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Trey Burke playing @ the Legendary Dyckman Summer League Tournament
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CrushAlot
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7/23/2018  9:16 PM
Jmpasq wrote:
anrst wrote:why is he playing in this scrub event?

I wish Frank would

This.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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BigDaddyG
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7/23/2018  11:11 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
anrst wrote:why is he playing in this scrub event?

I wish Frank would

This.

Naw, I'd rather see Frank scrimmage with actual NBA players, like he's doing now. Those type of events are fun, but you're not going to get better playing "T-Bone," the 15th leading scorer in the NAIA.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
anrst
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7/24/2018  12:05 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
anrst wrote:why is he playing in this scrub event?

I wish Frank would

This.

Naw, I'd rather see Frank scrimmage with actual NBA players, like he's doing now. Those type of events are fun, but you're not going to get better playing "T-Bone," the 15th leading scorer in the NAIA.

if only Frank would develop street ball habbits. oh yea.

suckers for the swagger. swagger doesn't win.

Nalod
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7/24/2018  9:45 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:I like Burke but how much of his play is just empty numbers? I would like to keep him as a 20 minute bench guard but a starter on a high level playoff team? That is very doubtful.


Some other complications.

Burke did not go a full NBA regular season grind. He did play, but against lesser competition and not at an NBA schedule game pace. The term is "fresh legs"

The D/G League does not test at the rate of the NBA for PEDs/drugs. Burke did a better job of juicing, he looked stronger, but if that's sustainable all season is another story ( They are all juicing. All of them. All of them. I'll say all of them one more time)

Given the talent deficit and injury situation, Burke could call his own number more often last year, but this year, there is more talent on the roster. He's simply not great running an offense and has never shown that capability consistently.

26 is young for real life terms or other careers. In the NBA though, what you see is what you get past your third year. His mid range shooting has improve a lot. I'll give him credit for that. He was playing like a guy wanting a new contract. I'll give him that too.

I don't know if you can have him and Kanter on the floor at the same time. That's too much of zero defense to overcome. The pair has no chance against even a mediocre basic NBA pick and roll.

He's a Knick. Everyone is going to hope for the best. But he was available for a reason to start. His record of incompetence is longer than his record of being useful ( Negating volume. If you get enough minutes and take enough shots, you will generate counting stats of some kind eventually)

Some of this will come down to Tier 5 of free agency. If there are still enough bargains around, strong chance someone more useful can help at the vets minimum.

He looks for his own shot way too much. And honestly, I'm not sure it's a distinction he's making on the floor. (i.e. he's not shown he can play another way) His ability to score and create his own shot do not justify him calling his own number as frequently as he does. The NCAA was a long time ago for him. (It's like saying a chick was hot when she was a sophomore in college, but now she's 5 years removed from that timeline. Now she's fat. She was hot back then! OK, back then, Kevin Spacey was the headliner in some some show called House Of Cards on some upstart streaming service called Netflix. Bill Cosby was also still beloved. People here were worrying about The Sanchize. )

Many of you went to college. Your college background might help you get your first job out of college. Maybe the first couple. In a few instances, the kind of education you get might push the narrative of your entire career ( like being an accountant) But in most cases, for most people, at some point, what you did in college begins to matter less than your experience in the actual working world. Also your networking skills. The people you know. Etc, etc. Burke's college pedigree is meaningless at this point with regards to his NBA career.

I'm sorry, who on the Knicks played good defense under JH and Rambust.

Last time i heard, fiz isn't looking for a traditional pg in his system.

lets be honest, for a every team there are about 2 or 3 solid defenders, the rest are halfway decent,but the system and philosophy is what matters most. we had almost no atlectic players on the roster last season other than KP(half of season)THJ (miss 2 months) and troy.

Do we have a better option ahead of him?

when you say he looks for his shot way to much, do you mean more then CURRY,IRVING, WESTBROOK, CP3, ect, the average to above average Guard in the NBA takes 17 to 20 shots per game, burke avg 13 attempts.

can we also add the way they jerked him around with his minutes and role on the team, 15 min one game, 41 the next, no minutes the next, 20 minutes the next, started the next, played in only the 4th qtr the next game..cmon dude, give him a break.

Remember this when you Frank rant.
Regarding Burke, he had the hard task to demonstrate his ability and you have to perform under duress of inconsistent minutes! He did very well.
But also given Fiz not being a position coach it them makes Burkes fate interesting. I see him off the bench. Who starts? Dunno.

knicks1248
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7/24/2018  10:34 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:

I'm sorry, who on the Knicks played good defense under JH and Rambust.

