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context for Trey Burke... good players after lame NBA career starts
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Knixkik
Posts: 34894
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Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #11
USA
4/4/2018  9:09 AM
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Trey is for real. it took him a bit to mature and he got humbled.

NY is ok in the backcourt with Burke, Frank, Hardaway and Dotson. If they can get a solid combo guard in the 2nd round that would be smart too.

I agree. Long-term I love a Burke, Hardaway, Frank rotation at the guard positions. Dotson and Baker provide depth.

AUTOADVERT
EnySpree
Posts: 44917
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

4/4/2018  9:19 AM
blkexec wrote:
Nalod wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
fishmike wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:Chauncey Billups is the ultimate case study on a guy that looked like a bust that then turned into a star. Multiple teams gave up on him. He didn't turn it around until he was 25.. which happens to be how old Burke is now. It doesn't always click right away

disagree... Billups had bad shooting #s but he was productive player his first couple years. He could play... first 3 years he was like a 5/5/4 guy who could play D. The big thing was his role... was he a PG? But Billups was still putting up good #s.

...AAAAND (I just rechecked Burke's #s)

You are more right than I thought. For some reason I though Burke's #s were much lower but his first couple years w/ the Jazz he was more productive than I thought.

Problem with Burke is hiding him on defense but he's showing to be a fantastic offensive player. The low TOs considering his usage are the key for me.

thank you for re-clarifying. My point was that PG is not an easy position. Sometimes it just takes some time. I know Mudiay hasn't looked great but I think it was a smart move to bring in lotto PGs whose stock was low. I'm pretty sure Perry learned that trick in Detroit

I can't believe he sat this long, it just made no sense when JH goal was to up the pace.

I also think it take the right kind of vets to have around young players, and im not talking washed up vets, im talking very productive ones in their prime like KG was to Billups.

Burkes play can be good for a player like frank

How was his first games when he was called up? Not so great, some good, some DNP
You can't give any credit to JH for how Burkes season finished? It was a process.
When you know the result, its easy to say "if he gave him more time it would have happened sooner".
But you don't know the end result in January, you don't know until it happens.
Months later your so wise with hindsight.
Its the best ball he has played in his career.
By proxy, Jeff Hornacek makes you look bad. Its ironic.
Facts matter. When your void of them its best to say nothing.

Burke had back to back 18pt games on his 5th and 6th appearance.... he's been shooting 51% all year. His assists numbers are great... when you are void of facts it's best to shut the **** up

you can pull those muthaphucking bitch ass **** facts out the ass you want to paint a picture of and circle jerk the shyt out of it with Knicks1248 to satisfy anal retentive facts if you want but it don’t change the phucking shyt out of the got damn muthaphucking concept of butch ass conversation I have with lying ass muthaphucking JH hating fool for his own self gradifcation poster who likes to blow himself then brag he “Got some”! That not you Eny, is it?
You want to jump in the shyt convo with diarrhea of the mouth cuz you grumpy is on you.
Me, You can fire JH, blame him for everything but he gets cred for Burke.

Better languge art for today?

Come on fellas.....Lets be a better example to these new members. You guys been around the block too long for this type of dialogue.

At least when I do it it's creative and I'm actually still managing to talk basketball.... this Nalod rant sounds like a 3rd grader writing notes to a friend in class....not one basketball reference in it.

Subscribe to my Podcast https://youtube.com/c/DiehardknicksPodcast https://twitter.com/DiehardknicksPC?t=z5pqPMhdiAZNwzcCGMkiFw&s=09
doomed
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USA
4/4/2018  10:32 PM
I can’t not love Burke’s game and potential. He’s cookin out there every night... always cookin. Pressuring the opposing defenses. Hitting tough shots and making other nice shots look easy. That’s the sign of a star pg. If his shot doesn’t go away he’s very very dangerous. Love how he plays out there. And the best part ? He’s under contract next season.
Paris907
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Member: #6099
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4/5/2018  4:23 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2768263-whats-next-for-trey-burke-can-former-top-10-picks-knicks-renaissance-last?share=other

Trey is trying to play D yet the numbers are the Knicks give up 114.1 points per 100 possessions when he’s on the court. Worse in the entire league by 4 points.

Nalod
Posts: 68632
Alba Posts: 154
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
4/5/2018  4:30 PM
EnySpree wrote:
blkexec wrote:
Nalod wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
fishmike wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:Chauncey Billups is the ultimate case study on a guy that looked like a bust that then turned into a star. Multiple teams gave up on him. He didn't turn it around until he was 25.. which happens to be how old Burke is now. It doesn't always click right away

disagree... Billups had bad shooting #s but he was productive player his first couple years. He could play... first 3 years he was like a 5/5/4 guy who could play D. The big thing was his role... was he a PG? But Billups was still putting up good #s.

...AAAAND (I just rechecked Burke's #s)

You are more right than I thought. For some reason I though Burke's #s were much lower but his first couple years w/ the Jazz he was more productive than I thought.

Problem with Burke is hiding him on defense but he's showing to be a fantastic offensive player. The low TOs considering his usage are the key for me.

thank you for re-clarifying. My point was that PG is not an easy position. Sometimes it just takes some time. I know Mudiay hasn't looked great but I think it was a smart move to bring in lotto PGs whose stock was low. I'm pretty sure Perry learned that trick in Detroit

I can't believe he sat this long, it just made no sense when JH goal was to up the pace.

I also think it take the right kind of vets to have around young players, and im not talking washed up vets, im talking very productive ones in their prime like KG was to Billups.

