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Jimmy Butler?
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dwiley20
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7/3/2018  2:43 PM
According to Joe Cowley of the Chicago Sun-Times, Jimmy Butler is "all but fed up with the nonchalant attitude of his younger teammates, specifically center Karl-Anthony Towns."

Per Crowley's league source, Butler also said that he has no intentions of signing an extension with Minnesota. In addition, Butler and Kyrie Irving are determined to play together, "whether that means the Celtics try and acquire Butler this summer or the two simply wait a year, both opt out of their player options after the season, and join forces that way." We will wait and see how Butler responds to these rumors before placing too much credence in the report. Stay tuned.

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Knixkik
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7/3/2018  2:58 PM
It's all possible. KP, Kyrie, and Butler is a really intriguing Big 3 with a Knox and Ntilikina supporting cast.
newyorknewyork
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7/3/2018  3:01 PM
Interesting. As there have been rumblings since Towns sophomore yr that he has wanted out of Minny.

Didn't know Butler was also a potential FA. He will be 30 by the time the season after next starts. Knicks won't have the salary for both.

dwiley20
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7/3/2018  3:16 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:Interesting. As there have been rumblings since Towns sophomore yr that he has wanted out of Minny.

Didn't know Butler was also a potential FA. He will be 30 by the time the season after next starts. Knicks won't have the salary for both.

so that means trade for butler now..which will attract Irving even more

Mike1989
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7/3/2018  3:30 PM
The question is what will it cost to acquire Jimmy Butler?

Salary wise he's slated to earn $20.4 million next season. So to balance salaries we would need to send Lee and Thomas or Hardaway for Butler straight works on the trade machine, but I'm not sure whether such a basic deal would get things done. I suspect we would need to include a future first round pick, perhaps a lottery protected first round pick in 2020 with protection reducing in 2021 and unprotected in 2022?

I'd be fine with doing a deal for Butler to get him on board ready for making an attempt to recruit Kyrie next off season. If we could field a starting line up featuring Kyrie, Ntilikina, Butler, Knox and KP we should be pretty well set. However, I wouldn't want to give up too much for Butler or take on a bad contract as well like Dieng.

dwiley20
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7/3/2018  4:38 PM
Mike1989 wrote:The question is what will it cost to acquire Jimmy Butler?

Salary wise he's slated to earn $20.4 million next season. So to balance salaries we would need to send Lee and Thomas or Hardaway for Butler straight works on the trade machine, but I'm not sure whether such a basic deal would get things done. I suspect we would need to include a future first round pick, perhaps a lottery protected first round pick in 2020 with protection reducing in 2021 and unprotected in 2022?

I'd be fine with doing a deal for Butler to get him on board ready for making an attempt to recruit Kyrie next off season. If we could field a starting line up featuring Kyrie, Ntilikina, Butler, Knox and KP we should be pretty well set. However, I wouldn't want to give up too much for Butler or take on a bad contract as well like Dieng.

Facts!! i dont want to give up draft picks..Minny has to realize he isnt resigning and something is better than nothing

Mike1989
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7/3/2018  5:52 PM
dwiley20 wrote:
Mike1989 wrote:The question is what will it cost to acquire Jimmy Butler?

Salary wise he's slated to earn $20.4 million next season. So to balance salaries we would need to send Lee and Thomas or Hardaway for Butler straight works on the trade machine, but I'm not sure whether such a basic deal would get things done. I suspect we would need to include a future first round pick, perhaps a lottery protected first round pick in 2020 with protection reducing in 2021 and unprotected in 2022?

I'd be fine with doing a deal for Butler to get him on board ready for making an attempt to recruit Kyrie next off season. If we could field a starting line up featuring Kyrie, Ntilikina, Butler, Knox and KP we should be pretty well set. However, I wouldn't want to give up too much for Butler or take on a bad contract as well like Dieng.

Facts!! i dont want to give up draft picks..Minny has to realize he isnt resigning and something is better than nothing

While I don't want to give up draft picks either, the timeline I suggested in my post wouldn't cause us any issues when the pick is likely to be conveyed. We aren't giving up our pick in 2019 because we will probably end up with a high value lottery pick, though the acquisition of Jimmy Butler might throw a spanner in the works. After the 18/19 season our aim should be to make a return to the play offs in 19/20, if we make the play offs all we give up is a pick in the 15-30 range. However, if we really want to make it difficult for the pick to go in their direction we can always protect it in a similar fashion to the Bucks, the first round pick they owe in 2019 is protected 1-3 and 17-30, so that pick should not convey and they'll instead send their 2020 first round pick. So there are other protections we can add to our pick in order to make it as difficult as possible to not lose a first round pick, and instead we can then send either a late first round pick or a future second round pick.