Last time i heard, fiz isn't looking for a traditional pg in his system.

lets be honest, for a every team there are about 2 or 3 solid defenders, the rest are halfway decent,but the system and philosophy is what matters most. we had almost no atlectic players on the roster last season other than KP(half of season)THJ (miss 2 months) and troy.

Do we have a better option ahead of him?

when you say he looks for his shot way to much, do you mean more then CURRY,IRVING, WESTBROOK, CP3, ect, the average to above average Guard in the NBA takes 17 to 20 shots per game, burke avg 13 attempts.

can we also add the way they jerked him around with his minutes and role on the team, 15 min one game, 41 the next, no minutes the next, 20 minutes the next, started the next, played in only the 4th qtr the next game..cmon dude, give him a break.

Burke could play under Pop, Stevens, Atkinson, Spolestra. He could play for a mix of Chuck Daly brought back from the dead and Coach K along with some Terminator parts and he'd still be a lousy net negative defender.

"System and philosophy" can hide a player if

A) He can at least defend at a league average level for his position

or more rarely

B) The other 4 guys are plus defenders, with one at least a legit yearly DPOY candidate

"Better options" will depend on who gets bought out, who gets cut and what's left in Tier 5 of free agency before the season starts.

Burke looks for his own shot too much considering GAME FLOW. His job is to run the offense, not just run his own individual offense. A point guard might take 20 shots in a game. Or he might take 5. Depends on what the defense is giving you and the matchups for your entire team. Burke has shown to be able to play exactly one way. Which is be a chucker. He is not efficient enough on offense nor dominant enough to play his style of ball all the time. If you want to compare him to future HOF players, have at it. If you can't see the difference between four future HOF players and Burke, then no one can help you.

He was AVAILABLE FOR A REASON. Every other team had a chance at him when he was a free agent and NO ONE WANTED HIM. What does that tell you?

He might be a better option RIGHT NOW than some other options, but he might not be and likely would not be the option that offers the most potential for the future, however slight.

A 20 year old UDFA with no real NBA game experience might not give you what Burke can give you for a few games, but over the LONG HAUL, there's at least potential for that 20 year old to make leaps in his development. At this point, what you see is about what you get with Burke.

There is AN ACTUAL OPPORTUNITY COST ASSOCIATED WITH EVERY ROSTER SPOT AND EVERY MINUTE YOU CAN HAVE A PLAYER ON THE FLOOR OR NOT.

Someone will say, but the Knicks can raise his trade value! A ball dominant chucker who is a zero on defense and lacks true NBA length and athleticism. If they wanted him, other teams, they would have gotten him for FREE, why then trade for him? Esp when they will have other trade options and signing guys who were bought out?

Your not doing your home work dude, burke had 3 to 4 teams interested in him, but he chose the knicks G league to develop his game. Thats what I love about his story

“It was a path I chose, I had offers coming into this season, but I think I wanted to recreate myself,” Burke told Basketball Insiders. “[And] show what I can do on a consistent basis, night in, night out, with consistent minutes, so that’s why I chose that route.”


There are very few 20 point scoring guards who are efficient. When your minutes are erratic, so will your game. Frank and Lance barely ever shot the ball even when wide open, and Lee(as efficient as he was) also turned down good open looks, it was actually a breath of fresh air seeing burke play aggressive and look for his shot., like most pg's today.


There's no way in hell I'm starting frank or Mudiay(both shoot below 40% if your talk efficiet) over bukre, unless they come to camp and flat out crush it.

Most players game is what it is once they get to the NBA, they just get stronger, faster and smarter.

your not a chuker when you shoot 50% frrm 2's and 36%(league avg) from 3, and only take 13 shots. i guess you feel that after 3 yrs in the NBA there's no hope for a player, I guess we can't expect much more from kp uh?

ES
GustavBahler
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7/24/2018  12:24 PM
anrst wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
anrst wrote:why is he playing in this scrub event?

I wish Frank would

This.

Naw, I'd rather see Frank scrimmage with actual NBA players, like he's doing now. Those type of events are fun, but you're not going to get better playing "T-Bone," the 15th leading scorer in the NAIA.

if only Frank would develop street ball habbits. oh yea.

suckers for the swagger. swagger doesn't win.

Thats how most HOFers, players who made this league what it is today honed their skills, playing streetball in the summer. Been doing it going back more than 50 years.

Its about trying out new moves. building confidence, going to the lab. NBA's best still do it, just getting more publicity now. Training in a more formal setting has its place, and so streetball.

knicks1248
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7/24/2018  1:23 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
anrst wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
anrst wrote:why is he playing in this scrub event?

