elmaestro33 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:1.) I hope the Knicks bring in Jason Kidd to be a consultant for our PG's during the offseason and training camp. I think Frank Ntilikina, in particular, could benefit from his tutelage. The role Jason Kidd played for us during the 2012-2013 season is exactly what I'd like to see from Ntilikina moving forward (phenomenal outlet passer, ball mover, defender and shooter).

I doubt Mudiay ever lives up to the hype that made him the seventh pick in the 2015 draft but having arguably the greatest PG of all-time breaking down game film and technique for him could not hurt. If Mudiay could be a poor man's version of Kidd on the break during his prime and Ntilikina as the best version of Kidd after he aged, I think we'd have a pretty compelling backcourt moving forward.

2.) I'm shifting more toward taking the safest pick at 9 (Mikal Bridges), rather than the one with the highest ceiling (Porter, Carter, Sexton, etc). Small market teams have to continually swing for the fences in the draft because it is the only realistic way they have a shot at getting a star-caliber player. That is clearly not us. Our strategy moving forward should be to get as many singles (as opposed to homeruns) in the draft that we can while creating cap space to inevitably sign free agents. It would be optimal if we managed to get cost-control on several inexpensive albeit capable role players via the draft (e.g. Kyle Kuzma, Josh Hart, OG Anounby, Frank Mason Jr., Jordan Bell types) to build our roster. It won't make us into a juggernaut outright but would lay the groundwork to something special because...

"If we build it, they will come". If we have a solid floor AND cap space, we can create a narrative that is compelling enough to sign any all-star with Porzingis already in-tow. Do you think if we had implored this type of strategy sooner and had two max contract spots that we wouldn't be favored to sign both LeBron James and Paul George? We may have missed the window for those two but more disgruntled stars will be available in the future. Moving forward we need to look at any and all options that give us more picks to select "safe picks" in the draft whether that be trading down, acquiring short-term bad contracts with picks attached, etc. I don't care how badly we mangle the cap in the immediate, so long as ALL non-rookie contracts more than $6 million/yr expire BEFORE the 2020-2021 season; aside from Porzingis, obviously.

3.) I'm intrigued by the possibility of signing Mario Hezonja. He has been labeled a bust by many but I think his subpar play has been the result of poor development and a lack of opportunity. He had some impressive games after Aaron Gordon got hurt and the Magic shifted him to the 4 spot, which just so happens to be a position of need for us. I'd look into locking him into a 2+1 deal for a total of $13 million (only $8.5 million guaranteed) to see if he can make good on some of the hype that made him the 5th pick in the 2015 draft.

4.) I prefer to keep Ron Baker as opposed to Trey Burke. I know that this might not be a popular opinion by most but as bad as Baker had been last season; I don't see a generous 5"10 PG offering much utility moving forward. Unless players of that physical profile are nuclear athletes (see Nate Robinson), they generally don't hang around very long in the league. So why waste a roster spot and minutes trying to develop Burke?

5.) Even if Porzingis is ready to return this season, he shouldn't. He's clearly a very skilled player (evidenced by having won the Skills Challenge a few years) but I am becoming concerned about his shot selection and inability to find teammates with the pass. So while his body heals, I hope he uses the opportunity to figure out how best to integrate all his skills like the Sixers had Embiid do.

6.) If I were running the franchise, I'd want to roll into the season with this as my roster...

STARTERS
G: Emmanual Mudiay
G: Frank Ntilikina
F: Mikal Bridges
F: Patrick Patterson
C: Enes Kanter

ROTATION
G: Jerryd Bayless
G/F: Terrance Ferguson
G/F: Chandler Hutchinson or Melvin Frazier
F: Mario Hezonja
C: Joakim Noah

BENCH
PG: Jose Calderon
G/F: Alex Abrines
F: Kyle Singler
F: Lance Thomas
F/C: Kristaps Porzingis (injured)

(JR Smith acquired and waived)

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7060495

There's no way Kidd is taking a job as PG consultant of the Knicks... LOL. The guy is a head coach and won't accept anything less. He'll get his shot.

