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Knicks/Wolves have had preliminary trade talks regarding Butler/Maybe Bogus
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newyorknewyork
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7/18/2018  12:32 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
TheGame wrote:
Uptown wrote:
TheGame wrote:You guys are smoking crack. I would give them Hardaway and maybe a second round pick. That is it. Dude is leaving and they have nonleverage and the dude is damn near 30 years old.

And you are smoking crack if you think Minny would except that package for an allstar. Fans always trying to rip off the other team in a trade!!! I dont see a trade happening anyway....

Why would we trade Knox? Makes no sense. Trust me, we wait until the summer and when Butler tells them he is walking they would be happy with that package. My you change it for Hardaway and a protect 1st rd pick but I would not give more than that unless they wanted Trier, Dotson, or baker. Now I would do Kanter and Hardaway because we are not resigning Kanter anyway.

If Jimmy Butler was willing to sign an extension with the Knicks as a handshake agreement to the trade ( the only way any team would trade for him), and the cost was Knox plus some type of salary match, and Zinger is not involved, the Knicks should do it.

Knox is raw and has upside, but unproven. His stock is high now, that might not be true later. It's hard to say.

The Knicks would also have to part with a first round pick, and this is the sticking point. The sticking point has to be the kind of protections on said pick. I think that would be the deal breaker, not Knox.

Jimmy Butler can drag this team into the playoffs. It wouldn't last long there, but he could likely do it. For Dolan, that would have some value outside of just the players.

The problem is Jimmy Butler will be 29 in September. Adding him means we need to contend over the next few seasons to maximize his prime. Will we have the pieces to do so? Also he has the years in to command 35-40mil correct? Can we afford to pay him that and still build a contender? Knox may or may not ever reach Butler's level. But he give the Knicks more flexibility to add a lot of talent while he is on rookie scale.

The best bet is after this draft. Packaging THjr & Lee if not moved already and a future draft pick for an upgrade. If we are able to land another high end lotto pick, and sign a stud via FA(Irving?). Then package THjr with a pick for another piece. That would probably be our best bet to add 3 premium pieces to go along with our young core.

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smackeddog
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7/18/2018  2:46 AM
Never going to happen- remember Thibs is in charge, so no way he'd want anything to do with Tim Jr or Kanter. Also it's in his interests to make sure they make the playoffs this season, even if Butler is planning on leaving after it
LegendD
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7/18/2018  5:40 AM
Butler only for THJ and Lee or Kanter.
Untouchable payers: KP, Knox, Frank, Robinson
franco12
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7/18/2018  9:25 AM
If I am minnesota, I think there is a lot to like about THjr - yes, he may not be this awesome defender - but he is younger, that fits in better with their window (and ours for that matter) and has a contract for a few more years, which if you are worried about getting a FA, isn't a bad thing.
Allanfan20
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7/18/2018  9:39 AM
Wise up Knicks. Unless you are ONLY trading Timmy and Lee for Butler than I wouldn’t do it. I’ll include this years first rou der too. Otherwise, he’s a free agent. I would far rather deal our expirings for Melo and cut him right away and wait to get Butler and Irving next Summer. We would have a pretty complete team afterwards.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
martin
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7/18/2018  10:43 AM
Allanfan20 wrote:Wise up Knicks. Unless you are ONLY trading Timmy and Lee for Butler than I wouldn’t do it. I’ll include this years first rou der too. Otherwise, he’s a free agent. I would far rather deal our expirings for Melo and cut him right away and wait to get Butler and Irving next Summer. We would have a pretty complete team afterwards.

Why? I know they would ask but why would you include that 1st round pick for this year? Knicks not gonna be good. Maybe top 15 protected? Something.

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Knicksfan
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7/18/2018  11:21 AM
martin wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:Wise up Knicks. Unless you are ONLY trading Timmy and Lee for Butler than I wouldn’t do it. I’ll include this years first rou der too. Otherwise, he’s a free agent. I would far rather deal our expirings for Melo and cut him right away and wait to get Butler and Irving next Summer. We would have a pretty complete team afterwards.

