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2018-2019 Offseason Thread
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CrushAlot
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7/1/2018  2:16 PM
smackeddog wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Woj saying there's no guarantee LeBron goes to the Lakers and he's currently meeting the 76ers. This off-season for them is like our off-season when LeBron, Wade and bosh went to the heat

Except the Lakers GM wasn't dumb enough to gutt their asset base for cap space we didn't end up needing. If the Lakers swing and miss on this offseason, they are still poised to imprpve from within for the 2018-2019 season.

people rightly lay into IT, but Walsh was an absolute disaster- nearly all his moves and drafts turned to absolute trash, but he was nice to the media so he gets a pass for it all.

This. I have heard interviews with some of the beat writers from Walsh's era and they loved him. He did a really bad job running the Knicks but he sat down and talked with the writers everyday.
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smackeddog
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7/1/2018  2:21 PM
I wonder if the Sixers end up trading Simmons for Leonard- seems they are trying to sign Lebron, making a pitch that includes them trading for Leonard.

Would you do that if you were the Sixers? Something like Simmons, Fultz, Miami 1st for Leonard (they'd probably also push for Saric), then sign lebron?

NardDogNation
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7/1/2018  2:24 PM
smackeddog wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Woj saying there's no guarantee LeBron goes to the Lakers and he's currently meeting the 76ers. This off-season for them is like our off-season when LeBron, Wade and bosh went to the heat

Except the Lakers GM wasn't dumb enough to gutt their asset base for cap space we didn't end up needing. If the Lakers swing and miss on this offseason, they are still poised to imprpve from within for the 2018-2019 season.

people rightly lay into IT, but Walsh was an absolute disaster- nearly all his moves and drafts turned to absolute trash, but he was nice to the media so he gets a pass for it all.

It's rare to see people share that POV but I COMPLETELY agree. Most put the blame for the failures of the Melo-era on Melo (somewhat rightfully) but I've always blamed Walsh.

Melo didn't force us to trade two future all-stars (David Lee and Zach Randolph) and a perennial 6th man of the year (Jamal Crawford) in their prime for nothing. Melo didn't force us to give up the 9th pick in the draft and a valuable 2012 pick to dump one year of Jared Jefferies $7 million contract. Melo didn't force us into not buying draft picks. Melo didn't force us into signing Amare Stoudemire. What value did any of this provide us long-term? Because in retrospect, they seemed like blue chips that we badly played.

But these are all things Walsh did, that left this team bare of assets and unable to muster enough value to trade for Chris Paul, sign Tyson Chandler outright and retain enough of a supporting cast to make it all worthwhile. Had we been just a bit more judicious with building our team, I think that core (CP3-Melo-Chandler) could've upset the Heat at least once during that 2010-2014 stretch.

smackeddog
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7/1/2018  2:34 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Woj saying there's no guarantee LeBron goes to the Lakers and he's currently meeting the 76ers. This off-season for them is like our off-season when LeBron, Wade and bosh went to the heat

Except the Lakers GM wasn't dumb enough to gutt their asset base for cap space we didn't end up needing. If the Lakers swing and miss on this offseason, they are still poised to imprpve from within for the 2018-2019 season.

people rightly lay into IT, but Walsh was an absolute disaster- nearly all his moves and drafts turned to absolute trash, but he was nice to the media so he gets a pass for it all.

It's rare to see people share that POV but I COMPLETELY agree. Most put the blame for the failures of the Melo-era on Melo (somewhat rightfully) but I've always blamed Walsh.

Melo didn't force us to trade two future all-stars (David Lee and Zach Randolph) and a perennial 6th man of the year (Jamal Crawford) in their prime for nothing. Melo didn't force us to give up the 9th pick in the draft and a valuable 2012 pick to dump one year of Jared Jefferies $7 million contract. Melo didn't force us into not buying draft picks. Melo didn't force us into signing Amare Stoudemire. What value did any of this provide us long-term? Because in retrospect, they seemed like blue chips that we badly played.

