franco12 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

fishmike wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:we have nothing to offer to move up to the top. I doubt #9 and #36 are even close to good enough

similarly, the Mavs took DSJ with a thick injury file. He's not going to slip past them

Herniated discs... two of them, I think...Not a good injury for an athlete playing a sport with a lot of jumping, twisting, and pounding on wood floors. Pretty sure its a degenerative type injury...Maybe Chicago doesn't want to risk it, unless the physical they have shows he's 100% healed.

Even if healed, that kind of injury for a young kid is not promising.

Spot on. It would be bat**** crazy to trade *up* to draft Porter. After Rice, Stoudamire, Camby, KP, and a trainfull of injured - not functional players drafting Porter would just sink the Knicks for another decade.

ESPN is so full of **** when it comes to the Knicks.

Porter may drop through to 36 if so, draft him there.

if not for the injury he's the #1 pick this year... yes, it's a serious injury. but if our doctors greenlight it, why wouldn't you draft him? So we can grab our future second or third guy off the bench?

Back problems are not "an injury". An injury heals - you put a band-aid on it or do an orthoscopic surgery on it.

Discs that float in and out can float in and out by getting into a car, picking up a dropped comb, or other nonsensical things. I've had back surgery. I avoid contact sports.

An 84++++ game schedule is no place to introduce a player with a bad back who (oh, by the way) automatically gets a rookie contract for guaranteed big bucks. The NBA IS PHYSICAL - you can't hide.

Now teams that can afford risk like that will roll the dice - nothing to lose - 14th, 15th player.

A team like the Knicks looking for a dependable rotation guy who they will invest playing time into, money, and hype can ill afford *that* kind of additional risk. If said player goes down not only are you **** out of luck and wasted cap space (for years) but you wasted development and team chemistry time that ain't coming back. You start ALL over again.

And, BTW, nothing against Porter - maybe he beats the odds. But the second round is where you draft these guys. No guaranteed contract or obligations - no fool-the-evaluators games.

https://www.nytimes.com/1987/06/09/sports/doctor-s-orders-rest-for-mattingly.html

Jun 9, 1987 - Don Mattingly, one of the two Yankee stars who are missing the important ... ''Don injured two disks in his lower back,'' Dr. Bonamo said in a ...

Have hated the Yankees for many years...but had tons of respect for Mattingly as a player & was always amazed at his hitting ability...He serves a warning on what a back injury can mean for a player.

Porter might end up being fine...maybe the back acts up when he's in his 30s, later in his career...maybe it NEVER gets re-injured, but back injuries are always a worry for an athlete.

High risks...high reward. I'd steer away from him unless he really drops and we somehow acquire a late #1.

If we do end up with him, I will be his biggest fan... unless the back acts up.

The NIH did a study on players who had back surgery and players who did not. This was the conclusion:

Regardless of treatment type, players had similar rates of return to play. While operatively treated players had a decline in games played and PER during the first postoperative season, no difference in either statistic was seen by the second season compared with controls. Nonoperatively treated players, in contrast, did not have a significantly greater decline in games played or PER, but had a shorter career length compared with controls

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4702156/

Talking anecdotally about Don Mattingly or LJ literally means nothing here. It doesn't matter. If our doctors clear the pick, this is our pick. We need a star. We would get what normally would be the #1 overall pick fall into our laps. It would be beyond foolish not draft him, especially because PER THE NIH he did exactly what he should do for the longevity of his career

i'll go with the NIH study over the uk.com lounge on this one

can you show the part where it address multiple occurrences or a relapse? He hurt his back sophmore season as well. His last 4 years of BB he's hurt his back in 2 of them. He barely got on the court last year. Its multiple back injuries for a sport where being explosive is the key ingredient.

nope, but again, AS LONG AS OUR DOCTORS GREENLIGHT IT it would be insane not to take Porter. Yeah, there's risk, but our roster sucks big fat ****ing donkey dong. I don't want a bench player or a 3 and D guy. Or a player that hasn't shown anything. Give me the projected #1 overall pick heading in to the season. We suck, we have a ****ty pick, and it's worth the risk

even if our doctors greenlight it, I'm passing. We already have one player who can't stay healthy for a full NBA season. Don't want to gamble again.

I get that he might be a superstar, and his injuries behind him.

So you would have passed on Kyrie too? How about Embiid?

