martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:Agree, I saw their press conference and liked how they pushed the idea of patience. They spoke about the mistakes of the past, and how quick fixes were tried several times which always ended up badly for the Knicks. They talked about building a sustainable winning culture. They were also pushing defense heavily.
We'll see from the type of players they acquire and draft. Stay away from the DSjr and Malik Monk types (one dimensional scorers), and get the Frank Ntilikina (high iq, defensive mindset) types. You really only need 1 dynamic scorer anyway, you surround this player with high iq 3 and d type players that can switch on every possession and defend and shoot the 3 and you'll be a decent team.

I do think they are too high on Tim Hardaway Jr. It was an overpay, he does not have a defensive mindset, and he's not especially efficient. I'm not sure what they see in him, but I hope he improves over time.

I didn't care or the THJ signing, but i understood it, and his defense has a lot to do with how he is being taught, which in ATL he look much more engaged.

Perry and Mills preach defense, than trade or acquired some of the worst defenders in the league at their respected positions JACK, MUDIAY, MCDERMOTT, KANTER,BURKE.

You've just painted about 1/3 of a picture and what happened with the Knicks while WILLFULLY ignoring the rest. Case in point: You can understand why the Knicks signing THJr but don't understand McDermott/Kanter? Hello Melo trade, did you just forget the circumstance about that? Mudiay/Burke are short term guys with the upside of being long term if they pan out. Jack is an OBVIOUS even shorter term guy who was on a non-guaranteed contract.

Look to Frank if you want to know about their feel for defense; and not only the drafting of such a player, but their handling of him within the long term.

knicks1248 wrote:This silly Idea that recent regimes(walsh, grunwald, phil) have tried quick fixes is as lame as it gets.
Walsh took a yr and half to trade away a slew of bad contracts to get cap space to sign two superstars (which everyone know you need that to win) thats not a quick fix

Grunwald had no cap space, and sign some vets to 2 yr contracts to complement Amare and Melo, he signed JR, Novak, Lin, Camby, KIDD, Tyson, KT, Rasheed (very solid vets to reasonable contracts) no quick fix here

Phil did what walsh did and clear the deck to get some quality vets to go around KP and Melo, but unlike grunwald (who gave 2 yr contracts) phil gave 4 yrs and couldn't get a single star to sign with the 30+ million in cap space that he had.

What is Perry and MILLS plan, if they think that they are going to just let Noah, lance and Lee's contract expire and be bad for 2 more yrs, they will get FIRED.

You cant preach (but so much) patience when your taking over a team that's been really bad for 4 yrs, you cant say hey... Give me another 3 or 4 yrs of being bad before for we see some success.

And you absolutely can preach patience, this is a new FO with a new direction (even if Mills is a retread). It's YOU that need to adjust your thinking.

FRANK is a Triangle/Phil draft pick, please don't convince yourself otherwise

The knicks had chump change left after signing THJ,incomes jack

We have establish two things this entire season, JH SUCKED and Frank is a project, 2 things we essentially knew before the season even started. The culture remain the same

I don't care what anyone says, you play to win games, and the roster put together either didn't care or down right sucked from a talent standpoint. Which should concerned every knick fan about future moves if the past moves look suspect.

So when CRUSH posted this thread wondering why media outlets still think this is a dysfunctional FRANCHISE, look no further than the constant change that doesn't resulted in an ounce of progress or success.

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:Agree, I saw their press conference and liked how they pushed the idea of patience. They spoke about the mistakes of the past, and how quick fixes were tried several times which always ended up badly for the Knicks. They talked about building a sustainable winning culture. They were also pushing defense heavily.
We'll see from the type of players they acquire and draft. Stay away from the DSjr and Malik Monk types (one dimensional scorers), and get the Frank Ntilikina (high iq, defensive mindset) types. You really only need 1 dynamic scorer anyway, you surround this player with high iq 3 and d type players that can switch on every possession and defend and shoot the 3 and you'll be a decent team.

I do think they are too high on Tim Hardaway Jr. It was an overpay, he does not have a defensive mindset, and he's not especially efficient. I'm not sure what they see in him, but I hope he improves over time.

I didn't care or the THJ signing, but i understood it, and his defense has a lot to do with how he is being taught, which in ATL he look much more engaged.

Perry and Mills preach defense, than trade or acquired some of the worst defenders in the league at their respected positions JACK, MUDIAY, MCDERMOTT, KANTER,BURKE.

