blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:this is the first year of a new front office. This is the first time since I have followed the Knicks (late 80s) the world rebuild has ever been used. The only vets this FO has brought in are ones willing to work with young players, which Jack/Beasley (Sessions was also) were. The only commitment was to Hardaway who at $17mm is... OK. Kanter is 25 and has had some huge games vs. Embiid already so Im not sure what you are looking at there aside from the usual sky is falling.

Knicks are NOT where Boston or Philly are. There is no relevance in comparing them. You mentioned Noel, OK, Williams... How long where all those guys in Phili? Longer than the 12 minutes your ideas last.

The only strategy here should be how to build around KP successfully so we are a playoff-bound team when he is 100% healthy by surrounding him with good, young pieces. Any reaction from Briggs and others alike who say offer IT a big contract, blow it all up by trading KP, or whatever will always be a knee-jerk reaction to another lost season in the win-column. That is what rebuilding is, taking the lumps until you get it right. KP has an entire career ahead of him, there is no rush or need to make another franchise-altering direction. We know what the direction of the front office is, adding talent in the 20-25 age range and hope to hit on some of them. Debating other directions after each game is pointless.

There havent been any quick fix moves to make the playoffs. Were stockpiling picks. G league development is having a positive impact on the team. Players and mgmt are more or less on the same page. This is how its done.

Exactly right. But because we aren't the Celtics or Sixers already, we must be doing it all wrong!!!

To add: For me, how the front office handles the next 2 drafts, KOQ/Kanter/Lee over the next 2 seasons, mid-level signings, free agent cap space signings in 2019 will tell us a lot about their capability.

Next 2 drafts will be make or break for this organization moving forward.

For me: Kanter/KOQ/Lee

Maybe it's me, but having Kanter as your starter, next to KP, with a poor man version of KP off the bench? That's got to be one of the softest defensive units in the NBA. Lance Thomas is a solid player to have. He guards all the best players in the NBA, and does ok hitting a few jumpers. But If Kanter and Lance are in the starting lineup, then we will always be behind the elite teams.

Same things I said about Melo is the same with KP. We need players around KP that fill his weaknesses. KP is a good shot blocker, but he can't protect the rim, and leak out on fastbreaks and try to be this offensive all star. We need a shot blocker and a center that plays defense, instead of standing under the rim looking for a charge, just to get posturized.

Lance Thomas should be sitting next to Jack, getting ready for an assistant coaching position. Watching the game yesterday made it clear to me. This team goes as far as Lance offense goes (he's open for a reason). This team goes as far as Kanters rim protection (too easy to score on Kanter). A healthy KP covered up these weaknesses before he went down. Now they are exposed again, which is good. Maybe now without KP, management can clearly see where the holes are. Center and SF....Defense, Athletes, Catch and shoot players.

I think you and I are in agreement but I can't tell?

All three need to be gone from the Knicks if we are building a deep playoff team. And THJr needs to come off the bench.

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:this is the first year of a new front office. This is the first time since I have followed the Knicks (late 80s) the world rebuild has ever been used. The only vets this FO has brought in are ones willing to work with young players, which Jack/Beasley (Sessions was also) were. The only commitment was to Hardaway who at $17mm is... OK. Kanter is 25 and has had some huge games vs. Embiid already so Im not sure what you are looking at there aside from the usual sky is falling.

Knicks are NOT where Boston or Philly are. There is no relevance in comparing them. You mentioned Noel, OK, Williams... How long where all those guys in Phili? Longer than the 12 minutes your ideas last.

The only strategy here should be how to build around KP successfully so we are a playoff-bound team when he is 100% healthy by surrounding him with good, young pieces. Any reaction from Briggs and others alike who say offer IT a big contract, blow it all up by trading KP, or whatever will always be a knee-jerk reaction to another lost season in the win-column. That is what rebuilding is, taking the lumps until you get it right. KP has an entire career ahead of him, there is no rush or need to make another franchise-altering direction. We know what the direction of the front office is, adding talent in the 20-25 age range and hope to hit on some of them. Debating other directions after each game is pointless.

There havent been any quick fix moves to make the playoffs. Were stockpiling picks. G league development is having a positive impact on the team. Players and mgmt are more or less on the same page. This is how its done.

Exactly right. But because we aren't the Celtics or Sixers already, we must be doing it all wrong!!!

