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Missing D Mitchell will go down in KNick lore
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Nalod
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4/24/2018  11:47 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Ass holes who don't do their homework get left behind.

I was watching that game last night thinking the same damn thing. How do you pick frank over mitchell is beyond stupidity, and this is the FO you trust to draft for your team.

We could have had Rubio (if we traded rose last season) and mitchell as our back court along with KP..That's a FO thats savvy.

We signed Raymond Session, jack, and thj instead..LMAO

Sixers, Lakers, Celtics, Suns, Kings, Magic, TWolves, Knicks, Mavs, Kings again, Hornets, Pistons all passed on Mitchell. How do you think the Nuggets feel? They picked him then traded his rights to Utah.

I guess it will go down also in the "Sixers, Lakers, Celtics, Suns, Kings, Magic, TWolves, Knicks, Mavs, Kings again, Hornets, Pistons, Nuggets Lore"

Aside from the magic, all of those teams had legit Guards on their roster , we had nobody at the PG or sg going into the draft, and to sit up there and pick a sure nuff 4 yr project when you need a starter is dumb..

How many of those teams drafted guards despite having "Legit" guards?
Its easy to transpose back in time with current knowledge and call it "dumb and stupid".
Your assuming you know then what you know now.

AUTOADVERT
Knixkik
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4/24/2018  11:52 AM
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Ass holes who don't do their homework get left behind.

I was watching that game last night thinking the same damn thing. How do you pick frank over mitchell is beyond stupidity, and this is the FO you trust to draft for your team.

We could have had Rubio (if we traded rose last season) and mitchell as our back court along with KP..That's a FO thats savvy.

We signed Raymond Session, jack, and thj instead..LMAO

Sixers, Lakers, Celtics, Suns, Kings, Magic, TWolves, Knicks, Mavs, Kings again, Hornets, Pistons all passed on Mitchell. How do you think the Nuggets feel? They picked him then traded his rights to Utah.

I guess it will go down also in the "Sixers, Lakers, Celtics, Suns, Kings, Magic, TWolves, Knicks, Mavs, Kings again, Hornets, Pistons, Nuggets Lore"

Aside from the magic, all of those teams had legit Guards on their roster , we had nobody at the PG or sg going into the draft, and to sit up there and pick a sure nuff 4 yr project when you need a starter is dumb..

How many of those teams drafted guards despite having "Legit" guards?
Its easy to transpose back in time with current knowledge and call it "dumb and stupid".
Your assuming you know then what you know now.

Orlando is the team that really keeps screwing themselves. They miss on literally every pick. The one they wanted was Porzingis and missed by 1 slot. Orlando drafts a bunch of big forwards with overlapping skills and pass on players who fit a need and end up being stars. They have been in the lottery every year forever and still have no true building blocks to show for it.

NYKBocker
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4/24/2018  11:54 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Ass holes who don't do their homework get left behind.

I was watching that game last night thinking the same damn thing. How do you pick frank over mitchell is beyond stupidity, and this is the FO you trust to draft for your team.

We could have had Rubio (if we traded rose last season) and mitchell as our back court along with KP..That's a FO thats savvy.

We signed Raymond Session, jack, and thj instead..LMAO

Sixers, Lakers, Celtics, Suns, Kings, Magic, TWolves, Knicks, Mavs, Kings again, Hornets, Pistons all passed on Mitchell. How do you think the Nuggets feel? They picked him then traded his rights to Utah.

I guess it will go down also in the "Sixers, Lakers, Celtics, Suns, Kings, Magic, TWolves, Knicks, Mavs, Kings again, Hornets, Pistons, Nuggets Lore"

Aside from the magic, all of those teams had legit Guards on their roster , we had nobody at the PG or sg going into the draft, and to sit up there and pick a sure nuff 4 yr project when you need a starter is dumb..

So you are saying Portland did it right by picking Sam Bowie since they already have Clyde Drexler?

knicks1248
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4/24/2018  12:16 PM
NYKBocker wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Ass holes who don't do their homework get left behind.