Burkes play can be good for a player like frank

How was his first games when he was called up? Not so great, some good, some DNP
You can't give any credit to JH for how Burkes season finished? It was a process.
When you know the result, its easy to say "if he gave him more time it would have happened sooner".
But you don't know the end result in January, you don't know until it happens.
Months later your so wise with hindsight.
Its the best ball he has played in his career.
By proxy, Jeff Hornacek makes you look bad. Its ironic.
Facts matter. When your void of them its best to say nothing.

Burke had back to back 18pt games on his 5th and 6th appearance.... he's been shooting 51% all year. His assists numbers are great... when you are void of facts it's best to shut the **** up

you can pull those muthaphucking bitch ass **** facts out the ass you want to paint a picture of and circle jerk the shyt out of it with Knicks1248 to satisfy anal retentive facts if you want but it don’t change the phucking shyt out of the got damn muthaphucking concept of butch ass conversation I have with lying ass muthaphucking JH hating fool for his own self gradifcation poster who likes to blow himself then brag he “Got some”! That not you Eny, is it?
You want to jump in the shyt convo with diarrhea of the mouth cuz you grumpy is on you.
Me, You can fire JH, blame him for everything but he gets cred for Burke.

Better languge art for today?

Come on fellas.....Lets be a better example to these new members. You guys been around the block too long for this type of dialogue.

At least when I do it it's creative and I'm actually still managing to talk basketball.... this Nalod rant sounds like a 3rd grader writing notes to a friend in class....not one basketball reference in it.

Eny, you know I could give two shyts and a phuch about your language and my post reeks of sarcasim!!! There was basketball reference, I give JH cred for burke!!! LOL
Lighten up man! You used to have fun even in the darkest of knick hours!!

Knixkik
Posts: 34894
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4/5/2018  4:40 PM
Paris907 wrote:http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2768263-whats-next-for-trey-burke-can-former-top-10-picks-knicks-renaissance-last?share=other

Trey is trying to play D yet the numbers are the Knicks give up 114.1 points per 100 possessions when he’s on the court. Worse in the entire league by 4 points.


It's not great but we are a bad defensive team. I would like to see what the numbers look like when KP returns and Burke is on the floor with him a lot.
blkexec
Posts: 27816
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Member: #748
4/5/2018  4:49 PM
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Trey is for real. it took him a bit to mature and he got humbled.

NY is ok in the backcourt with Burke, Frank, Hardaway and Dotson. If they can get a solid combo guard in the 2nd round that would be smart too.

I think with Burke playing like an NBA starter, and Frank / Mudiay will improve in the off season. I'm starting to think drafting a PG 1st round is the wrong move....Unless there's a PG that's a lock to be a franchise player, and I don't see that in Young or any other PG in the draft. But it's possible with some of these young bigs who are NBA ready like Carter.....Mikal could be that franchise guy, if he's in a different system. He has all the skills.

Burke, Frank, Mudiay and Hardaway all played PG at some point in their career. That's a lot of depth. Sure it's not the best alignment of all stars, but we are far better now than we were before.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
knicks1248
Posts: 42059
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
4/5/2018  8:00 PM
Nalod wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
blkexec wrote:
Nalod wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
fishmike wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:Chauncey Billups is the ultimate case study on a guy that looked like a bust that then turned into a star. Multiple teams gave up on him. He didn't turn it around until he was 25.. which happens to be how old Burke is now. It doesn't always click right away

disagree... Billups had bad shooting #s but he was productive player his first couple years. He could play... first 3 years he was like a 5/5/4 guy who could play D. The big thing was his role... was he a PG? But Billups was still putting up good #s.

...AAAAND (I just rechecked Burke's #s)

You are more right than I thought. For some reason I though Burke's #s were much lower but his first couple years w/ the Jazz he was more productive than I thought.

Problem with Burke is hiding him on defense but he's showing to be a fantastic offensive player. The low TOs considering his usage are the key for me.

thank you for re-clarifying. My point was that PG is not an easy position. Sometimes it just takes some time. I know Mudiay hasn't looked great but I think it was a smart move to bring in lotto PGs whose stock was low. I'm pretty sure Perry learned that trick in Detroit

I can't believe he sat this long, it just made no sense when JH goal was to up the pace.

I also think it take the right kind of vets to have around young players, and im not talking washed up vets, im talking very productive ones in their prime like KG was to Billups.

Burkes play can be good for a player like frank

How was his first games when he was called up? Not so great, some good, some DNP
You can't give any credit to JH for how Burkes season finished? It was a process.
When you know the result, its easy to say "if he gave him more time it would have happened sooner".
But you don't know the end result in January, you don't know until it happens.
Months later your so wise with hindsight.
Its the best ball he has played in his career.
By proxy, Jeff Hornacek makes you look bad. Its ironic.
Facts matter. When your void of them its best to say nothing.

Burke had back to back 18pt games on his 5th and 6th appearance.... he's been shooting 51% all year. His assists numbers are great... when you are void of facts it's best to shut the **** up

you can pull those muthaphucking bitch ass **** facts out the ass you want to paint a picture of and circle jerk the shyt out of it with Knicks1248 to satisfy anal retentive facts if you want but it don’t change the phucking shyt out of the got damn muthaphucking concept of butch ass conversation I have with lying ass muthaphucking JH hating fool for his own self gradifcation poster who likes to blow himself then brag he “Got some”! That not you Eny, is it?
You want to jump in the shyt convo with diarrhea of the mouth cuz you grumpy is on you.
Me, You can fire JH, blame him for everything but he gets cred for Burke.

