Couple of points:

- Lots of stupid/ignorant/racist people out there in America
- I was shocked to read about how quickly this transpired (within minutes of these guys getting into the store... 2 minutes?!)
- How can professionally trained police officers act this way?
- Seems like Starbucks CEO is handling this as best he can

Discuss.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/black-men-speak-out-starbucks-arrest_us_5ad8809fe4b0e4d0715dc393

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/missydepino/status/984539713016094721

Black Men Arrested At Starbucks Said They Were There For 2 Minutes Before 911 Call

“We wasn’t read any rights ― nothing,” said Donte Robinson. “Just double-lock handcuffs behind our backs and escorted out and put into a squad car.”

The two black men arrested at a Starbucks in Philadelphia last week while waiting for a friend spoke out publicly for the first time Thursday, revealing the store manager called 911 two minutes after they arrived.

Rashon Nelson and Donte Robinson walked into the Starbucks on April 12 at approximately 4:35 p.m., they told ABC’s “Good Morning America.” Nelson said he immediately asked the store manager if he could use the bathroom, but was told restrooms were for paying customers only.

Nelson said he “left it at that” and joined Robinson at a table to wait for their friend to arrive for their scheduled 4:45 p.m. business meeting. The Starbucks manager then approached the men and asked if they wanted to order something, according to Robinson, and they declined.

At 4:37 p.m., approximately two minutes after they had arrived, the manager called 911.

″They can’t be here for us,” said Robinson, recalling his initial reaction when police officers entered the Starbucks a few minutes later.

“As soon as they approached us, they just said we had to leave,” Nelson said. “There was no question of, you know, ’Was there a problem here between you and the manager? [or] ‘What happened?’”

Police didn’t explain why they were being arrested, Robinson said.

“We wasn’t read any rights ― nothing,” Robinson said. “Just double-lock handcuffs behind our backs and escorted out and put into a squad car.”

Video showing the men’s arrests went viral over the weekend, sparking protests at the store and calls to boycott Starbucks.

“The police were called because these men hadn’t ordered anything,” Melissa DePino, a writer who recorded the incident, tweeted last week. “They were waiting for a friend to show up, who did as they were taken out in handcuffs for doing nothing. All the other white ppl are wondering why it’s never happened to us when we do the same thing.”

The store manager who called 911 has since left the company, according to Starbucks. Company CEO Kevin Johnson has publicly apologized and vowed to “fix” the issue, in part with more training for store managers on company guidelines and unconscious bias.

Nelson and Robinson spent hours in a jail cell after their arrests, The Associated Press reported. They were released around midnight after the district attorney declined to prosecute them for trespassing.

“You go from being someone who’s just trying to be an entrepreneur, having your own dreams and aspirations, and then this happens,” Nelson told AP. “How do you handle it? Do you stand up? Do you fight? Do you sit down and just watch everyone else fight for you? Do you let it slide, like we let everything else slide with injustice?”

The two men are now involved in mediation with Starbucks, which they hope will lead to lasting change, such as requiring a customer bill of rights to be posted in stores and new policies for customer ejections and racial profiling.

“This is something that has been going on for years and everyone’s blind to it, but they know what’s going on, if you get what I mean” Nelson said. He added that he and Robinson hope to “help people understand that it’s not just a black people thing ― it’s a people thing. That’s what we want to see out of this and that’s true change.”

martin wrote:Couple of points:
...
- How can professionally trained police officers act this way?
- Seems like Starbucks CEO is handling this as best he can

I'm no fan of the cops... I'm a straight white protestant male and have my fair share of BS interactions with them. For example, (long story short) I got pulled over "did nothing wrong" and now have a court date because the DMV never mailed mailed me a notice. My attorney said I have nothing to worry about, but (1) I had to frigin hire an attorney and (2) in theory I could spend a year behind bars... all because a cop decided to run my tags despite him stating "don't worry you have nothing to worry about" (while there is a record of DMV getting their mail returned and never trying again). I'm a white dude and I don't have to deal with 1/10 of the bull**** black guys have to deal with...

