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what would it take to get Lillard
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knicks1248
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7/6/2018  9:37 AM
Cartman718 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I don't have a lot faith in us nabbing an All star if we finish the season with 25 to 30 wins. We just seen this movie play out 3 yrs ago when the only guys we got we're lee, over paid for NOAH, kOQ, and dwill, and we had enough to sign a max player,which none came calling.

We need 2 or 3 All stars to contend, and you need all stars to attract other all stars. Our young players have to play at the level the Celtics and Sixers youngsters played at..

who says we need to contend right now...we are finally building the right away. Pretty sure that Perry and Mills and Fizdale are not interested in shortchanging youth development by trading away assets. If no one joins from FA class of 2019, then FO will be content to let youngsters develop for another year. I do expect this team to be very competitive in the 2020-2021 season regardless of who signs in summer 2020. By then, our team would have matured enough to be like the young Celtics team we see today. That in itself would attract stars.

It's not like the Celtics team had all-stars in their lineup when Kyrie requested to be traded and was ok with going to Celtics. At least we have one bonafide one in KP, the others will develop.

A lot will be base on how these young guys play and how fiz develops these players. While you may be ok with skipping over 2019 FA class I highly doubt that's the FO thinking, as they have clearly stated over and over that 2019 is the yr.

Now unless you want more Noah, baker and THJ type contracts doled out, we're going to need to have a very productive season, or your going to over pay for 2nd tier talent.

I wouldn't trade for lillard, but i would cj

ES
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newyorknewyork
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7/6/2018  9:43 AM
Cartman718 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I don't have a lot faith in us nabbing an All star if we finish the season with 25 to 30 wins. We just seen this movie play out 3 yrs ago when the only guys we got we're lee, over paid for NOAH, kOQ, and dwill, and we had enough to sign a max player,which none came calling.

We need 2 or 3 All stars to contend, and you need all stars to attract other all stars. Our young players have to play at the level the Celtics and Sixers youngsters played at..

who says we need to contend right now...we are finally building the right away. Pretty sure that Perry and Mills and Fizdale are not interested in shortchanging youth development by trading away assets. If no one joins from FA class of 2019, then FO will be content to let youngsters develop for another year. I do expect this team to be very competitive in the 2020-2021 season regardless of who signs in summer 2020. By then, our team would have matured enough to be like the young Celtics team we see today. That in itself would attract stars.

It's not like the Celtics team had all-stars in their lineup when Kyrie requested to be traded and was ok with going to Celtics. At least we have one bonafide one in KP, the others will develop.

25-30 wins and then we would be adding a lotto pick and KP back into the fold for the next season. Knicks would then hold 4 drafted lotto picks, Tim Hardaway jr and cap for another solid player if they struck out on landing a superstar. As well as look to retain Burke, Mario, Williams, Kornet if they deem worthy of keeping. Knicks would then have high odds of making the playoffs in 2019-2020 season. With a roster of 20-24 yr olds.

From there, if a player decided he wanted to come. Creating the space to sign him wouldn't be to much of an issue with movable 24-27 yrs old that are contributing to a playoff team.

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newyorknewyork
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7/6/2018  9:59 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I don't have a lot faith in us nabbing an All star if we finish the season with 25 to 30 wins. We just seen this movie play out 3 yrs ago when the only guys we got we're lee, over paid for NOAH, kOQ, and dwill, and we had enough to sign a max player,which none came calling.

We need 2 or 3 All stars to contend, and you need all stars to attract other all stars. Our young players have to play at the level the Celtics and Sixers youngsters played at..

who says we need to contend right now...we are finally building the right away. Pretty sure that Perry and Mills and Fizdale are not interested in shortchanging youth development by trading away assets. If no one joins from FA class of 2019, then FO will be content to let youngsters develop for another year. I do expect this team to be very competitive in the 2020-2021 season regardless of who signs in summer 2020. By then, our team would have matured enough to be like the young Celtics team we see today. That in itself would attract stars.

It's not like the Celtics team had all-stars in their lineup when Kyrie requested to be traded and was ok with going to Celtics. At least we have one bonafide one in KP, the others will develop.

A lot will be base on how these young guys play and how fiz develops these players. While you may be ok with skipping over 2019 FA class I highly doubt that's the FO thinking, as they have clearly stated over and over that 2019 is the yr.