Better languge art for today?

Come on fellas.....Lets be a better example to these new members. You guys been around the block too long for this type of dialogue.

At least when I do it it's creative and I'm actually still managing to talk basketball.... this Nalod rant sounds like a 3rd grader writing notes to a friend in class....not one basketball reference in it.

Eny, you know I could give two shyts and a phuch about your language and my post reeks of sarcasim!!! There was basketball reference, I give JH cred for burke!!! LOL
Lighten up man! You used to have fun even in the darkest of knick hours!!

It's ridiculous when you try to act as if JH is voided of any accountability.

JH is on pace to finish the season 3-41, if he started the first half of the season like that he would have already been fired.

You do realize MSG has investor that want answers

ES
Nalod
Posts: 68632
Alba Posts: 154
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
4/6/2018  6:47 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
blkexec wrote:
Nalod wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
fishmike wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:Chauncey Billups is the ultimate case study on a guy that looked like a bust that then turned into a star. Multiple teams gave up on him. He didn't turn it around until he was 25.. which happens to be how old Burke is now. It doesn't always click right away

disagree... Billups had bad shooting #s but he was productive player his first couple years. He could play... first 3 years he was like a 5/5/4 guy who could play D. The big thing was his role... was he a PG? But Billups was still putting up good #s.

...AAAAND (I just rechecked Burke's #s)

You are more right than I thought. For some reason I though Burke's #s were much lower but his first couple years w/ the Jazz he was more productive than I thought.

Problem with Burke is hiding him on defense but he's showing to be a fantastic offensive player. The low TOs considering his usage are the key for me.

thank you for re-clarifying. My point was that PG is not an easy position. Sometimes it just takes some time. I know Mudiay hasn't looked great but I think it was a smart move to bring in lotto PGs whose stock was low. I'm pretty sure Perry learned that trick in Detroit

I can't believe he sat this long, it just made no sense when JH goal was to up the pace.

I also think it take the right kind of vets to have around young players, and im not talking washed up vets, im talking very productive ones in their prime like KG was to Billups.

Burkes play can be good for a player like frank

How was his first games when he was called up? Not so great, some good, some DNP
You can't give any credit to JH for how Burkes season finished? It was a process.
When you know the result, its easy to say "if he gave him more time it would have happened sooner".
But you don't know the end result in January, you don't know until it happens.
Months later your so wise with hindsight.
Its the best ball he has played in his career.
By proxy, Jeff Hornacek makes you look bad. Its ironic.
Facts matter. When your void of them its best to say nothing.

Burke had back to back 18pt games on his 5th and 6th appearance.... he's been shooting 51% all year. His assists numbers are great... when you are void of facts it's best to shut the **** up

you can pull those muthaphucking bitch ass **** facts out the ass you want to paint a picture of and circle jerk the shyt out of it with Knicks1248 to satisfy anal retentive facts if you want but it don’t change the phucking shyt out of the got damn muthaphucking concept of butch ass conversation I have with lying ass muthaphucking JH hating fool for his own self gradifcation poster who likes to blow himself then brag he “Got some”! That not you Eny, is it?
You want to jump in the shyt convo with diarrhea of the mouth cuz you grumpy is on you.
Me, You can fire JH, blame him for everything but he gets cred for Burke.

Better languge art for today?

Come on fellas.....Lets be a better example to these new members. You guys been around the block too long for this type of dialogue.

At least when I do it it's creative and I'm actually still managing to talk basketball.... this Nalod rant sounds like a 3rd grader writing notes to a friend in class....not one basketball reference in it.

Eny, you know I could give two shyts and a phuch about your language and my post reeks of sarcasim!!! There was basketball reference, I give JH cred for burke!!! LOL
Lighten up man! You used to have fun even in the darkest of knick hours!!

It's ridiculous when you try to act as if JH is voided of any accountability.

JH is on pace to finish the season 3-41, if he started the first half of the season like that he would have already been fired.

You do realize MSG has investor that want answers

Knicks make money. Pay we pay coaches to not coach every few years. Drop in the bucket!
The things they are doing will help the future.
Again, your being open concepting, you say replace him and just asssume change is improvement.
Since you dont read, you don’t notice I really don’t care if he stays or goes but your reasons are pretty lacking substance. If you fire a man you have to be solid in your convictions about where your going next. Also acting like you know shyt is sad.
We all see the record of the team.
When the players call out media and defend the coach its more telling than the stuff you make up.
KOQ had a beef then said he was wrong to over react and it was just a thing. That’s telling.
Noah we don’t know the story in full. I’m not sure why he was banished.

knicks1248
Posts: 42059
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
4/6/2018  8:24 AM
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
blkexec wrote:
Nalod wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
fishmike wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:Chauncey Billups is the ultimate case study on a guy that looked like a bust that then turned into a star. Multiple teams gave up on him. He didn't turn it around until he was 25.. which happens to be how old Burke is now. It doesn't always click right away

disagree... Billups had bad shooting #s but he was productive player his first couple years. He could play... first 3 years he was like a 5/5/4 guy who could play D. The big thing was his role... was he a PG? But Billups was still putting up good #s.

...AAAAND (I just rechecked Burke's #s)

You are more right than I thought. For some reason I though Burke's #s were much lower but his first couple years w/ the Jazz he was more productive than I thought.

Problem with Burke is hiding him on defense but he's showing to be a fantastic offensive player. The low TOs considering his usage are the key for me.

thank you for re-clarifying. My point was that PG is not an easy position. Sometimes it just takes some time. I know Mudiay hasn't looked great but I think it was a smart move to bring in lotto PGs whose stock was low. I'm pretty sure Perry learned that trick in Detroit

I can't believe he sat this long, it just made no sense when JH goal was to up the pace.