I was watching that game last night thinking the same damn thing. How do you pick frank over mitchell is beyond stupidity, and this is the FO you trust to draft for your team.

We could have had Rubio (if we traded rose last season) and mitchell as our back court along with KP..That's a FO thats savvy.

We signed Raymond Session, jack, and thj instead..LMAO

Sixers, Lakers, Celtics, Suns, Kings, Magic, TWolves, Knicks, Mavs, Kings again, Hornets, Pistons all passed on Mitchell. How do you think the Nuggets feel? They picked him then traded his rights to Utah.

I guess it will go down also in the "Sixers, Lakers, Celtics, Suns, Kings, Magic, TWolves, Knicks, Mavs, Kings again, Hornets, Pistons, Nuggets Lore"

Aside from the magic, all of those teams had legit Guards on their roster , we had nobody at the PG or sg going into the draft, and to sit up there and pick a sure nuff 4 yr project when you need a starter is dumb..

So you are saying Portland did it right by picking Sam Bowie since they already have Clyde Drexler?

those team pick needs over talent, your not going to darft derick rose when have john wall

ES
BigDaddyG
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4/24/2018  12:19 PM
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Ass holes who don't do their homework get left behind.

I was watching that game last night thinking the same damn thing. How do you pick frank over mitchell is beyond stupidity, and this is the FO you trust to draft for your team.

We could have had Rubio (if we traded rose last season) and mitchell as our back court along with KP..That's a FO thats savvy.

We signed Raymond Session, jack, and thj instead..LMAO

Sixers, Lakers, Celtics, Suns, Kings, Magic, TWolves, Knicks, Mavs, Kings again, Hornets, Pistons all passed on Mitchell. How do you think the Nuggets feel? They picked him then traded his rights to Utah.

I guess it will go down also in the "Sixers, Lakers, Celtics, Suns, Kings, Magic, TWolves, Knicks, Mavs, Kings again, Hornets, Pistons, Nuggets Lore"

Aside from the magic, all of those teams had legit Guards on their roster , we had nobody at the PG or sg going into the draft, and to sit up there and pick a sure nuff 4 yr project when you need a starter is dumb..

How many of those teams drafted guards despite having "Legit" guards?
Its easy to transpose back in time with current knowledge and call it "dumb and stupid".
Your assuming you know then what you know now.


Heck, Mitchell was considered a project who would need years to develop. Mitchell has acknowledged that he improved a lot during the summer due to the fact that he could focus more on his game. There's a reason why teams whiffed. No one saw Mitchell succeeding this early. No watch more teams screw up their future picks trying to find the next Donovan Mitchell. This is from his DraftX profile. Looking at it, you can get a sense of the work he put in:
Donovan Mitchell - The 3 & D Guard Gaining steam through the workout and interview process, Donovan Mitchell has a chance to land in the lottery as a 3 and D style off guard who can serve as a secondary ball handler in a pinch, given his improved pick and roll scoring and off the dribble shooting. With a 211-pound frame and a 6'10 wingspan, Mitchell can defend either guard spot, and even check some threes versus smaller lineups. A high-character athlete with culture-changing personality and work ethic, Mitchell should be able to survive anywhere from a mentality standpoint, but the basketball fit will be important in order to maximize his potential. He's a ways away from being able to run an NBA team, as his feel for the game could still use some work, so putting him in a position to focus on defending, making open shots, getting downhill in space, moving off the ball, and being an athlete in transition will be key, similar to Norman Powell's development situation in Toronto.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
franco12
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4/24/2018  12:20 PM
the one thing I'll say about Mitchell was he grew up in our back yard - and the problem I have with our FO is we should be spending more on scouts than any other franchise. We should be scouting JR Highschool games here in the US, China and Europe. If some kid grows 6 inches and plays basketball, we should be the first ones to know about it.

We have always spent on FA and won nothing.

Yet, why don't we have a 1000 college scouts on our payroll? Am I missing a restriction on NBA teams?

I'll give it to Phil and the Knicks lately for finding some undrafted gems like L Galloway.