Now unless you want more Noah, baker and THJ type contracts doled out, we're going to need to have a very productive season, or your going to over pay for 2nd tier talent.

I wouldn't trade for lillard, but i would cj

The thing is you don't HAVE to pay for the 2nd tier talent. Knicks didn't HAVE to sign Noah or Thjr. If they actually stayed patient and kept their money until something better came along... Should have been eating 1-2 yr contracts in reality for draft picks and building up assets. Demarre Carroll could have been had to play SF last season for Toronto's draft pick which would have netted us the #29 pick in the draft. The money used on Noah and Lee could have been used similarly.

The extra assets created from these moves to go along with the lotto picks like KP, Frank, Knox and the diamond mining of Dotson, Burke, Williams, Kornet, Robinson, Baker, Mudiay, Herzonia. To go along with actual available cap space from these contract clearing out. Could all have been used to build up a talented team.

Making moves to win now prevented that.

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arkrud
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7/6/2018  10:16 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/6/2018  10:17 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I don't have a lot faith in us nabbing an All star if we finish the season with 25 to 30 wins. We just seen this movie play out 3 yrs ago when the only guys we got we're lee, over paid for NOAH, kOQ, and dwill, and we had enough to sign a max player,which none came calling.

We need 2 or 3 All stars to contend, and you need all stars to attract other all stars. Our young players have to play at the level the Celtics and Sixers youngsters played at..

who says we need to contend right now...we are finally building the right away. Pretty sure that Perry and Mills and Fizdale are not interested in shortchanging youth development by trading away assets. If no one joins from FA class of 2019, then FO will be content to let youngsters develop for another year. I do expect this team to be very competitive in the 2020-2021 season regardless of who signs in summer 2020. By then, our team would have matured enough to be like the young Celtics team we see today. That in itself would attract stars.

It's not like the Celtics team had all-stars in their lineup when Kyrie requested to be traded and was ok with going to Celtics. At least we have one bonafide one in KP, the others will develop.

A lot will be base on how these young guys play and how fiz develops these players. While you may be ok with skipping over 2019 FA class I highly doubt that's the FO thinking, as they have clearly stated over and over that 2019 is the yr.

Now unless you want more Noah, baker and THJ type contracts doled out, we're going to need to have a very productive season, or your going to over pay for 2nd tier talent.

I wouldn't trade for lillard, but i would cj

Lilard is one star and not from the top 10 and you said we need 3...
So how this trade will accomplish getting 3 stars?
All FA will see that Knicks leadership is idiotic as ever and team has no depth, no balance, no plan, and no clue.
All NBA stars have agents who can easily see what team is doing right things.
Of course FA like Melo, Marbs, and such who are interested in branding and big markets will come but what it has to do with winning and fans?

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Nalod
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7/6/2018  10:26 AM
First off I don't get why so many are that sure that THjr won't play better. The kid makes avg money at the two and had a big learning cure going from basic role player to the second, then first option. He has still much to learn but he has the talent and the motor.
Is is a sure thing? Now. He is making Clarkson and Crabbe Money. The kid showed flashes of pretty good stuff last season. Consistancy is something that all great/good players have to learn and how to even their game out. This is what I see and hope for. He has to do other things when he is not on fire. The team last year was a mess at times but there was some very good stretches. Im not going by stats, What my eye saw. His biggest problem is he forces things instead of letting the game come to him.

As for Lillard, why would Portland trade him unless they feel like they can't win with him and the talent around him. Basically getting him would be the same thing. We'd have a "star" but burn 2-3 major assets that any one could turn out to be an allstar.
There are teams with more talent/assets that should make a play for him. We are just not in that situation presently.
True we need 2-3 all stars to win a chip. We are still in the acquiring mode. Boston did this for a few years via Trades for picks, Developing thru the draft, Developing thru trades, free agency, good draft manipulation. No one move defined this current team and yet look how much turn over they have had even in the last two years. Imagine if they could have traded a very healthy Isiah Thomas before he got hurt?

Knick1248 wants to win and win now. We all do. Just remember there is nothing in the past that determines the future. New faces, new decisions and new FO. Dolan is not starphuching. Its all ahead. Construction of rosters are statistical in nature and we will have disappointments as do all teams, but increase the opportunities as we have you create "luck". Trade for sure things like Lillard you get a hell of a player in his prime but you decrease the opportutnities going forward. That was the Melo era. when you have to bank on nit wits like JR Smith, your not going very far.