I also think it take the right kind of vets to have around young players, and im not talking washed up vets, im talking very productive ones in their prime like KG was to Billups.

Burkes play can be good for a player like frank

How was his first games when he was called up? Not so great, some good, some DNP
You can't give any credit to JH for how Burkes season finished? It was a process.
When you know the result, its easy to say "if he gave him more time it would have happened sooner".
But you don't know the end result in January, you don't know until it happens.
Months later your so wise with hindsight.
Its the best ball he has played in his career.
By proxy, Jeff Hornacek makes you look bad. Its ironic.
Facts matter. When your void of them its best to say nothing.

Burke had back to back 18pt games on his 5th and 6th appearance.... he's been shooting 51% all year. His assists numbers are great... when you are void of facts it's best to shut the **** up

you can pull those muthaphucking bitch ass **** facts out the ass you want to paint a picture of and circle jerk the shyt out of it with Knicks1248 to satisfy anal retentive facts if you want but it don’t change the phucking shyt out of the got damn muthaphucking concept of butch ass conversation I have with lying ass muthaphucking JH hating fool for his own self gradifcation poster who likes to blow himself then brag he “Got some”! That not you Eny, is it?
You want to jump in the shyt convo with diarrhea of the mouth cuz you grumpy is on you.
Me, You can fire JH, blame him for everything but he gets cred for Burke.

Better languge art for today?

Come on fellas.....Lets be a better example to these new members. You guys been around the block too long for this type of dialogue.

At least when I do it it's creative and I'm actually still managing to talk basketball.... this Nalod rant sounds like a 3rd grader writing notes to a friend in class....not one basketball reference in it.

Eny, you know I could give two shyts and a phuch about your language and my post reeks of sarcasim!!! There was basketball reference, I give JH cred for burke!!! LOL
Lighten up man! You used to have fun even in the darkest of knick hours!!

It's ridiculous when you try to act as if JH is voided of any accountability.

JH is on pace to finish the season 3-41, if he started the first half of the season like that he would have already been fired.

You do realize MSG has investor that want answers

Knicks make money. Pay we pay coaches to not coach every few years. Drop in the bucket!
The things they are doing will help the future.
Again, your being open concepting, you say replace him and just asssume change is improvement.
Since you dont read, you don’t notice I really don’t care if he stays or goes but your reasons are pretty lacking substance. If you fire a man you have to be solid in your convictions about where your going next. Also acting like you know shyt is sad.
We all see the record of the team.
When the players call out media and defend the coach its more telling than the stuff you make up.
KOQ had a beef then said he was wrong to over react and it was just a thing. That’s telling.
Noah we don’t know the story in full. I’m not sure why he was banished.

Are you kidding me, they are always going to have players that are going to go to bat for a coach, Amare did it with MDA, melo did it with woodson.

The bottom line is nobody is getting the job done not the president, not the coach, and certainly not the players.

The FO lowered the bar to the floor for JH, they said they wanted to see him get the players to play hard, play with energy, play smart regardless of win and losses, has that happen..FCK NO.

WTF did he establish this yr, a system, a style, a culture, he didn't even establish a damn rotation.

ES
Nalod
Posts: 68632
Alba Posts: 154
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
4/6/2018  10:20 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
blkexec wrote:
Nalod wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
fishmike wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:Chauncey Billups is the ultimate case study on a guy that looked like a bust that then turned into a star. Multiple teams gave up on him. He didn't turn it around until he was 25.. which happens to be how old Burke is now. It doesn't always click right away

disagree... Billups had bad shooting #s but he was productive player his first couple years. He could play... first 3 years he was like a 5/5/4 guy who could play D. The big thing was his role... was he a PG? But Billups was still putting up good #s.

...AAAAND (I just rechecked Burke's #s)

You are more right than I thought. For some reason I though Burke's #s were much lower but his first couple years w/ the Jazz he was more productive than I thought.

Problem with Burke is hiding him on defense but he's showing to be a fantastic offensive player. The low TOs considering his usage are the key for me.

thank you for re-clarifying. My point was that PG is not an easy position. Sometimes it just takes some time. I know Mudiay hasn't looked great but I think it was a smart move to bring in lotto PGs whose stock was low. I'm pretty sure Perry learned that trick in Detroit

I can't believe he sat this long, it just made no sense when JH goal was to up the pace.

I also think it take the right kind of vets to have around young players, and im not talking washed up vets, im talking very productive ones in their prime like KG was to Billups.

Burkes play can be good for a player like frank

How was his first games when he was called up? Not so great, some good, some DNP
You can't give any credit to JH for how Burkes season finished? It was a process.
When you know the result, its easy to say "if he gave him more time it would have happened sooner".
But you don't know the end result in January, you don't know until it happens.
Months later your so wise with hindsight.
Its the best ball he has played in his career.
By proxy, Jeff Hornacek makes you look bad. Its ironic.
Facts matter. When your void of them its best to say nothing.

Burke had back to back 18pt games on his 5th and 6th appearance.... he's been shooting 51% all year. His assists numbers are great... when you are void of facts it's best to shut the **** up

you can pull those muthaphucking bitch ass **** facts out the ass you want to paint a picture of and circle jerk the shyt out of it with Knicks1248 to satisfy anal retentive facts if you want but it don’t change the phucking shyt out of the got damn muthaphucking concept of butch ass conversation I have with lying ass muthaphucking JH hating fool for his own self gradifcation poster who likes to blow himself then brag he “Got some”! That not you Eny, is it?
You want to jump in the shyt convo with diarrhea of the mouth cuz you grumpy is on you.
Me, You can fire JH, blame him for everything but he gets cred for Burke.