Teams like San Antonio always find gems in the later first round, second round. Us, we draft Cleanthony Early for F Sake!

smackeddog
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4/24/2018  12:27 PM
GustavBahler wrote:If we drafted a rookie PG who put up 15/5/5/1 his first year in the league under a very demanding coach, most here would have been psyched. Thats what Smith jr. did his rookie year, in spite of some posters trying to paint him as an And1 freak show.

If we get Budenholzer, I believe the sky's the limit for Frank. Might even be able to make a PG out of him.

Mitchell wins games, Dennis Smith Jr doesn't really (at this stage)- it always felt like he put up empty stats that had no bearing on the game. Thats why I'm not sweating passing up on DS Jr, however I am bummed that we missed out on Mitchell.

BigDaddyG
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4/24/2018  12:31 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/24/2018  12:46 PM
franco12 wrote:the one thing I'll say about Mitchell was he grew up in our back yard - and the problem I have with our FO is we should be spending more on scouts than any other franchise. We should be scouting JR Highschool games here in the US, China and Europe. If some kid grows 6 inches and plays basketball, we should be the first ones to know about it.

We have always spent on FA and won nothing.

Yet, why don't we have a 1000 college scouts on our payroll? Am I missing a restriction on NBA teams?

I'll give it to Phil and the Knicks lately for finding some undrafted gems like L Galloway.

Teams like San Antonio always find gems in the later first round, second round. Us, we draft Cleanthony Early for F Sake!


Mitchell wasn't where he is now according to Jonathan Givony. He wasn't in the greatest shape and his offense was rudimentary. No need to berate the scouts. We had him in for a number of workouts before the draft.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
BigDaddyG
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4/24/2018  12:35 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/24/2018  12:46 PM
smackeddog wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:If we drafted a rookie PG who put up 15/5/5/1 his first year in the league under a very demanding coach, most here would have been psyched. Thats what Smith jr. did his rookie year, in spite of some posters trying to paint him as an And1 freak show.

If we get Budenholzer, I believe the sky's the limit for Frank. Might even be able to make a PG out of him.

Mitchell wins games, Dennis Smith Jr doesn't really (at this stage)- it always felt like he put up empty stats that had no bearing on the game. Thats why I'm not sweating passing up on DS Jr, however I am bummed that we missed out on Mitchell.

Yeah, that 15 and 5 wouldn't have cut it in on a winning team once you look at efficiency etc. Right now, he still is kind of an And1 freakshow. He's young and has potential, but the stats are a bit overblown in his situation.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Nalod
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4/24/2018  12:39 PM
Its so important to understand those role players in SAS excel because they fit into an existing system/culture/core.
Mitchell excel in part of the role players and roster construction. ALso, he plays next to Rubio who is healthy a full season and a very unselfish player.
Maybe, just maybe Frank is also not just a good player, but a future "Enabler" core player.
Mitchell I doubt excel's with knicks like he did with Jazz this past season because of our status.
GustavBahler
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4/24/2018  12:56 PM
smackeddog wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:If we drafted a rookie PG who put up 15/5/5/1 his first year in the league under a very demanding coach, most here would have been psyched. Thats what Smith jr. did his rookie year, in spite of some posters trying to paint him as an And1 freak show.

If we get Budenholzer, I believe the sky's the limit for Frank. Might even be able to make a PG out of him.

Mitchell wins games, Dennis Smith Jr doesn't really (at this stage)- it always felt like he put up empty stats that had no bearing on the game. Thats why I'm not sweating passing up on DS Jr, however I am bummed that we missed out on Mitchell.

If you expected a rookie to carry an 80 year old Dirk to the playoffs, then its you who needs to readjust expectations. One big flush for this notion that all of Frank's numbers had some golden halo over them, while DSJ was scheming his way to inflated stats. On a team with one of the toughest coaches in the league.

From everything Ive seen, read, Smith handled his rookie season the way you would want to as a coach and as a fan.

Knixkik
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4/24/2018  12:58 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:If we drafted a rookie PG who put up 15/5/5/1 his first year in the league under a very demanding coach, most here would have been psyched. Thats what Smith jr. did his rookie year, in spite of some posters trying to paint him as an And1 freak show.