... that said, I don't see how the cops did anything wrong. The cops here handled it the way they should... it's sort of up to the social systems to redefine how the cops carry out their business. I have ZERO interest in letting the cops make more decisions based upon their discretion. I would rather more capable people decide on what tasks they're supposed to carry out. Because in my experience, whenever a cop gets to use their discretion, they **** it up

as for the Starbucks CEO, I am impressed with his quick decision making and for taking accountability for his racist store manager's actions. That said, I'm not going to give him credit for a response to a massive failure. I understand they want paying customers to piss in their bathrooms but I mean come on... I've used the restroom in Starbucks without paying at multiple locations. Those guys did not look homeless or like addicts. They just got singled out because they're black. And Starbucks allowed their culture to become that. I am not a big fan of their burnt ass coffee, but this makes it easy to not go here unless I have to drop a deuce and have no other options and I would hope others use this as an opportunity to buy their coffee at a local shop wherever possible

martin wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

martin wrote:Couple of points:
...
- How can professionally trained police officers act this way?
- Seems like Starbucks CEO is handling this as best he can

I'm no fan of the cops... I'm a straight white protestant male and have my fair share of BS interactions with them. For example, (long story short) I got pulled over "did nothing wrong" and now have a court date because the DMV never mailed mailed me a notice. My attorney said I have nothing to worry about, but (1) I had to frigin hire an attorney and (2) in theory I could spend a year behind bars... all because a cop decided to run my tags despite him stating "don't worry you have nothing to worry about" (while there is a record of DMV getting their mail returned and never trying again). I'm a white dude and I don't have to deal with 1/10 of the bull**** black guys have to deal with...

... that said, I don't see how the cops did anything wrong. The cops here handled it the way they should... it's sort of up to the social systems to redefine how the cops carry out their business. I have ZERO interest in letting the cops make more decisions based upon their discretion. I would rather more capable people decide on what tasks they're supposed to carry out. Because in my experience, whenever a cop gets to use their discretion, they **** it up

as for the Starbucks CEO, I am impressed with his quick decision making and for taking accountability for his racist store manager's actions. That said, I'm not going to give him credit for a response to a massive failure. I understand they want paying customers to piss in their bathrooms but I mean come on... I've used the restroom in Starbucks without paying at multiple locations. Those guys did not look homeless or like addicts. They just got singled out because they're black. And Starbucks allowed their culture to become that. I am not a big fan of their burnt ass coffee, but this makes it easy to not go here unless I have to drop a deuce and have no other options and I would hope others use this as an opportunity to buy their coffee at a local shop wherever possible

So, it's OK for cops to handcuff people and take them off, let them spend up to 6-8 hours in jail for nothing?

This is acceptable behavior to you? Would you have been OK after being pulled over and spent time in handcuffs and in jail?

I didn't realize they had spent that length of time in jail (or at all)... I assumed they had effectively been escorted out and cut loose

so, yes, I have problem with that and retract my previous comemnts

now I get to flip it on you -- why are you so quick to throw the book at the cops, yet are applauding Starbucks c-suite?

martin wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

martin wrote:Couple of points:
...
- How can professionally trained police officers act this way?
- Seems like Starbucks CEO is handling this as best he can

I'm no fan of the cops... I'm a straight white protestant male and have my fair share of BS interactions with them. For example, (long story short) I got pulled over "did nothing wrong" and now have a court date because the DMV never mailed mailed me a notice. My attorney said I have nothing to worry about, but (1) I had to frigin hire an attorney and (2) in theory I could spend a year behind bars... all because a cop decided to run my tags despite him stating "don't worry you have nothing to worry about" (while there is a record of DMV getting their mail returned and never trying again). I'm a white dude and I don't have to deal with 1/10 of the bull**** black guys have to deal with...