But these are all things Walsh did, that left this team bare of assets and unable to muster enough value to trade for Chris Paul, sign Tyson Chandler outright and retain enough of a supporting cast to make it all worthwhile. Had we been just a bit more judicious with building our team, I think that core (CP3-Melo-Chandler) could've upset the Heat at least once during that 2010-2014 stretch.

yep, his moves were truly awful- the more you remember about what he did, the worst gets! Trading Lee for what turned out to be absolute trash (Azubuke who couldn't play again, and Anthony Randolph who bombed out of the league). Drafting Jordan Hill ahead of DeRozan, Jrue Holiday AND Ty Lawson ANF Jeff Teague (when you're desperate for a PG!). His disastrous pitch to Lebron (going for the money angle when he just wanted to win).

NardDogNation
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7/1/2018  2:45 PM
unstopaball12 wrote:I think the best move to make this off season is to move CLee and fix the balance of the roster. 1 out of the field trade I want to look at is:

CLEE and Ron Bakerfor Carmelo Anthony. After which we waive Melo.

This move saves OKC ton of money in luxury taxes and get them a solid 2 guard while roberson is on the mend and gives them 2 solid defenders giving george more time to focus on defense.

This move makes sense for us as we finally get rid of CLee's contract and frees up our plan for 2019. Dotson gets more time.

Melo then gets to team up with LBJ whereever he goes.

With the extra roster spot I would get Jarrett jack back as we lose a veteran presence in Lee.

Backcourt then looks like:

Frank/Trey/Jack
Hardaway/Mudiay/Dotson

A smaller deal that would also work cap-wise:

Lance Thomas, Damyean Dotson and cash incentives for Kyle Singler, Alex Abrines and Terrance Ferguson

The deal would save the Thunder $5 million and free up a roster spot. But if they need to save more money, Lance Thomas could be stretched ($2.5 million per, over 5 years), which would bring their immediate savings ~$9 million. It would cost them Terrance Ferguson but Damyean Dotson is further along in his development (physically and game-wise) albeit with a lower ceiling.

NardDogNation
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7/1/2018  3:01 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/1/2018  3:04 PM
smackeddog wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Woj saying there's no guarantee LeBron goes to the Lakers and he's currently meeting the 76ers. This off-season for them is like our off-season when LeBron, Wade and bosh went to the heat

Except the Lakers GM wasn't dumb enough to gutt their asset base for cap space we didn't end up needing. If the Lakers swing and miss on this offseason, they are still poised to imprpve from within for the 2018-2019 season.

people rightly lay into IT, but Walsh was an absolute disaster- nearly all his moves and drafts turned to absolute trash, but he was nice to the media so he gets a pass for it all.

It's rare to see people share that POV but I COMPLETELY agree. Most put the blame for the failures of the Melo-era on Melo (somewhat rightfully) but I've always blamed Walsh.

Melo didn't force us to trade two future all-stars (David Lee and Zach Randolph) and a perennial 6th man of the year (Jamal Crawford) in their prime for nothing. Melo didn't force us to give up the 9th pick in the draft and a valuable 2012 pick to dump one year of Jared Jefferies $7 million contract. Melo didn't force us into not buying draft picks. Melo didn't force us into signing Amare Stoudemire. What value did any of this provide us long-term? Because in retrospect, they seemed like blue chips that we badly played.

But these are all things Walsh did, that left this team bare of assets and unable to muster enough value to trade for Chris Paul, sign Tyson Chandler outright and retain enough of a supporting cast to make it all worthwhile. Had we been just a bit more judicious with building our team, I think that core (CP3-Melo-Chandler) could've upset the Heat at least once during that 2010-2014 stretch.

yep, his moves were truly awful- the more you remember about what he did, the worst gets! Trading Lee for what turned out to be absolute trash (Azubuke who couldn't play again, and Anthony Randolph who bombed out of the league). Drafting Jordan Hill ahead of DeRozan, Jrue Holiday AND Ty Lawson ANF Jeff Teague (when you're desperate for a PG!). His disastrous pitch to Lebron (going for the money angle when he just wanted to win).

Yeah, a major issue I had with him was his reluctance to ever trade down in the draft. It always felt we reached on talent that we could've gotten later in the trade e.g. Iman Shumpert and Gallinari. Gallinari- for instance- was flagged with a bad back during the draft and was primed to fall with talents like Eric Gordon, Brook Lopez and DJ Augustin still on the board. It's water under the bridge now but when you consider the talent available late in that draft (e.g. Nicolas Batum, Serge Ibaka, George Hill, Ryan Andersen, DeAndre Jordan, Courtney Lee, etc.), it made all the sense in the world to move back and either get multiple picks or to acquire a later pick while unloading a "bad" contract. After all, it was clear from jumpstreet that the bulk of our team building would occur via free agency in 2010, which made the decision to swing (and miss) with risky "upside" picks to be foolish. I'd much rather have the cheaper specialist(s) late in the draft that help me to maximize the cap space I want and could better fit a role next to a star.

