GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Kanter's defense isnt so bad that it negates his offense.

Yeah it is

GustavBaohler wrote:I guess you missed watching the many games this season, where the only player keeping us in the game was Kanter.

I can’t think of one game where Kanter carried the team. Maybe a Miami game. That’s it.

Oh the Xmas game where they lost

Which others?

I gotta go with martin on this, I have been saying all season he was DAVID LEE.

Now if you put Kanter around 4 or 5 really good defenders and a really good defensive coaching staff, you could hide his defensive flaws like the knicks did with Allan Houston.

His a good team guy and has a lot of heart, but he is not even 50% worth that 18 mill

I gotta go with you not knowing WTF youre talking about. Kanter can defend in the paint. David Lee used to avoid contact like the plague. Mostly jazzhands defense. Kanter lets the player he's defending, slam right into him, doesnt back down.

When it came to rebounds, Lee padded his stats, many of his rebounds were when both teams were running to the other side of the court. Kanter is a very aggressive rebounder, post player. Lee was all about finesse.

David Lee was soft Kanter isnt. Willy was David Lee, was saying that all season long.

sort of. If his position is good he has his moments. He certainly holds his ground and is physical. However he cant adjust at all and the minute he's even slightly out of position the opposing C gets such easy looks.

The #s dont lie... Opposing Cs have an effective FG% of .611
I mean he gets scored on at will
http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK21.HTM

He brings a lot of other things... the intensity, physical play and rebounding are keys and can really help. He's also young.

I love him as a 25mpg guy until we have a better two way player. I would not like to lose him for nothing but I would prefer that to paying him 4/$80mm

Look at his numbers in the paint vs, defending players out near the arc. Kanter spent last offseason shedding lbs, it paid off. New coach, new team, new schemes, new teammates. Sure didnt help his numbers playing with backups and g-leaguers. One serious injury after another, mostly from playing physical ball.

Id like to see how Kanter comes back next season. See if his D is better beyond tbe rim. See if we can put a rim protector next to him, while KP rehabs. We will miss that scoring and rebounding in the paint. Should have been able to use that to knock down more 3s, but we took too few, made too few.

if he opts out are you confident enough to give him an extension? I would think 4/$80m would be a starting point

If he opts out, I wouldnt want to see the Knicks get too generous. Id rather see Kanter opt in so the Knicks can have more of a look at him. Although Kanter played through injuries, the only one tbat gave me pause as a fan was his back issues. Kanter's style of play can tax a player's back. Id want to see the Knicks make sure it isnt a long term issue.

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Kanter's defense isnt so bad that it negates his offense.

Yeah it is

GustavBaohler wrote:I guess you missed watching the many games this season, where the only player keeping us in the game was Kanter.

I can’t think of one game where Kanter carried the team. Maybe a Miami game. That’s it.

Oh the Xmas game where they lost

Which others?

I gotta go with martin on this, I have been saying all season he was DAVID LEE.

Now if you put Kanter around 4 or 5 really good defenders and a really good defensive coaching staff, you could hide his defensive flaws like the knicks did with Allan Houston.

His a good team guy and has a lot of heart, but he is not even 50% worth that 18 mill

I gotta go with you not knowing WTF youre talking about. Kanter can defend in the paint. David Lee used to avoid contact like the plague. Mostly jazzhands defense. Kanter lets the player he's defending, slam right into him, doesnt back down.

When it came to rebounds, Lee padded his stats, many of his rebounds were when both teams were running to the other side of the court. Kanter is a very aggressive rebounder, post player. Lee was all about finesse.

David Lee was soft Kanter isnt. Willy was David Lee, was saying that all season long.

sort of. If his position is good he has his moments. He certainly holds his ground and is physical. However he cant adjust at all and the minute he's even slightly out of position the opposing C gets such easy looks.

The #s dont lie... Opposing Cs have an effective FG% of .611
I mean he gets scored on at will
http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK21.HTM

He brings a lot of other things... the intensity, physical play and rebounding are keys and can really help. He's also young.

I love him as a 25mpg guy until we have a better two way player. I would not like to lose him for nothing but I would prefer that to paying him 4/$80mm

Look at his numbers in the paint vs, defending players out near the arc. Kanter spent last offseason shedding lbs, it paid off. New coach, new team, new schemes, new teammates. Sure didnt help his numbers playing with backups and g-leaguers. One serious injury after another, mostly from playing physical ball.