Better languge art for today?

Come on fellas.....Lets be a better example to these new members. You guys been around the block too long for this type of dialogue.

At least when I do it it's creative and I'm actually still managing to talk basketball.... this Nalod rant sounds like a 3rd grader writing notes to a friend in class....not one basketball reference in it.

Eny, you know I could give two shyts and a phuch about your language and my post reeks of sarcasim!!! There was basketball reference, I give JH cred for burke!!! LOL
Lighten up man! You used to have fun even in the darkest of knick hours!!

It's ridiculous when you try to act as if JH is voided of any accountability.

JH is on pace to finish the season 3-41, if he started the first half of the season like that he would have already been fired.

You do realize MSG has investor that want answers

Knicks make money. Pay we pay coaches to not coach every few years. Drop in the bucket!
The things they are doing will help the future.
Again, your being open concepting, you say replace him and just asssume change is improvement.
Since you dont read, you don’t notice I really don’t care if he stays or goes but your reasons are pretty lacking substance. If you fire a man you have to be solid in your convictions about where your going next. Also acting like you know shyt is sad.
We all see the record of the team.
When the players call out media and defend the coach its more telling than the stuff you make up.
KOQ had a beef then said he was wrong to over react and it was just a thing. That’s telling.
Noah we don’t know the story in full. I’m not sure why he was banished.

Are you kidding me, they are always going to have players that are going to go to bat for a coach, Amare did it with MDA, melo did it with woodson.

The bottom line is nobody is getting the job done not the president, not the coach, and certainly not the players.

The FO lowered the bar to the floor for JH, they said they wanted to see him get the players to play hard, play with energy, play smart regardless of win and losses, has that happen..FCK NO.

WTF did he establish this yr, a system, a style, a culture, he didn't even establish a damn rotation.

Mills might have been here a few years but its only since Phil walked out that he is on the clock. You can rant all you want but thats the time line of reality.
Perry here since August.
Seems like your a naive kind of guy who laps up the media stuff like "Mills said Willy was part of the future" and your like some cute little talking Disney kid "But, you said sir that Willy is our future", then now sobbing on the curb like a crushed soul. Even what Lee and Hardaway while telling is not an obsolute endorsement of JEff, its that the team is not blaming the coach. They are professonals and are being told what to do and not executing. You think its like some generic talent pool and the coach is the difference, its not. Knicks just don't have the talent. At the same time your developing guys which means one has to accept the deficit that creates for a better tomorrow.
WIth the injuries the rotation comment you made lacks substance. A culture of accountability and lack of finger pointing IS a culture. Play hard? Or "Play harder"?
Gee, they are losing games. PLay harder. Thats awesome. FO lowered the bar? How do you know that? Because they are long term oriented? You arrogant to think you know what the plan actually is? You arrogant enough to think some of us are too stupid to see the record and not know whats going on?
This is what rebuilding actually is. PHil tore it down but went with yoot but blended in Melo, Rose, Lee, Lance and Noah last year. When we were healthy we were over .500 and the assumption at the time was the team would improve over time on the road and perhaps we can get to the 8th spot. This while playing rookies and and jack. Now your all brazen with hindsight as if you knew it all would unfold like it has. You likely suffer from some form of "beaten down fan syndrome" to protect your fragile fandom and your not alone. Its easier to "be the negative guy".
Me, I don't know any more than most fans but remain positive because its my choice to watch the games and if so root for the team and what ever is going on. If frank is not scoring but doing other things Im going to enjoy it. I'd rather we do what we are doing then have traded for Brandon Knight, win a few more games, likly have traded Frank and pick 11th in the draft. The knicks lack depth. You fit right in.

knicks1248
Posts: 42059
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
4/6/2018  10:52 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/6/2018  10:53 AM
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
blkexec wrote:
Nalod wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
fishmike wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:Chauncey Billups is the ultimate case study on a guy that looked like a bust that then turned into a star. Multiple teams gave up on him. He didn't turn it around until he was 25.. which happens to be how old Burke is now. It doesn't always click right away

disagree... Billups had bad shooting #s but he was productive player his first couple years. He could play... first 3 years he was like a 5/5/4 guy who could play D. The big thing was his role... was he a PG? But Billups was still putting up good #s.

...AAAAND (I just rechecked Burke's #s)

You are more right than I thought. For some reason I though Burke's #s were much lower but his first couple years w/ the Jazz he was more productive than I thought.

Problem with Burke is hiding him on defense but he's showing to be a fantastic offensive player. The low TOs considering his usage are the key for me.

thank you for re-clarifying. My point was that PG is not an easy position. Sometimes it just takes some time. I know Mudiay hasn't looked great but I think it was a smart move to bring in lotto PGs whose stock was low. I'm pretty sure Perry learned that trick in Detroit

I can't believe he sat this long, it just made no sense when JH goal was to up the pace.

I also think it take the right kind of vets to have around young players, and im not talking washed up vets, im talking very productive ones in their prime like KG was to Billups.

Burkes play can be good for a player like frank

How was his first games when he was called up? Not so great, some good, some DNP
You can't give any credit to JH for how Burkes season finished? It was a process.
When you know the result, its easy to say "if he gave him more time it would have happened sooner".
But you don't know the end result in January, you don't know until it happens.
Months later your so wise with hindsight.
Its the best ball he has played in his career.
By proxy, Jeff Hornacek makes you look bad. Its ironic.
Facts matter. When your void of them its best to say nothing.