You've just painted about 1/3 of a picture and what happened with the Knicks while WILLFULLY ignoring the rest. Case in point: You can understand why the Knicks signing THJr but don't understand McDermott/Kanter? Hello Melo trade, did you just forget the circumstance about that? Mudiay/Burke are short term guys with the upside of being long term if they pan out. Jack is an OBVIOUS even shorter term guy who was on a non-guaranteed contract.

Look to Frank if you want to know about their feel for defense; and not only the drafting of such a player, but their handling of him within the long term.

knicks1248 wrote:This silly Idea that recent regimes(walsh, grunwald, phil) have tried quick fixes is as lame as it gets.
Walsh took a yr and half to trade away a slew of bad contracts to get cap space to sign two superstars (which everyone know you need that to win) thats not a quick fix

Grunwald had no cap space, and sign some vets to 2 yr contracts to complement Amare and Melo, he signed JR, Novak, Lin, Camby, KIDD, Tyson, KT, Rasheed (very solid vets to reasonable contracts) no quick fix here

Phil did what walsh did and clear the deck to get some quality vets to go around KP and Melo, but unlike grunwald (who gave 2 yr contracts) phil gave 4 yrs and couldn't get a single star to sign with the 30+ million in cap space that he had.

What is Perry and MILLS plan, if they think that they are going to just let Noah, lance and Lee's contract expire and be bad for 2 more yrs, they will get FIRED.

You cant preach (but so much) patience when your taking over a team that's been really bad for 4 yrs, you cant say hey... Give me another 3 or 4 yrs of being bad before for we see some success.

And you absolutely can preach patience, this is a new FO with a new direction (even if Mills is a retread). It's YOU that need to adjust your thinking.

FRANK is a Triangle/Phil draft pick, please don't convince yourself otherwise

The knicks had chump change left after signing THJ,incomes jack

We have establish two things this entire season, JH SUCKED and Frank is a project, 2 things we essentially knew before the season even started. The culture remain the same

I don't care what anyone says, you play to win games, and the roster put together either didn't care or down right sucked from a talent standpoint. Which should concerned every knick fan about future moves if the past moves look suspect.

So when CRUSH posted this thread wondering why media outlets still think this is a dysfunctional FRANCHISE, look no further than the constant change that doesn't resulted in an ounce of progress or success.

I literally have no idea what you are trying to communicate.

What the hell is a Triangle PG? I don't even know what that means

IS KP a Triangle C/PF?

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:Agree, I saw their press conference and liked how they pushed the idea of patience. They spoke about the mistakes of the past, and how quick fixes were tried several times which always ended up badly for the Knicks. They talked about building a sustainable winning culture. They were also pushing defense heavily.
We'll see from the type of players they acquire and draft. Stay away from the DSjr and Malik Monk types (one dimensional scorers), and get the Frank Ntilikina (high iq, defensive mindset) types. You really only need 1 dynamic scorer anyway, you surround this player with high iq 3 and d type players that can switch on every possession and defend and shoot the 3 and you'll be a decent team.

I do think they are too high on Tim Hardaway Jr. It was an overpay, he does not have a defensive mindset, and he's not especially efficient. I'm not sure what they see in him, but I hope he improves over time.

I didn't care or the THJ signing, but i understood it, and his defense has a lot to do with how he is being taught, which in ATL he look much more engaged.

Perry and Mills preach defense, than trade or acquired some of the worst defenders in the league at their respected positions JACK, MUDIAY, MCDERMOTT, KANTER,BURKE.

This silly Idea that recent regimes(walsh, grunwald, phil) have tried quick fixes is as lame as it gets.
Walsh took a yr and half to trade away a slew of bad contracts to get cap space to sign two superstars (which everyone know you need that to win) thats not a quick fix

Grunwald had no cap space, and sign some vets to 2 yr contracts to complement Amare and Melo, he signed JR, Novak, Lin, Camby, KIDD, Tyson, KT, Rasheed (very solid vets to reasonable contracts) no quick fix here

Phil did what walsh did and clear the deck to get some quality vets to go around KP and Melo, but unlike grunwald (who gave 2 yr contracts) phil gave 4 yrs and couldn't get a single star to sign with the 30+ million in cap space that he had.

What is Perry and MILLS plan, if they think that they are going to just let Noah, lance and Lee's contract expire and be bad for 2 more yrs, they will get FIRED.

You cant preach (but so much) patience when your taking over a team that's been really bad for 4 yrs, you cant say hey... Give me another 3 or 4 yrs of being bad before for we see some success.

Camby, Kidd, KT, Rasheed, not a quick fix? They all retired after the season, most couldnt finish out the year. JR was more trouble than he was worth. Novak couldnt guard anyone and couldnt shoot when guarded. Tyson was a mixed bag. Went from one extreme to the other.

