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What Can We Get for Kyle O'Quinn via Sign-and-Trade?
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NardDogNation
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6/16/2018  12:07 AM
He's a talented player but money will be tight in free agency. I can't see a market for him beyond playoff teams and most of them are just at or beyond the luxury tax, which will suppress the amount he gets offered. I think the issue is further compounded by the number of centers that will also be free agents and who will be comfortable taking one-year deals.

The only way I see O'Quinn getting a fair-market deal is via a sign-and-trade, where the team that receives him is allowed to offload more money than the value of his contract in dead-money contracts. That strategy would allow his new team to lower their payroll and acquire a pretty good rotation player. If those contracts expire before the 2020-2021 season, I wouldn't see the harm in the facilitating the deal and demanding a lightly protected first round pick. Seems like a reasonable exchange rather than letting O'Quinn walk (which is the next best option, IMO).

So, which teams should we be targeting?

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NardDogNation
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6/16/2018  12:21 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/16/2018  1:04 AM
I personally think the Wizards would be perfect. They have a bunch of dead money and are particularly vulnerable at the 5 spot (Gortat has beefed with Wall and wants to retire in 2 seasons with the Magic; Mahinmi is useless). They don't seem to value first round picks and have traded a number of them in the recent past (to the Nets in the Bogdanovic trade; to acquire Markieff Morris).

Washington has the 15th pick this year and $25 million in dead money between Ian Mahinmi ($16 million per), Jason Smith ($5.5 million) and Jodie Meeks ($3.5 million). If we were to replace a fraction of that money with Kyle O'Quinn and a trade exception, I think the Wizards would be willing to give up that 15th pick. It'd give them a little breathing room under the tax and provide them a capable ball player at a position of need.

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7068042

I used Kanter as a proxy for O'Quinn to simulate the trade but this is a way we could make the deal work. O'Quinn's starting salary would have to be $15 million at minimum (a gross overpay) BUT that is $1 million cheaper than Mahinmi AND saves the Wizards $9 million next season (not including tax). And O'Quinn's deal could be front-loaded, so that it decreases dramatically for however long it lasts. That would make him cheaper than Mahinmi in the short and long-term WITH significantly better play.

We'd get the 15th pick AND I'd demand the Cavs swap the 8th for the 9th pick for it to make sense from that perspective. We'd increase our payroll by $6 million but JR Smith's contract expires before Hardaway's, which should be a major incentive. We move up slightly in the draft, acquire another first round pick, and exchange long-term commitment for shorter (more pricery) termed commitments which are exactly the types of things that a rebuilding team should look to be doing.

Cartman718
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6/17/2018  2:00 AM
This does not fit in with the philosophy of prioritizing youth that Perry and Mills have laid out. We are not trading two 25 year olds for a bunch of 30 somethings
Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
ccinflushing
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6/17/2018  2:25 AM
Kyle is the free agent and he's the one who chooses which team he signs with. If the Knicks chooses to accommodate in a sign and trade, it'll likely be for an expiring and a second rounder.
NardDogNation
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6/17/2018  11:06 AM
ccinflushing wrote:Kyle is the free agent and he's the one who chooses which team he signs with. If the Knicks chooses to accommodate in a sign and trade, it'll likely be for an expiring and a second rounder.

Did you not read anything I wrote?

NardDogNation
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6/17/2018  11:08 AM
Cartman718 wrote:This does not fit in with the philosophy of prioritizing youth that Perry and Mills have laid out. We are not trading two 25 year olds for a bunch of 30 somethings

So the concept of getting a high first round pick (15th of 30), for players we are poised to lose anyway does not fit into the vision for a youth movement?

BigRedDog
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6/17/2018  11:12 AM
Bag of donuts?
Briggs-- Frank is 2 yrs away from being 2 years away
ccinflushing
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6/17/2018  11:45 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/17/2018  11:54 AM
NardDogNation wrote:
ccinflushing wrote:Kyle is the free agent and he's the one who chooses which team he signs with. If the Knicks chooses to accommodate in a sign and trade, it'll likely be for an expiring and a second rounder.

Did you not read anything I wrote?

Yeah I read it .. I guess I was just bowled over by the thought that Washington would repeat that mistake again .. wasn't signing Mahmini to that big assed contract a contributing factor to the quagmire they face today? And you're suggesting they should do that again with O'Quinn?

I mean conceptually I don't disagree with the thought - I just don't think Kyle is that caliber of player .. like Millsap or Gallinari last year .. where teams are going to give up a valuable draft pick

ccinflushing
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6/17/2018  2:23 PM
Sorry .. is assed even a word?
NardDogNation
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6/17/2018  3:04 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/17/2018  3:16 PM
ccinflushing wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
ccinflushing wrote:Kyle is the free agent and he's the one who chooses which team he signs with. If the Knicks chooses to accommodate in a sign and trade, it'll likely be for an expiring and a second rounder.

Did you not read anything I wrote?

Yeah I read it .. I guess I was just bowled over by the thought that Washington would repeat that mistake again .. wasn't signing Mahmini to that big assed contract a contributing factor to the quagmire they face today? And you're suggesting they should do that again with O'Quinn?