Id like to see how Kanter comes back next season. See if his D is better beyond tbe rim. See if we can put a rim protector next to him, while KP rehabs. We will miss that scoring and rebounding in the paint. Should have been able to use that to knock down more 3s, but we took too few, made too few.

if he opts out are you confident enough to give him an extension? I would think 4/$80m would be a starting point

I literally just spit my coffee up, are you nuts. Are you giving him that because of the cap being the highest it's ever been or are giving him that because of his worth.

You know how small the market is for a Center who's primary function doesn't include protecting the paint or shooting 3's.

Remember That contract he got now was base on OKC matching Portalnds offer.

The comparison to LEE is not all about stats, but impact, putting up big numbers but having almost no impact on the game and you still loose by 20.

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Kanter's defense isnt so bad that it negates his offense.

Yeah it is

GustavBaohler wrote:I guess you missed watching the many games this season, where the only player keeping us in the game was Kanter.

I can’t think of one game where Kanter carried the team. Maybe a Miami game. That’s it.

Oh the Xmas game where they lost

Which others?

I gotta go with martin on this, I have been saying all season he was DAVID LEE.

Now if you put Kanter around 4 or 5 really good defenders and a really good defensive coaching staff, you could hide his defensive flaws like the knicks did with Allan Houston.

His a good team guy and has a lot of heart, but he is not even 50% worth that 18 mill

I gotta go with you not knowing WTF youre talking about. Kanter can defend in the paint. David Lee used to avoid contact like the plague. Mostly jazzhands defense. Kanter lets the player he's defending, slam right into him, doesnt back down.

When it came to rebounds, Lee padded his stats, many of his rebounds were when both teams were running to the other side of the court. Kanter is a very aggressive rebounder, post player. Lee was all about finesse.

David Lee was soft Kanter isnt. Willy was David Lee, was saying that all season long.

sort of. If his position is good he has his moments. He certainly holds his ground and is physical. However he cant adjust at all and the minute he's even slightly out of position the opposing C gets such easy looks.

The #s dont lie... Opposing Cs have an effective FG% of .611
I mean he gets scored on at will
http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK21.HTM

He brings a lot of other things... the intensity, physical play and rebounding are keys and can really help. He's also young.

I love him as a 25mpg guy until we have a better two way player. I would not like to lose him for nothing but I would prefer that to paying him 4/$80mm

Look at his numbers in the paint vs, defending players out near the arc. Kanter spent last offseason shedding lbs, it paid off. New coach, new team, new schemes, new teammates. Sure didnt help his numbers playing with backups and g-leaguers. One serious injury after another, mostly from playing physical ball.

Id like to see how Kanter comes back next season. See if his D is better beyond tbe rim. See if we can put a rim protector next to him, while KP rehabs. We will miss that scoring and rebounding in the paint. Should have been able to use that to knock down more 3s, but we took too few, made too few.

if he opts out are you confident enough to give him an extension? I would think 4/$80m would be a starting point

If he opts out, I wouldnt want to see the Knicks get too generous. Id rather see Kanter opt in so the Knicks can have more of a look at him. Although Kanter played through injuries, the only one tbat gave me pause as a fan was his back issues. Kanter's style of play can tax a player's back. Id want to see the Knicks make sure it isnt a long term issue.

well yea... all that is nice but you arent writing that into a contract. I would like another year of him as well, even if its just as a stop gap and we use the space to sign someone else... but that doesnt answer my question. If he opts out you let him walk for nada or bite on 4/$80mm?

Opt in: TBD

Opt out: 3 years 20 mill, Team option year 4.

I don't understand this. Kanter has a $18.6M option for next year..... he would give that up for 3 years at $20M? Is that per or total?

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Kanter's defense isnt so bad that it negates his offense.

Yeah it is

GustavBaohler wrote:I guess you missed watching the many games this season, where the only player keeping us in the game was Kanter.

I can’t think of one game where Kanter carried the team. Maybe a Miami game. That’s it.

Oh the Xmas game where they lost

Which others?

I gotta go with martin on this, I have been saying all season he was DAVID LEE.

Now if you put Kanter around 4 or 5 really good defenders and a really good defensive coaching staff, you could hide his defensive flaws like the knicks did with Allan Houston.

