Jmpasq wrote:

franco12 wrote:I seem to recall people saying he was garbage - a selfish ball stopper.

He may not be a good passer.

But, there will be times where the offense is in a funk, players are hitting open shots- that you need a player you can pass the ball to, and let him attack.

He seems likable as well, and I hope he does well here.

I think the biggest challenge he poses to us is having to clear up a roster spot for him so he can stay up on the main squad.

He is a selfish ball stopper.

I agree Trier is a selfish ball stopper, but I'm coming around to Fizdale's way of thinking.... all teams need someone like a Trier to help comeback from far behind where everyone has pretty much given up. Trier is single minded and shoots with no conscience... this can be a good thing, but the coach can't let it run wild.

TripleThreat wrote:

fishmike wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Right now Trier is playing like he belongs. If he could show some skill as a distributor down the road, that would really be something.

Trier is a chucker.

See... this tells me you have not watched preseason. At least youtube his highlights and come back to us.

Trier has established himself as an excellent basket attacker and finisher. Yes he's hit his 3s so is that sustainable? But the rest aint chucking. IF you think so your talking ****. Thats a guy using the threat of his drive to create space and using that space to knock down jumpers like he's in a gym. Defense will adjust sure and Trier has plenty to prove, but chucker? Not so far. Not at all.

I've watched plenty of Trier this year and in previous years.

I'm considering his entire body of work in his career thus far, not just a handful of games, many of which will not approximate what he will see in live mid season NBA action.

My take is a few games does not outweigh the scope of everything he's shown thus far. Everything. His Arizona days and everything up until now. My opinion.

If you want to take the opinion that a few days/games overshadows everything in the past, that's your opinion, your right to it.

Sometimes players do change. IT'S VERY VERY VERY VERY RARE.

One day, you could be right. But the odds are against it. You'll never actually admit that.

One day, I could be right. The odds are dramatically weighed on my end. Trier is a fringe player for a reason. That he's still in contention for a roster spot says more about the Knicks overall talent situation than it does about Trier.

I want Trier to succeed. I want the Knicks to win. But odds are he won't. I'm not going to deny basic marketplace reality over a couple of games. Of course he's putting in full effort, he's a fringe guy fighting for a roster spot. Many other times I've seen him though, the effort was inconsistent. Show it your entire career ( i.e. Patrick Beverley) then you can label a guy a high energy guy. Do it sometimes when you want to make the team, and it's nice, but not an indicator of long term behavior.

It's nice to have a guy who can, at times, create his own shot. But still in the context of a free flowing team offense and knowing when to turn that off and on. Trier only plays one way. He's gotta show he can adapt consistently to really help this team.

WTF

blkexec wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

fishmike wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Right now Trier is playing like he belongs. If he could show some skill as a distributor down the road, that would really be something.

Trier is a chucker.

See... this tells me you have not watched preseason. At least youtube his highlights and come back to us.

Trier has established himself as an excellent basket attacker and finisher. Yes he's hit his 3s so is that sustainable? But the rest aint chucking. IF you think so your talking ****. Thats a guy using the threat of his drive to create space and using that space to knock down jumpers like he's in a gym. Defense will adjust sure and Trier has plenty to prove, but chucker? Not so far. Not at all.

I've watched plenty of Trier this year and in previous years.

I'm considering his entire body of work in his career thus far, not just a handful of games, many of which will not approximate what he will see in live mid season NBA action.

My take is a few games does not outweigh the scope of everything he's shown thus far. Everything. His Arizona days and everything up until now. My opinion.

If you want to take the opinion that a few days/games overshadows everything in the past, that's your opinion, your right to it.

Sometimes players do change. IT'S VERY VERY VERY VERY RARE.

One day, you could be right. But the odds are against it. You'll never actually admit that.

One day, I could be right. The odds are dramatically weighed on my end. Trier is a fringe player for a reason. That he's still in contention for a roster spot says more about the Knicks overall talent situation than it does about Trier.

I want Trier to succeed. I want the Knicks to win. But odds are he won't. I'm not going to deny basic marketplace reality over a couple of games. Of course he's putting in full effort, he's a fringe guy fighting for a roster spot. Many other times I've seen him though, the effort was inconsistent. Show it your entire career ( i.e. Patrick Beverley) then you can label a guy a high energy guy. Do it sometimes when you want to make the team, and it's nice, but not an indicator of long term behavior.

It's nice to have a guy who can, at times, create his own shot. But still in the context of a free flowing team offense and knowing when to turn that off and on. Trier only plays one way. He's gotta show he can adapt consistently to really help this team.

WTF

exactly. i was critical of trier as well from the summer league games, but he definitely showed up to play and looks ready to go. we have 2 microwaves in burke and thjr, doesn't hurt to have a third?

TripleThreat wrote:

fishmike wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Right now Trier is playing like he belongs. If he could show some skill as a distributor down the road, that would really be something.

Trier is a chucker.

See... this tells me you have not watched preseason. At least youtube his highlights and come back to us.

Trier has established himself as an excellent basket attacker and finisher. Yes he's hit his 3s so is that sustainable? But the rest aint chucking. IF you think so your talking ****. Thats a guy using the threat of his drive to create space and using that space to knock down jumpers like he's in a gym. Defense will adjust sure and Trier has plenty to prove, but chucker? Not so far. Not at all.