Now obviously if we can acquire Jimmy Butler without giving up a future first round pick that would be ideal, and if the reports are true that he won't re-sign and will walkaway in free agency, then that gives them no real leverage to play on the trade market. So as you say, it is simply then a case of them getting something rather than nothing. However, we shouldn't really be too concerned about our picks from 2020 onward because we shouldn't be picking in the lottery at that point. So if it means sacrificing a non-lottery pick to guarantee ourselves Jimmy Butler, that might be worth it because his addition should help us to recruit a top free agent in 2019. I think it would also help us cap wise because we would have Butler's bird rights and thus could sign his to an extension without needing the cap space, so we could end up with three max level contracts on the books (KP, Butler, 2019 free agent) and then our younger players and veterans to support them.

smackeddog
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7/4/2018  3:26 AM
dwiley20 wrote:
Mike1989 wrote:The question is what will it cost to acquire Jimmy Butler?

Salary wise he's slated to earn $20.4 million next season. So to balance salaries we would need to send Lee and Thomas or Hardaway for Butler straight works on the trade machine, but I'm not sure whether such a basic deal would get things done. I suspect we would need to include a future first round pick, perhaps a lottery protected first round pick in 2020 with protection reducing in 2021 and unprotected in 2022?

I'd be fine with doing a deal for Butler to get him on board ready for making an attempt to recruit Kyrie next off season. If we could field a starting line up featuring Kyrie, Ntilikina, Butler, Knox and KP we should be pretty well set. However, I wouldn't want to give up too much for Butler or take on a bad contract as well like Dieng.

Facts!! i dont want to give up draft picks..Minny has to realize he isnt resigning and something is better than nothing

I think they'll just see the season out with him- at least they will then likely make the playoffs. Thibs is in charge and just wants to win and compete- no way he opts to such this season for a future pick or random player.

Welpee
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7/4/2018  6:34 AM
So Butler had issues with Derrick Rose. Had issues with Rondo and Wade when they were in Chicago. Now has issues with KAT and Wiggins in Minnesota. At what point is the issue not the other guys and the issue is Butler?
Jmpasq
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7/4/2018  6:40 AM
dwiley20 wrote:
Mike1989 wrote:The question is what will it cost to acquire Jimmy Butler?

Salary wise he's slated to earn $20.4 million next season. So to balance salaries we would need to send Lee and Thomas or Hardaway for Butler straight works on the trade machine, but I'm not sure whether such a basic deal would get things done. I suspect we would need to include a future first round pick, perhaps a lottery protected first round pick in 2020 with protection reducing in 2021 and unprotected in 2022?

I'd be fine with doing a deal for Butler to get him on board ready for making an attempt to recruit Kyrie next off season. If we could field a starting line up featuring Kyrie, Ntilikina, Butler, Knox and KP we should be pretty well set. However, I wouldn't want to give up too much for Butler or take on a bad contract as well like Dieng.

Facts!! i dont want to give up draft picks..Minny has to realize he isnt resigning and something is better than nothing

nothing is better than that

Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
Welpee
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7/4/2018  7:00 AM
Jmpasq wrote:
dwiley20 wrote:
Mike1989 wrote:The question is what will it cost to acquire Jimmy Butler?

Salary wise he's slated to earn $20.4 million next season. So to balance salaries we would need to send Lee and Thomas or Hardaway for Butler straight works on the trade machine, but I'm not sure whether such a basic deal would get things done. I suspect we would need to include a future first round pick, perhaps a lottery protected first round pick in 2020 with protection reducing in 2021 and unprotected in 2022?

I'd be fine with doing a deal for Butler to get him on board ready for making an attempt to recruit Kyrie next off season. If we could field a starting line up featuring Kyrie, Ntilikina, Butler, Knox and KP we should be pretty well set. However, I wouldn't want to give up too much for Butler or take on a bad contract as well like Dieng.

Facts!! i dont want to give up draft picks..Minny has to realize he isnt resigning and something is better than nothing