Burke had back to back 18pt games on his 5th and 6th appearance.... he's been shooting 51% all year. His assists numbers are great... when you are void of facts it's best to shut the **** up

you can pull those muthaphucking bitch ass **** facts out the ass you want to paint a picture of and circle jerk the shyt out of it with Knicks1248 to satisfy anal retentive facts if you want but it don’t change the phucking shyt out of the got damn muthaphucking concept of butch ass conversation I have with lying ass muthaphucking JH hating fool for his own self gradifcation poster who likes to blow himself then brag he “Got some”! That not you Eny, is it?
You want to jump in the shyt convo with diarrhea of the mouth cuz you grumpy is on you.
Me, You can fire JH, blame him for everything but he gets cred for Burke.

Better languge art for today?

Come on fellas.....Lets be a better example to these new members. You guys been around the block too long for this type of dialogue.

At least when I do it it's creative and I'm actually still managing to talk basketball.... this Nalod rant sounds like a 3rd grader writing notes to a friend in class....not one basketball reference in it.

Eny, you know I could give two shyts and a phuch about your language and my post reeks of sarcasim!!! There was basketball reference, I give JH cred for burke!!! LOL
Lighten up man! You used to have fun even in the darkest of knick hours!!

It's ridiculous when you try to act as if JH is voided of any accountability.

JH is on pace to finish the season 3-41, if he started the first half of the season like that he would have already been fired.

You do realize MSG has investor that want answers

Knicks make money. Pay we pay coaches to not coach every few years. Drop in the bucket!
The things they are doing will help the future.
Again, your being open concepting, you say replace him and just asssume change is improvement.
Since you dont read, you don’t notice I really don’t care if he stays or goes but your reasons are pretty lacking substance. If you fire a man you have to be solid in your convictions about where your going next. Also acting like you know shyt is sad.
We all see the record of the team.
When the players call out media and defend the coach its more telling than the stuff you make up.
KOQ had a beef then said he was wrong to over react and it was just a thing. That’s telling.
Noah we don’t know the story in full. I’m not sure why he was banished.

Are you kidding me, they are always going to have players that are going to go to bat for a coach, Amare did it with MDA, melo did it with woodson.

The bottom line is nobody is getting the job done not the president, not the coach, and certainly not the players.

The FO lowered the bar to the floor for JH, they said they wanted to see him get the players to play hard, play with energy, play smart regardless of win and losses, has that happen..FCK NO.

WTF did he establish this yr, a system, a style, a culture, he didn't even establish a damn rotation.

Mills might have been here a few years but its only since Phil walked out that he is on the clock. You can rant all you want but thats the time line of reality.
Perry here since August.
Seems like your a naive kind of guy who laps up the media stuff like "Mills said Willy was part of the future" and your like some cute little talking Disney kid "But, you said sir that Willy is our future", then now sobbing on the curb like a crushed soul. Even what Lee and Hardaway while telling is not an obsolute endorsement of JEff, its that the team is not blaming the coach. They are professonals and are being told what to do and not executing. You think its like some generic talent pool and the coach is the difference, its not. Knicks just don't have the talent. At the same time your developing guys which means one has to accept the deficit that creates for a better tomorrow.
WIth the injuries the rotation comment you made lacks substance. A culture of accountability and lack of finger pointing IS a culture. Play hard? Or "Play harder"?
Gee, they are losing games. PLay harder. Thats awesome. FO lowered the bar? How do you know that? Because they are long term oriented? You arrogant to think you know what the plan actually is? You arrogant enough to think some of us are too stupid to see the record and not know whats going on?
This is what rebuilding actually is. PHil tore it down but went with yoot but blended in Melo, Rose, Lee, Lance and Noah last year. When we were healthy we were over .500 and the assumption at the time was the team would improve over time on the road and perhaps we can get to the 8th spot. This while playing rookies and and jack. Now your all brazen with hindsight as if you knew it all would unfold like it has. You likely suffer from some form of "beaten down fan syndrome" to protect your fragile fandom and your not alone. Its easier to "be the negative guy".
Me, I don't know any more than most fans but remain positive because its my choice to watch the games and if so root for the team and what ever is going on. If frank is not scoring but doing other things Im going to enjoy it. I'd rather we do what we are doing then have traded for Brandon Knight, win a few more games, likly have traded Frank and pick 11th in the draft. The knicks lack depth. You fit right in.

Let me ask you something, why is it that every move being made you praise perry the GM, then act like mills the GM had nothing to do with our current roster.

You know how many teams loss key players for significant time and barely missed a beat.

Why are you even going back in forth with me about a coach who is gaziilion games under 500, you almost defending him in one sentence, then saying you don't care if he coms or goes.

Wake up dude

Optically, it doesn't help that Hornacek is known for being an offensive coach, and guided New York to the worst defensive rating in the NBA last season. He also sits in the untenable position of being the last guy's hire. Mills and Perry inherited the two years left of the coach's deal, and they've set a mandate of hustle and defense

How much hustle and defense did you see this season.

ES
meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/3/2014
Member: #5801

4/6/2018  6:43 PM
EnySpree wrote:
blkexec wrote:
Nalod wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
fishmike wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:Chauncey Billups is the ultimate case study on a guy that looked like a bust that then turned into a star. Multiple teams gave up on him. He didn't turn it around until he was 25.. which happens to be how old Burke is now. It doesn't always click right away

disagree... Billups had bad shooting #s but he was productive player his first couple years. He could play... first 3 years he was like a 5/5/4 guy who could play D. The big thing was his role... was he a PG? But Billups was still putting up good #s.