But I have a feeling this current front office isn't much better than what we've seen with Walsh. Them being adament about trying to be players in the 2019 free agency is alarming to me because we don't have hardly anything in place to be targetting big-ticket free agents. And if Kyrie is the main target, I think they'll doom the franchise for the better part of the next decade.

GustavBahler
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7/1/2018  6:12 PM
There was a report that LeBron met with Philly. Got PG staying in OKC wrong, but Im gonna guess that LeBron would want one more star, veteran, to join him in Philly. That very well could mean Fultz (among others) getting shipped to make that happen. Doubt LeBron would go any other way. It would pretty much cement Philly in the East for the next few years if LeBron and another healthy star heads to the Sixers. Then in a few years hopefully the Knicks will be ready to contend.
Allanfan20
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7/1/2018  8:15 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/1/2018  8:16 PM
LeBron to the Lakers- 4 years, $154 million, per Wojo.
Title odds are 200:1. So you're saying there's a chance!
knicks1248
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7/1/2018  8:23 PM
whats worse than phil spending 30 mill on Dwill,lee, noah, and KOQ(because he couldn't get top . All of Walsh contracts fell of th books by the time Phil go here
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ekstarks94
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7/1/2018  9:07 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Woj saying there's no guarantee LeBron goes to the Lakers and he's currently meeting the 76ers. This off-season for them is like our off-season when LeBron, Wade and bosh went to the heat

Except the Lakers GM wasn't dumb enough to gutt their asset base for cap space we didn't end up needing. If the Lakers swing and miss on this offseason, they are still poised to imprpve from within for the 2018-2019 season.

people rightly lay into IT, but Walsh was an absolute disaster- nearly all his moves and drafts turned to absolute trash, but he was nice to the media so he gets a pass for it all.

This. I have heard interviews with some of the beat writers from Walsh's era and they loved him. He did a really bad job running the Knicks but he sat down and talked with the writers everyday.

100....

ekstarks94
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7/1/2018  9:19 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:Melo didn't force us to trade two future all-stars (David Lee and Zach Randolph) and a perennial 6th man of the year (Jamal Crawford) in their prime for nothing. Melo didn't force us to give up the 9th pick in the draft and a valuable 2012 pick to dump one year of Jared Jefferies $7 million contract. Melo didn't force us into not buying draft picks. Melo didn't force us into signing Amare Stoudemire. What value did any of this provide us long-term? Because in retrospect, they seemed like blue chips that we badly played.

But these are all things Walsh did, that left this team bare of assets and unable to muster enough value to trade for Chris Paul, sign Tyson Chandler outright and retain enough of a supporting cast to make it all worthwhile. Had we been just a bit more judicious with building our team, I think that core (CP3-Melo-Chandler) could've upset the Heat at least once during that 2010-2014 stretch.


Walsh was under specific marching orders from Dolan to clear as much cap as possible to try to open space to sign LBJ as a free agent. Many teams, not just the Knicks, tried to do that, as it was clear back then LBJ was flirting openly with lots of teams despite knowing he was going to the Heat.

Walsh was also overruled by Dolan in the comp package in the Melo trade.

Walsh did not have operational freedom to run this team as he saw fit. But not every GM has that. He was also pushed onto the Knicks by David Stern.

Rich Cho is an outstanding personnel/front office guy. But he worked for a long time for Michael Jordan. Rich Cho is only as effective as he is allowed to actually do his job. Jordan is an idiot. But the power structure means sometimes you have to do what you are told.

You are blaming Walsh for following marching orders from his ownership. But that's his job.

Melo did two thing to ensure Chris Paul had no chance to be a Knick. He forced a trade to the Knicks, gutting assets to the point where nothing was left to trade. At Chris Paul's wedding, he and STAT rubbed it in the owners' faces, including Pauls', about forming a new "Big Three" with Paul being a Knick, triggering an immediate trade situation the Knicks were not prepared to handle at the time.

Melo is an idiot.

Walsh is not an idiot. Dolan is an idiot.