... that said, I don't see how the cops did anything wrong. The cops here handled it the way they should... it's sort of up to the social systems to redefine how the cops carry out their business. I have ZERO interest in letting the cops make more decisions based upon their discretion. I would rather more capable people decide on what tasks they're supposed to carry out. Because in my experience, whenever a cop gets to use their discretion, they **** it up

as for the Starbucks CEO, I am impressed with his quick decision making and for taking accountability for his racist store manager's actions. That said, I'm not going to give him credit for a response to a massive failure. I understand they want paying customers to piss in their bathrooms but I mean come on... I've used the restroom in Starbucks without paying at multiple locations. Those guys did not look homeless or like addicts. They just got singled out because they're black. And Starbucks allowed their culture to become that. I am not a big fan of their burnt ass coffee, but this makes it easy to not go here unless I have to drop a deuce and have no other options and I would hope others use this as an opportunity to buy their coffee at a local shop wherever possible

So, it's OK for cops to handcuff people and take them off, let them spend up to 6-8 hours in jail for nothing?

This is acceptable behavior to you? Would you have been OK after being pulled over and spent time in handcuffs and in jail?

Starbucks manager calls cops: I have two men who refuse to leave. Both black, 30s.
Cops come into store...
Cop: Sir... we understand you have been asked to leave and are refusing. This is trespassing.
Guy: Ah... no, we just asked to use the bathroom. The manager asked if we were ordering anything. We may or may not, but first are waiting for our friend to arrive.

....at this point any number of outcomes that are more constructive than being locked up for hours and cuffed. However none of those outcomes are possible when the first thing you do is tell the guy to stand and put his hands behind his back.

The good thing is these guys will be paid handsomely for how they were treated and they should. If I were them I would sue Starbucks and the cops at the same time and let me tell you that is going to be a pricey check.

THAT is how change comes... when it hits people in the wallet. Good luck fellas! Your new biz is getting some nice funding.

SupremeCommander wrote:

martin wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

martin wrote:Couple of points:
...
- How can professionally trained police officers act this way?
- Seems like Starbucks CEO is handling this as best he can

I'm no fan of the cops... I'm a straight white protestant male and have my fair share of BS interactions with them. For example, (long story short) I got pulled over "did nothing wrong" and now have a court date because the DMV never mailed mailed me a notice. My attorney said I have nothing to worry about, but (1) I had to frigin hire an attorney and (2) in theory I could spend a year behind bars... all because a cop decided to run my tags despite him stating "don't worry you have nothing to worry about" (while there is a record of DMV getting their mail returned and never trying again). I'm a white dude and I don't have to deal with 1/10 of the bull**** black guys have to deal with...

... that said, I don't see how the cops did anything wrong. The cops here handled it the way they should... it's sort of up to the social systems to redefine how the cops carry out their business. I have ZERO interest in letting the cops make more decisions based upon their discretion. I would rather more capable people decide on what tasks they're supposed to carry out. Because in my experience, whenever a cop gets to use their discretion, they **** it up

as for the Starbucks CEO, I am impressed with his quick decision making and for taking accountability for his racist store manager's actions. That said, I'm not going to give him credit for a response to a massive failure. I understand they want paying customers to piss in their bathrooms but I mean come on... I've used the restroom in Starbucks without paying at multiple locations. Those guys did not look homeless or like addicts. They just got singled out because they're black. And Starbucks allowed their culture to become that. I am not a big fan of their burnt ass coffee, but this makes it easy to not go here unless I have to drop a deuce and have no other options and I would hope others use this as an opportunity to buy their coffee at a local shop wherever possible

So, it's OK for cops to handcuff people and take them off, let them spend up to 6-8 hours in jail for nothing?

This is acceptable behavior to you? Would you have been OK after being pulled over and spent time in handcuffs and in jail?

I didn't realize they had spent that length of time in jail (or at all)... I assumed they had effectively been escorted out and cut loose

so, yes, I have problem with that and retract my previous comemnts

now I get to flip it on you -- why are you so quick to throw the book at the cops, yet are applauding Starbucks c-suite?

Ah yes, I do see that this particular article did not include that the 2 fella spent until either 1230 or 130AM in jail.

As to Starbucks c-suite, how can they be personally responsible for the individual actions of each and every employee? I would understand if there was a continued and fairly well known action/inaction on their behalf as executives of a company, but I haven't heard of this.