If we get Budenholzer, I believe the sky's the limit for Frank. Might even be able to make a PG out of him.

Mitchell wins games, Dennis Smith Jr doesn't really (at this stage)- it always felt like he put up empty stats that had no bearing on the game. Thats why I'm not sweating passing up on DS Jr, however I am bummed that we missed out on Mitchell.

Yeah, that 15 and 5 wouldn't have cut it in on a winning team once you look at efficiency etc. Right now, he still is kind of an And1 freakshow. He's young and has potential, but the stats are a bit overblown in his situation.

DSjr was inefficient offensively and poor defensively. Even if he becomes a very good scorer, he still probably remains a 1-way player. Mitchell is a 2 way star. Frank at least has 2-way potential that Smith doesn't have.

GustavBahler
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4/24/2018  1:09 PM
Knixkik wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:If we drafted a rookie PG who put up 15/5/5/1 his first year in the league under a very demanding coach, most here would have been psyched. Thats what Smith jr. did his rookie year, in spite of some posters trying to paint him as an And1 freak show.

If we get Budenholzer, I believe the sky's the limit for Frank. Might even be able to make a PG out of him.

Mitchell wins games, Dennis Smith Jr doesn't really (at this stage)- it always felt like he put up empty stats that had no bearing on the game. Thats why I'm not sweating passing up on DS Jr, however I am bummed that we missed out on Mitchell.

Yeah, that 15 and 5 wouldn't have cut it in on a winning team once you look at efficiency etc. Right now, he still is kind of an And1 freakshow. He's young and has potential, but the stats are a bit overblown in his situation.

DSjr was inefficient offensively and poor defensively. Even if he becomes a very good scorer, he still probably remains a 1-way player. Mitchell is a 2 way star. Frank at least has 2-way potential that Smith doesn't have.

You were much more forgiving of Frank's shooting. DSJ was given the keys to the offense, Frank was brought along very deliberately, to the point of being babied. Considering his age and distance from home some of it was necessary. Smith jr. was given much more responsibility from day one, about the same age, and he puts up very good numbers.

Efficiency? Got to be kidding me given all that was on DSJ's plate as a rook.

BigDaddyG
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4/24/2018  1:24 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:If we drafted a rookie PG who put up 15/5/5/1 his first year in the league under a very demanding coach, most here would have been psyched. Thats what Smith jr. did his rookie year, in spite of some posters trying to paint him as an And1 freak show.

If we get Budenholzer, I believe the sky's the limit for Frank. Might even be able to make a PG out of him.

Mitchell wins games, Dennis Smith Jr doesn't really (at this stage)- it always felt like he put up empty stats that had no bearing on the game. Thats why I'm not sweating passing up on DS Jr, however I am bummed that we missed out on Mitchell.

Yeah, that 15 and 5 wouldn't have cut it in on a winning team once you look at efficiency etc. Right now, he still is kind of an And1 freakshow. He's young and has potential, but the stats are a bit overblown in his situation.

DSjr was inefficient offensively and poor defensively. Even if he becomes a very good scorer, he still probably remains a 1-way player. Mitchell is a 2 way star. Frank at least has 2-way potential that Smith doesn't have.

You were much more forgiving of Frank's shooting. DSJ was given the keys to the offense, Frank was brought along very deliberately, to the point of being babied. Considering his age and distance from home some of it was necessary. Smith jr. was given much more responsibility from day one, about the same age, and he puts up very good numbers.

Efficiency? Got to be kidding me given all that was on DSJ's plate as a rook.


As of now, they both have a lot to work on coming into next season. It's all about context. DSJ had JJ barea, Devin Harris and Yogi to help him along. We had Jarret Jack for most of the season. Frank was playing on a team that was in the playoff hunt for a bit. Dallas had no such concerns. They both had tough rookie seasons. My only point is that DSJs number weren't very good. Frank's were horrible, I agree. But he excelled in one area of the game at least. DSJ had good box score stats, but he doesn't contribute them in a way leads to winning, yet.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Paris907
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4/24/2018  1:34 PM
Briggs. Yes and so many are missed too 10 every year. Briggs we love you but a checkup from the neck up may be in store :)
wargames
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4/24/2018  2:13 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/24/2018  2:14 PM
Why? so many teams picked before he was picked. I could understand the Curry situation, but that was because we clearly wanted him and he was taken the spot before us.