How much of an idiot you get to be is a function of power. Walsh was a foot soldier, not a general.

Walsh selecting Hill in the draft was like he had no back up plan if Curry was not there...you know Dantoni needed a supercharged pg to run his system....and selected a pf instead....f@@king stupid......he gives up a 1st rounder to dump Jeffries.....crazy....yes he was under marching orders from Dolan....I get that....but if you are forced to walk the plank....take your time don't f@@king run head first....

NardDogNation
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7/1/2018  9:41 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/1/2018  9:43 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:Melo didn't force us to trade two future all-stars (David Lee and Zach Randolph) and a perennial 6th man of the year (Jamal Crawford) in their prime for nothing. Melo didn't force us to give up the 9th pick in the draft and a valuable 2012 pick to dump one year of Jared Jefferies $7 million contract. Melo didn't force us into not buying draft picks. Melo didn't force us into signing Amare Stoudemire. What value did any of this provide us long-term? Because in retrospect, they seemed like blue chips that we badly played.

But these are all things Walsh did, that left this team bare of assets and unable to muster enough value to trade for Chris Paul, sign Tyson Chandler outright and retain enough of a supporting cast to make it all worthwhile. Had we been just a bit more judicious with building our team, I think that core (CP3-Melo-Chandler) could've upset the Heat at least once during that 2010-2014 stretch.


Walsh was under specific marching orders from Dolan to clear as much cap as possible to try to open space to sign LBJ as a free agent. Many teams, not just the Knicks, tried to do that, as it was clear back then LBJ was flirting openly with lots of teams despite knowing he was going to the Heat.

Walsh was also overruled by Dolan in the comp package in the Melo trade.

Walsh did not have operational freedom to run this team as he saw fit. But not every GM has that. He was also pushed onto the Knicks by David Stern.

Rich Cho is an outstanding personnel/front office guy. But he worked for a long time for Michael Jordan. Rich Cho is only as effective as he is allowed to actually do his job. Jordan is an idiot. But the power structure means sometimes you have to do what you are told.

You are blaming Walsh for following marching orders from his ownership. But that's his job.

Melo did two thing to ensure Chris Paul had no chance to be a Knick. He forced a trade to the Knicks, gutting assets to the point where nothing was left to trade. At Chris Paul's wedding, he and STAT rubbed it in the owners' faces, including Pauls', about forming a new "Big Three" with Paul being a Knick, triggering an immediate trade situation the Knicks were not prepared to handle at the time.

Melo is an idiot.

Walsh is not an idiot. Dolan is an idiot.

How much of an idiot you get to be is a function of power. Walsh was a foot soldier, not a general.

There is no doubt that Dolan is an idiot but I think it was pretty clear that whatever magic Donnie Walsh had earlier in his career was gone by the time we hired him. The Pacers were clearly on a downward trend with him at the helm, having won 41, 38 and 36 games the season before we got him (and in that order). He had already been marginalized with Larry Bird assuming more managerial responsibilities and was thrusted upon us by David Stern in order for Simons to save face and not fire Donnie outright.

And while it might've been an edict to clear cap, it didn't mean that Walsh should've done so recklessly. As I intimated before, two of the four "bad" contracts we had were attached to productive players in the midst of their primes who would go on to be distinguished league-wide. Then there is the issue of the draft and how abhorrent he was at making worthwhile picks. In the end, there was very little about what Walsh did that was redeemable. And the rumor-mill of what he could've potentially done might be even more damning. I recall stories of him turning down an Eddy Curry-based trade for Chauncey Billups as well as a Jared Jefferies salary dump to the Kings that would've only cost Nate Robinson. If any of that is true, I don't think it'd be a stretch to say that Walsh might've been the worst executive we had under Dolan.

Marv
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7/1/2018  11:58 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:Melo didn't force us to trade two future all-stars (David Lee and Zach Randolph) and a perennial 6th man of the year (Jamal Crawford) in their prime for nothing. Melo didn't force us to give up the 9th pick in the draft and a valuable 2012 pick to dump one year of Jared Jefferies $7 million contract. Melo didn't force us into not buying draft picks. Melo didn't force us into signing Amare Stoudemire. What value did any of this provide us long-term? Because in retrospect, they seemed like blue chips that we badly played.