Why? I know they would ask but why would you include that 1st round pick for this year? Knicks not gonna be good. Maybe top 15 protected? Something.

That pick should be untradeable. I understand the need to give something, especially in the scenario where we only give up Timmy and Lee, which is IMO highly unlikely.

I don't know whats the fascination of joining the NBA craze of getting stars right now. So many crybabies stars that pout about wanting to play somewhere else? Let them! NY is finally, for the first time in decades, with a clear and possible path to relevance and in their own terms.

Porzingis is a true young star on his way back from an injury. Frank is a teenager that already has elite defense and has shown signs on offense. Knox is another teenager with so much potential. Robinson is also raw but with full potential. Hardaway and Hezonja have the chance to take their games to a next level that would make them very valuable as both are also young. And there is no pressure to win next season, which could result in another lottery pick and another great young talent for us. Let this move forward!

GSW will probably win another championship next year and then the NBA will change again with free agency. We will have lots of young talent and the ability to get a star without a trade. Just keep the pace and avoid the empty temptations and yes, Butler is an empty temptation.

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MS
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7/18/2018  11:40 AM
Watching Frank in summer league, he doesn't look like a special player. He's a capable defender, not a lock down defender, he's passive, lack athleticism and isn't going to lead a team.

The Knicks have attractive pieces in Knox, Robinson and KP is a tremendous question mark. If you can land one of the best wings in the NBA you do it. You can center the package Hardaway, whose a good not great shooting guard

Option 1: THJR, Lance Thomas, Frank
-Clear Salary

Option 2:Lee, Lance, Frank, First Round Pick
-lose Lee's salary, still have the option to move Hardaway, but you're pick will likely jump to 12-15 as the Knicks would be a playoff team with

Burke/Mudiay
Hardaway Jr.
Butler/Mario
Knox
Kanter/Noah

Having Irving's buddy in place with an emerging talent in Knox and KP on the docket get's us Irving.

Knixkik
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7/18/2018  11:57 AM
MS wrote:Watching Frank in summer league, he doesn't look like a special player. He's a capable defender, not a lock down defender, he's passive, lack athleticism and isn't going to lead a team.

The Knicks have attractive pieces in Knox, Robinson and KP is a tremendous question mark. If you can land one of the best wings in the NBA you do it. You can center the package Hardaway, whose a good not great shooting guard

Option 1: THJR, Lance Thomas, Frank
-Clear Salary

Option 2:Lee, Lance, Frank, First Round Pick
-lose Lee's salary, still have the option to move Hardaway, but you're pick will likely jump to 12-15 as the Knicks would be a playoff team with

Burke/Mudiay
Hardaway Jr.
Butler/Mario
Knox
Kanter/Noah

Having Irving's buddy in place with an emerging talent in Knox and KP on the docket get's us Irving.

I'm with you. Frank is probably on the table here, but i'm really not jumping at a trade by any means. Porzingis and Knox are essentially untouchable. They are 2 guys to build around. KP is not a question mark though, he is established. Health is a gamble, but that's the case with all players to a certain extent. We need to see what we have in Robinson, he could be a real gem. Ntilikina is definitely part of this core, but not untouchable by any means. He's a nice player who has upside to be a really good 2-way role player, but probably lacks the personality and aggressiveness to be a star. But the hope is to add a max guy to the core of Porzingis, Knox, Ntilikina, Hardaway, and Robinson. It's a really promising core for the first time in a long time.

smackeddog
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7/18/2018  11:58 AM
MS wrote:Watching Frank in summer league, he doesn't look like a special player. He's a capable defender, not a lock down defender, he's passive, lack athleticism and isn't going to lead a team.