I know we're not a fanbase use to having draft picks...... but this happens all the time, and other franchises don't internalize it as their team sucking. Let it go

Edit: Oh Wait Briggs made this thread I should of known it was nonsense.........

The algorithm gives and the algorithm takes away
knicks1248
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4/24/2018  3:10 PM
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Ass holes who don't do their homework get left behind.

I was watching that game last night thinking the same damn thing. How do you pick frank over mitchell is beyond stupidity, and this is the FO you trust to draft for your team.

We could have had Rubio (if we traded rose last season) and mitchell as our back court along with KP..That's a FO thats savvy.

We signed Raymond Session, jack, and thj instead..LMAO

Sixers, Lakers, Celtics, Suns, Kings, Magic, TWolves, Knicks, Mavs, Kings again, Hornets, Pistons all passed on Mitchell. How do you think the Nuggets feel? They picked him then traded his rights to Utah.

I guess it will go down also in the "Sixers, Lakers, Celtics, Suns, Kings, Magic, TWolves, Knicks, Mavs, Kings again, Hornets, Pistons, Nuggets Lore"

Aside from the magic, all of those teams had legit Guards on their roster , we had nobody at the PG or sg going into the draft, and to sit up there and pick a sure nuff 4 yr project when you need a starter is dumb..

How many of those teams drafted guards despite having "Legit" guards?
Its easy to transpose back in time with current knowledge and call it "dumb and stupid".
Your assuming you know then what you know now.

I would have the right people around to inform me of my better options, that is what mills was suppose to be for phil, but they honestly had tunnel vision when it came to frank.

BUT THIS REALLY EXPLAINS IT ALL

That’s at least according to ESPN’s Jay Williams, who said during Thursday’s “Outside the Lines” that one top prospect said Jackson was dozing off during his workout for the team.

"A top-15 draft pick told me the other day, because we were involved in this conversation about Phil Jackson and the Knicks, and he said, 'Phil Jackson was falling in and out of sleep during my workout,’" Williams said, not naming the player during the discussion.

ES
MS
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4/24/2018  3:14 PM
This kid is Wade reincarnated, he's that good. He's averaging 25pts in the playoffs as a rookie, only Michael Jordan ever put up numbers like that in his first year.

Maybe Frank turns into a decent player, but he is a below average athlete with no explosion, with his size and wingspan he should be getting to the rim at will and finishing strong.

Mitchell is a franchise player and more importantly we wouldn't be stuck with Hardaway if we had him. Probably wouldn't have been able to get us to the playoffs, but we would have two stars to build with and he could have changed the direction of the franchise.

No one is excited about the future prospect of this team for the 16th year in a row.

joec32033
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4/24/2018  3:19 PM
Nalod wrote:I feel bad for some of you.
Lamenting the same thing over and over.......
14 other teams passed on Mitchell. Every year there are guys that do this.
But with you its "Knicks" passed over.

Utah miscued with Exum, makes it up with Mitchell.
They lost Haywood for nothing, made the room for Mitchell when the opportunity presented.
Philly missed with Noel and Oka4, makes it up with simmons and Emiiiiiiiid.
LA takes Russell, Philly takes Oka4, we get KP.
See how this works?
Measurments? You think that's how we decided?
BTW, y'all were on fire for smith or Monk. Mitchell was "Liked", but few are as excited about him as they are after he breaks out.

+1. Truth.

~You can't run from who you are.~
MS
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4/24/2018  3:22 PM
I think the issue is, outside of KP when have we done anything right?

It's all well and good if over the past 10 years you can point to something and say, yes we made it up there. Or that was a great trade, but there hasn't been one.

Missing D Mitchell will go down in KNick lore

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