But these are all things Walsh did, that left this team bare of assets and unable to muster enough value to trade for Chris Paul, sign Tyson Chandler outright and retain enough of a supporting cast to make it all worthwhile. Had we been just a bit more judicious with building our team, I think that core (CP3-Melo-Chandler) could've upset the Heat at least once during that 2010-2014 stretch.


Walsh was under specific marching orders from Dolan to clear as much cap as possible to try to open space to sign LBJ as a free agent. Many teams, not just the Knicks, tried to do that, as it was clear back then LBJ was flirting openly with lots of teams despite knowing he was going to the Heat.

Walsh was also overruled by Dolan in the comp package in the Melo trade.

Walsh did not have operational freedom to run this team as he saw fit. But not every GM has that. He was also pushed onto the Knicks by David Stern.

Rich Cho is an outstanding personnel/front office guy. But he worked for a long time for Michael Jordan. Rich Cho is only as effective as he is allowed to actually do his job. Jordan is an idiot. But the power structure means sometimes you have to do what you are told.

You are blaming Walsh for following marching orders from his ownership. But that's his job.

Melo did two thing to ensure Chris Paul had no chance to be a Knick. He forced a trade to the Knicks, gutting assets to the point where nothing was left to trade. At Chris Paul's wedding, he and STAT rubbed it in the owners' faces, including Pauls', about forming a new "Big Three" with Paul being a Knick, triggering an immediate trade situation the Knicks were not prepared to handle at the time.

Melo is an idiot.

Walsh is not an idiot. Dolan is an idiot.

How much of an idiot you get to be is a function of power. Walsh was a foot soldier, not a general.

There is no doubt that Dolan is an idiot but I think it was pretty clear that whatever magic Donnie Walsh had earlier in his career was gone by the time we hired him. The Pacers were clearly on a downward trend with him at the helm, having won 41, 38 and 36 games the season before we got him (and in that order). He had already been marginalized with Larry Bird assuming more managerial responsibilities and was thrusted upon us by David Stern in order for Simons to save face and not fire Donnie outright.

And while it might've been an edict to clear cap, it didn't mean that Walsh should've done so recklessly. As I intimated before, two of the four "bad" contracts we had were attached to productive players in the midst of their primes who would go on to be distinguished league-wide. Then there is the issue of the draft and how abhorrent he was at making worthwhile picks. In the end, there was very little about what Walsh did that was redeemable. And the rumor-mill of what he could've potentially done might be even more damning. I recall stories of him turning down an Eddy Curry-based trade for Chauncey Billups as well as a Jared Jefferies salary dump to the Kings that would've only cost Nate Robinson. If any of that is true, I don't think it'd be a stretch to say that Walsh might've been the worst executive we had under Dolan.


I don’t agree with this. Walsh produced a nice little turnaround in the face of losing out on lebron. He had no interest in gutting the team for melo. Dolan overruled him and produced that moronic deal.
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CrushAlot
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7/2/2018  12:21 AM
ekstarks94 wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:Melo didn't force us to trade two future all-stars (David Lee and Zach Randolph) and a perennial 6th man of the year (Jamal Crawford) in their prime for nothing. Melo didn't force us to give up the 9th pick in the draft and a valuable 2012 pick to dump one year of Jared Jefferies $7 million contract. Melo didn't force us into not buying draft picks. Melo didn't force us into signing Amare Stoudemire. What value did any of this provide us long-term? Because in retrospect, they seemed like blue chips that we badly played.

But these are all things Walsh did, that left this team bare of assets and unable to muster enough value to trade for Chris Paul, sign Tyson Chandler outright and retain enough of a supporting cast to make it all worthwhile. Had we been just a bit more judicious with building our team, I think that core (CP3-Melo-Chandler) could've upset the Heat at least once during that 2010-2014 stretch.


Walsh was under specific marching orders from Dolan to clear as much cap as possible to try to open space to sign LBJ as a free agent. Many teams, not just the Knicks, tried to do that, as it was clear back then LBJ was flirting openly with lots of teams despite knowing he was going to the Heat.

Walsh was also overruled by Dolan in the comp package in the Melo trade.

Walsh did not have operational freedom to run this team as he saw fit. But not every GM has that. He was also pushed onto the Knicks by David Stern.

Rich Cho is an outstanding personnel/front office guy. But he worked for a long time for Michael Jordan. Rich Cho is only as effective as he is allowed to actually do his job. Jordan is an idiot. But the power structure means sometimes you have to do what you are told.

