Dunn, and a pick swap.

I do not know what trades will or will not happen in the next year. I do know if they pass The Mirror Test or not. I do know if the move would get that non Knicks front office fired or not.

Should've stopped there. We agree - you have no idea what you're talking about. You're not the smartest guy in the room; you sure try to pass yourself off as such, though.

The other UFAs on your list, many of them are older, and giving them the max would be an overpay into their deep decline phase.

When did I suggest anyone give the max to the "older" players?? Huh?

Assuming the UFA leaves his current team, it means the Knicks have to offer a better situation than 28 other teams. Any trade has to be a better offer than one's submitted by 28 other teams.

K, Debbie Downer.

If it's fun for you to throw the idea around, fine. It's a discussion board. If you want to say your views on trades and FAs in this thread have a basis in actual and current marketplace reality, then you are wrong.

No, I'm right. YOU'RE wrong. Next! (See how easy that is?)

Unless something catastrophic happens to certain players like scandal or deep injury, the Knicks will not whiff a scent of Durant, Thompson and Leonard.

So you're in deep with their agents, huh? Should've said so!

Hey, can we get this guy a ****in podcast already?

*gets on the floor leaning on elbows with feet in the air like an attentive son

"What's Kevin's agent like, pop pop? Is he nice? Is his hair real? Oh, oh! I know - they're hair plugs aren't they?"

Irving's positional value is an "Attack Guard" who tend to age poorly in their decline phase. Also he has an injury history. He'll be a Knick if the market says they offer him the most money and most years, meaning something is wrong with him for other teams not to do the same.

K. You're in love with Kyrie; we get it, pal.


If you want to hide behind "You can't see into the future" then fine. I can't see into the future.

I don't hide from anything or anyone. And you would do well to remind yourself of that fact.

I don't know what kind of pseudo-psychological head games you're attempting to play here, but this is sophistry at its finest. We agree - YOU CANNOT SEE INTO THE FUTURE.

I can see into the current marketplace though.

No...you can't.

The Knicks max options are only going to be guys who will hurt them long term to sign.

Yea, you mean like that Kyrie fella who buried the Warriors, eh?

Because if they had better options, they wouldn't sign with the Knicks. The lack of better options means something bad (injury, off the court scandal, steep decline already, lack of positional value, lack of modern skill sets valued by the league as a whole)

Or maybe it means they wanna sign with the Knicks? New York's a great option, even if the owner is a moronic scumbag. Knicks are the most networked front office right now. There's a reason they hired the brother in law of the friggin President...the 1st black president. Players and their agents notice these things.

Anyway, this was a waste of my finite energy. I feel like your long-ass response was mostly satire? But I can't tell. Either way, it was full of moronic logical fallacies and false equivalencies. You did not disprove a single thing I wrote. You're welcome to your opinion, but not to your own reality. And I could REALLY do without your smug, unfriendly, miserly, defeatist cynicism, though. I'm not even a fan right now and you make me sound like Spike Lee.

Jesus Christ.

fishmike
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8/15/2018  8:32 AM
ThePunisher wrote:
fishmike wrote:
ThePunisher wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Thorough look at the Noah situation..


https://sports.yahoo.com/stretching-joakim-noah-knicks-might-create-new-problem-solve-old-one-193735865.html

The article completely misses the mark, but is at least right in that the philosophy should always be to never look for quick fixes to systemic problems (overpaying our players).

That said, look at the sheer number of All-Star UFA's coming up. There's a reason front offices are frothing at the mouth. We haven't seen a Free Agent class this strong in awhile:

Kevin Durant
Kyrie Irving
Kawhi Leonard
Kemba Walker
Klay Thompson
Jimmy Butler
Demarcus Cousins
Al Horford
Marc Gasol
Lamarcus Aldridge
Deandre Jordan
Goran Dragic

that UFA class sucks to be honest... for the Knicks. Who is viable here? I see Kyrie as a strong possibility and I would welcome him signing the max here. With Timmy/Knox/Frank/Robinson/KP/Dotson you have the parts to build a great defensive squad with Kyrie as your "scorer."