The cops are trained professionals whose basic jobs are to navigate this exact scenario and to use basic judgement about how to proceed. Now, I'm not a cop so maybe they were following protocol? If this was the case, we can reasonably assume that cops can arrest, handcuff and proceed to do about 6-8 hours of busy work while people sit in jail for just about ANY situation out there?

All I know about the Starbucks CEO - and this is in particular to this situation - is that he is going WAAAAYYY overboard and taking some giant leaps steps to rectify (also details not in the article).

http://money.cnn.com/2018/04/17/news/companies/starbucks-store-closings-racial-bias-education/index.html

Starbucks says it will close its 8,000 company-owned stores in the United States for one afternoon to educate employees about racial bias.

The announcement follows an uproar over the arrest of two black men who were waiting for a friend at a Philadelphia Starbucks last week. The store manager called the police.

The racial bias training will be provided on May 29 to about 175,000 workers.

"I've spent the last few days in Philadelphia with my leadership team listening to the community, learning what we did wrong and the steps we need to take to fix it," Starbucks CEO Kevin Johnson said in a statement.

"While this is not limited to Starbucks, we're committed to being a part of the solution," he said. "Closing our stores for racial bias training is just one step in a journey that requires dedication from every level of our company and partnerships in our local communities."

Starbucks says the training will be developed with guidance from experts including former Attorney General Eric Holder.

Sherrilyn Ifill, the president of the NAACP Legal Defense and Education Fund, and Jonathan Greenblatt, CEO of the Anti-Defamation League, will also help design the program, as will executives from the Equal Justice Initiative and Demos, the progressive think tank.

The experts will also review the effectiveness of the training, Starbucks said.

Related: Starbucks CEO meets with two black men arrested at Philadelphia store

The two men entered the Starbucks on Thursday and asked to use to the bathroom. An employee told them it was only for paying customers. When they then sat in the store without ordering anything, the manager called police, and the men were arrested for trespassing. No charges were filed.

Johnson met with the two men on Monday and apologized for how they were treated, a company spokesperson said.

The company says the manager who called the police is no longer working at that store. Starbucks would not comment on other reports that she has left the company by mutual agreement.

Separately, a Facebook video taken in January at a Starbucks in California shows a black customer saying that he was not allowed to use the bathroom when a white customer was.

No idea how accurate this is:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/what-starbucks-said-the-last-time-it-closed-its-stores-for-an-afternoon-2018-04-17

The one-afternoon store closures Starbucks Inc. announced Tuesday for racial-bias employee training will cost the company about $12 million in lost revenue, according to MarketWatch calculations.

Factoring in the company’s $22.39 billion in annual sales, and dividing it by the number of days in the year, but not adjusting for the relative strength of particular days and dayparts, suggests that Starbucks banks about $61.3 million every day. Since, according to the announcement, Starbucks locations will close only for part of the afternoon, MarketWatch has calculated that locations could lose about 20% of their daily revenue, or $12 million.

$12M that should have already been spent? Is $12M good? Bad? IDK

Cops called for trespassing....I'm assuming that the police asked the guys to leave and they refused

Nelson said they weren’t questioned but were told to leave immediately.

....cops pretty much have to arrest them right?

Once arrested who can dismiss the charges? The DA right....not the actual police themselves?

Nalod wrote:

Andrew wrote:Lets separate the cops that handled the situation at Starbucks and the legal process itself.

Cops called for trespassing....I'm assuming that the police asked the guys to leave and they refused....cops pretty much have to arrest them right?

Once arrested who can dismiss the charges? The DA right....not the actual police themselves?

I was thinking about this and what are the alternatives. Its not like the cops can just say "Hey, buy a cup of joe and its all good. Im at a loss as to what is the proper procedure is. Once the police are there its escalated.

To me this is really about 1 person....the manager that handled it very badly.

