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Frank back in NY
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Knixkik
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5/21/2018  4:24 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Can't believe some people gave up on Frank after one season, especially considering his age. I'm giving him until at least the end of year 3 before I start t evaluate him.

That would be cool if he wasn't a regular rotation player, but when your logging 20 to 25 minutes a night people expect production.


He was #1 overall in pick and roll defense this season...as a rookie. The problem is, you have been judging him all year strictly on points, rebounds, and assists, or lack thereof. Nothing wrong with that, except you just have to realize it doesn't tell the whole story of production. There are so many ways to judge production, and you have to use each of them.
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StarksEwing1
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5/21/2018  4:51 PM
Knixkik wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Can't believe some people gave up on Frank after one season, especially considering his age. I'm giving him until at least the end of year 3 before I start t evaluate him.

That would be cool if he wasn't a regular rotation player, but when your logging 20 to 25 minutes a night people expect production.


He was #1 overall in pick and roll defense this season...as a rookie. The problem is, you have been judging him all year strictly on points, rebounds, and assists, or lack thereof. Nothing wrong with that, except you just have to realize it doesn't tell the whole story of production. There are so many ways to judge production, and you have to use each of them.
This
reub
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5/21/2018  6:41 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Can't believe some people gave up on Frank after one season, especially considering his age. I'm giving him until at least the end of year 3 before I start t evaluate him.

That would be cool if he wasn't a regular rotation player, but when your logging 20 to 25 minutes a night people expect production.


He was #1 overall in pick and roll defense this season...as a rookie. The problem is, you have been judging him all year strictly on points, rebounds, and assists, or lack thereof. Nothing wrong with that, except you just have to realize it doesn't tell the whole story of production. There are so many ways to judge production, and you have to use each of them.
This

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nixluva
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5/21/2018  7:36 PM
Kid was drafted for his Defense, unselfish play, versatility and upside! He’s barely scratched the surface of what he’s going to be. He’s not going to hit 20 until July 28th. He closed the season strong and very confident. Now Fiz will get his 1st up close look at Frank.
knicks1248
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5/21/2018  9:38 PM
I don't care what any of you bias fans think, franks and KP's development has been handled wrong. No one in the front office or coaching staff knows anything about developing, no experience. By the time perry came on the seen we had no $$, at least he went and nabbed burke, mills would not have done that on his own(lack of experience)

Not so fast, apparently. According to a report by The Ringer’s Kevin O’Connor earlier today, leagues sources told him that “the Knicks have the hots for the Oklahoma point guard. As O’Connor also noted, it appears that the interest is mutual. O’Connor continued by assessing Young’s fit on the Knicks

Took all season to realize, MAAAAYBE he's not a primary PG and we should play him off the ball, sticking him at point (the most challenging and most talented position in the NBA) might be a bit too much for a 19 yr old euro player...daahh ya think.

Maybe we should use him like they did in france..

It’s easy to understand why: Young is an ideal fit alongside Frank Ntilikina, whom the Knicks view as a 2-guard who can occasionally run the offense. Ntilikina could space the floor to allow Young to work his magic on the ball; conversely, Young could race through screens off the ball to get open for 3s while Ntilikina initiates the offense. It’d be a perfect pairing to ease the workload on Kristaps Porzingis.

The last thing we heard from phil...KP ISN"T READY, so what does mills do, send away melo in a (i had no choice) trade, gave KP the keys, and by december he was gasping for air, complaining of too many games(in fckng december) and falling victim to a devastating injury by january..

Now the coach, "NOT THE GM AND PREZ" is the one trying to make amends with the player and his agent, a guy who just got here 2 weeks ago.

ES
newyorknewyork
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5/21/2018  10:19 PM
KP became an all star this past season. Was playing like an MVP for the first month of the season. I would say that's progress as he wasn't doing that his first 2 yrs. You don't miss handle players into All stars. Knicks were an above .500 team before injuries I believe.

We are Knicks fans, we root for the Knicks. You come of more so caring about being right and constantly hedging then actually rooting for the team.

Mills hired Perry for his experience. So while Mills wouldn't do it. He hired someone that would. Because that what you do. Hire people that cover your weakness.