Who else on that list do the Knicks have a chance of singing and for how much? That FA class for the Knicks is Kyrie or bust.


A.) You're nuts if you think this UFA class "sucks." I recommend bi-focals. Seeing as how it's the complete OPPOSITE of sucking. It's the strongest in many years

B.) Who's viable? Who's affordable?


C.)It's the polar and complete OPPOSITE of "Kyrie or Bust," and it's this attitude as to why for DECADES ownership tried to rush the process. For fans like you who don't know any better.

Yeaaa!!!! Knicks are back! Stars are coming! We are saved again! Anyone who disagrees doenst know the sport and is a debbie downer.

You are right. Knicks will look great with KD and Klay. Cant wait.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
anrst
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8/15/2018  1:24 PM
ThePunisher wrote:
anrst wrote:
ThePunisher wrote:
anrst wrote:agree. in 2 years this FA class will look like a buncha old hand me downs

Takes one to know one.

But seriously, this is the worst post I've seen in my first 2 days of perusing the site.

Kawhi is gonna look like a "hand me down" in 2 years? Wtf? I think you meant MVP.

how many games did Kawhi play last season?

he is either:
a) a mental trainwreck
b) damaged goods physically
c) both

He's not "damaged goods" since he's been cleared by like a billion physicians. His style of play lends itself to minor injuries, which is a small sacrifice for a team to make considering you're getting a top 5 player.

Mental trainwreck? Maybe. Dude is likely on the autism spectrum and is being controlled by a narcissistic family member.

That said, your post is ludicrous. Durant will still be a top player at 32 (that's a year younger than Lebron is right now if you're counting). Kawhi is a young stud. Butler will be 30 and still in his prime in 2 years. Thompson and Irving - nothing needs to be said about them. Kemba will still be in his prime. Cousins will never physically be the same after the achilles but because he's largely skill and size based he'll likely return to about 75% of what he once was, which is still a great player. If his time away from the game can humble him some, this injury might even be a blessing in disguise. Gasol, Aldridge, and Horford are the only concerns. Dragic keeps himself in great shape and will be a cheaper, still-effective option going forward (just came off an All-Star selection, but is likely a bad fit for a young team like the Knicks). Jordan hasn't lost much in the way of athleticism at the age of 30, and he's still a rebounding machine and defensive presence, so he's a great option for teams needing a starting Center (not the Knicks).

The point is, it's going to be a shark-like feeding frenzy next summer. And it wouldn't shock me if a guy like Thompson opts to leave. That luxury and repeater tax the Warriors are facing is no joke, and I don't see them paying Thompson or Green anywhere close to their full max (if push comes to shove they're keeping Green over Thompson without batting an eye)

Knicks are all in on 2019, whether you or I like it or not. There are diminishing returns on the "wait and see" approach since our youngins will need to be resigned sooner than later thus cutting into our cap space. Plus Hardaway's ridiculous salary still looms large for the foreseeable future. And Noah's contract is a problem no matter how you slice it. Knicks will not have room for more than 1 Max slot going forward unless these problems are corrected. And that's why 2019 is the perfect time to strike - so many unrestricted options available, no overhaul necessary. Not to mention the 2020 FA class looks awful. 2021 will also be stacked with marquee names, but are the Knicks seriously going to kick the can that far down the road? Doubt it. And is Giannis really going to forgo that extra $50 Million from a supermax just to flee Milwaukee? Doubt it.

this guy ^ is dumb

fishmike
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8/15/2018  2:44 PM
Sucks that Noah turned out to be such trash. After missing out on his prime years because of another stupid trade I had hoped he could be a throwback. He's done. What a waste
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
knicks1248
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8/15/2018  3:44 PM
Is he done from a physical stand point or did he do or say something so bad that there's no taking it back.

Even if he's lost a few steps, he would still be a solid mentor to the young big men we have, but i just have a feeling this is more personal then business, or both

ES
anrst
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8/15/2018  4:35 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/15/2018  4:36 PM
bill simmons podcast from friday with knicks fan chef eddie huang they were talking like it was a known thing that noah parties way too much.

i mean, i guess it's easy to assume that. but they were talking in tones like he's got some legit problems.