His a good team guy and has a lot of heart, but he is not even 50% worth that 18 mill

I gotta go with you not knowing WTF youre talking about. Kanter can defend in the paint. David Lee used to avoid contact like the plague. Mostly jazzhands defense. Kanter lets the player he's defending, slam right into him, doesnt back down.

When it came to rebounds, Lee padded his stats, many of his rebounds were when both teams were running to the other side of the court. Kanter is a very aggressive rebounder, post player. Lee was all about finesse.

David Lee was soft Kanter isnt. Willy was David Lee, was saying that all season long.

sort of. If his position is good he has his moments. He certainly holds his ground and is physical. However he cant adjust at all and the minute he's even slightly out of position the opposing C gets such easy looks.

The #s dont lie... Opposing Cs have an effective FG% of .611
I mean he gets scored on at will
http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK21.HTM

He brings a lot of other things... the intensity, physical play and rebounding are keys and can really help. He's also young.

I love him as a 25mpg guy until we have a better two way player. I would not like to lose him for nothing but I would prefer that to paying him 4/$80mm

Look at his numbers in the paint vs, defending players out near the arc. Kanter spent last offseason shedding lbs, it paid off. New coach, new team, new schemes, new teammates. Sure didnt help his numbers playing with backups and g-leaguers. One serious injury after another, mostly from playing physical ball.

Id like to see how Kanter comes back next season. See if his D is better beyond tbe rim. See if we can put a rim protector next to him, while KP rehabs. We will miss that scoring and rebounding in the paint. Should have been able to use that to knock down more 3s, but we took too few, made too few.

if he opts out are you confident enough to give him an extension? I would think 4/$80m would be a starting point

If he opts out, I wouldnt want to see the Knicks get too generous. Id rather see Kanter opt in so the Knicks can have more of a look at him. Although Kanter played through injuries, the only one tbat gave me pause as a fan was his back issues. Kanter's style of play can tax a player's back. Id want to see the Knicks make sure it isnt a long term issue.

well yea... all that is nice but you arent writing that into a contract. I would like another year of him as well, even if its just as a stop gap and we use the space to sign someone else... but that doesnt answer my question. If he opts out you let him walk for nada or bite on 4/$80mm?

Opt in: TBD

Opt out: 3 years 20 mill, Team option year 4.

I don't understand this. Kanter has a $18.6M option for next year..... he would give that up for 3 years at $20M? Is that per or total?

My bad, its per. It would be a slight raise over what he's getting now. Perry/Mills said that they would really like to bring Kanter back, but he has to opt in. Dont believe they are entirely sold on Kanter, his perimeter D being an issue. Dont believe his lack of 3pt shooting is a big concern, because of his superior post play.

The idea would be to tell Kanter's agent that the Knicks were prepared to make an offer, a slight raise, to stay in NY if Kanter opts out. If Kanter opts in and shows he can be a better perimeter defender, the offer will be much more generous. Remind them that Fizdale will be emphasizing D, and they want to commit long term to players who fufill that vision.

Kanter might decline the offer, and thats fine. I thought there were some incompletes in what Kanter did in part because of injuries, KP gone, the drama. I want to see how his back holds up, if he can become a better all around defender, before seeing the Knicks commit to Kanter long term.

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Kanter's defense isnt so bad that it negates his offense.

Yeah it is

GustavBahler wrote:I guess you missed watching the many games this season, where the only player keeping us in the game was Kanter.

I can’t think of one game where Kanter carried the team. Maybe a Miami game. That’s it.

Oh the Xmas game where they lost

Which others?

As it relates to my original point of Kanter being often the only player standing between the Knicks and a blowout, absolutely. All those double/doubles had an impact. I dont know why you didnt notice. Again, its about matchups.

Kanter's D was better all around with KP. A string of early injuries, slowed him down some. Then KP was gone, and it was undersized big men, and G leaguers as his wingmen.

I don't quite understand your response.

I can't remember many games where Kanter's play impacted games. I listed 2 that I could recall, one was a win one was not. Can you recall any other?

Double doubles are nice but they certainly feel very empty. Kanter's D next to KP is more about KP than Kanter.

I don't even like THJr's defense but at least he had impact on many games, often carrying team either for half or full game and to wins. I just don't see that with Kanter.