I mean conceptually I don't disagree with the thought - I just don't think Kyle is that caliber of player .. like Millsap or Gallinari last year .. where teams are going to give up a valuable draft pick

Again, Kyle O'Quinn will be hardpressed to get an annual salary worth more than the $4.5 million he's currently making by simply signing with a team for their room exception. The teams that would be interested in him (e.g. HOU, BOS, WAS) either will be at or already are at the $123 million luxury tax threshold for next season if they signed him. That means the most they could offer O'Quinn is the $5.2 million taxpayer room exception, leaving themselves with nothing else to sign someone. And with the phletora of centers that are free agents this year, it's hard to imagine a team even paying O'Quinn that much despite being one of the better two-way centers on the market.

So as much as Kyle O'Quinn might be a free agent, he'd be incentivized to work a sign-and-trade deal with us. We can structure the deal to pay him more than he'd get on the market and also save his new team a ton of money in the process. I used the Wizards as an example because they have so much dead money ($25 million) on their books and desperately need a center. We could structure a deal where we save them $7-$9 million (of that $25 million they are already committed to) next season AND provide the Wizards with the best player in the deal who also plays a position of need.

I'm not entirely sure about the machinations of poison-pill contracts and frontloading contracts but they could be useful as well here. A couple seasons ago, the Thunder frontloaded Nick Collison's contract by paying him $13.3 million in the first season and then only paid him about $3 million a season for the remainder of the contract. If we could do something like that for the Wizards, it would not only save them $7-$9 million next season but another $10 million or so per season for the remainder of the Mahinimi contract. Considering how tough it's gotten to dump contracts, that isn't anything to scoff at and would definitely require a first round pick. They wouldn't only be getting the better player that could start for them; they'd be saving a massive amount of money and recoup the ability to use the non-tax payer exception of $8.6 million to improve their team.

reub
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6/17/2018  3:22 PM
O'Quinn will be a Knick this year. He and Kanter will make a combined 200 threes for us too.
NardDogNation
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6/17/2018  3:53 PM
reub wrote:O'Quinn will be a Knick this year. He and Kanter will make a combined 200 threes for us too.

You say that as if it's a good thing. Both should be traded for picks, if possible.

ccinflushing
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6/17/2018  4:21 PM
I just can't think of a good O'Quinn sign and trade that would benefit all parties involved .. Washington for instance has to worry about managing cap space judiciously with Wall's supermax kicking in next year, Houston needs to worry about resigning Paul and Capela, Boston has to decide on their own free agents this year and Kyrie next, etc.
NardDogNation
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6/17/2018  4:26 PM
ccinflushing wrote:I just can't think of a good O'Quinn sign and trade that would benefit all parties involved .. Washington for instance has to worry about managing cap space judiciously with Wall's supermax kicking in next year, Houston needs to worry about resigning Paul and Capela, Boston has to decide on their own free agents this year and Kyrie next, etc.

...and how does what I propose not accomplish that?

ccinflushing
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6/17/2018  4:33 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/17/2018  4:34 PM
Because by paying $15Mn to O'Quinn, Washington will have $106Mn tied up in 4 players for 2019-20, when the cap is expected to be $108Mn - let me know how you plan to fill out the rest of the roster.
ccinflushing
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6/17/2018  4:45 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/17/2018  4:46 PM
And from the Knicks perspective, they want to main flexibility for the 2019 free agency period - not saying that that's right, but that's what they're saying ..
NardDogNation
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6/17/2018  4:54 PM
ccinflushing wrote:Because by paying $15Mn to O'Quinn, Washington will have $106Mn tied up in 4 players for 2019-20, when the cap is expected to be $108Mn - let me know how you plan to fill out the rest of the roster.

...and once again, the Wizards will have to pay $25 million to Ian Mahinmi, Jason Smith and Jodie Meeks. The money is gauranteed; it's a sunk cost that they are obligated to pay one way or another. All I'm suggesting is substituting that money for O'Quinn and ways they can do it to not pay the full $25 million (which they already owe). Are you familiar with how contracts are traded under the CBA?

NardDogNation
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6/17/2018  4:55 PM
ccinflushing wrote:And from the Knicks perspective, they want to main flexibility for the 2019 free agency period - not saying that that's right, but that's what they're saying ..

Yeah but that's a dumb idea. We shouldn't be using cap space with the intention of signing players. We should be leveraging it to get more picks.

ccinflushing
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6/17/2018  4:57 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/17/2018  5:09 PM
I mean from Washington's perspective, wouldn't it make more sense to keep the the #15 pick and draft Robert Williams or take a flyer on Lucas Nogueira for say $3Mn per year than to overpay O'Quinn?
ccinflushing
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6/17/2018  5:07 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
ccinflushing wrote:Because by paying $15Mn to O'Quinn, Washington will have $106Mn tied up in 4 players for 2019-20, when the cap is expected to be $108Mn - let me know how you plan to fill out the rest of the roster.

...and once again, the Wizards will have to pay $25 million to Ian Mahinmi, Jason Smith and Jodie Meeks. The money is gauranteed; it's a sunk cost that they are obligated to pay one way or another. All I'm suggesting is substituting that money for O'Quinn and ways they can do it to not pay the full $25 million (which they already owe). Are you familiar with how contracts are traded under the CBA?

I could ask if you are considering cap management taking a long term wholistic view .. what you're suggesting for Washington creates much much much bigger problems down the road .. they'll be digging a deeper hole for themselves .. If you don't see that what you're suggesting is a problem I don't know what to tell you.

What Can We Get for Kyle O'Quinn via Sign-and-Trade?

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