(also, was funny that eddie was apparently wearing all knicks summer league garb. talking about how much he loves summer league, it's playoffs for knicks fans)

https://www.theringer.com/the-bill-simmons-podcast/2018/8/10/17674234/new-york-hoops-food-trends-espns-future-and-nick-saban-with-eddie-huang-and-jim-miller

Nalod
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8/16/2018  8:14 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/16/2018  8:19 AM
knicks1248 wrote:Is he done from a physical stand point or did he do or say something so bad that there's no taking it back.

Even if he's lost a few steps, he would still be a solid mentor to the young big men we have, but i just have a feeling this is more personal then business, or both


How do you know he is a good mentor and guy to have around? Kanter, Lee, Hardaway and Lance Thomas are all vets to mentor if need be.
He was so good he was exiled last year! You quick to lay blame on the coaches last year but here is a guy that was banned from the team. That’s not being a good influencee. Coaches at that time were trying to win games. He was enraged for what reason? what prevented them to reconcile?
In any event the guy is 33, fragile and obviously has not demonstrated the ability to stay healthy. Why put time and effort into him when we are clearly rebuilding mode? We are done tearing it down.
If knicks are intent on “tanking” then its better to develop the “Fiz Kids”.
I doubt its personal. It’s a new coach and staff. What ever Noah’s real reputation is its carried with him.
We are moving on. It’s a healthy sign.

TripleThreat
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8/16/2018  11:21 PM
ThePunisher wrote:Or maybe it means they wanna sign with the Knicks? New York's a great option, even if the owner is a moronic scumbag. Knicks are the most networked front office right now. There's a reason they hired the brother in law of the friggin President...the 1st black president. Players and their agents notice these things.

Anyway, this was a waste of my finite energy. I feel like your long-ass response was mostly satire? But I can't tell. Either way, it was full of moronic logical fallacies and false equivalencies. You did not disprove a single thing I wrote. You're welcome to your opinion, but not to your own reality. And I could REALLY do without your smug, unfriendly, miserly, defeatist cynicism, though. I'm not even a fan right now and you make me sound like Spike Lee.

Jesus Christ.


Craig Robinson works in "player development"

It's a polite term for a guy who babysits rookie players. For example, on the Patriots, Bill Belichick's "player development" guys, many of them call players and make sure they get to practice. If needed, they go and drive them to practice. Also part of the job is running interference from the families of the young players from the upper levels of the front office (It's a new learning curve for families of young players too)

Robinson is what everyone in pro sports calls a "coat rider" Word I get is he's a decent enough guy, but he was never a good coach and doesn't have the background to coach in the NBA and/or G League.

He used to be teammates with Steve Mills, that's how he got the job. He got his Bucks job because of his financial world background and the backgrounds of the Bucks three headed ownership monster ( I believe he had ties with Dinan) Word out is the Bucks were going to push him out anyway and Mills gave a friend a soft landing.

Most of you are still out there in working world. It happens. No one to blame. Sometimes you can help out a friend and give them a soft landing. It's what friends are for in life.

Does it hurt the marketing that the Obamas might come to a game or two? Probably not. But it hurt Oregon State. Word out is they wanted out from Robinson sooner, but every so often, the Obamas would come to a game and the school didn't want that narrative, that they fired Michelle's brother right after they came to visit the school.

Your stance seems to be Kevin Durant would leave max money and max years and walking from a true contender/dynasty where he won two rings and playing with the greatest long range shooter in NBA history, while forgoing 28 other teams , to go a team with a **** bird owner, a bunch of unproven guys, to get less money and less length on a contract, waiting for bad contracts to fall off the roster ( no guarantee Lee or Hardaway Jr will get traded off or at what cost plus stretch hit of Noah), and if Durant could drag the Knicks and this broken roster into the Finals (doubtful), only to get slaughtered by the team he left in the first place? All because of an in law coat rider who drives dumb ass rookies to practice?

In pro sports, it's a very small world. Against the celebrity culture, it's a very small world. Everyone knows someone from somewhere. Mills helped a buddy and former teammate get a job. So what. There are dudes here who probably got a break or favor from a friend for work or opportunity.