And if you plan to give him anything above $10-15M per year, I would expect impact.

Vmart wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Vmart wrote:Knicks should let Kanter go and commit to Kornet. He plays much better defense and he is what today’s center is. Three ball, rebounding and defense.

Didnt play nearly enough to get that about Kornet's D, not even close to a full season. And his 3 point shooting trailed off as the season progressed. Kornet might make a good backup, 3 point shooting is the only place he has an edge over Kanter right now.

The only reason I would pass on Kanter is his asking price.

That’s been my gripe all along we saw something but nothing. That’s the failure of the Knicks. That is what really sucked about this past year. I know some are really hopped up. But there is no leg to stand on because no one saw enough of anything.

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Vmart wrote:Knicks should let Kanter go and commit to Kornet. He plays much better defense and he is what today’s center is. Three ball, rebounding and defense.

Didnt play nearly enough to get that about Kornet's D, not even close to a full season. And his 3 point shooting trailed off as the season progressed. Kornet might make a good backup, 3 point shooting is the only place he has an edge over Kanter right now.

The only reason I would pass on Kanter is his asking price.

That’s been my gripe all along we saw something but nothing. That’s the failure of the Knicks. That is what really sucked about this past year. I know some are really hopped up. But there is no leg to stand on because no one saw enough of anything.

I have to disagree. The knicks played the young guys a lot. Kornet might become a third center off the bench with development for an nba team but committing to him as your starting center would only be a temporary move if you were doing a Hinkie tank.

Your kidding yourself if you think they played the young players a lot.

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Vmart wrote:Knicks should let Kanter go and commit to Kornet. He plays much better defense and he is what today’s center is. Three ball, rebounding and defense.

Didnt play nearly enough to get that about Kornet's D, not even close to a full season. And his 3 point shooting trailed off as the season progressed. Kornet might make a good backup, 3 point shooting is the only place he has an edge over Kanter right now.

The only reason I would pass on Kanter is his asking price.

That’s been my gripe all along we saw something but nothing. That’s the failure of the Knicks. That is what really sucked about this past year. I know some are really hopped up. But there is no leg to stand on because no one saw enough of anything.

I have to disagree. The knicks played the young guys a lot. Kornet might become a third center off the bench with development for an nba team but committing to him as your starting center would only be a temporary move if you were doing a Hinkie tank.

Your kidding yourself if you think they played the young players a lot.

Two way players are only allowed to spend 45 days with an nba team. Kornet played in 20 games and I don't know if he will be around next year. Hicks played in 18 and probably shouldn't be around. We know Frank became tired during his first season in the nba so more minutes weren't an option for him. He still logged 1700 minutes. You might have a point with Dotson except that he played a lot in the g league. The Knick organization from the top on down is talking about having a developmental program. What that looks like for each young player might be different but I think they did a good job this past year with their young guys.

Those considered horrific numbers for a rebuilding team.

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Vmart wrote:Knicks should let Kanter go and commit to Kornet. He plays much better defense and he is what today’s center is. Three ball, rebounding and defense.

Didnt play nearly enough to get that about Kornet's D, not even close to a full season. And his 3 point shooting trailed off as the season progressed. Kornet might make a good backup, 3 point shooting is the only place he has an edge over Kanter right now.

The only reason I would pass on Kanter is his asking price.

That’s been my gripe all along we saw something but nothing. That’s the failure of the Knicks. That is what really sucked about this past year. I know some are really hopped up. But there is no leg to stand on because no one saw enough of anything.

I have to disagree. The knicks played the young guys a lot. Kornet might become a third center off the bench with development for an nba team but committing to him as your starting center would only be a temporary move if you were doing a Hinkie tank.

IMO he is the kinda of center you need in today's NBA. The game just needs to slow down for him

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Kanter's defense isnt so bad that it negates his offense.

Yeah it is

GustavBahler wrote:I guess you missed watching the many games this season, where the only player keeping us in the game was Kanter.

I can’t think of one game where Kanter carried the team. Maybe a Miami game. That’s it.

Oh the Xmas game where they lost

Which others?

As it relates to my original point of Kanter being often the only player standing between the Knicks and a blowout, absolutely. All those double/doubles had an impact. I dont know why you didnt notice. Again, its about matchups.