I've watched plenty of Trier this year and in previous years.

I'm considering his entire body of work in his career thus far, not just a handful of games, many of which will not approximate what he will see in live mid season NBA action.

My take is a few games does not outweigh the scope of everything he's shown thus far. Everything. His Arizona days and everything up until now. My opinion.

If you want to take the opinion that a few days/games overshadows everything in the past, that's your opinion, your right to it.

Sometimes players do change. IT'S VERY VERY VERY VERY RARE.

One day, you could be right. But the odds are against it. You'll never actually admit that.

One day, I could be right. The odds are dramatically weighed on my end. Trier is a fringe player for a reason. That he's still in contention for a roster spot says more about the Knicks overall talent situation than it does about Trier.

I want Trier to succeed. I want the Knicks to win. But odds are he won't. I'm not going to deny basic marketplace reality over a couple of games. Of course he's putting in full effort, he's a fringe guy fighting for a roster spot. Many other times I've seen him though, the effort was inconsistent. Show it your entire career ( i.e. Patrick Beverley) then you can label a guy a high energy guy. Do it sometimes when you want to make the team, and it's nice, but not an indicator of long term behavior.

It's nice to have a guy who can, at times, create his own shot. But still in the context of a free flowing team offense and knowing when to turn that off and on. Trier only plays one way. He's gotta show he can adapt consistently to really help this team.

Two thoughts:

1) perhaps different motivation now. Not a coddled college player. Now it's shape up, or play overseas

2) I didn't watch him in college but I see a lot of driving to the hope, not pure chucking. Our team sorely needs someone to pressure the D, draw fouls (still the most efficient way to score by a wide marging -- even with modern ball analytics etc.) (Not to go off on a tangent, but I've long ranted about a quasi corrupt NBA which is effectuated by refs simply having a quicker whistle sometimes than others. Shooting free throws you're looking at an expected net increase of 1.4-1.6 for foul in the act of shooting a two pointer, compare that to roughly 1 for non-call, or 1.2ish for a three point attempt from a good shooter). You only need a few bad whistles to turn a game)

If nothing else a guy like Trier can keep the refs honest

TripleThreat wrote:

I've watched plenty of Trier this year and in previous years.....

All sports are littered with guys who can impress for an instant in time...and then they revert back to what they really are. Jeremy Lin, the Yankees Gary Sanchez, the Giants Ron Dayne, NASCAR's Trevor Bayne, even boxing's Mike Tyson can count as a guy who shined brightly but it was eventually revealed exactly what he was in the ring.

Trier looked absolutely fantastic the other night. But if you played and follow sports, you know the idea of flash in the pan.

Here's Lonzo Trier vs. the Nets on October 3, 2018:

Here's Allonzo Trier in January of 2019:

fishmike wrote:So Trier is going to become an unstoppable force winning multiple titles over several years in the NBA before fizzling out?

Cool

Yes, that's exactly what will happen. Trier will be an unstoppable force winning multiple titles...providing Trier plays 82 games against the Nets and the Magic (you know, the Trever Berbicks and Peter McNeeleys of the world). The minute Trier goes against the Warriors and Rockets (the Evander Holyfields and guys who fight back), Trier will look like this:

Here's Allonzo Trier after playing against the Golden State Warriors:

fishmike wrote:Right... so you are still comparing Trier to a guy who's a champion and top of his sport. I appreciate your optimism!

Shit... you are comparing Trier to Tyson right?

Mike Tyson was a Paper Tiger. Sure he looked like a world beater when fighting against Kenny Getup and Will E Last (the Nets and Orlando magic of boxing); but the moment Tyson went up against a guy who stood there and fought back we all saw that our grandmothers were capable of beating the piss out of Tyson. My God, Buster friggin' Douglas knocked Tyson the F out.

Allonzo Trier against the Nets is Mke Tyson in his first fights. Looking great against sh!t competition. Tyson fooled millions (he clearly fooled you) and Trier is doing the same. Wow, 25 points against the friggin' Nets in a pre-season game! Let's hang his jersey from the rafters of The Garden right now! Man, you fall in love fast.

Oh, and the Tyson/Trier comparisons go further. You do realize that Trier already has been suspended twice for violating rules, no? Hmm, Tyson also was a criminal. The similarities between the two are uncanny.

This is Allonzo Trier in about ten months time:

BigDaddyG wrote:
Sorry to digress, but I don't believe Mike downfall was merely him being exposed. Once Atlas and Cus left, Mike's conditioning,training and dedication went to crap. There were a number of factors that led to Mike's downfall. Also, the Lin comparison ...no, he isn't the ssecond coming of Nash. But he has still turned into a rotation level NBA guard...even a starter on some teams. If Trier reaches that level, then it's still a steal. I agree we should pump the brakes. Trier could easily turn into Jordan Crawford. That's why I would start him off at the G-League.

And yes, pump the brakes on Allonzo Trier. Pump the brakes on Baker Mayfield, too. (Not Pat Mahomes. That guy is the real deal. I watched every college game of his. He really is that great.) But Trier?

This is a picture of Trier guarding Curry:

BigDaddyG wrote:
...But I get what you're saying about Trier. The kid has me excited, but so did Mardy Collins and Marshon Brooks at one point. Gun to my head...I'd give Dotson first crack on the big club.