GustavBahler
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5/21/2018  10:38 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:KP became an all star this past season. Was playing like an MVP for the first month of the season. I would say that's progress as he wasn't doing that his first 2 yrs. You don't miss handle players into All stars. Knicks were an above .500 team before injuries I believe.

We are Knicks fans, we root for the Knicks. You come of more so caring about being right and constantly hedging then actually rooting for the team.

Mills hired Perry for his experience. So while Mills wouldn't do it. He hired someone that would. Because that what you do. Hire people that cover your weakness.

KP came back in better condition, that was clear. It was also clear that he still had a ways to go. Has to get to the point where by weight, strength, or both, cant be pushed off the blocks without a good deal of effort. Dont care how much uptempo ball we play, if we dont have a big who is a reliable post up player, there will be problems. Hope KP is still working on that aspect of his game.

As for Frank, great to hear that he is back in the USA. 6 weeks is a good amount of time to be with family, and recharge the batteries.

Hope to hear about some work in the States, outside of the Knicks sphere of influence.

A chance for Frank to try any crazy stuff in his head, that he wants to try on the court.

I would imagine it would be fun as hell to ball with elite players with no real restrictions.

ekstarks94
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5/21/2018  10:50 PM
reub wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Can't believe some people gave up on Frank after one season, especially considering his age. I'm giving him until at least the end of year 3 before I start t evaluate him.

That would be cool if he wasn't a regular rotation player, but when your logging 20 to 25 minutes a night people expect production.


He was #1 overall in pick and roll defense this season...as a rookie. The problem is, you have been judging him all year strictly on points, rebounds, and assists, or lack thereof. Nothing wrong with that, except you just have to realize it doesn't tell the whole story of production. There are so many ways to judge production, and you have to use each of them.
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PhilinLA
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5/22/2018  3:25 AM
Frank had a bad knee. The great news is he’s an elite defender and his shot should really come around.
http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
CrushAlot
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5/22/2018  5:43 PM
nixluva wrote:Kid was drafted for his Defense, unselfish play, versatility and upside! He’s barely scratched the surface of what he’s going to be. He’s not going to hit 20 until July 28th. He closed the season strong and very confident. Now Fiz will get his 1st up close look at Frank.
I agree with all of this but 21 rookies from his class got more votes for the all rookie team. Those guys are young as well. I hope he has a very productive offseason and comes back looking like the player that played the last 4-5 games of the season.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
BigDaddyG
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5/22/2018  5:56 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:Kid was drafted for his Defense, unselfish play, versatility and upside! He’s barely scratched the surface of what he’s going to be. He’s not going to hit 20 until July 28th. He closed the season strong and very confident. Now Fiz will get his 1st up close look at Frank.
I agree with all of this but 21 rookies from his class got more votes for the all rookie team. Those guys are young as well. I hope he has a very productive offseason and comes back looking like the player that played the last 4-5 games of the season.

Bam and Fox are really the only ones around the same age who got a ton more votes. This was a solid class, but won't get carried away. I got carried away with Landry Fields and we all know how that turned out. I liked Dillon Brooks as a second-rounder, but I think Dotson could turn out just as good. Zach Collins came on at the tail end of the season and I look for him to improve. Kennard and Monk are in the same boat as Frank. Teodosic is a man and I expected him to make some waves. Thornwell is also an older "rookie."

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Nalod
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5/23/2018  10:30 AM
Votes don't validate the future either way.
Defense is not heralded like other statistics and in that area Frank was outstanding.
Willy made second team and look how his trajectory has changed.
We doubled our investment in him. Maybe he improves. Maybe not.
Our prisim is "We blew it on Donovan Mitchell". Funny, not Monk. And other teams passed on Donovan also.
Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
CrushAlot
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5/23/2018  11:36 AM
Nalod wrote:Votes don't validate the future either way.
Defense is not heralded like other statistics and in that area Frank was outstanding.
Willy made second team and look how his trajectory has changed.
We doubled our investment in him. Maybe he improves. Maybe not.
Our prisim is "We blew it on Donovan Mitchell". Funny, not Monk. And other teams passed on Donovan also.
I would agree if it was a vote by fans. Voting is by nba coaches though and I do think they value defense.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
SupremeCommander
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5/23/2018  11:43 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:Kid was drafted for his Defense, unselfish play, versatility and upside! He’s barely scratched the surface of what he’s going to be. He’s not going to hit 20 until July 28th. He closed the season strong and very confident. Now Fiz will get his 1st up close look at Frank.
I agree with all of this but 21 rookies from his class got more votes for the all rookie team. Those guys are young as well. I hope he has a very productive offseason and comes back looking like the player that played the last 4-5 games of the season.