Perry has been here one season, lost KP halfway through it, had to deal with an aging star with an NTC. And a team in desperate need of a rebuild. You really want to go for broke with retreads?

I dont believe in sugar coating the state of the Knicks. Dont believe in sugar coating the past either.

You are not drafting 15 players, your always going to have to signed vets, or make trades, so those vets in there last leg (camby and them)produce 54 wins, the most since the 90s.

Perry is not the shot caller, he is just a consultant, I'm not blaming him or giving him credit for much, MILLs made that crystal clear. So every real move that's being im going to give mills most of the credit or blame.

Some of you got this notion that we either contending for a championship or tank, no middle ground

Of course you are going to sign vets. The question is which ones? Tbe example you gave was a Knicks squad which was not only the oldest in the league at the time, it was up there in players lost to injury, if not at the top of the list. Thats not a model I want to see Perry follow.

Agree there should be a balance, just not your idea of it. We want the minutes going to the yoots. 2019 is when the Knicks will be in the hunt for FAs. In the meantime, trying to draft well, finding young role players on the cheap like Burke and Williams is the way to go.

Its a fair question about how much control Mills will give Perry in the coming years. As the NY writers have pointed out, if Blatt is chosen, it likely is a sign that Mills is driving the big decisions. I hope that doesnt turn out to be the case, because he's been doing a good job lately of being part of the solution. Not letting Perry make the call would be a big mistake. And to answer why Perry wouldnt choose Blatt? Hard to put your own stamp on a team with your boss's college buddy.

Its not like Mills has a history of hiring coach's.
Its not Like Blatt does not have the resume. He does.
Its not like Perry has "His guys" from years of success.
Its not an indictment for them to come to conclusions together as opposed to "Blatt hire makes Perry the defacto "Yes" man to Mills".
Blatt has years of history and only one blemish that he could not get along with Lebron. Go back and remember that Cav's team was all new that season and had injury problems. I get why they replaced him midway thru season two, but its not a blemish.
Blatts teams have defensive intensity and he runs a modern offense based of the Princeton motion offense.
I'd rather Blatt over JVG, Jax, and Stan Albeck.

Would be much too easy for Blatt to do an end run around Perry over personel decisions, any decision really. They have too much history. Why would an exec with some quality choices with more NBA experience give the job to someone who could undermine them without much effort? This would just be replacing Dolan's interference with Mills'. Neither has the track record to get that involved.

Mills hiring Perry was out of the box thinking. Not letting Perry make the call would put the Knicks right back in that.box. Nevermind who the coach is. Perry needs the time and the space to build something in NY free from interference. Starts with the choice of Head Coach. Stuff like this is why NY has trouble attracting top execs.

So you think "Stuff like this...." is some biological MSG condition that turns good men into idiots? Some preconditioned idiocy that carries no matter if you change the decision makers?
Too much history? These guys have not worked together before. BLatt has lived overseasa for years. They are friends and have a life long bond. Mills actually has the education and corp background to get the job done. Your talking about Isiah/Larry Brown kind of dysfunction? Sure it could happen, but why would you assume Blatt and perry would not be on the same page? Maybe they "Conspire" against Mills wishes?

Worst thing I can think of is When Craig Robinson, Blatt and Mills all go out with Perry he has to listen to "remember when..... In our sophmore year that freaky cheerleader was....."

What about a culture of bright guys that trust each other and respect each other all coming together to build something special? Might happen! If your all into some kind of NYC curse that pulls men apart as our history and it will never ever ever change just because god deemed it as such, well then thats another story!
God is a laker or a celtic fan. No doubt!

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:Agree, I saw their press conference and liked how they pushed the idea of patience. They spoke about the mistakes of the past, and how quick fixes were tried several times which always ended up badly for the Knicks. They talked about building a sustainable winning culture. They were also pushing defense heavily.
We'll see from the type of players they acquire and draft. Stay away from the DSjr and Malik Monk types (one dimensional scorers), and get the Frank Ntilikina (high iq, defensive mindset) types. You really only need 1 dynamic scorer anyway, you surround this player with high iq 3 and d type players that can switch on every possession and defend and shoot the 3 and you'll be a decent team.

I do think they are too high on Tim Hardaway Jr. It was an overpay, he does not have a defensive mindset, and he's not especially efficient. I'm not sure what they see in him, but I hope he improves over time.

I didn't care or the THJ signing, but i understood it, and his defense has a lot to do with how he is being taught, which in ATL he look much more engaged.

Perry and Mills preach defense, than trade or acquired some of the worst defenders in the league at their respected positions JACK, MUDIAY, MCDERMOTT, KANTER,BURKE.