I wish Frank would

This.

Naw, I'd rather see Frank scrimmage with actual NBA players, like he's doing now. Those type of events are fun, but you're not going to get better playing "T-Bone," the 15th leading scorer in the NAIA.

if only Frank would develop street ball habbits. oh yea.

suckers for the swagger. swagger doesn't win.

Thats how most HOFers, players who made this league what it is today honed their skills, playing streetball in the summer. Been doing it going back more than 50 years.

Its about trying out new moves. building confidence, going to the lab. NBA's best still do it, just getting more publicity now. Training in a more formal setting has its place, and so streetball.

Frank and Street ball...is like water and oil my friend.

You don't see NBA EURO players on the NY street courts, it's very rare.

ES
BigDaddyG
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7/24/2018  1:49 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
anrst wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
anrst wrote:why is he playing in this scrub event?

I wish Frank would

This.

Naw, I'd rather see Frank scrimmage with actual NBA players, like he's doing now. Those type of events are fun, but you're not going to get better playing "T-Bone," the 15th leading scorer in the NAIA.

if only Frank would develop street ball habbits. oh yea.

suckers for the swagger. swagger doesn't win.

Thats how most HOFers, players who made this league what it is today honed their skills, playing streetball in the summer. Been doing it going back more than 50 years.

Its about trying out new moves. building confidence, going to the lab. NBA's best still do it, just getting more publicity now. Training in a more formal setting has its place, and so streetball.

I'd say Kobe Bryant got better through conditioning, drills and scrimmaging against real NBA players. I agree that street ball played a part back in the day for some players. But for every Dr. J, you had guys like Jerry West who I doubt ever stepped a foot on Rucker. Like I said, those games are fun. But I doubt they matter much in the skill development of most players today.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
GustavBahler
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7/24/2018  1:49 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
anrst wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
anrst wrote:why is he playing in this scrub event?

I wish Frank would

This.

Naw, I'd rather see Frank scrimmage with actual NBA players, like he's doing now. Those type of events are fun, but you're not going to get better playing "T-Bone," the 15th leading scorer in the NAIA.

if only Frank would develop street ball habbits. oh yea.

suckers for the swagger. swagger doesn't win.

Thats how most HOFers, players who made this league what it is today honed their skills, playing streetball in the summer. Been doing it going back more than 50 years.

Its about trying out new moves. building confidence, going to the lab. NBA's best still do it, just getting more publicity now. Training in a more formal setting has its place, and so streetball.

Frank and Street ball...is like water and oil my friend.

You don't see NBA EURO players on the NY street courts, it's very rare.

One reason being commitments to Intl tournaments. Remember how Willy was supposed to have played great in Intl play, not here anymore. You're right that we dont see many European players participating in summer leagues, tournaments, in the US, that doesnt erase what role its had in shaping the NBA. The ABA brought streetball to the NBA in a big way, streetball is part of the league's DNA now.

Might not be Frank's way of doing things, given his background, but I have a problem thinking of a backcourt player (with Frank's skill set) who needs it more.

Hornacek was a high IQ Bball player who wasnt known as having a streetballer's game in him. Even he said that Frank should be out competiting over the summer, every chance he gets. Was very protective of Frank as a rook.

GustavBahler
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7/24/2018  1:59 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
anrst wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
anrst wrote:why is he playing in this scrub event?

I wish Frank would

This.

Naw, I'd rather see Frank scrimmage with actual NBA players, like he's doing now. Those type of events are fun, but you're not going to get better playing "T-Bone," the 15th leading scorer in the NAIA.

if only Frank would develop street ball habbits. oh yea.

suckers for the swagger. swagger doesn't win.

Thats how most HOFers, players who made this league what it is today honed their skills, playing streetball in the summer. Been doing it going back more than 50 years.

Its about trying out new moves. building confidence, going to the lab. NBA's best still do it, just getting more publicity now. Training in a more formal setting has its place, and so streetball.

I'd say Kobe Bryant got better through conditioning, drills and scrimmaging against real NBA players. I agree that street ball played a part back in the day for some players. But for every Dr. J, you had guys like Jerry West who I doubt ever stepped a foot on Rucker. Like I said, those games are fun. But I doubt they matter much in the skill development of most players today.

Nothing is guaranteed. Its about the skills you have, and the work you put in to get better. I dont see any real benefit to writing off what's been for many players a place to work on, and improve their game. If it gave Frank just a little more confidence attacking the rim, it would have been worth it.