Bam and Fox are really the only ones around the same age who got a ton more votes. This was a solid class, but won't get carried away. I got carried away with Landry Fields and we all know how that turned out. I liked Dillon Brooks as a second-rounder, but I think Dotson could turn out just as good. Zach Collins came on at the tail end of the season and I look for him to improve. Kennard and Monk are in the same boat as Frank. Teodosic is a man and I expected him to make some waves. Thornwell is also an older "rookie."

I hear that... I have a Fields jersey that just collects dust

GustavBahler said: Check please....
BigDaddyG
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5/23/2018  11:45 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:Votes don't validate the future either way.
Defense is not heralded like other statistics and in that area Frank was outstanding.
Willy made second team and look how his trajectory has changed.
We doubled our investment in him. Maybe he improves. Maybe not.
Our prisim is "We blew it on Donovan Mitchell". Funny, not Monk. And other teams passed on Donovan also.
I would agree if it was a vote by fans. Voting is by nba coaches though and I do think they value defense.

I wonder...Bell, OG and Semi didn't get a lot of votes, either.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
CrushAlot
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5/23/2018  11:55 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:Votes don't validate the future either way.
Defense is not heralded like other statistics and in that area Frank was outstanding.
Willy made second team and look how his trajectory has changed.
We doubled our investment in him. Maybe he improves. Maybe not.
Our prisim is "We blew it on Donovan Mitchell". Funny, not Monk. And other teams passed on Donovan also.
I would agree if it was a vote by fans. Voting is by nba coaches though and I do think they value defense.

I wonder...Bell, OG and Semi didn't get a lot of votes, either.
O.G. had 2 first team votes. I googled it because I didn't think he played much for the first half of the season.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
newyorknewyork
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5/23/2018  2:36 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:Votes don't validate the future either way.
Defense is not heralded like other statistics and in that area Frank was outstanding.
Willy made second team and look how his trajectory has changed.
We doubled our investment in him. Maybe he improves. Maybe not.
Our prisim is "We blew it on Donovan Mitchell". Funny, not Monk. And other teams passed on Donovan also.
I would agree if it was a vote by fans. Voting is by nba coaches though and I do think they value defense.

I wonder...Bell, OG and Semi didn't get a lot of votes, either.
O.G. had 2 first team votes. I googled it because I didn't think he played much for the first half of the season.

But we can all agree that Franks situation was not similar to any of those players correct. 2nd youngest player in the draft. Never went through the NBA combine, or summer league, or preseason. Came over from France. Had no real strength and conditioning. What he did accomplish was mostly based off his own natural ability.

Lebron James and Klay Thompson both went out of their way to say Frank knows how to play later in the season. We haven't begun to see his real potential when his S&C and experience and work ethic and IQ all start to cone together to go with his measurables.

knicks1248
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5/23/2018  2:51 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/23/2018  2:52 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:Votes don't validate the future either way.
Defense is not heralded like other statistics and in that area Frank was outstanding.
Willy made second team and look how his trajectory has changed.
We doubled our investment in him. Maybe he improves. Maybe not.
Our prisim is "We blew it on Donovan Mitchell". Funny, not Monk. And other teams passed on Donovan also.
I would agree if it was a vote by fans. Voting is by nba coaches though and I do think they value defense.

I wonder...Bell, OG and Semi didn't get a lot of votes, either.
O.G. had 2 first team votes. I googled it because I didn't think he played much for the first half of the season.

But we can all agree that Franks situation was not similar to any of those players correct. 2nd youngest player in the draft. Never went through the NBA combine, or summer league, or preseason. Came over from France. Had no real strength and conditioning. What he did accomplish was mostly based off his own natural ability.