I can't believe this is a discussion

SupremeCommander wrote:

franco12 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

fishmike wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:we have nothing to offer to move up to the top. I doubt #9 and #36 are even close to good enough

similarly, the Mavs took DSJ with a thick injury file. He's not going to slip past them

Herniated discs... two of them, I think...Not a good injury for an athlete playing a sport with a lot of jumping, twisting, and pounding on wood floors. Pretty sure its a degenerative type injury...Maybe Chicago doesn't want to risk it, unless the physical they have shows he's 100% healed.

Even if healed, that kind of injury for a young kid is not promising.

Spot on. It would be bat**** crazy to trade *up* to draft Porter. After Rice, Stoudamire, Camby, KP, and a trainfull of injured - not functional players drafting Porter would just sink the Knicks for another decade.

ESPN is so full of **** when it comes to the Knicks.

Porter may drop through to 36 if so, draft him there.

if not for the injury he's the #1 pick this year... yes, it's a serious injury. but if our doctors greenlight it, why wouldn't you draft him? So we can grab our future second or third guy off the bench?

Back problems are not "an injury". An injury heals - you put a band-aid on it or do an orthoscopic surgery on it.

Discs that float in and out can float in and out by getting into a car, picking up a dropped comb, or other nonsensical things. I've had back surgery. I avoid contact sports.

An 84++++ game schedule is no place to introduce a player with a bad back who (oh, by the way) automatically gets a rookie contract for guaranteed big bucks. The NBA IS PHYSICAL - you can't hide.

Now teams that can afford risk like that will roll the dice - nothing to lose - 14th, 15th player.

A team like the Knicks looking for a dependable rotation guy who they will invest playing time into, money, and hype can ill afford *that* kind of additional risk. If said player goes down not only are you **** out of luck and wasted cap space (for years) but you wasted development and team chemistry time that ain't coming back. You start ALL over again.

And, BTW, nothing against Porter - maybe he beats the odds. But the second round is where you draft these guys. No guaranteed contract or obligations - no fool-the-evaluators games.

https://www.nytimes.com/1987/06/09/sports/doctor-s-orders-rest-for-mattingly.html

Jun 9, 1987 - Don Mattingly, one of the two Yankee stars who are missing the important ... ''Don injured two disks in his lower back,'' Dr. Bonamo said in a ...

Have hated the Yankees for many years...but had tons of respect for Mattingly as a player & was always amazed at his hitting ability...He serves a warning on what a back injury can mean for a player.

Porter might end up being fine...maybe the back acts up when he's in his 30s, later in his career...maybe it NEVER gets re-injured, but back injuries are always a worry for an athlete.

High risks...high reward. I'd steer away from him unless he really drops and we somehow acquire a late #1.

If we do end up with him, I will be his biggest fan... unless the back acts up.

The NIH did a study on players who had back surgery and players who did not. This was the conclusion:

Regardless of treatment type, players had similar rates of return to play. While operatively treated players had a decline in games played and PER during the first postoperative season, no difference in either statistic was seen by the second season compared with controls. Nonoperatively treated players, in contrast, did not have a significantly greater decline in games played or PER, but had a shorter career length compared with controls

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4702156/

Talking anecdotally about Don Mattingly or LJ literally means nothing here. It doesn't matter. If our doctors clear the pick, this is our pick. We need a star. We would get what normally would be the #1 overall pick fall into our laps. It would be beyond foolish not draft him, especially because PER THE NIH he did exactly what he should do for the longevity of his career

i'll go with the NIH study over the uk.com lounge on this one

can you show the part where it address multiple occurrences or a relapse? He hurt his back sophmore season as well. His last 4 years of BB he's hurt his back in 2 of them. He barely got on the court last year. Its multiple back injuries for a sport where being explosive is the key ingredient.

nope, but again, AS LONG AS OUR DOCTORS GREENLIGHT IT it would be insane not to take Porter. Yeah, there's risk, but our roster sucks big fat ****ing donkey dong. I don't want a bench player or a 3 and D guy. Or a player that hasn't shown anything. Give me the projected #1 overall pick heading in to the season. We suck, we have a ****ty pick, and it's worth the risk

even if our doctors greenlight it, I'm passing. We already have one player who can't stay healthy for a full NBA season. Don't want to gamble again.

I get that he might be a superstar, and his injuries behind him.

So you would have passed on Kyrie too? How about Embiid?

I can't believe this is a discussion

maybe yes.

We have KP, and he has shown himself so far to be brittle.

I don't need 2 brittle super stars.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/sam_amick/status/1007116424316239872

WaltLongmire wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:You guys are nuts. I know you'll dismiss this as "the Kings" but the point is Porter has #2 talent:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/sam_amick/status/1007116424316239872

We all know it is not an issue about his talent...Why are you looking at that and not his back issue?