What is your rationale for that trade? Seems like we're giving up Timmy and Dotson for T. Ferguson and a bunch of old throw-ins.

Last I checked, Jason Kidd is the odd-man out as far as head coaches go. So rather than sit out the year, why not help develop possible proteges (ala Hakeem Olajuwon)? There is no worst case scenario to this situation, given his circumstances i.e. no job and no prospects.

As for the trade, the objective would be to create cap flexibility (Abrines' $5 million expiring contract) and to acquire a higher upside (Terrance Ferguson vs Dotson). Both those things are assets to rebuilding teams.

TripleThreat wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Knicks would be giving up the #8, Timmy, Lee & #36 for #12,13 Gallo, and savings on Lee's contract. I feel Knicks would be giving up to much.

What kind of future do we really have with Tim Hardaway and Courtney Lee? I believe Hardaway's contract makes him an impediment moving forward and Lee's play as a veteran is lost on a rebuilding team. I think we'd be much better served by using them to augment a nascent core with two lottery picks as opposed to just one; especially when you consider some of the players rumored to be available. Should Mikal or Miles Bridges and a Kevin Huerter be available with those picks, I'd make the move.

The Knicks could give up just their current first round pick this year and get the Clippers 12 and 13 straight out. No need to take back any other contracts. I'm not saying they should do it, I am saying the market value would mean the trade could, in theory, occur straight out. There are serious diminishing returns on 12 and 13 from the Knicks current position.

If Courtney Lee and/or Tim Hardaway Jr could have been moved to get another late lottery pick, it would have been done already. If both could have been moved for zero positive assets in return but the appeal of just shedding the contracts as a whole, it would have been done already.

Neither has positive trade value. Lee will NEVER have positive trade value with the Knicks on his current contract. NEVER. I said NEVER. He is a somewhat useful player, but the cost of a pick or a player for his production and his cap hold for two seasons, and the opportunity cost of using that 12 million AAV in free agency for the non Knicks team is too prohibitive.

THJr has no current trade value. That might change in the future, but not right now. Not even close.

No one wants to hear this, but the Knicks are likely going to have to let Lance Thomas, Courtney Lee, Joaquim Noah and THJr all expire naturally off the roster. Phil Jackson just totally horsef**ked this team.

If you want Luol Deng or Brandon Knight or Miles Teletovic and a small asset coming back, then maybe there's a trade out there. The same reason you want to dump certain Knicks players IS THE EXACT SAME REASON THE NON KNICKS TEAM DOES NOT WANT THEM. What is it about that which appears to be so difficult for many Knicks fans to digest?

I feel that we are constantly characterizing contracts as being unmoveable, only to see them later moved. Mozgov was one of the more recent examples (traded from the Lakers to the Nets) but several others also come to mind (e.g. Allen Crabbe, Andrew Nicholson, Carmelo Anthony, Nene, Brandon Knight, Hedo Turkoglu, Ben Gordon. Gilbert Arenas, Rashard Lewis, Juwan Howard, Chris Webber, Zach Randolph, etc.). Finding a taker usually involves eating a small amount of **** and/or surrendering other items of value but it can be done.

Take the Thunder for example who have a sunk cost equivalent to Lee's salary in Abrines and Singler. Why would they be averse to acquiring Lee when taking into account that they are caplocked whether Paul George stays or goes; have a deficit of talent at 2 guard; and will be forced to "win-now"with Westbrook, Adams, Anthony and Roberson under contract? Seems like a reasonable pairing when you consider that all that will really work on a Westbrook-led team are 3-and-D types.

NardDogNation wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Knicks would be giving up the #8, Timmy, Lee & #36 for #12,13 Gallo, and savings on Lee's contract. I feel Knicks would be giving up to much.

What kind of future do we really have with Tim Hardaway and Courtney Lee? I believe Hardaway's contract makes him an impediment moving forward and Lee's play as a veteran is lost on a rebuilding team. I think we'd be much better served by using them to augment a nascent core with two lottery picks as opposed to just one; especially when you consider some of the players rumored to be available. Should Mikal or Miles Bridges and a Kevin Huerter be available with those picks, I'd make the move.