To add: For me, how the front office handles the next 2 drafts, KOQ/Kanter/Lee over the next 2 seasons, mid-level signings, free agent cap space signings in 2019 will tell us a lot about their capability.

Next 2 drafts will be make or break for this organization moving forward.

For me: Kanter/KOQ/Lee

Maybe it's me, but having Kanter as your starter, next to KP, with a poor man version of KP off the bench? That's got to be one of the softest defensive units in the NBA. Lance Thomas is a solid player to have. He guards all the best players in the NBA, and does ok hitting a few jumpers. But If Kanter and Lance are in the starting lineup, then we will always be behind the elite teams.

Same things I said about Melo is the same with KP. We need players around KP that fill his weaknesses. KP is a good shot blocker, but he can't protect the rim, and leak out on fastbreaks and try to be this offensive all star. We need a shot blocker and a center that plays defense, instead of standing under the rim looking for a charge, just to get posturized.

Lance Thomas should be sitting next to Jack, getting ready for an assistant coaching position. Watching the game yesterday made it clear to me. This team goes as far as Lance offense goes (he's open for a reason). This team goes as far as Kanters rim protection (too easy to score on Kanter). A healthy KP covered up these weaknesses before he went down. Now they are exposed again, which is good. Maybe now without KP, management can clearly see where the holes are. Center and SF....Defense, Athletes, Catch and shoot players.

I think you and I are in agreement but I can't tell?

All three need to be gone from the Knicks if we are building a deep playoff team. And THJr needs to come off the bench.

I agree

Vmart wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Just in our own division for the next 7-8 years. I don't know how well find the talent philly has. The bottom line is the pain they went through was worth it. The chances and patience they had was worth it. They also like Bremen said tonight cut ties quick w high picks. This is going to be a championship team if healthy one day soon-- wish we could've taken the same path.

I totally agree with you. The Knicks don’t have a plan in place to do what is necessary. Phil got them two to work with. In KP and Frank the rest from this point in is all crap shoot. They are going to throw shyt at the wall and hope it sticks.

It's always a head scratcher for me when someone says that someone else doesn't have a plan in place when they have zero idea of what is going on behind the scenes.

The Knicks have a plan. It may not be a good one and may fail, all teams go through that.

By all accounts, they have a very good GLeague team and have invested there.

They have drafted and brought up a lot of guards that are defensive minded. IMHO THJr was a flat mistake but could be that Mills/Knicks felt like they needed some sort of upgrade/shot in the arm to help team out and maybe he was also a player on the upswing.

Knicks have 2 drafts coming up and lots of players coming off cap in that same timeframe. IF, and it's a big if, if they play it right and nail 2 more solid players through draft (and let's be frank, one of those guys REALLY needs to pan out), and they are able to snag a max player, they are on their way.

Lots of IFs and they need another BIG break.

Let's see how they handle KOQ/Kanter/Lee.

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:this is the first year of a new front office. This is the first time since I have followed the Knicks (late 80s) the world rebuild has ever been used. The only vets this FO has brought in are ones willing to work with young players, which Jack/Beasley (Sessions was also) were. The only commitment was to Hardaway who at $17mm is... OK. Kanter is 25 and has had some huge games vs. Embiid already so Im not sure what you are looking at there aside from the usual sky is falling.

Knicks are NOT where Boston or Philly are. There is no relevance in comparing them. You mentioned Noel, OK, Williams... How long where all those guys in Phili? Longer than the 12 minutes your ideas last.

So what exactly do you call what walsh do.

You think sitting on your hands waiting for the lottery is how your going to get better(is that your love affair with the process), it takes trades, FA, coaching, gambles, luck, and a commitment to winning

Has this front office proven they are capaable of that?

they tried it your way for 15 years and it never worked. Im glad they are doing it a different way and not making those stupid trades they used to make throwing away constant picks/youth for bloated contracts

You have to make trades dude, no one is saying they had to be like yrs pass, but your going to have to get those key pieces through trades, and there's going to be some sacrificing involve. If you sit on your hands and make minor trades like they did with willy and mudiay, lateral moves that sustain the losing culture, your pretty much going to GET FIRED in NYC, and its like that with mostly all the TEAMS.