nothing is better than that

Yeah, plus Boston or Philly could put together a much better package than that.
Ira
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7/4/2018  8:02 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/4/2018  8:06 AM
According to espn's real plus minus, Jimmy Butler was the 4th best player in the league - and that was after a slow start in a new system. Butler is much better than anyone on the Knicks and that includes KP when healthy. Of course we don't want to trade our young star, but we don't have great assets for a trade for Butler. We would get a discount for a player who hasn't been happy in Chicago or Minny. I would offer Hardaway and a first if Butler was willing to sign an extension or give up his player option. Of course, we'd throw in someone like Lance and/or Baker to make the numbers match. He'd easily be the best player on the Knicks since Ewing.
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7/4/2018  9:47 AM
It’s imperative we build a foundation and not trade it for an in prime star. We have to bring one in on free agency. Bostons trade for Kyrie was great but they got Horford and Haywood via free agency. They are not depleted by any stretch.
Because of this they can get Kawhi for Tatum and change if they want.
For us we make a big trade it’s going to leave the cupboard a bit thin.
Best is to organically grow and then strike. We are not there yet. Sorry, I know thats not fun. Few shortcuts to being a contender.
Maybe the problem is Thibs and butler? New age players are not old school tough. Does that make them bad???
why is KAT disgruntled? Weather? Coach?
Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
GustavBahler
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7/4/2018  10:36 AM
Would rather sign Butler, than Irving. Build a starting lineup with veratile big men, and perimeter players.
knicks1248
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7/4/2018  11:41 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/4/2018  11:42 AM
Welpee wrote:So Butler had issues with Derrick Rose. Had issues with Rondo and Wade when they were in Chicago. Now has issues with KAT and Wiggins in Minnesota. At what point is the issue not the other guys and the issue is Butler?

He didn't have a issue with Wade,rondo or rose, he had the same issue he has now, the young guys he is playing with don't play hard and take winning as serious as they (the vets) do.

This is what he said while with the Bulls

More Butler: “If you don't come in [for the next game ticked] off after you lose any game, if you're not [ticked] off that you lost, man, something is wrong. … I want to play with guys that care, guys that play hard, that want to do well for this organization. That want to win games, man. Do whatever it takes, just win. Who cares who is shining?”

Butler: “[Expletives] just got to care if we win or lose. … Be a star in your role, man. That's how you win in this league, man. You have to embrace what this team, what this organization needs for you to do on either end of the floor. On top of everything else, just play every possession like it's your last. We don't play hard all the time.”

I have been saying this for yrs, these young cats take yrs before they figure it out, the commitment and focusness aint there, and losing becomes a regular day at the office. You at the club popping $800 bottles after blowing a 20 point lead, or getting blown out all together.

The guys who take winning serious because it hurts, are in the gym shooting a 1000 jumpers and watching 4 hrs of film after the game, and like Kobe said, 75% of young players don't really care enough.

ES
Welpee
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7/4/2018  1:11 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Welpee wrote:So Butler had issues with Derrick Rose. Had issues with Rondo and Wade when they were in Chicago. Now has issues with KAT and Wiggins in Minnesota. At what point is the issue not the other guys and the issue is Butler?

He didn't have a issue with Wade,rondo or rose, he had the same issue he has now, the young guys he is playing with don't play hard and take winning as serious as they (the vets) do.

This is what he said while with the Bulls

More Butler: “If you don't come in [for the next game ticked] off after you lose any game, if you're not [ticked] off that you lost, man, something is wrong. … I want to play with guys that care, guys that play hard, that want to do well for this organization. That want to win games, man. Do whatever it takes, just win. Who cares who is shining?”

Butler: “[Expletives] just got to care if we win or lose. … Be a star in your role, man. That's how you win in this league, man. You have to embrace what this team, what this organization needs for you to do on either end of the floor. On top of everything else, just play every possession like it's your last. We don't play hard all the time.”

I have been saying this for yrs, these young cats take yrs before they figure it out, the commitment and focusness aint there, and losing becomes a regular day at the office. You at the club popping $800 bottles after blowing a 20 point lead, or getting blown out all together.

The guys who take winning serious because it hurts, are in the gym shooting a 1000 jumpers and watching 4 hrs of film after the game, and like Kobe said, 75% of young players don't really care enough.

Then I hope he was mad at himself for posting a near 30% decline in his scoring average during the playoffs. Sometimes you need to start with the guy staring at you in the mirror before fixing what's wrong with your teammates.
CrushAlot
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7/4/2018  1:40 PM
GustavBahler wrote:Would rather sign Butler, than Irving. Build a starting lineup with veratile big men, and perimeter players.
This. But does Butler end up a Laker? His game would fit really well with LBJ.
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knickstorrents
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7/5/2018  12:31 PM
I really like Jimmy Butler, I feel he can be the 2nd or 3rd best player on a championship team. To me he feels like the cherry on top though, rather than the main course. We need to build up our own depth and talent first, then free agents will come. We're not ready yet.
Rose is not the answer.
GustavBahler
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7/5/2018  12:52 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Would rather sign Butler, than Irving. Build a starting lineup with veratile big men, and perimeter players.
This. But does Butler end up a Laker? His game would fit really well with LBJ.

Probably depends on where Kawhi goes. They say the Spurs are going to play hardball, but the longer this drags on the more it works in the Laker's favor.

newyorknewyork
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7/5/2018  1:27 PM
GustavBahler wrote:Would rather sign Butler, than Irving. Build a starting lineup with veratile big men, and perimeter players.

A savvy move may be to snatch Jordan Bell from the Warriors when he becomes a FA in 2019.

Jimmy Butler?

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