This silly Idea that recent regimes(walsh, grunwald, phil) have tried quick fixes is as lame as it gets.
Walsh took a yr and half to trade away a slew of bad contracts to get cap space to sign two superstars (which everyone know you need that to win) thats not a quick fix

Grunwald had no cap space, and sign some vets to 2 yr contracts to complement Amare and Melo, he signed JR, Novak, Lin, Camby, KIDD, Tyson, KT, Rasheed (very solid vets to reasonable contracts) no quick fix here

Phil did what walsh did and clear the deck to get some quality vets to go around KP and Melo, but unlike grunwald (who gave 2 yr contracts) phil gave 4 yrs and couldn't get a single star to sign with the 30+ million in cap space that he had.

What is Perry and MILLS plan, if they think that they are going to just let Noah, lance and Lee's contract expire and be bad for 2 more yrs, they will get FIRED.

You cant preach (but so much) patience when your taking over a team that's been really bad for 4 yrs, you cant say hey... Give me another 3 or 4 yrs of being bad before for we see some success.

Camby, Kidd, KT, Rasheed, not a quick fix? They all retired after the season, most couldnt finish out the year. JR was more trouble than he was worth. Novak couldnt guard anyone and couldnt shoot when guarded. Tyson was a mixed bag. Went from one extreme to the other.

Perry has been here one season, lost KP halfway through it, had to deal with an aging star with an NTC. And a team in desperate need of a rebuild. You really want to go for broke with retreads?

I dont believe in sugar coating the state of the Knicks. Dont believe in sugar coating the past either.

You are not drafting 15 players, your always going to have to signed vets, or make trades, so those vets in there last leg (camby and them)produce 54 wins, the most since the 90s.

Perry is not the shot caller, he is just a consultant, I'm not blaming him or giving him credit for much, MILLs made that crystal clear. So every real move that's being im going to give mills most of the credit or blame.

Some of you got this notion that we either contending for a championship or tank, no middle ground

Of course you are going to sign vets. The question is which ones? Tbe example you gave was a Knicks squad which was not only the oldest in the league at the time, it was up there in players lost to injury, if not at the top of the list. Thats not a model I want to see Perry follow.

Agree there should be a balance, just not your idea of it. We want the minutes going to the yoots. 2019 is when the Knicks will be in the hunt for FAs. In the meantime, trying to draft well, finding young role players on the cheap like Burke and Williams is the way to go.

Its a fair question about how much control Mills will give Perry in the coming years. As the NY writers have pointed out, if Blatt is chosen, it likely is a sign that Mills is driving the big decisions. I hope that doesnt turn out to be the case, because he's been doing a good job lately of being part of the solution. Not letting Perry make the call would be a big mistake. And to answer why Perry wouldnt choose Blatt? Hard to put your own stamp on a team with your boss's college buddy.

Its not like Mills has a history of hiring coach's.
Its not Like Blatt does not have the resume. He does.
Its not like Perry has "His guys" from years of success.
Its not an indictment for them to come to conclusions together as opposed to "Blatt hire makes Perry the defacto "Yes" man to Mills".
Blatt has years of history and only one blemish that he could not get along with Lebron. Go back and remember that Cav's team was all new that season and had injury problems. I get why they replaced him midway thru season two, but its not a blemish.
Blatts teams have defensive intensity and he runs a modern offense based of the Princeton motion offense.
I'd rather Blatt over JVG, Jax, and Stan Albeck.

Would be much too easy for Blatt to do an end run around Perry over personel decisions, any decision really. They have too much history. Why would an exec with some quality choices with more NBA experience give the job to someone who could undermine them without much effort? This would just be replacing Dolan's interference with Mills'. Neither has the track record to get that involved.

Mills hiring Perry was out of the box thinking. Not letting Perry make the call would put the Knicks right back in that.box. Nevermind who the coach is. Perry needs the time and the space to build something in NY free from interference. Starts with the choice of Head Coach. Stuff like this is why NY has trouble attracting top execs.

So you think "Stuff like this...." is some biological MSG condition that turns good men into idiots? Some preconditioned idiocy that carries no matter if you change the decision makers?
Too much history? These guys have not worked together before. BLatt has lived overseasa for years. They are friends and have a life long bond. Mills actually has the education and corp background to get the job done. Your talking about Isiah/Larry Brown kind of dysfunction? Sure it could happen, but why would you assume Blatt and perry would not be on the same page? Maybe they "Conspire" against Mills wishes?