Durant will defy the basic methodology of NBA free agents in the modern era ( max money/max years/best chance to win and contend) over someone's brother in law? Not even his own brother in law. Just some random brother in law with whom he has zero investment or relationship with in any possible way.

OK, I'm supposed to pretend you are a "new person".

Dear New Person,
Your ideas make no sense from a market based perspective. It's a polite way of saying your ideas would actually get someone fired if they were dumb enough to take them/try them.
Hugs and kisses,
Not Your Brother In Law

jrodmc
Posts: 32927
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8/17/2018  2:43 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
ThePunisher wrote:Or maybe it means they wanna sign with the Knicks? New York's a great option, even if the owner is a moronic scumbag. Knicks are the most networked front office right now. There's a reason they hired the brother in law of the friggin President...the 1st black president. Players and their agents notice these things.

Anyway, this was a waste of my finite energy. I feel like your long-ass response was mostly satire? But I can't tell. Either way, it was full of moronic logical fallacies and false equivalencies. You did not disprove a single thing I wrote. You're welcome to your opinion, but not to your own reality. And I could REALLY do without your smug, unfriendly, miserly, defeatist cynicism, though. I'm not even a fan right now and you make me sound like Spike Lee.

Jesus Christ.


Craig Robinson works in "player development"

It's a polite term for a guy who babysits rookie players. For example, on the Patriots, Bill Belichick's "player development" guys, many of them call players and make sure they get to practice. If needed, they go and drive them to practice. Also part of the job is running interference from the families of the young players from the upper levels of the front office (It's a new learning curve for families of young players too)

Robinson is what everyone in pro sports calls a "coat rider" Word I get is he's a decent enough guy, but he was never a good coach and doesn't have the background to coach in the NBA and/or G League.

He used to be teammates with Steve Mills, that's how he got the job. He got his Bucks job because of his financial world background and the backgrounds of the Bucks three headed ownership monster ( I believe he had ties with Dinan) Word out is the Bucks were going to push him out anyway and Mills gave a friend a soft landing.

Most of you are still out there in working world. It happens. No one to blame. Sometimes you can help out a friend and give them a soft landing. It's what friends are for in life.

Does it hurt the marketing that the Obamas might come to a game or two? Probably not. But it hurt Oregon State. Word out is they wanted out from Robinson sooner, but every so often, the Obamas would come to a game and the school didn't want that narrative, that they fired Michelle's brother right after they came to visit the school.

Your stance seems to be Kevin Durant would leave max money and max years and walking from a true contender/dynasty where he won two rings and playing with the greatest long range shooter in NBA history, while forgoing 28 other teams , to go a team with a **** bird owner, a bunch of unproven guys, to get less money and less length on a contract, waiting for bad contracts to fall off the roster ( no guarantee Lee or Hardaway Jr will get traded off or at what cost plus stretch hit of Noah), and if Durant could drag the Knicks and this broken roster into the Finals (doubtful), only to get slaughtered by the team he left in the first place? All because of an in law coat rider who drives dumb ass rookies to practice?

In pro sports, it's a very small world. Against the celebrity culture, it's a very small world. Everyone knows someone from somewhere. Mills helped a buddy and former teammate get a job. So what. There are dudes here who probably got a break or favor from a friend for work or opportunity.

Durant will defy the basic methodology of NBA free agents in the modern era ( max money/max years/best chance to win and contend) over someone's brother in law? Not even his own brother in law. Just some random brother in law with whom he has zero investment or relationship with in any possible way.

OK, I'm supposed to pretend you are a "new person".

Dear New Person,
Your ideas make no sense from a market based perspective. It's a polite way of saying your ideas would actually get someone fired if they were dumb enough to take them/try them.
Hugs and kisses,
Not Your Brother In Law

You are the Jerry Sloan of this board, running newbies out of the building. LMAO

WaltLongmire
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8/20/2018  11:35 AM
EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
Marv
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8/20/2018  12:00 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:

brilliant

Noah To Be Waived Next Month, Per Woj

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