GustavBahler
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7/6/2018  10:44 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I don't have a lot faith in us nabbing an All star if we finish the season with 25 to 30 wins. We just seen this movie play out 3 yrs ago when the only guys we got we're lee, over paid for NOAH, kOQ, and dwill, and we had enough to sign a max player,which none came calling.

We need 2 or 3 All stars to contend, and you need all stars to attract other all stars. Our young players have to play at the level the Celtics and Sixers youngsters played at..

who says we need to contend right now...we are finally building the right away. Pretty sure that Perry and Mills and Fizdale are not interested in shortchanging youth development by trading away assets. If no one joins from FA class of 2019, then FO will be content to let youngsters develop for another year. I do expect this team to be very competitive in the 2020-2021 season regardless of who signs in summer 2020. By then, our team would have matured enough to be like the young Celtics team we see today. That in itself would attract stars.

It's not like the Celtics team had all-stars in their lineup when Kyrie requested to be traded and was ok with going to Celtics. At least we have one bonafide one in KP, the others will develop.

A lot will be base on how these young guys play and how fiz develops these players. While you may be ok with skipping over 2019 FA class I highly doubt that's the FO thinking, as they have clearly stated over and over that 2019 is the yr.

Now unless you want more Noah, baker and THJ type contracts doled out, we're going to need to have a very productive season, or your going to over pay for 2nd tier talent.

I wouldn't trade for lillard, but i would cj

Yup. Knicks fans, mgmt, even the media might be high on our draft picks, undrafted signings. Stars want to see results. Also right about Fizdale. Dont believe anyone expects a contender at this stage. FAs want to see in part, how much Fizdale can get out of the talent he has on the roster this season.

Enough young, talented, players on this squad right now for Fizdale to show what he can do as a developer of talent.

Lillard belongs on a team that wants to knock out GS. No sense paying Lillard, or any other big star (maybe on a different timetable) for a season that is mostly about developing players. Not tanking, building something from the ground up. Waiting on KP to come back 100 percent.

BigDaddyG
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7/6/2018  11:00 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I don't have a lot faith in us nabbing an All star if we finish the season with 25 to 30 wins. We just seen this movie play out 3 yrs ago when the only guys we got we're lee, over paid for NOAH, kOQ, and dwill, and we had enough to sign a max player,which none came calling.

We need 2 or 3 All stars to contend, and you need all stars to attract other all stars. Our young players have to play at the level the Celtics and Sixers youngsters played at..

who says we need to contend right now...we are finally building the right away. Pretty sure that Perry and Mills and Fizdale are not interested in shortchanging youth development by trading away assets. If no one joins from FA class of 2019, then FO will be content to let youngsters develop for another year. I do expect this team to be very competitive in the 2020-2021 season regardless of who signs in summer 2020. By then, our team would have matured enough to be like the young Celtics team we see today. That in itself would attract stars.

It's not like the Celtics team had all-stars in their lineup when Kyrie requested to be traded and was ok with going to Celtics. At least we have one bonafide one in KP, the others will develop.

A lot will be base on how these young guys play and how fiz develops these players. While you may be ok with skipping over 2019 FA class I highly doubt that's the FO thinking, as they have clearly stated over and over that 2019 is the yr.

Now unless you want more Noah, baker and THJ type contracts doled out, we're going to need to have a very productive season, or your going to over pay for 2nd tier talent.

I wouldn't trade for lillard, but i would cj

Yup. Knicks fans, mgmt, even the media might be high on our draft picks, undrafted signings. Stars want to see results. Also right about Fizdale. Dont believe anyone expects a contender at this stage. FAs want to see in part, how much Fizdale can get out of the talent he has on the roster this season.

Enough young, talented, players on this squad right now for Fizdale to show what he can do as a developer of talent.

Lillard belongs on a team that wants to knock out GS. No sense paying Lillard, or any other big star (maybe on a different timetable) for a season that is mostly about developing players. Not tanking, building something from the ground up. Waiting on KP to come back 100 percent.