Lebron James and Klay Thompson both went out of their way to say Frank knows how to play later in the season. We haven't begun to see his real potential when his S&C and experience and work ethic and IQ all start to cone together to go with his measurables.

ya'll always given this kid excuses, Not that any of it isn't true. Anything he does bad there's age excuse, but you run around town screaming he's the best pick and roll defender in the league, who didn't get a single defensive vote. Then ya'll try to make it seem like I'm down on him, when in all reality, I'm down on how they went about developing him this season

The Kid shouldn't have been playing that many minutes to begin with, they threw him out there with out any real training whatsoever.

It's like a player just jumping into the game without stretching, no warm ups, no shoot around, then when he pulls something or gets injured, your scratching your head, I just dont think it was smart. But here's what I like..

an Begley
ESPN Staff Writer
Another sign that suggests the Knicks are high on 2017 first-round pick Frank Ntilikina: new head coach David Fizdale is traveling to Boston with Ntilikina to attend Game 5 of the Celtics-Cavs Eastern Conference Finals, a league source confirmed.

Think fiz is exactly what Frank needs, because JH and Rambis deserve a open hand slap in the face

ES
newyorknewyork
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5/23/2018  3:29 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/23/2018  3:31 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:Votes don't validate the future either way.
Defense is not heralded like other statistics and in that area Frank was outstanding.
Willy made second team and look how his trajectory has changed.
We doubled our investment in him. Maybe he improves. Maybe not.
Our prisim is "We blew it on Donovan Mitchell". Funny, not Monk. And other teams passed on Donovan also.
I would agree if it was a vote by fans. Voting is by nba coaches though and I do think they value defense.

I wonder...Bell, OG and Semi didn't get a lot of votes, either.
O.G. had 2 first team votes. I googled it because I didn't think he played much for the first half of the season.

But we can all agree that Franks situation was not similar to any of those players correct. 2nd youngest player in the draft. Never went through the NBA combine, or summer league, or preseason. Came over from France. Had no real strength and conditioning. What he did accomplish was mostly based off his own natural ability.

Lebron James and Klay Thompson both went out of their way to say Frank knows how to play later in the season. We haven't begun to see his real potential when his S&C and experience and work ethic and IQ all start to cone together to go with his measurables.

ya'll always given this kid excuses, Not that any of it isn't true. Anything he does bad there's age excuse, but you run around town screaming he's the best pick and roll defender in the league, who didn't get a single defensive vote. Then ya'll try to make it seem like I'm down on him, when in all reality, I'm down on how they went about developing him this season

The Kid shouldn't have been playing that many minutes to begin with, they threw him out there with out any real training whatsoever.

It's like a player just jumping into the game without stretching, no warm ups, no shoot around, then when he pulls something or gets injured, your scratching your head, I just dont think it was smart. But here's what I like..

an Begley
ESPN Staff Writer
Another sign that suggests the Knicks are high on 2017 first-round pick Frank Ntilikina: new head coach David Fizdale is traveling to Boston with Ntilikina to attend Game 5 of the Celtics-Cavs Eastern Conference Finals, a league source confirmed.

Think fiz is exactly what Frank needs, because JH and Rambis deserve a open hand slap in the face

I mean there is nothing to back up your stance that he shouldn't have been playing. If over the next 2 years he goes on to be an all around good bball player. You will then claim it was Fizz that fixed him. In turn not ever having to acknowledge that him playing his rookie year and gaining the good and the bad experiences and feel actually helped him. Even though it didn't look good while it was happening.

That is what I mean by you hedging.

Do you have detailed data that shows the progression of players who play a lot early vs those who have to sit? That you could present which will back your claims?

The fact that he was the 2nd youngest player in the NBA yet lead the league in PNR defense which is the most used offensive play in the NBA is pretty impressive as that's not something you wouldnt expect at this point in his career.

Again your willing to go after him while he is a rookie. Because in a few years if he develops himself into something you will just claim it was the new coaching staff or management etc etc. Never holding your post and logic accountable.

meloshouldgo
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5/23/2018  7:34 PM
The NBA Frist Rookie team voting - It really does point towards future success in the NBA

Who wouldn't want a starting five of Trey Burke, THJR, Landry fields, Willy Hernangomez and Jahlil Okafor?
I mean what team would ever score anything more than seventy total points agaisnt this defensive death squad?

And to think they could have Shump and Channing Frye off the bench! WOW
Apparently the people who vote pay attention to *cough* DEFENSE.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
Frank back in NY

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