...AAAAND (I just rechecked Burke's #s)

You are more right than I thought. For some reason I though Burke's #s were much lower but his first couple years w/ the Jazz he was more productive than I thought.

Problem with Burke is hiding him on defense but he's showing to be a fantastic offensive player. The low TOs considering his usage are the key for me.

thank you for re-clarifying. My point was that PG is not an easy position. Sometimes it just takes some time. I know Mudiay hasn't looked great but I think it was a smart move to bring in lotto PGs whose stock was low. I'm pretty sure Perry learned that trick in Detroit

I can't believe he sat this long, it just made no sense when JH goal was to up the pace.

I also think it take the right kind of vets to have around young players, and im not talking washed up vets, im talking very productive ones in their prime like KG was to Billups.

Burkes play can be good for a player like frank

How was his first games when he was called up? Not so great, some good, some DNP
You can't give any credit to JH for how Burkes season finished? It was a process.
When you know the result, its easy to say "if he gave him more time it would have happened sooner".
But you don't know the end result in January, you don't know until it happens.
Months later your so wise with hindsight.
Its the best ball he has played in his career.
By proxy, Jeff Hornacek makes you look bad. Its ironic.
Facts matter. When your void of them its best to say nothing.

Burke had back to back 18pt games on his 5th and 6th appearance.... he's been shooting 51% all year. His assists numbers are great... when you are void of facts it's best to shut the **** up

you can pull those muthaphucking bitch ass **** facts out the ass you want to paint a picture of and circle jerk the shyt out of it with Knicks1248 to satisfy anal retentive facts if you want but it don’t change the phucking shyt out of the got damn muthaphucking concept of butch ass conversation I have with lying ass muthaphucking JH hating fool for his own self gradifcation poster who likes to blow himself then brag he “Got some”! That not you Eny, is it?
You want to jump in the shyt convo with diarrhea of the mouth cuz you grumpy is on you.
Me, You can fire JH, blame him for everything but he gets cred for Burke.

Better languge art for today?

Come on fellas.....Lets be a better example to these new members. You guys been around the block too long for this type of dialogue.

At least when I do it it's creative and I'm actually still managing to talk basketball.... this Nalod rant sounds like a 3rd grader writing notes to a friend in class....not one basketball reference in it.

Nalod's post was actually funny. I am still laughing.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
Nalod
Posts: 68632
Alba Posts: 154
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
4/7/2018  12:46 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
blkexec wrote:
Nalod wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
fishmike wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:Chauncey Billups is the ultimate case study on a guy that looked like a bust that then turned into a star. Multiple teams gave up on him. He didn't turn it around until he was 25.. which happens to be how old Burke is now. It doesn't always click right away

disagree... Billups had bad shooting #s but he was productive player his first couple years. He could play... first 3 years he was like a 5/5/4 guy who could play D. The big thing was his role... was he a PG? But Billups was still putting up good #s.

...AAAAND (I just rechecked Burke's #s)

You are more right than I thought. For some reason I though Burke's #s were much lower but his first couple years w/ the Jazz he was more productive than I thought.

Problem with Burke is hiding him on defense but he's showing to be a fantastic offensive player. The low TOs considering his usage are the key for me.

thank you for re-clarifying. My point was that PG is not an easy position. Sometimes it just takes some time. I know Mudiay hasn't looked great but I think it was a smart move to bring in lotto PGs whose stock was low. I'm pretty sure Perry learned that trick in Detroit

I can't believe he sat this long, it just made no sense when JH goal was to up the pace.

I also think it take the right kind of vets to have around young players, and im not talking washed up vets, im talking very productive ones in their prime like KG was to Billups.

Burkes play can be good for a player like frank

How was his first games when he was called up? Not so great, some good, some DNP
You can't give any credit to JH for how Burkes season finished? It was a process.
When you know the result, its easy to say "if he gave him more time it would have happened sooner".
But you don't know the end result in January, you don't know until it happens.
Months later your so wise with hindsight.
Its the best ball he has played in his career.
By proxy, Jeff Hornacek makes you look bad. Its ironic.
Facts matter. When your void of them its best to say nothing.

Burke had back to back 18pt games on his 5th and 6th appearance.... he's been shooting 51% all year. His assists numbers are great... when you are void of facts it's best to shut the **** up

you can pull those muthaphucking bitch ass **** facts out the ass you want to paint a picture of and circle jerk the shyt out of it with Knicks1248 to satisfy anal retentive facts if you want but it don’t change the phucking shyt out of the got damn muthaphucking concept of butch ass conversation I have with lying ass muthaphucking JH hating fool for his own self gradifcation poster who likes to blow himself then brag he “Got some”! That not you Eny, is it?
You want to jump in the shyt convo with diarrhea of the mouth cuz you grumpy is on you.
Me, You can fire JH, blame him for everything but he gets cred for Burke.

Better languge art for today?

Come on fellas.....Lets be a better example to these new members. You guys been around the block too long for this type of dialogue.

At least when I do it it's creative and I'm actually still managing to talk basketball.... this Nalod rant sounds like a 3rd grader writing notes to a friend in class....not one basketball reference in it.

Eny, you know I could give two shyts and a phuch about your language and my post reeks of sarcasim!!! There was basketball reference, I give JH cred for burke!!! LOL
Lighten up man! You used to have fun even in the darkest of knick hours!!