Agree. I couldn't endorse a trade without knowing which we have lined up for FA next season. PG's are important, but history had shown that Lil men aren't capable of leading you to championships on their own. The few examples we have in recent history (Billups, Isaih Thomas, Curry) we're on extremely deep clubs. You could also make that weren't even the MVPs on those clubs. Bringing in Dame now would seem like Starbury part 2. I'd rather hold course on a rebuild.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Gudris
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7/6/2018  11:00 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I don't have a lot faith in us nabbing an All star if we finish the season with 25 to 30 wins. We just seen this movie play out 3 yrs ago when the only guys we got we're lee, over paid for NOAH, kOQ, and dwill, and we had enough to sign a max player,which none came calling.

We need 2 or 3 All stars to contend, and you need all stars to attract other all stars. Our young players have to play at the level the Celtics and Sixers youngsters played at..

who says we need to contend right now...we are finally building the right away. Pretty sure that Perry and Mills and Fizdale are not interested in shortchanging youth development by trading away assets. If no one joins from FA class of 2019, then FO will be content to let youngsters develop for another year. I do expect this team to be very competitive in the 2020-2021 season regardless of who signs in summer 2020. By then, our team would have matured enough to be like the young Celtics team we see today. That in itself would attract stars.

It's not like the Celtics team had all-stars in their lineup when Kyrie requested to be traded and was ok with going to Celtics. At least we have one bonafide one in KP, the others will develop.

A lot will be base on how these young guys play and how fiz develops these players. While you may be ok with skipping over 2019 FA class I highly doubt that's the FO thinking, as they have clearly stated over and over that 2019 is the yr.

Now unless you want more Noah, baker and THJ type contracts doled out, we're going to need to have a very productive season, or your going to over pay for 2nd tier talent.

I wouldn't trade for lillard, but i would cj

Yup. Knicks fans, mgmt, even the media might be high on our draft picks, undrafted signings. Stars want to see results. Also right about Fizdale. Dont believe anyone expects a contender at this stage. FAs want to see in part, how much Fizdale can get out of the talent he has on the roster this season.

Enough young, talented, players on this squad right now for Fizdale to show what he can do as a developer of talent.

Lillard belongs on a team that wants to knock out GS. No sense paying Lillard, or any other big star (maybe on a different timetable) for a season that is mostly about developing players. Not tanking, building something from the ground up. Waiting on KP to come back 100 percent.


agree 100%
fishmike
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7/6/2018  11:01 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I don't have a lot faith in us nabbing an All star if we finish the season with 25 to 30 wins. We just seen this movie play out 3 yrs ago when the only guys we got we're lee, over paid for NOAH, kOQ, and dwill, and we had enough to sign a max player,which none came calling.

We need 2 or 3 All stars to contend, and you need all stars to attract other all stars. Our young players have to play at the level the Celtics and Sixers youngsters played at..

who says we need to contend right now...we are finally building the right away. Pretty sure that Perry and Mills and Fizdale are not interested in shortchanging youth development by trading away assets. If no one joins from FA class of 2019, then FO will be content to let youngsters develop for another year. I do expect this team to be very competitive in the 2020-2021 season regardless of who signs in summer 2020. By then, our team would have matured enough to be like the young Celtics team we see today. That in itself would attract stars.

It's not like the Celtics team had all-stars in their lineup when Kyrie requested to be traded and was ok with going to Celtics. At least we have one bonafide one in KP, the others will develop.

A lot will be base on how these young guys play and how fiz develops these players. While you may be ok with skipping over 2019 FA class I highly doubt that's the FO thinking, as they have clearly stated over and over that 2019 is the yr.

Now unless you want more Noah, baker and THJ type contracts doled out, we're going to need to have a very productive season, or your going to over pay for 2nd tier talent.

I wouldn't trade for lillard, but i would cj

Yup. Knicks fans, mgmt, even the media might be high on our draft picks, undrafted signings. Stars want to see results. Also right about Fizdale. Dont believe anyone expects a contender at this stage. FAs want to see in part, how much Fizdale can get out of the talent he has on the roster this season.

Enough young, talented, players on this squad right now for Fizdale to show what he can do as a developer of talent.

Lillard belongs on a team that wants to knock out GS. No sense paying Lillard, or any other big star (maybe on a different timetable) for a season that is mostly about developing players. Not tanking, building something from the ground up. Waiting on KP to come back 100 percent.

paying them is OK. NBA talent is pricey. The danger zone is when you trade the future. Lillard is just like Kyrie IMO, although I favor Irving and think he's better. If you can sign him its a no brainer, but Im not trading picks and young guns to bring this guy in. DL is older also so he would be 28 next year... doesnt make the most sense, but you have to be aggressive when you have the chance to add top talent with caps space being the only asset used.