BigDaddyG
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7/24/2018  2:01 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
anrst wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
anrst wrote:why is he playing in this scrub event?

I wish Frank would

This.

Naw, I'd rather see Frank scrimmage with actual NBA players, like he's doing now. Those type of events are fun, but you're not going to get better playing "T-Bone," the 15th leading scorer in the NAIA.

if only Frank would develop street ball habbits. oh yea.

suckers for the swagger. swagger doesn't win.

Thats how most HOFers, players who made this league what it is today honed their skills, playing streetball in the summer. Been doing it going back more than 50 years.

Its about trying out new moves. building confidence, going to the lab. NBA's best still do it, just getting more publicity now. Training in a more formal setting has its place, and so streetball.

Frank and Street ball...is like water and oil my friend.

You don't see NBA EURO players on the NY street courts, it's very rare.

One reason being commitments to Intl tournaments. Remember how Willy was supposed to have played great in Intl play, not here anymore. You're right that we dont see many European players participating in summer leagues, tournaments, in the US, that doesnt erase what role its had in shaping the NBA. The ABA brought streetball to the NBA in a big way, streetball is part of the league's DNA now.

Might not be Frank's way of doing things, given his background, but I have a problem thinking of a backcourt player (with Frank's skill set) who needs it more.

Hornacek was a high IQ Bball player who wasnt known as having a streetballer's game in him. Even he said that Frank should be out competiting over the summer, every chance he gets. Was very protective of Frank as a rook.

That doesn't necessarily mean street ball games. Fizdale said it himself. Frank is practically living in the gym. I'm sure he's getting his reps in.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Nalod
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7/24/2018  2:04 PM
Really, how many games in the street tournament? three? Four?
THat really going to "Develop" him? There are likely a very long list of play ground legends that never set foot on the NBA court than ever did!
Back in the day teams did not own their own gyms like they do now. I'd say all the benefits of free wheeling play can be done with players in other cities or at home gym and can work on new moves, experiment, etc without a few nites at a park showboating.
GustavBahler
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7/24/2018  2:22 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
anrst wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
anrst wrote:why is he playing in this scrub event?

I wish Frank would

This.

Naw, I'd rather see Frank scrimmage with actual NBA players, like he's doing now. Those type of events are fun, but you're not going to get better playing "T-Bone," the 15th leading scorer in the NAIA.

if only Frank would develop street ball habbits. oh yea.

suckers for the swagger. swagger doesn't win.

Thats how most HOFers, players who made this league what it is today honed their skills, playing streetball in the summer. Been doing it going back more than 50 years.

Its about trying out new moves. building confidence, going to the lab. NBA's best still do it, just getting more publicity now. Training in a more formal setting has its place, and so streetball.

Frank and Street ball...is like water and oil my friend.

You don't see NBA EURO players on the NY street courts, it's very rare.

One reason being commitments to Intl tournaments. Remember how Willy was supposed to have played great in Intl play, not here anymore. You're right that we dont see many European players participating in summer leagues, tournaments, in the US, that doesnt erase what role its had in shaping the NBA. The ABA brought streetball to the NBA in a big way, streetball is part of the league's DNA now.

Might not be Frank's way of doing things, given his background, but I have a problem thinking of a backcourt player (with Frank's skill set) who needs it more.

Hornacek was a high IQ Bball player who wasnt known as having a streetballer's game in him. Even he said that Frank should be out competiting over the summer, every chance he gets. Was very protective of Frank as a rook.

That doesn't necessarily mean street ball games. Fizdale said it himself. Frank is practically living in the gym. I'm sure he's getting his reps in.

He said "pick up games" as well. We're talking about some NBA players, some streetball players, college players. On concrete, or in a gym, at Rucker, the game is streetball, or whatever you want to call it. Its not playing conservative NBA style ball in a gym with the same teammates.

Frank needs to get out of his shell. I believe Rucker, Drew might help. Not intended to get him to play like Kyrie 24/7.

Nalod
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7/24/2018  4:05 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
anrst wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
anrst wrote:why is he playing in this scrub event?

I wish Frank would

This.

Naw, I'd rather see Frank scrimmage with actual NBA players, like he's doing now. Those type of events are fun, but you're not going to get better playing "T-Bone," the 15th leading scorer in the NAIA.

if only Frank would develop street ball habbits. oh yea.

suckers for the swagger. swagger doesn't win.

Thats how most HOFers, players who made this league what it is today honed their skills, playing streetball in the summer. Been doing it going back more than 50 years.

Its about trying out new moves. building confidence, going to the lab. NBA's best still do it, just getting more publicity now. Training in a more formal setting has its place, and so streetball.