You are blaming Walsh for following marching orders from his ownership. But that's his job.

Melo did two thing to ensure Chris Paul had no chance to be a Knick. He forced a trade to the Knicks, gutting assets to the point where nothing was left to trade. At Chris Paul's wedding, he and STAT rubbed it in the owners' faces, including Pauls', about forming a new "Big Three" with Paul being a Knick, triggering an immediate trade situation the Knicks were not prepared to handle at the time.

Melo is an idiot.

Walsh is not an idiot. Dolan is an idiot.

How much of an idiot you get to be is a function of power. Walsh was a foot soldier, not a general.

Walsh selecting Hill in the draft was like he had no back up plan if Curry was not there...you know Dantoni needed a supercharged pg to run his system....and selected a pf instead....f@@king stupid......he gives up a 1st rounder to dump Jeffries.....crazy....yes he was under marching orders from Dolan....I get that....but if you are forced to walk the plank....take your time don't f@@king run head first....

First rounder and his rookie lottery pick to move Jeffries.
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smackeddog
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7/2/2018  5:09 AM
Marv wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:Melo didn't force us to trade two future all-stars (David Lee and Zach Randolph) and a perennial 6th man of the year (Jamal Crawford) in their prime for nothing. Melo didn't force us to give up the 9th pick in the draft and a valuable 2012 pick to dump one year of Jared Jefferies $7 million contract. Melo didn't force us into not buying draft picks. Melo didn't force us into signing Amare Stoudemire. What value did any of this provide us long-term? Because in retrospect, they seemed like blue chips that we badly played.

But these are all things Walsh did, that left this team bare of assets and unable to muster enough value to trade for Chris Paul, sign Tyson Chandler outright and retain enough of a supporting cast to make it all worthwhile. Had we been just a bit more judicious with building our team, I think that core (CP3-Melo-Chandler) could've upset the Heat at least once during that 2010-2014 stretch.


Walsh was under specific marching orders from Dolan to clear as much cap as possible to try to open space to sign LBJ as a free agent. Many teams, not just the Knicks, tried to do that, as it was clear back then LBJ was flirting openly with lots of teams despite knowing he was going to the Heat.

Walsh was also overruled by Dolan in the comp package in the Melo trade.

Walsh did not have operational freedom to run this team as he saw fit. But not every GM has that. He was also pushed onto the Knicks by David Stern.

Rich Cho is an outstanding personnel/front office guy. But he worked for a long time for Michael Jordan. Rich Cho is only as effective as he is allowed to actually do his job. Jordan is an idiot. But the power structure means sometimes you have to do what you are told.

You are blaming Walsh for following marching orders from his ownership. But that's his job.

Melo did two thing to ensure Chris Paul had no chance to be a Knick. He forced a trade to the Knicks, gutting assets to the point where nothing was left to trade. At Chris Paul's wedding, he and STAT rubbed it in the owners' faces, including Pauls', about forming a new "Big Three" with Paul being a Knick, triggering an immediate trade situation the Knicks were not prepared to handle at the time.

Melo is an idiot.

Walsh is not an idiot. Dolan is an idiot.

How much of an idiot you get to be is a function of power. Walsh was a foot soldier, not a general.

There is no doubt that Dolan is an idiot but I think it was pretty clear that whatever magic Donnie Walsh had earlier in his career was gone by the time we hired him. The Pacers were clearly on a downward trend with him at the helm, having won 41, 38 and 36 games the season before we got him (and in that order). He had already been marginalized with Larry Bird assuming more managerial responsibilities and was thrusted upon us by David Stern in order for Simons to save face and not fire Donnie outright.

And while it might've been an edict to clear cap, it didn't mean that Walsh should've done so recklessly. As I intimated before, two of the four "bad" contracts we had were attached to productive players in the midst of their primes who would go on to be distinguished league-wide. Then there is the issue of the draft and how abhorrent he was at making worthwhile picks. In the end, there was very little about what Walsh did that was redeemable. And the rumor-mill of what he could've potentially done might be even more damning. I recall stories of him turning down an Eddy Curry-based trade for Chauncey Billups as well as a Jared Jefferies salary dump to the Kings that would've only cost Nate Robinson. If any of that is true, I don't think it'd be a stretch to say that Walsh might've been the worst executive we had under Dolan.