Worst thing I can think of is When Craig Robinson, Blatt and Mills all go out with Perry he has to listen to "remember when..... In our sophmore year that freaky cheerleader was....."

What about a culture of bright guys that trust each other and respect each other all coming together to build something special? Might happen! If your all into some kind of NYC curse that pulls men apart as our history and it will never ever ever change just because god deemed it as such, well then thats another story!
God is a laker or a celtic fan. No doubt!

Mills has been wanting to bring Blatt to NY for years. Blatt not using his connection to Mills to his best advantage sounds like a nice fairy tale.

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:Agree, I saw their press conference and liked how they pushed the idea of patience. They spoke about the mistakes of the past, and how quick fixes were tried several times which always ended up badly for the Knicks. They talked about building a sustainable winning culture. They were also pushing defense heavily.
We'll see from the type of players they acquire and draft. Stay away from the DSjr and Malik Monk types (one dimensional scorers), and get the Frank Ntilikina (high iq, defensive mindset) types. You really only need 1 dynamic scorer anyway, you surround this player with high iq 3 and d type players that can switch on every possession and defend and shoot the 3 and you'll be a decent team.

I do think they are too high on Tim Hardaway Jr. It was an overpay, he does not have a defensive mindset, and he's not especially efficient. I'm not sure what they see in him, but I hope he improves over time.

I didn't care or the THJ signing, but i understood it, and his defense has a lot to do with how he is being taught, which in ATL he look much more engaged.

Perry and Mills preach defense, than trade or acquired some of the worst defenders in the league at their respected positions JACK, MUDIAY, MCDERMOTT, KANTER,BURKE.

You've just painted about 1/3 of a picture and what happened with the Knicks while WILLFULLY ignoring the rest. Case in point: You can understand why the Knicks signing THJr but don't understand McDermott/Kanter? Hello Melo trade, did you just forget the circumstance about that? Mudiay/Burke are short term guys with the upside of being long term if they pan out. Jack is an OBVIOUS even shorter term guy who was on a non-guaranteed contract.

Look to Frank if you want to know about their feel for defense; and not only the drafting of such a player, but their handling of him within the long term.

knicks1248 wrote:This silly Idea that recent regimes(walsh, grunwald, phil) have tried quick fixes is as lame as it gets.
Walsh took a yr and half to trade away a slew of bad contracts to get cap space to sign two superstars (which everyone know you need that to win) thats not a quick fix

Grunwald had no cap space, and sign some vets to 2 yr contracts to complement Amare and Melo, he signed JR, Novak, Lin, Camby, KIDD, Tyson, KT, Rasheed (very solid vets to reasonable contracts) no quick fix here

Phil did what walsh did and clear the deck to get some quality vets to go around KP and Melo, but unlike grunwald (who gave 2 yr contracts) phil gave 4 yrs and couldn't get a single star to sign with the 30+ million in cap space that he had.

What is Perry and MILLS plan, if they think that they are going to just let Noah, lance and Lee's contract expire and be bad for 2 more yrs, they will get FIRED.

You cant preach (but so much) patience when your taking over a team that's been really bad for 4 yrs, you cant say hey... Give me another 3 or 4 yrs of being bad before for we see some success.

And you absolutely can preach patience, this is a new FO with a new direction (even if Mills is a retread). It's YOU that need to adjust your thinking.

FRANK is a Triangle/Phil draft pick, please don't convince yourself otherwise

The knicks had chump change left after signing THJ,incomes jack

We have establish two things this entire season, JH SUCKED and Frank is a project, 2 things we essentially knew before the season even started. The culture remain the same

I don't care what anyone says, you play to win games, and the roster put together either didn't care or down right sucked from a talent standpoint. Which should concerned every knick fan about future moves if the past moves look suspect.

So when CRUSH posted this thread wondering why media outlets still think this is a dysfunctional FRANCHISE, look no further than the constant change that doesn't resulted in an ounce of progress or success.

I literally have no idea what you are trying to communicate.

What the hell is a Triangle PG? I don't even know what that means

IS KP a Triangle C/PF?

A triangle PG is a ball handler thats a spot up shooter, who defers to his teammates, penetrates and slides to the perimeter and waits to be the 4th option, and there's nothing wrong with that if you have the likes of the Players NOLAD mention.

In other words, FRANK is a great prospect, if you have the KOBEs, the shaqs, the pippens, the Jordans, leaders, guys that will hoist up 20 to 25 shots per game, ball dominate players.

FRANKS not a great pick, when you have no none of the above, and the rest of the roster is just as reluctant to shoot or take over, or play and real defense.

I'm really trying to figure out how long we should we be patient with the current FO after our 4 yrs of 50 losses.