Remember the Knicks can pay all these guys. IF Frank, KP and Knox all turn into stars MSG can pay them all, so long as we are winning. However we are then talking about keeping our own "stars" so Ill curb my enthusiasm as our all star in his rookie deal just tore his ACL.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
knicks1248
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7/6/2018  11:26 AM
Losing 55+ games doesn't bode well for anyone.

You may think (great another high pick) but losing that many games means the youngsters showed no improvement, Knox and Mitchell are major projects, KP is a shell of himself, fiz is no better than JH, mills and perry can't draft well(especially if players drafted after knox turn out better) and you lose faith in them picking good players.

who care about keeping and adding young guys if they are not getting better.

I hope and believe FIZ is the truth, I don't think 42 wins is a stretch(has the east every been weaker), and it will mean progress is happening.

Miami won 44 games without a single all star and cast offs like Onlynyk, Waiters, richards as their starters, it was mostly coaching and system. That's what i expect from this staff

ES
newyorker4ever
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7/6/2018  11:47 AM
People still believing things that come out of SAS' mouth...lol
StarksEwing1
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7/6/2018  12:06 PM
knicks1248 wrote:I don't have a lot faith in us nabbing an All star if we finish the season with 25 to 30 wins. We just seen this movie play out 3 yrs ago when the only guys we got we're lee, over paid for NOAH, kOQ, and dwill, and we had enough to sign a max player,which none came calling.

We need 2 or 3 All stars to contend, and you need all stars to attract other all stars. Our young players have to play at the level the Celtics and Sixers youngsters played at..

The Knicks arent changing their plan. They arent trading picks or youth because it makes little sense right now. They are waiting for next summer when we have more cap space. I understand you hate draft picks and building with youth but thats the way it is no w so better get used to it
smackeddog
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7/6/2018  12:25 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I don't have a lot faith in us nabbing an All star if we finish the season with 25 to 30 wins. We just seen this movie play out 3 yrs ago when the only guys we got we're lee, over paid for NOAH, kOQ, and dwill, and we had enough to sign a max player,which none came calling.

We need 2 or 3 All stars to contend, and you need all stars to attract other all stars. Our young players have to play at the level the Celtics and Sixers youngsters played at..

The Knicks arent changing their plan. They arent trading picks or youth because it makes little sense right now. They are waiting for next summer when we have more cap space. I understand you hate draft picks and building with youth but thats the way it is no w so better get used to it

Yep, those who want to do this kind of move can just rewatch youtube videos of the Marbury trade and the Melo trade to see how it goes.

newyorknewyork
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7/6/2018  1:01 PM
knicks1248 wrote:Losing 55+ games doesn't bode well for anyone.

You may think (great another high pick) but losing that many games means the youngsters showed no improvement, Knox and Mitchell are major projects, KP is a shell of himself, fiz is no better than JH, mills and perry can't draft well(especially if players drafted after knox turn out better) and you lose faith in them picking good players.

who care about keeping and adding young guys if they are not getting better.

I hope and believe FIZ is the truth, I don't think 42 wins is a stretch(has the east every been weaker), and it will mean progress is happening.

Miami won 44 games without a single all star and cast offs like Onlynyk, Waiters, richards as their starters, it was mostly coaching and system. That's what i expect from this staff

You say the same things but run away when challenged with real logic and reasoning every time. Mia is stuck in mediocrity. They aren't close to being contenders, They lack blue chip talent. Don't have much cap room.

They are very well coached and have a good program. Yet they havent produced any of the results you claim a team in there position should have. No star players are forcing there way to MIA, they have no blue chip talent. They had to overpay Tyler Johnson to retain him and he is 2nd/3rd tier. Waiters, JJ, Olynk are all 2nd/3rd tier players. Had to give their #16 pick to the Suns from the Dragic deal.

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
dwiley20
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7/6/2018  1:26 PM
martin wrote:
dwiley20 wrote:2 future 1 rounders Frank, Thardaway Jr, And Knox

ban

I answered the question. Dont mean i will pull that trigger SMH

TripleThreat
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7/6/2018  2:02 PM
Nalod wrote:First off I don't get why so many are that sure that THjr won't play better.