It was 2 games, the 2nd of which was completely different to the first. Give him another year or two and lets see how he improves and develops. Not every player needs to be special- we need effective players too.

knicks1248
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7/18/2018  12:00 PM
he's not signing on to play with a bunch of young players, he clearly had issues with their work ethic in chicago and mini,

taj, 14 mill sign through 19/2020
Jimmy 14 mill

for

lee
noah
frank

ES
MS
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7/18/2018  12:13 PM
It's summer league. Second year players need to dominate. Josh Hart looked liked Dwayne Wade out there. Effective is good, but an All-Star is an All-Star.

KP is a health question mark, no one is debating he's special and a game changer. If next offseason comes, Klay goes to LA, Durant goes to LA or Philly, Butler could go to the Clippers, the Knicks could get left holding the bag again. I like our chances with KP, Knox and Butler. NYC is NYC and Kyrie needs a reason to leave Boston and Butler is it. You develop Robinson and see what you have.

BigDaddyG
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7/18/2018  12:14 PM
knicks1248 wrote:he's not signing on to play with a bunch of young players, he clearly had issues with their work ethic in chicago and mini,

taj, 14 mill sign through 19/2020
Jimmy 14 mill

for

lee
noah
frank


That deal won't get it done. Add in a protected first, take out Noah, put in Kanter.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
BigDaddyG
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7/18/2018  12:21 PM
smackeddog wrote:
MS wrote:Watching Frank in summer league, he doesn't look like a special player. He's a capable defender, not a lock down defender, he's passive, lack athleticism and isn't going to lead a team.

It was 2 games, the 2nd of which was completely different to the first. Give him another year or two and lets see how he improves and develops. Not every player needs to be special- we need effective players too.


Yeah, he was anything but passive in game two. Plus the athleticism statement is overblow. Does he guard his position? Does he get into the lane when he puts his mind to it? The answer is yes, so he's athletic enough. That said, I think I would deal Frank in a package for Jimmy Butler. Butler is one of the top 20 players in the league. And he defends.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
CrushAlot
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7/18/2018  12:34 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/18/2018  12:35 PM
smackeddog wrote:
MS wrote:Watching Frank in summer league, he doesn't look like a special player. He's a capable defender, not a lock down defender, he's passive, lack athleticism and isn't going to lead a team.

It was 2 games, the 2nd of which was completely different to the first. Give him another year or two and lets see how he improves and develops. Not every player needs to be special- we need effective players too.


I think he can be effective. I don't think he can be a starting point guard.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
fishmike
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7/18/2018  12:35 PM
martin wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:Wise up Knicks. Unless you are ONLY trading Timmy and Lee for Butler than I wouldn’t do it. I’ll include this years first rou der too. Otherwise, he’s a free agent. I would far rather deal our expirings for Melo and cut him right away and wait to get Butler and Irving next Summer. We would have a pretty complete team afterwards.

Why? I know they would ask but why would you include that 1st round pick for this year? Knicks not gonna be good. Maybe top 15 protected? Something.

Butler isnt young and has some mileage but he's a very very good player. If I am Sota I dont think I take less than Hardaway/Dotson/2019 first rounder top 3 protected and unprotected following year if that happens.

Likely Butler has another 4-5 years playing at a very high level.

Butler also avg. about 5 assists. He's a fantastic ball mover. The question is if you give that up what does a Knick team look like moving forward?
PG Frank/Burke
SG Butler/Lee/Baker
SF Knox/Lance
PF KP/Mario/Hicks
C Kanter/Robinson/Kornet

The next question is can the Knicks clean enough off the books to look like this the following year:
PG Irving
SG Frank
SF Butler
PF Knox
C KP
bench: Robinson, rest is gonna be thin but Butler (30) and Irving (27) would be the old guys on a team looking to challenge in the East. Maybe...?