I don’t agree with this. Walsh produced a nice little turnaround in the face of losing out on lebron. He had no interest in gutting the team for melo. Dolan overruled him and produced that moronic deal.

But Walsh did say if he'd known Deron Williams was available he might of gone with that- which would have been even more of a disaster than having Melo

smackeddog
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7/2/2018  5:20 AM
Think we can rule out Tolliver

knicks1248
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7/2/2018  11:07 AM
smackeddog wrote:
Marv wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:Melo didn't force us to trade two future all-stars (David Lee and Zach Randolph) and a perennial 6th man of the year (Jamal Crawford) in their prime for nothing. Melo didn't force us to give up the 9th pick in the draft and a valuable 2012 pick to dump one year of Jared Jefferies $7 million contract. Melo didn't force us into not buying draft picks. Melo didn't force us into signing Amare Stoudemire. What value did any of this provide us long-term? Because in retrospect, they seemed like blue chips that we badly played.

But these are all things Walsh did, that left this team bare of assets and unable to muster enough value to trade for Chris Paul, sign Tyson Chandler outright and retain enough of a supporting cast to make it all worthwhile. Had we been just a bit more judicious with building our team, I think that core (CP3-Melo-Chandler) could've upset the Heat at least once during that 2010-2014 stretch.


Walsh was under specific marching orders from Dolan to clear as much cap as possible to try to open space to sign LBJ as a free agent. Many teams, not just the Knicks, tried to do that, as it was clear back then LBJ was flirting openly with lots of teams despite knowing he was going to the Heat.

Walsh was also overruled by Dolan in the comp package in the Melo trade.

Walsh did not have operational freedom to run this team as he saw fit. But not every GM has that. He was also pushed onto the Knicks by David Stern.

Rich Cho is an outstanding personnel/front office guy. But he worked for a long time for Michael Jordan. Rich Cho is only as effective as he is allowed to actually do his job. Jordan is an idiot. But the power structure means sometimes you have to do what you are told.

You are blaming Walsh for following marching orders from his ownership. But that's his job.

Melo did two thing to ensure Chris Paul had no chance to be a Knick. He forced a trade to the Knicks, gutting assets to the point where nothing was left to trade. At Chris Paul's wedding, he and STAT rubbed it in the owners' faces, including Pauls', about forming a new "Big Three" with Paul being a Knick, triggering an immediate trade situation the Knicks were not prepared to handle at the time.

Melo is an idiot.

Walsh is not an idiot. Dolan is an idiot.

How much of an idiot you get to be is a function of power. Walsh was a foot soldier, not a general.

There is no doubt that Dolan is an idiot but I think it was pretty clear that whatever magic Donnie Walsh had earlier in his career was gone by the time we hired him. The Pacers were clearly on a downward trend with him at the helm, having won 41, 38 and 36 games the season before we got him (and in that order). He had already been marginalized with Larry Bird assuming more managerial responsibilities and was thrusted upon us by David Stern in order for Simons to save face and not fire Donnie outright.

And while it might've been an edict to clear cap, it didn't mean that Walsh should've done so recklessly. As I intimated before, two of the four "bad" contracts we had were attached to productive players in the midst of their primes who would go on to be distinguished league-wide. Then there is the issue of the draft and how abhorrent he was at making worthwhile picks. In the end, there was very little about what Walsh did that was redeemable. And the rumor-mill of what he could've potentially done might be even more damning. I recall stories of him turning down an Eddy Curry-based trade for Chauncey Billups as well as a Jared Jefferies salary dump to the Kings that would've only cost Nate Robinson. If any of that is true, I don't think it'd be a stretch to say that Walsh might've been the worst executive we had under Dolan.


I don’t agree with this. Walsh produced a nice little turnaround in the face of losing out on lebron. He had no interest in gutting the team for melo. Dolan overruled him and produced that moronic deal.

But Walsh did say if he'd known Deron Williams was available he might of gone with that- which would have been even more of a disaster than having Melo

Not really, Deron wouldn't have cost as much, probably doesn't get resign for a boat load of money and a NTC, MDA and walsh may have lasted longer, no phil, no lin. Lot of things would have been different for the better

ES
newyorknewyork
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7/2/2018  2:05 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
Marv wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:Melo didn't force us to trade two future all-stars (David Lee and Zach Randolph) and a perennial 6th man of the year (Jamal Crawford) in their prime for nothing. Melo didn't force us to give up the 9th pick in the draft and a valuable 2012 pick to dump one year of Jared Jefferies $7 million contract. Melo didn't force us into not buying draft picks. Melo didn't force us into signing Amare Stoudemire. What value did any of this provide us long-term? Because in retrospect, they seemed like blue chips that we badly played.