You equate MIlls to Phil as one and the same?
You don't see any change when Phil left?

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:Agree, I saw their press conference and liked how they pushed the idea of patience. They spoke about the mistakes of the past, and how quick fixes were tried several times which always ended up badly for the Knicks. They talked about building a sustainable winning culture. They were also pushing defense heavily.
We'll see from the type of players they acquire and draft. Stay away from the DSjr and Malik Monk types (one dimensional scorers), and get the Frank Ntilikina (high iq, defensive mindset) types. You really only need 1 dynamic scorer anyway, you surround this player with high iq 3 and d type players that can switch on every possession and defend and shoot the 3 and you'll be a decent team.

I do think they are too high on Tim Hardaway Jr. It was an overpay, he does not have a defensive mindset, and he's not especially efficient. I'm not sure what they see in him, but I hope he improves over time.

I didn't care or the THJ signing, but i understood it, and his defense has a lot to do with how he is being taught, which in ATL he look much more engaged.

Perry and Mills preach defense, than trade or acquired some of the worst defenders in the league at their respected positions JACK, MUDIAY, MCDERMOTT, KANTER,BURKE.

You've just painted about 1/3 of a picture and what happened with the Knicks while WILLFULLY ignoring the rest. Case in point: You can understand why the Knicks signing THJr but don't understand McDermott/Kanter? Hello Melo trade, did you just forget the circumstance about that? Mudiay/Burke are short term guys with the upside of being long term if they pan out. Jack is an OBVIOUS even shorter term guy who was on a non-guaranteed contract.

Look to Frank if you want to know about their feel for defense; and not only the drafting of such a player, but their handling of him within the long term.

knicks1248 wrote:This silly Idea that recent regimes(walsh, grunwald, phil) have tried quick fixes is as lame as it gets.
Walsh took a yr and half to trade away a slew of bad contracts to get cap space to sign two superstars (which everyone know you need that to win) thats not a quick fix

Grunwald had no cap space, and sign some vets to 2 yr contracts to complement Amare and Melo, he signed JR, Novak, Lin, Camby, KIDD, Tyson, KT, Rasheed (very solid vets to reasonable contracts) no quick fix here

Phil did what walsh did and clear the deck to get some quality vets to go around KP and Melo, but unlike grunwald (who gave 2 yr contracts) phil gave 4 yrs and couldn't get a single star to sign with the 30+ million in cap space that he had.

What is Perry and MILLS plan, if they think that they are going to just let Noah, lance and Lee's contract expire and be bad for 2 more yrs, they will get FIRED.

You cant preach (but so much) patience when your taking over a team that's been really bad for 4 yrs, you cant say hey... Give me another 3 or 4 yrs of being bad before for we see some success.

And you absolutely can preach patience, this is a new FO with a new direction (even if Mills is a retread). It's YOU that need to adjust your thinking.

FRANK is a Triangle/Phil draft pick, please don't convince yourself otherwise

The knicks had chump change left after signing THJ,incomes jack

We have establish two things this entire season, JH SUCKED and Frank is a project, 2 things we essentially knew before the season even started. The culture remain the same

I don't care what anyone says, you play to win games, and the roster put together either didn't care or down right sucked from a talent standpoint. Which should concerned every knick fan about future moves if the past moves look suspect.

So when CRUSH posted this thread wondering why media outlets still think this is a dysfunctional FRANCHISE, look no further than the constant change that doesn't resulted in an ounce of progress or success.

I literally have no idea what you are trying to communicate.

What the hell is a Triangle PG? I don't even know what that means

IS KP a Triangle C/PF?

A triangle PG is a ball handler thats a spot up shooter, who defers to his teammates, penetrates and slides to the perimeter and waits to be the 4th option, and there's nothing wrong with that if you have the likes of the Players NOLAD mention.

In other words, FRANK is a great prospect, if you have the KOBEs, the shaqs, the pippens, the Jordans, leaders, guys that will hoist up 20 to 25 shots per game, ball dominate players.

FRANKS not a great pick, when you have no none of the above, and the rest of the roster is just as reluctant to shoot or take over, or play and real defense.

I'm really trying to figure out how long we should we be patient with the current FO after our 4 yrs of 50 losses.

You equate MIlls to Phil as one and the same?
You don't see any change when Phil left?

Mills let JH hang himself
Phil jumped in and said no, your going do it this way.

I liked most of phils doings except the triangle, and i mean i hated the triangle so much it negated the things i did like about phil.