Gut feeling is avoid all this and continue to stockpile long athletic skilled players. Develop our own talent. Bring in guys like Burke, Mudiay and Mario for this staff to look at and see if they can salvage. Lock up good draft prospects like Dotson and Mitchell to long and very cheap contracts and just stay on the path they are on. I personally like the latter... I like this young group and want to see how this staff looking with them before trying to bring in a couple max guys from other teams.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Nalod
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7/18/2018  12:41 PM
Minny has Townes. They don't want Kanter or noah.
Frank should dominate? been 10 weeks since the end of reg season and he is still a year younger than all of last years rookies.
He can dominate on defense. He makes others better.
Glue guy now, I think he can get a lot better.
As for Butler I don't think he fits our timeline. Simple.
CrushAlot
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7/18/2018  12:42 PM
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:Wise up Knicks. Unless you are ONLY trading Timmy and Lee for Butler than I wouldn’t do it. I’ll include this years first rou der too. Otherwise, he’s a free agent. I would far rather deal our expirings for Melo and cut him right away and wait to get Butler and Irving next Summer. We would have a pretty complete team afterwards.

Why? I know they would ask but why would you include that 1st round pick for this year? Knicks not gonna be good. Maybe top 15 protected? Something.

Butler isnt young and has some mileage but he's a very very good player. If I am Sota I dont think I take less than Hardaway/Dotson/2019 first rounder top 3 protected and unprotected following year if that happens.

Likely Butler has another 4-5 years playing at a very high level.

Butler also avg. about 5 assists. He's a fantastic ball mover. The question is if you give that up what does a Knick team look like moving forward?
PG Frank/Burke
SG Butler/Lee/Baker
SF Knox/Lance
PF KP/Mario/Hicks
C Kanter/Robinson/Kornet

The next question is can the Knicks clean enough off the books to look like this the following year:
PG Irving
SG Frank
SF Butler
PF Knox
C KP
bench: Robinson, rest is gonna be thin but Butler (30) and Irving (27) would be the old guys on a team looking to challenge in the East. Maybe...?

Gut feeling is avoid all this and continue to stockpile long athletic skilled players
. Develop our own talent. Bring in guys like Burke, Mudiay and Mario for this staff to look at and see if they can salvage. Lock up good draft prospects like Dotson and Mitchell to long and very cheap contracts and just stay on the path they are on. I personally like the latter... I like this young group and want to see how this staff looking with them before trying to bring in a couple max guys from other teams.

This. I like Butler but he has played for Thibs for almost his entire career and will be turning thirty. Deng, Noah, Rose etc. were not much after a long run with Thibs. I would love if the Knicks used Kanter and some of their other expiring deals to take back a player or two from teams chasing cap space if they can get a pick or two. The Knicks should have a really good pick this year. Mario might blossom and his age fits with the core. Locking in on free agency or chasing a star is not my preferred method of building this team at this point.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
BigDaddyG
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7/18/2018  12:44 PM
Nalod wrote:Minny has Townes. They don't want Kanter or noah.
Frank should dominate? been 10 weeks since the end of reg season and he is still a year younger than all of last years rookies.
He can dominate on defense. He makes others better.
Glue guy now, I think he can get a lot better.
As for Butler I don't think he fits our timeline. Simple.

Kanter frees up money as an expired and helps make salaries match.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
BigDaddyG
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7/18/2018  12:48 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
MS wrote:Watching Frank in summer league, he doesn't look like a special player. He's a capable defender, not a lock down defender, he's passive, lack athleticism and isn't going to lead a team.

It was 2 games, the 2nd of which was completely different to the first. Give him another year or two and lets see how he improves and develops. Not every player needs to be special- we need effective players too.


I think he can be effective. I don't think he can be a starting point guard.

Sure he can. The idea of "point guard" has shifted the way the idea of the traditional big man has. Is Draymond a "point guard." How about Jokic? Or Simmons? None of those guys are traditional PGs, but they shoulder yhr burden of running their respective offenses.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Knicks/Wolves have had preliminary trade talks regarding Butler/Maybe Bogus

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