Kanter's D was better all around with KP. A string of early injuries, slowed him down some. Then KP was gone, and it was undersized big men, and G leaguers as his wingmen.

I don't quite understand your response.

I can't remember many games where Kanter's play impacted games. I listed 2 that I could recall, one was a win one was not. Can you recall any other?

Double doubles are nice but they certainly feel very empty. Kanter's D next to KP is more about KP than Kanter.

I don't even like THJr's defense but at least he had impact on many games, often carrying team either for half or full game and to wins. I just don't see that with Kanter.

And if you plan to give him anything above $10-15M per year, I would expect impact.

Not Kanter's call to sit in the 4th, did that alot. During the time he was alloted, Kanter kept the Knicks in the game. He made the most of his minutes. If Kanter wasnt putting up a double double by halftime, the game would already be over, not that complicated.

Same thing happened to Lopez with Fisher. Heard the same complaints Its why we cant hold on to decent big men. Wanting to find bigs who are already finished product, and at a discount.

I dont believe there is a center out there you guys will sign off on unless its Embiid or Towns. We have no starting backcourt to speak of, no starting SF of note. But lets jettison one good center after another, even though we are years from contending. Lets stick with G-leaguers.

Maybe third time will be a charm?

Let me know when you can find a game where Kanter had an impact. Maybe it's you who aren't really paying attention to the games.

Define "Impact"

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Kanter's defense isnt so bad that it negates his offense.

Yeah it is

GustavBahler wrote:I guess you missed watching the many games this season, where the only player keeping us in the game was Kanter.

I can’t think of one game where Kanter carried the team. Maybe a Miami game. That’s it.

Oh the Xmas game where they lost

Which others?

As it relates to my original point of Kanter being often the only player standing between the Knicks and a blowout, absolutely. All those double/doubles had an impact. I dont know why you didnt notice. Again, its about matchups.

Kanter's D was better all around with KP. A string of early injuries, slowed him down some. Then KP was gone, and it was undersized big men, and G leaguers as his wingmen.

I don't quite understand your response.

I can't remember many games where Kanter's play impacted games. I listed 2 that I could recall, one was a win one was not. Can you recall any other?

Double doubles are nice but they certainly feel very empty. Kanter's D next to KP is more about KP than Kanter.

I don't even like THJr's defense but at least he had impact on many games, often carrying team either for half or full game and to wins. I just don't see that with Kanter.

And if you plan to give him anything above $10-15M per year, I would expect impact.

Not Kanter's call to sit in the 4th, did that alot. During the time he was alloted, Kanter kept the Knicks in the game. He made the most of his minutes. If Kanter wasnt putting up a double double by halftime, the game would already be over, not that complicated.

Same thing happened to Lopez with Fisher. Heard the same complaints Its why we cant hold on to decent big men. Wanting to find bigs who are already finished product, and at a discount.

I dont believe there is a center out there you guys will sign off on unless its Embiid or Towns. We have no starting backcourt to speak of, no starting SF of note. But lets jettison one good center after another, even though we are years from contending. Lets stick with G-leaguers.

Maybe third time will be a charm?

Let me know when you can find a game where Kanter had an impact. Maybe it's you who aren't really paying attention to the games.

Define "Impact"

Like key player on route to a win

Sounds like you are refering to a "closer". Kanter really didnt have much of an opportunity to do that. After Fisher was fired, Lopez was allowed to play consistent minutes in the 4th, and went on a tear. The jury is still out on Kanter IMO.

Believe we have seen enough of what Kanter can do to take the heat off of the backcourt, which needs a lot of work and development.

The players we need to worry about closing are mostly in the backcourt, which includes PGs getting Kanter the ball where he can do the most damage.

The money you are saying is in the range we should offer Kanter now, is what were paying Lopez 3 years ago, and that was considered a bargain.

Kanter would have an expiring contract in 2 years, if he didnt improve enough. Year 3 with Fizdale (we hope) on a successful rebuild would allow the Knicks either to let Kanter walk, and upgrade if possible, or take the team option and make a run if the Knicks are ready by that point.

Want to see if Kanter can take his game to the next level, while KP rehabs. They looked real solid early on, were starting to play a 2 man game. Want to see what they can do as a tandem after KP gets back, and probably an even better player.

These are rebuilding years, we are likely drafting for the backcourt. Good time to give Kanter a shot.