I really don't have much choice but to Give the FO their opportunity, but DOLAND is doing to mills, what MILLS did to JH.

phil taking the entire blame for his 3 yrs of losing means that MILLS had zero input(which you know is BULL SHT), they sat together at every single game like Mills is now doing with perry.

It was never mills signed noah or lee, mills traded for rose, or mill traded JR, that was all phil

now it's all about PeRRY this and perry that...

Lets do this one more time.
Most Team presidents oversea the whole operation, including talent. most GM's are roster centric.
PHil had the title of President but in My opinion he did the roster and Mills was more the president for all other operations.
So lets say it was a hybrid.
Now it Perry as the roster dude, Mills in the more traditional role. Presidents have final say over contracts and sign off on money things. Players are money things.
Did Mills trade Willy? Or did Perry? Did Mills get Mudiay? or Perry? Did Mills sign off on Melo? Of course. For big money, even DOlan might have had some final say as he did pay the man a lot of damn money.
Its my opinion the blame game is not so clear.
Yes, Mills HIRED perry, so its on him. In my mind, and a lot others Mills gets a reboot. Phil impressed they go triangle.
As for JH, he was a good hire. Phil was awful to insist on his system. JH gets a free pass on year one. Year he got fired. Can't ask more than that.
Give the guy a chance.
Now this FO gets to hire its guy.
Please answer this:
Would you have knicks fire Mills today?

fwk00 wrote:I don't understand the Lionization of Perry or the demonization of Phil. The new boss is no different than the old boss. Skin color don't matter. Rings don't matter. Its all the same.

Everything that happens with the Knicks happens in a toxic stew of rabid fans far less saavy than portrayed by the media, a malicious NY MSM, and an NBA whose policies do not take taxes into consideration in calculating cap space.

The Knicks are and have been competently run as any NBA organization. They have no problem attracting top-flight administrative talent.

What the Knicks don't have is enough runway to ever get off the ground. EVERY cohort of coaches and administrators lasts but a year or two as a unit and then there's drama, traumatic change, and a reboot. Its no surprise that winning is always out of reach.

Perry is just the latest FO guy standing on melting ice.

I think there is a lot to what you say. The hysterical, prisoner of the moment mindset of fans and media contribute at least in large part to the toxic stop and start progress of the Knicks. I remember when I moved to New York and was told NY fans were "knowledgeable." Yeah, maybe 5 or 6 of them.

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:Agree, I saw their press conference and liked how they pushed the idea of patience. They spoke about the mistakes of the past, and how quick fixes were tried several times which always ended up badly for the Knicks. They talked about building a sustainable winning culture. They were also pushing defense heavily.
We'll see from the type of players they acquire and draft. Stay away from the DSjr and Malik Monk types (one dimensional scorers), and get the Frank Ntilikina (high iq, defensive mindset) types. You really only need 1 dynamic scorer anyway, you surround this player with high iq 3 and d type players that can switch on every possession and defend and shoot the 3 and you'll be a decent team.

I do think they are too high on Tim Hardaway Jr. It was an overpay, he does not have a defensive mindset, and he's not especially efficient. I'm not sure what they see in him, but I hope he improves over time.

I didn't care or the THJ signing, but i understood it, and his defense has a lot to do with how he is being taught, which in ATL he look much more engaged.

Perry and Mills preach defense, than trade or acquired some of the worst defenders in the league at their respected positions JACK, MUDIAY, MCDERMOTT, KANTER,BURKE.

You've just painted about 1/3 of a picture and what happened with the Knicks while WILLFULLY ignoring the rest. Case in point: You can understand why the Knicks signing THJr but don't understand McDermott/Kanter? Hello Melo trade, did you just forget the circumstance about that? Mudiay/Burke are short term guys with the upside of being long term if they pan out. Jack is an OBVIOUS even shorter term guy who was on a non-guaranteed contract.

Look to Frank if you want to know about their feel for defense; and not only the drafting of such a player, but their handling of him within the long term.

knicks1248 wrote:This silly Idea that recent regimes(walsh, grunwald, phil) have tried quick fixes is as lame as it gets.
Walsh took a yr and half to trade away a slew of bad contracts to get cap space to sign two superstars (which everyone know you need that to win) thats not a quick fix

Grunwald had no cap space, and sign some vets to 2 yr contracts to complement Amare and Melo, he signed JR, Novak, Lin, Camby, KIDD, Tyson, KT, Rasheed (very solid vets to reasonable contracts) no quick fix here

Phil did what walsh did and clear the deck to get some quality vets to go around KP and Melo, but unlike grunwald (who gave 2 yr contracts) phil gave 4 yrs and couldn't get a single star to sign with the 30+ million in cap space that he had.