It's ridiculous when you try to act as if JH is voided of any accountability.

JH is on pace to finish the season 3-41, if he started the first half of the season like that he would have already been fired.

You do realize MSG has investor that want answers

Knicks make money. Pay we pay coaches to not coach every few years. Drop in the bucket!
The things they are doing will help the future.
Again, your being open concepting, you say replace him and just asssume change is improvement.
Since you dont read, you don’t notice I really don’t care if he stays or goes but your reasons are pretty lacking substance. If you fire a man you have to be solid in your convictions about where your going next. Also acting like you know shyt is sad.
We all see the record of the team.
When the players call out media and defend the coach its more telling than the stuff you make up.
KOQ had a beef then said he was wrong to over react and it was just a thing. That’s telling.
Noah we don’t know the story in full. I’m not sure why he was banished.

Are you kidding me, they are always going to have players that are going to go to bat for a coach, Amare did it with MDA, melo did it with woodson.

The bottom line is nobody is getting the job done not the president, not the coach, and certainly not the players.

The FO lowered the bar to the floor for JH, they said they wanted to see him get the players to play hard, play with energy, play smart regardless of win and losses, has that happen..FCK NO.

WTF did he establish this yr, a system, a style, a culture, he didn't even establish a damn rotation.

Mills might have been here a few years but its only since Phil walked out that he is on the clock. You can rant all you want but thats the time line of reality.
Perry here since August.
Seems like your a naive kind of guy who laps up the media stuff like "Mills said Willy was part of the future" and your like some cute little talking Disney kid "But, you said sir that Willy is our future", then now sobbing on the curb like a crushed soul. Even what Lee and Hardaway while telling is not an obsolute endorsement of JEff, its that the team is not blaming the coach. They are professonals and are being told what to do and not executing. You think its like some generic talent pool and the coach is the difference, its not. Knicks just don't have the talent. At the same time your developing guys which means one has to accept the deficit that creates for a better tomorrow.
WIth the injuries the rotation comment you made lacks substance. A culture of accountability and lack of finger pointing IS a culture. Play hard? Or "Play harder"?
Gee, they are losing games. PLay harder. Thats awesome. FO lowered the bar? How do you know that? Because they are long term oriented? You arrogant to think you know what the plan actually is? You arrogant enough to think some of us are too stupid to see the record and not know whats going on?
This is what rebuilding actually is. PHil tore it down but went with yoot but blended in Melo, Rose, Lee, Lance and Noah last year. When we were healthy we were over .500 and the assumption at the time was the team would improve over time on the road and perhaps we can get to the 8th spot. This while playing rookies and and jack. Now your all brazen with hindsight as if you knew it all would unfold like it has. You likely suffer from some form of "beaten down fan syndrome" to protect your fragile fandom and your not alone. Its easier to "be the negative guy".
Me, I don't know any more than most fans but remain positive because its my choice to watch the games and if so root for the team and what ever is going on. If frank is not scoring but doing other things Im going to enjoy it. I'd rather we do what we are doing then have traded for Brandon Knight, win a few more games, likly have traded Frank and pick 11th in the draft. The knicks lack depth. You fit right in.

Let me ask you something, why is it that every move being made you praise perry the GM, then act like mills the GM had nothing to do with our current roster.

You know how many teams loss key players for significant time and barely missed a beat.

Why are you even going back in forth with me about a coach who is gaziilion games under 500, you almost defending him in one sentence, then saying you don't care if he coms or goes.

Wake up dude

Optically, it doesn't help that Hornacek is known for being an offensive coach, and guided New York to the worst defensive rating in the NBA last season. He also sits in the untenable position of being the last guy's hire. Mills and Perry inherited the two years left of the coach's deal, and they've set a mandate of hustle and defense

How much hustle and defense did you see this season.

When a player succeeds you praise it. When not, Blame Phil.

knickstorrents
Posts: 21121
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/23/2010
Member: #3050
Hong Kong
4/9/2018  12:18 AM
fishmike wrote:Only focused on guards as front court players really have a different set of challenges than PGs

Reggie Jackson had two empty years before popping
Kyle Lowry was pretty quiet first 3-4 years before he low end rotation guy to all star caliber

Maybe the most hopeful is Goran Dragic whos first 5 years in the NBA were about as underwhelming as Burke's. His first year with Pho he really broke out. His 2nd year with Pho was all star caliber playing under none other than Hornacek.

Could Burke be our Dragic? Plug him in for 15ppg, 8assists and shooting 48% for next year?


My main issue with Trey is he's undersized, here's the comparison:

Reggie Jackson - 6'3" with 7'0 wingspan (yes, 7 foot wingspan)
Kyle Lowry - 6'1" can't find wingspan
Goran Dragic - 6'4" with 'above average' wingspan (can't find measurements) http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Goran-Dragic-1025/

Trey Burke - 6'0" 6'5" wingspan

I guess Lowry is the closest in terms of measurements, but Lowry is known as a decent defender.

Rose is not the answer.
Chandler
Posts: 25988
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/26/2015
Member: #6197

4/11/2018  10:23 AM
i'm not a JH hater, but think we can do better (i.e., reasonably greasy) -- though not sure i have the answer as to who

I think of Brad Stevens and what he could do with Isiah and others. He would find a way to exploit Trey's offense and mitigate his defense and size issues. Also think he would find a way in which KP could terrorize the league.

Very happy for Trey. He's exploiting an opportunity in a way that Mudiay hasn't or can't

(5)(5)
context for Trey Burke... good players after lame NBA career starts

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