The Knicks could give up just their current first round pick this year and get the Clippers 12 and 13 straight out. No need to take back any other contracts. I'm not saying they should do it, I am saying the market value would mean the trade could, in theory, occur straight out. There are serious diminishing returns on 12 and 13 from the Knicks current position.

If Courtney Lee and/or Tim Hardaway Jr could have been moved to get another late lottery pick, it would have been done already. If both could have been moved for zero positive assets in return but the appeal of just shedding the contracts as a whole, it would have been done already.

Neither has positive trade value. Lee will NEVER have positive trade value with the Knicks on his current contract. NEVER. I said NEVER. He is a somewhat useful player, but the cost of a pick or a player for his production and his cap hold for two seasons, and the opportunity cost of using that 12 million AAV in free agency for the non Knicks team is too prohibitive.

THJr has no current trade value. That might change in the future, but not right now. Not even close.

No one wants to hear this, but the Knicks are likely going to have to let Lance Thomas, Courtney Lee, Joaquim Noah and THJr all expire naturally off the roster. Phil Jackson just totally horsef**ked this team.

If you want Luol Deng or Brandon Knight or Miles Teletovic and a small asset coming back, then maybe there's a trade out there. The same reason you want to dump certain Knicks players IS THE EXACT SAME REASON THE NON KNICKS TEAM DOES NOT WANT THEM. What is it about that which appears to be so difficult for many Knicks fans to digest?

I feel that we are constantly characterizing contracts as being unmoveable, only to see them later moved. Mozgov was one of the more recent examples (traded from the Lakers to the Nets) but several others also come to mind (e.g. Allen Crabbe, Andrew Nicholson, Carmelo Anthony, Nene, Brandon Knight, Hedo Turkoglu, Ben Gordon. Gilbert Arenas, Rashard Lewis, Juwan Howard, Chris Webber, Zach Randolph, etc.). Finding a taker usually involves eating a small amount of **** and/or surrendering other items of value but it can be done.

Take the Thunder for example who have a sunk cost equivalent to Lee's salary in Abrines and Singler. Why would they be averse to acquiring Lee when taking into account that they are caplocked whether Paul George stays or goes; have a deficit of talent at 2 guard; and will be forced to "win-now"with Westbrook, Adams, Anthony and Roberson under contract? Seems like a reasonable pairing when you consider that all that will really work on a Westbrook-led team are 3-and-D types.

You are correct. These forum boards perennially announce that this guy and that are untradable, never-gonna-happen-in-a-million-years, impossible to trade. And within months most of them are all wearing different uniforms.

newyorknewyork wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Knicks would be giving up the #8, Timmy, Lee & #36 for #12,13 Gallo, and savings on Lee's contract. I feel Knicks would be giving up to much.

What kind of future do we really have with Tim Hardaway and Courtney Lee? I believe Hardaway's contract makes him an impediment moving forward and Lee's play as a veteran is lost on a rebuilding team. I think we'd be much better served by using them to augment a nascent core with two lottery picks as opposed to just one; especially when you consider some of the players rumored to be available. Should Mikal or Miles Bridges and a Kevin Huerter be available with those picks, I'd make the move.

I get your vision of basically replacing Tim and Lee for Huerter and Mikal. I just believe we could get more assets back. Tim could get a late first and an expiring at team like Utah for Burks and 21 would probably bite easy. Which would be funny moving Tim at the draft twice. For that same Lee inclusion we should be getting 2 future 2nd rounders from OKC instead of giving one up. The #8 can possible nab #12 and #13 alone especially if a dude viewed as top flight talent drops. Then we shouldnt sell based on #8 value but value of what that player is. Taking on Gallo's contract as well is tough. #8 and #21 would land #12-13 and other compensation without taking on Gallos contract but Burks for example.

Tim Hardaway Jr is not getting the Knicks a positive asset. The best you could hope for is a shorter worse contract. I think we would actually have to give a pick away to straight up get rid of him. Why do you think an NBA team would want to pay him 18 million and give us a first round pick? Its insane. That trade is akin to asking someone to kick you in the nuts and buying them a pair of steel tipped boots to do the job.