Andrew wrote:Also...on both fronts this didn't need to lead to arrest at the end of the day. The manager should have handled it differently. The patrons, while definitely wronged could have left (when police arrived) and avoided arrest. I understand why they didn't leave, but I don't think you can blame the arresting officers for essentially doing their job.

disagree. their job must go beyond arresting. they could have simply said what the manager said...
cops: are you guys going to buy anything?
patrons: no, not yet...waiting on a friend to arrive
cops: only paying customers are allowed into this private establishment. can you please leave?
patrons: ok

would have taken 30 seconds

option 2...
cops: are you guys going to buy anything?
patrons: no, not yet...waiting on a friend to arrive
cops: only paying customers are allowed into this private establishment. can you please leave?
patrons: is there a time limit within which we are required to purchase something? it's been less than 10 mins since we have been here.
cops: i dont know..hey store manager, is there a time limit?
store manager: no sir, not that i am aware of
cops: ok, then in that case, we cannot legally remove any potential paying customers from premises. thanks for cooperating guys.

would have taken 1 min.

Cartman718 wrote:

Andrew wrote:Also...on both fronts this didn't need to lead to arrest at the end of the day. The manager should have handled it differently. The patrons, while definitely wronged could have left (when police arrived) and avoided arrest. I understand why they didn't leave, but I don't think you can blame the arresting officers for essentially doing their job.

disagree. their job must go beyond arresting. they could have simply said what the manager said...
cops: are you guys going to buy anything?
patrons: no, not yet...waiting on a friend to arrive
cops: only paying customers are allowed into this private establishment. can you please leave?
patrons: ok

would have taken 30 seconds

option 2...
cops: are you guys going to buy anything?
patrons: no, not yet...waiting on a friend to arrive
cops: only paying customers are allowed into this private establishment. can you please leave?
patrons: is there a time limit within which we are required to purchase something? it's been less than 10 mins since we have been here.
cops: i dont know..hey store manager, is there a time limit?
store manager: no sir, not that i am aware of
cops: ok, then in that case, we cannot legally remove any potential paying customers from premises. thanks for cooperating guys.

would have taken 1 min.

Do we really want police needing to evaluate company (starbucks) policy though? That's kind of absurd.

If the owner/operator of an establishment asks someone to leave for any reason (right or wrong) and you don't....correct me if i'm wrong but isn't that trespassing?

Your legal recourse is not to refuse, but to bring civil action against against the owner....and social change based on your experience.

Nalod wrote:Manager was fired, CEO was in the store in a day, and took responsibility.
I thought I read there was an incident in that store previously. That was the managers frame of reference for what proved to be an incredibly stupid act on his part. He was fired. He deserved it.
There are 13,900 Starbucks stores. Im going to guess there have been crimes, murders, robberies in Starbucks over the years. There are stupid employees everywhere. MY point is does Starbucks promote as a company racism? Is it a corp culture? No doubt this was an act of ignorance and we all know ignorance breeds fear.
They have closed 8000 stores on May 29 for racial bias training. Small price to pay. Estimated 12million. I applaud the speed by which they have responded.
I generally don't like when groups boycott stores unless there is a culture of hate or other institutional bias. I have yet to see where Starbucks has failed, or failed to jump on this instance.
The Philly police are very much at fault as well.
Like I said, there was a instance in the store and the manager phuched up big time. TO boycott also hurts black employees as well. I get the anger, I get the response. I get starbucks reacting with incredible pace. Its smart and it defends the brand.
Thankfully nobody was hurt and in all the conversations we are having as a society and in the corp. sector is no doubt a good thing going forward.
Yes, racism exists, its ugly, it happens but we push forward. If the threat of boycott makes a CEO jump on a plane and own it and push society forward from an ignorant act then so be it. Under no circumstances do I condone the behavior of that employee or the police.
This is why they kneel at football games!!!!

This story is not racial, its unfreaking believable bad police work!!!
https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/04/18/us/ap-us-police-shooting-lawsuit.html

I agree that Starbucks did respond well. I am more interested in why those fukking cops weren't already fired as well? But no they'll go on - what's the term? Administrative leave?? Then come back two weeks later like nothing happened.

Racism is an inherent bias, education can make you stop touching your racist thoughts in front of others so you won't offend them, it can't make you less racist. We need social norms to change, social norms are more powerful than beliefs in changing behavior.