But these are all things Walsh did, that left this team bare of assets and unable to muster enough value to trade for Chris Paul, sign Tyson Chandler outright and retain enough of a supporting cast to make it all worthwhile. Had we been just a bit more judicious with building our team, I think that core (CP3-Melo-Chandler) could've upset the Heat at least once during that 2010-2014 stretch.


Walsh was under specific marching orders from Dolan to clear as much cap as possible to try to open space to sign LBJ as a free agent. Many teams, not just the Knicks, tried to do that, as it was clear back then LBJ was flirting openly with lots of teams despite knowing he was going to the Heat.

Walsh was also overruled by Dolan in the comp package in the Melo trade.

Walsh did not have operational freedom to run this team as he saw fit. But not every GM has that. He was also pushed onto the Knicks by David Stern.

Rich Cho is an outstanding personnel/front office guy. But he worked for a long time for Michael Jordan. Rich Cho is only as effective as he is allowed to actually do his job. Jordan is an idiot. But the power structure means sometimes you have to do what you are told.

You are blaming Walsh for following marching orders from his ownership. But that's his job.

Melo did two thing to ensure Chris Paul had no chance to be a Knick. He forced a trade to the Knicks, gutting assets to the point where nothing was left to trade. At Chris Paul's wedding, he and STAT rubbed it in the owners' faces, including Pauls', about forming a new "Big Three" with Paul being a Knick, triggering an immediate trade situation the Knicks were not prepared to handle at the time.

Melo is an idiot.

Walsh is not an idiot. Dolan is an idiot.

How much of an idiot you get to be is a function of power. Walsh was a foot soldier, not a general.

There is no doubt that Dolan is an idiot but I think it was pretty clear that whatever magic Donnie Walsh had earlier in his career was gone by the time we hired him. The Pacers were clearly on a downward trend with him at the helm, having won 41, 38 and 36 games the season before we got him (and in that order). He had already been marginalized with Larry Bird assuming more managerial responsibilities and was thrusted upon us by David Stern in order for Simons to save face and not fire Donnie outright.

And while it might've been an edict to clear cap, it didn't mean that Walsh should've done so recklessly. As I intimated before, two of the four "bad" contracts we had were attached to productive players in the midst of their primes who would go on to be distinguished league-wide. Then there is the issue of the draft and how abhorrent he was at making worthwhile picks. In the end, there was very little about what Walsh did that was redeemable. And the rumor-mill of what he could've potentially done might be even more damning. I recall stories of him turning down an Eddy Curry-based trade for Chauncey Billups as well as a Jared Jefferies salary dump to the Kings that would've only cost Nate Robinson. If any of that is true, I don't think it'd be a stretch to say that Walsh might've been the worst executive we had under Dolan.


I don’t agree with this. Walsh produced a nice little turnaround in the face of losing out on lebron. He had no interest in gutting the team for melo. Dolan overruled him and produced that moronic deal.

But Walsh did say if he'd known Deron Williams was available he might of gone with that- which would have been even more of a disaster than having Melo

Not really, Deron wouldn't have cost as much, probably doesn't get resign for a boat load of money and a NTC, MDA and walsh may have lasted longer, no phil, no lin. Lot of things would have been different for the better

Interesting you of all ppl condone Walsh moves. Given the fact that he moved players like Randolph, and Crawford and Lee for pretty much no value back. Goes completely against your principals.

smackeddog
Posts: 33109
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7/2/2018  3:27 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/2/2018  3:29 PM
According to Shams:

Noel’s signing 2yr deal with OKC (2nd yr player option)

Favors 2 yr 36mil deal with Jazz

Tolliver about to do one year deal with the Twolves 5 to 6mil

smackeddog
Posts: 33109
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Member: #883
7/2/2018  3:34 PM
Twolves withdrew qualifying offer for Bjelica. Wonder if we go for him (remember Phil held out for him when discussing rose to Twolves)
2018-2019 Offseason Thread

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