What is Perry and MILLS plan, if they think that they are going to just let Noah, lance and Lee's contract expire and be bad for 2 more yrs, they will get FIRED.

You cant preach (but so much) patience when your taking over a team that's been really bad for 4 yrs, you cant say hey... Give me another 3 or 4 yrs of being bad before for we see some success.

And you absolutely can preach patience, this is a new FO with a new direction (even if Mills is a retread). It's YOU that need to adjust your thinking.

FRANK is a Triangle/Phil draft pick, please don't convince yourself otherwise

The knicks had chump change left after signing THJ,incomes jack

We have establish two things this entire season, JH SUCKED and Frank is a project, 2 things we essentially knew before the season even started. The culture remain the same

I don't care what anyone says, you play to win games, and the roster put together either didn't care or down right sucked from a talent standpoint. Which should concerned every knick fan about future moves if the past moves look suspect.

So when CRUSH posted this thread wondering why media outlets still think this is a dysfunctional FRANCHISE, look no further than the constant change that doesn't resulted in an ounce of progress or success.

I literally have no idea what you are trying to communicate.

What the hell is a Triangle PG? I don't even know what that means

IS KP a Triangle C/PF?

A triangle PG is a ball handler thats a spot up shooter, who defers to his teammates, penetrates and slides to the perimeter and waits to be the 4th option, and there's nothing wrong with that if you have the likes of the Players NOLAD mention.

In other words, FRANK is a great prospect, if you have the KOBEs, the shaqs, the pippens, the Jordans, leaders, guys that will hoist up 20 to 25 shots per game, ball dominate players.

FRANKS not a great pick, when you have no none of the above, and the rest of the roster is just as reluctant to shoot or take over, or play and real defense.

I'm really trying to figure out how long we should we be patient with the current FO after our 4 yrs of 50 losses.

That doesn't make you a *triangle PG*. That just makes you a compliment to Jordan & Kobe and the point forwards like Pippen, Toni, Odom and high usage bigs such as Shaq & Gasol.

Frank is a good pick because he has so many tools that you cant teach with strong foundation of intangibles that are already installed in him at the age of 19. All he has to develop are the things that you can teach which is craft, strength & conditioning. (Also stop just looking at him as a PG. He is drafted with a strong foundation that can be molded to be multiple different things. He is just a future potential weapon. Forget position he just a BBall player)

When these things are developed you could potentially have a complete player who plays both sides of the ball and can do everything on the court. If the goal is to win championships then you add as many Franks as possible to the roster and build them up. Maybe you hit on a Kwahi or a Butler or a George or a Mitchell or a Gobert.

Utah is a prime example. All they did was collect on these type of 2-way players and finished higher seed than the Wolves and tied the Thunder.

Or maybe we should go back to the days when we had Marbury, Crawford, Francis, Richardson, Randolph & Curry. Knicks1248 why didn't those teams win again?

Chandler wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I get the typical @sshats that continue to try to paint the Knicks as the franchise of dysfunction but I am surprised when guys that I respect do it. Heard Sam Vecenie on a podcast today say the Knicks are horribly mismanaged. Isola and Mitch Lawerence (not guys that I respect)spent the morning complaining about the Mills/Perry saying they needed a coach that understood today's player and also held guys accountable. Jeff and RAmbis had a player revolt the previous season because of their difficulties interacting with players. Not sure why they were brought back but I thought it was charitable on Perry's part and I am glad that he is now choosing his own guy. It is the next step in building a team that is top down functional. I can't think of a move made by the Knicks since Perry has been in place that could be called stupid or bad. While most were minor, I think he has been smart in his approach so far.

questionable/bad
1) trading Willy is TBD
2) Mudiay is TBD. you can rationalize under risk/reward but the almost immediate sense is "wish we had a do-over"
3) going from a situation of a glut of centers to a situation in which you can lose all four (KOQ, Noah, Willy, Kanter) seems very questionable, strategically
4) Last year, every one was ****ting on Phil for essentially saying the truth about Melo and al we heard was how that hurt his trade value; so we followed that up by putting a player in exile to support a coach you didn't like
5) if you knew you were going to fire JH, why not do it weeks earlier, install Rambis and guarantee a full tank at the end of the season

good
Trey Burke

I can't think of a single other thing

Having said that, I am not suggesting Perry should go; would like to see how things unfold

but calling his mgmt. smart at this stage seems wrong. I think the grade is C or "incomplete"

knicks1248 wrote:we shall see

It's official.
a. the original post was edited, because it probably said... "WE SHALL SEE!!!"
b. knicks1248 is playa