Frank and Street ball...is like water and oil my friend.

You don't see NBA EURO players on the NY street courts, it's very rare.

One reason being commitments to Intl tournaments. Remember how Willy was supposed to have played great in Intl play, not here anymore. You're right that we dont see many European players participating in summer leagues, tournaments, in the US, that doesnt erase what role its had in shaping the NBA. The ABA brought streetball to the NBA in a big way, streetball is part of the league's DNA now.

Might not be Frank's way of doing things, given his background, but I have a problem thinking of a backcourt player (with Frank's skill set) who needs it more.

Hornacek was a high IQ Bball player who wasnt known as having a streetballer's game in him. Even he said that Frank should be out competiting over the summer, every chance he gets. Was very protective of Frank as a rook.

That doesn't necessarily mean street ball games. Fizdale said it himself. Frank is practically living in the gym. I'm sure he's getting his reps in.

He said "pick up games" as well. We're talking about some NBA players, some streetball players, college players. On concrete, or in a gym, at Rucker, the game is streetball, or whatever you want to call it. Its not playing conservative NBA style ball in a gym with the same teammates.

Frank needs to get out of his shell. I believe Rucker, Drew might help. Not intended to get him to play like Kyrie 24/7.

Does it really matter if its on the Street or in the gym?

nykshaknbake
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7/24/2018  6:34 PM
Burke played ok D last year. His size is always going to be an issue, but it's not fair to compare him to Nate Robinson who he's a good 4 inches taller than. He shot 36% from 3 which is around average(I think, correct me if I'm wrong!) His 50% FG% last season was very good. If he keeps it up we could(and have in the past) do alot worse than Burke. Develop Frank into a 3 and D SG and you are all set with your starting guards.
CrushAlot
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7/24/2018  7:02 PM
nykshaknbake wrote:Burke played ok D last year. His size is always going to be an issue, but it's not fair to compare him to Nate Robinson who he's a good 4 inches taller than. He shot 36% from 3 which is around average(I think, correct me if I'm wrong!) His 50% FG% last season was very good. If he keeps it up we could(and have in the past) do alot worse than Burke. Develop Frank into a 3 and D SG and you are all set with your starting guards.
Burke also has a 6'5 wingspan.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
fishmike
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7/25/2018  12:12 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:Burke played ok D last year. His size is always going to be an issue, but it's not fair to compare him to Nate Robinson who he's a good 4 inches taller than. He shot 36% from 3 which is around average(I think, correct me if I'm wrong!) His 50% FG% last season was very good. If he keeps it up we could(and have in the past) do alot worse than Burke. Develop Frank into a 3 and D SG and you are all set with your starting guards.
Burke also has a 6'5 wingspan.
thats not really that good. Burke can be part of a good defensive team. You will have to hide certain aspects but you do that with everyone. Even the historically best defensive teams have had guys on the floor who are not star defensive players.

Burke totally comes down to his shooting and effort on D. I think the D will be fine... enough. If he's highly eff% he will be great. If he's shooting 50% like he did last year he will be the started and deservedly so. Fingers crossed. This would hugely help this rebuild

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Nalod
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7/25/2018  2:03 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:Burke played ok D last year. His size is always going to be an issue, but it's not fair to compare him to Nate Robinson who he's a good 4 inches taller than. He shot 36% from 3 which is around average(I think, correct me if I'm wrong!) His 50% FG% last season was very good. If he keeps it up we could(and have in the past) do alot worse than Burke. Develop Frank into a 3 and D SG and you are all set with your starting guards.
Burke also has a 6'5 wingspan.

He's had them wings for his whole career now. Its not like he just grew them out.
I like burke. But its not on me, its on Fiz.

TheGame
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7/29/2018  11:58 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/29/2018  12:04 PM
I think there is no question that, while he may call his own number a tad too much, offensively Trey Burke is our best pg. The issue is defense. Admittedly, he has improved. He puts far more work in ball denial and staying with his man. But the bottom line is he is just to short to really be anything but a liability on defense. To be his size and play defense, you have to bring a certain level of toughness to impose your will on the guy you are defending. Trey does not play at that level of defense and guys just shoot over him. Guys like Chris Paul have strong hands and play defense with a certain level of intensity and anticipation that allow them to impact the game defensively despite their height disadvantages. Trey is not that type of defender. Trey is better as a sixth man where he can play against less talented PGs and he can focus on doing what he does best, which is score.
Trust the Process
Trey Burke playing @ the Legendary Dyckman Summer League Tournament

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