A) His history of being a low IQ stupid/selfish chucker far outweighs the half season in Atlanta where he did really well

B) In the half season he did well, he did so gunning for a new contract and getting volume looks because the team he was on had injury woes/roster attrition over time

C) He is outside his prime developmental window. Would it be impossible for him to break out? No, anything is possible. But it simply is not likely. At some point during your third full season in the NBA (barring massive injury or some glitch in playing time opportunity), you will tend to be right around what you've shown up to that point for the rest of your career.

There's "young" in life terms. There's "young" in career times outside of pro sports. Then there is "young" in professional sports.

Frank N is very young in real life terms. When he is 22, he will still be young in life terms and even if he was something different like an accountant. But for the NBA, he'd be running into his 3rd/4th year, and his developmental cycle will have likely peaked. Does it mean a player can't learn new skill sets? No, I'm not saying that. But your day to day impact will likely hit it's ceiling.

Do you know why Bill Belichick and Billy Beane are so successful, despite each having misses as well as hits? They look realistically at what a player can do now, not what they hope he can be.

knicks1248
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7/6/2018  2:04 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Losing 55+ games doesn't bode well for anyone.

You may think (great another high pick) but losing that many games means the youngsters showed no improvement, Knox and Mitchell are major projects, KP is a shell of himself, fiz is no better than JH, mills and perry can't draft well(especially if players drafted after knox turn out better) and you lose faith in them picking good players.

who care about keeping and adding young guys if they are not getting better.

I hope and believe FIZ is the truth, I don't think 42 wins is a stretch(has the east every been weaker), and it will mean progress is happening.

Miami won 44 games without a single all star and cast offs like Onlynyk, Waiters, richards as their starters, it was mostly coaching and system. That's what i expect from this staff

You say the same things but run away when challenged with real logic and reasoning every time. Mia is stuck in mediocrity. They aren't close to being contenders, They lack blue chip talent. Don't have much cap room.

They are very well coached and have a good program. Yet they havent produced any of the results you claim a team in there position should have. No star players are forcing there way to MIA, they have no blue chip talent. They had to overpay Tyler Johnson to retain him and he is 2nd/3rd tier. Waiters, JJ, Olynk are all 2nd/3rd tier players. Had to give their #16 pick to the Suns from the Dragic deal.

They can't get anybody to come there because they have no blue chip players, doesn't that sound familiar, and like you confirm, they over paid for 2nd tier talant. when shaq wade, bron and bosh were in a heat uniform, 2nd tier players took pay cuts.

You think Cousin would have join the knicks for 5.3 mill.

The same teams are in the lottery every yr because they're draft picks continue to produce 50+ loss seasons. If 6 season go by and your best player/players keep landing you in the lottery, what you think is going to happen.

I just hope KP is not resign until next summer..

ES
newyorknewyork
Posts: 29852
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
7/6/2018  3:15 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Losing 55+ games doesn't bode well for anyone.

You may think (great another high pick) but losing that many games means the youngsters showed no improvement, Knox and Mitchell are major projects, KP is a shell of himself, fiz is no better than JH, mills and perry can't draft well(especially if players drafted after knox turn out better) and you lose faith in them picking good players.

who care about keeping and adding young guys if they are not getting better.

I hope and believe FIZ is the truth, I don't think 42 wins is a stretch(has the east every been weaker), and it will mean progress is happening.

Miami won 44 games without a single all star and cast offs like Onlynyk, Waiters, richards as their starters, it was mostly coaching and system. That's what i expect from this staff

You say the same things but run away when challenged with real logic and reasoning every time. Mia is stuck in mediocrity. They aren't close to being contenders, They lack blue chip talent. Don't have much cap room.

They are very well coached and have a good program. Yet they havent produced any of the results you claim a team in there position should have. No star players are forcing there way to MIA, they have no blue chip talent. They had to overpay Tyler Johnson to retain him and he is 2nd/3rd tier. Waiters, JJ, Olynk are all 2nd/3rd tier players. Had to give their #16 pick to the Suns from the Dragic deal.

They can't get anybody to come there because they have no blue chip players, doesn't that sound familiar, and like you confirm, they over paid for 2nd tier talant. when shaq wade, bron and bosh were in a heat uniform, 2nd tier players took pay cuts.

You think Cousin would have join the knicks for 5.3 mill.