I am! I linked to a friggin NIH article about the long term prospects of players that have the surgery he had!!! How much more due diligence would you like? whereas you and everyone else is just dismissing the science out of, I guess, fear?

knicks1248 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:also, one more thing, if we drafted Porter and maybe had to sit him next year.. well, we could give KP the year off too.. and then next year we have a chance to draft a top guy. It's a mini process. KP, Porter, RJ Barrett? Yeah, that would work

so basically have a 6th consecutive 50+ loss season. How do you think that would Make fiz look, like he's no better than JH.

Not to mention mills and perry would probably be fired

SupremeCommander wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:You guys are nuts. I know you'll dismiss this as "the Kings" but the point is Porter has #2 talent:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/sam_amick/status/1007116424316239872

We all know it is not an issue about his talent...Why are you looking at that and not his back issue?

I am! I linked to a friggin NIH article about the long term prospects of players that have the surgery he had!!! How much more due diligence would you like? whereas you and everyone else is just dismissing the science out of, I guess, fear?

I also remember folks coming up with Gallinari conspiracies after he was hurt in SL...claiming that the back was a pre-existing problem...that he was "damaged goods."

I look at Porter's back like I look at Trump's tax returns...What is being hidden?

Is he going through team physicals which examine his back? Why is there no transparency about his back and his doctor's report? Why are the Bulls the only team who seem to have it? Am I wrong about this?

We should already know about the status of the injury before now...this is crazy.

First hurt in HS...then he needed season ending surgery as a freshman. What that tells me is that he was playing with a pre-existing injury prior to his freshman year...which makes me wonder even more about his long-term durability.

Again...Porter could turn out to be a generational player, and his back holds up for his entire career, and the guy we take instead of him might have an injury plagued career, but if I was heading the Knicks, and a guy with the talent Porter has dropped to us at 9, I'd be hesitant to take him also, unless I had a second lottery pick to fall back on.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:also, one more thing, if we drafted Porter and maybe had to sit him next year.. well, we could give KP the year off too.. and then next year we have a chance to draft a top guy. It's a mini process. KP, Porter, RJ Barrett? Yeah, that would work

so basically have a 6th consecutive 50+ loss season. How do you think that would Make fiz look, like he's no better than JH.

Not to mention mills and perry would probably be fired

. This is why it’s called a rebuild. It will be worth it in the end...just look at Philly. Trading picks right now makes zero sense. KP is gonna be out half the year and we don’t have any real cap space so we aren’t gonna be contending next year anyway. I know you don’t believe in n building through the draft but it’s the best option for us. Plus next year we will have more cap space so don’t worry we will get “veteran” talent

Rebuild?

Please... the last 5 seasons have been the start of a rebuild. Not one of the last 5 seasons have the FO talked about playoffs, maybe the players, but hey... we got a injury prone player in KP,and a project in Franklin, in the process a president and 2 coaches have been fired during the rebuild.

How do you think Fiz will Look after a 10 game losing streak, or multiple losing streaks, how do think perry and mills will look?

The process you have suggested has been done over amd over to horrible results

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:also, one more thing, if we drafted Porter and maybe had to sit him next year.. well, we could give KP the year off too.. and then next year we have a chance to draft a top guy. It's a mini process. KP, Porter, RJ Barrett? Yeah, that would work

so basically have a 6th consecutive 50+ loss season. How do you think that would Make fiz look, like he's no better than JH.

Not to mention mills and perry would probably be fired

. This is why it’s called a rebuild. It will be worth it in the end...just look at Philly. Trading picks right now makes zero sense. KP is gonna be out half the year and we don’t have any real cap space so we aren’t gonna be contending next year anyway. I know you don’t believe in n building through the draft but it’s the best option for us. Plus next year we will have more cap space so don’t worry we will get “veteran” talent

Rebuild?

Please... the last 5 seasons have been the start of a rebuild. Not one of the last 5 seasons have the FO talked about playoffs, maybe the players, but hey... we got a injury prone player in KP,and a project in Franklin, in the process a president and 2 coaches have been fired during the rebuild.

How do you think Fiz will Look after a 10 game losing streak, or multiple losing streaks, how do think perry and mills will look?

The process you have suggested has been done over amd over to horrible results

Ira wrote:If we can somehow move up 2 or 3 spots without giving up a future first, we can use that pick for Carter.

Because these are our NY Knicks, and whatever bad can happen will. I wouldn't touch him, especially with him being such a mystery and canceling workouts. Stay far, far away. Just like i wanted no part of Mudiay in 2014, i want nip part of these damaged goods.
Think McDyess, Gallo, LJ. Pass, please!