The same teams are in the lottery every yr because they're draft picks continue to produce 50+ loss seasons. If 6 season go by and your best player/players keep landing you in the lottery, what you think is going to happen.

I just hope KP is not resign until next summer..

The cost you pay in order to get those 44 wins matters. GSW drafted Curry, Klay, Barnes, Green. They spent 3 years in the lottery with Curry until the young talent grew enough to become a playoff team. In doing so, since these players were under rookie scale contracts. They then had the cap space to make a trade for Iggy and eat his contract upgrading the team. And even then, it wasn't until Draymond got 3 yrs of NBA seasoning and took the next step that they were able to get over the hump in the playoffs and become a real contender.

While I agree that Knicks winning 40 games next year would be huge if the young players ball out. I don't agree that if it doesn't happen it means that the young players are trash or not being developed right. They may not be ready next yr but put it together the year after. But more importantly since they are on rookie scale you can add higher quality pieces to play with them. As well as a lotto pick. If Knicks are to compete for a chip. Hitting on one more lotto pick would be the best possible way to get there. To go with the cap space. When you see the amount of talent that teams like Boston and Philly can put out in the Eaat. Its very necessary. Sure it may not work out and that lotto pick may not be that great. But its the necessary steps to compete at the top level.r

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TripleThreat
Posts: 23106
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/24/2012
Member: #3997

7/6/2018  5:27 PM
knicks1248 wrote:who care about keeping and adding young guys if they are not getting better.


There isn't another choice.

The real problem is you believe there are alternatives because you believe some of your trade proposals are actually feasible. Over the years, I've never seen even one of your trade proposals or free agent signing proposals that was even remotely sensible/plausible. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, you aren't even aiming the darts near the dartboard. You are just tossing them into the ocean.

In a world where trade rape is normal and other non Knicks teams have no sense of self preservation, then Yes, there are more alternatives and to you, that means there are better choices.

In the way the NBA marketplace actually operates, you draft, you do the best you can at the time and place, you hope for the best and work hard and you hope the law of averages work out in your favor.

First sign of a true trade rapist - They have no concept of missing on a player or a pick. Even great team, great GMs, great legacies in the game, there were bad decisions over time. You can't hit 100 percent of the time. This is why these "Do these 2 things this year, then this next year, then this and that a year after that, this is the PLAN" scenarios are all insane.

Teams are going to miss sometimes. It can't be avoided. That they miss is not a reason to abandon the only practical team building process that exists.

newyorknewyork
Posts: 29852
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
7/6/2018  8:18 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:who care about keeping and adding young guys if they are not getting better.


There isn't another choice.

The real problem is you believe there are alternatives because you believe some of your trade proposals are actually feasible. Over the years, I've never seen even one of your trade proposals or free agent signing proposals that was even remotely sensible/plausible. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, you aren't even aiming the darts near the dartboard. You are just tossing them into the ocean.

In a world where trade rape is normal and other non Knicks teams have no sense of self preservation, then Yes, there are more alternatives and to you, that means there are better choices.

In the way the NBA marketplace actually operates, you draft, you do the best you can at the time and place, you hope for the best and work hard and you hope the law of averages work out in your favor.

First sign of a true trade rapist - They have no concept of missing on a player or a pick. Even great team, great GMs, great legacies in the game, there were bad decisions over time. You can't hit 100 percent of the time. This is why these "Do these 2 things this year, then this next year, then this and that a year after that, this is the PLAN" scenarios are all insane.

Teams are going to miss sometimes. It can't be avoided. That they miss is not a reason to abandon the only practical team building process that exists.

The cost for Miami to get to 44 games was, no cap space in the off season, no draft pick in the draft, and no blue chip talent on the roster. That's a hefty price. Yet according to 1248 philosophy. Miami should be able to make miracles happen going forward due to winning enough games to be a first round exit playoff team. In terms of young up and coming talent. They are behind Celtics, 76ers, Bucks, Pacers, Bulls & Knicks in the East. They don't have the talent to contend and don't have the up and coming talent to believe that they will contend any time soon unless something drastic breaks their way(like hitting on a stud draft pick go figure). But again according to 1248 they are on the right path because they won 41 & 44 games the last 2 seasons.

Maybe since Tyler Johnson has been developed in winning environment he has some Steph Curry in him that we haven't see yet.

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what would it take to get Lillard

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