I trust this regime based on what i've seen since Perry came on board. They've been looking at the right KIND of players and I think they have a handle on what they need to improve this team. IMO Scooping up Burke, Mudiay and Troy are the right kind of moves given what they had to work with. Knicks are actually using the G League and have a great farm team. One of the good things that Phil did and this regime has continued the process.

nixluva wrote:The Knicks are about to add their 3rd top 10 Draft pick in the last 4 years. Not this regimes fault that they didn't have a 1st rd pick in 2016, but KP in 2015, Frank 2017 and this 2018 Pick is a good start given what we had to work with. Kudos to Philly and Boston for stockpiling picks and building good teams. There's no point crying over their success. Just focus on building this team the right way.

I trust this regime based on what i've seen since Perry came on board. They've been looking at the right KIND of players and I think they have a handle on what they need to improve this team. IMO Scooping up Burke, Mudiay and Troy are the right kind of moves given what they had to work with. Knicks are actually using the G League and have a great farm team. One of the good things that Phil did and this regime has continued the process.

You do realize that the sixers have two players they drafted that are both in essentially their 1st full season and have put the franchise 14 games over 500. where have our 2 high draft picks but guess where they landed us, back in the draft.

I don't know how you can be gun hoe about the up incoming draft when this same team perry/mills haven't be able to get it right.

No risk, no reward

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:this is the first year of a new front office. This is the first time since I have followed the Knicks (late 80s) the world rebuild has ever been used. The only vets this FO has brought in are ones willing to work with young players, which Jack/Beasley (Sessions was also) were. The only commitment was to Hardaway who at $17mm is... OK. Kanter is 25 and has had some huge games vs. Embiid already so Im not sure what you are looking at there aside from the usual sky is falling.

Knicks are NOT where Boston or Philly are. There is no relevance in comparing them. You mentioned Noel, OK, Williams... How long where all those guys in Phili? Longer than the 12 minutes your ideas last.

So what exactly do you call what walsh do.

You think sitting on your hands waiting for the lottery is how your going to get better(is that your love affair with the process), it takes trades, FA, coaching, gambles, luck, and a commitment to winning

Has this front office proven they are capaable of that?

they tried it your way for 15 years and it never worked. Im glad they are doing it a different way and not making those stupid trades they used to make throwing away constant picks/youth for bloated contracts

You have to make trades dude, no one is saying they had to be like yrs pass, but your going to have to get those key pieces through trades, and there's going to be some sacrificing involve. If you sit on your hands and make minor trades like they did with willy and mudiay, lateral moves that sustain the losing culture, your pretty much going to GET FIRED in NYC, and its like that with mostly all the TEAMS.

what players? Who's changing the losing culture? Guys you have mentioned in the past... Bringing back Rose, Bledsoe, Kemba Walker... Who else? You understand that other NBA are not looking to help out the Knicks? Serious I am wondering if you do understand this...

what do you mean no NBA team is trying to help out the knicks...smh

" WINNING IS NOT A PRIORITY FOR THE FRONT OFFICE", And you have to win in order to have stability, no job is safe in a losing environment (player, coach, GM, Prez). It brings negativity, low moral, selfishness, minimal communication, and most important CONSTANT CHAnGE, everything you have had a front row seat to witness over the last 5 seasons.

3 yrs, that's all you have and 2 of those years have to be playoffs, even if it's a low seed. (see jh contract as an example)

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:this is the first year of a new front office. This is the first time since I have followed the Knicks (late 80s) the world rebuild has ever been used. The only vets this FO has brought in are ones willing to work with young players, which Jack/Beasley (Sessions was also) were. The only commitment was to Hardaway who at $17mm is... OK. Kanter is 25 and has had some huge games vs. Embiid already so Im not sure what you are looking at there aside from the usual sky is falling.

Knicks are NOT where Boston or Philly are. There is no relevance in comparing them. You mentioned Noel, OK, Williams... How long where all those guys in Phili? Longer than the 12 minutes your ideas last.

The only strategy here should be how to build around KP successfully so we are a playoff-bound team when he is 100% healthy by surrounding him with good, young pieces. Any reaction from Briggs and others alike who say offer IT a big contract, blow it all up by trading KP, or whatever will always be a knee-jerk reaction to another lost season in the win-column. That is what rebuilding is, taking the lumps until you get it right. KP has an entire career ahead of him, there is no rush or need to make another franchise-altering direction. We know what the direction of the front office is, adding talent in the 20-25 age range and hope to hit on some of them. Debating other directions after each game is pointless.

There havent been any quick fix moves to make the playoffs. Were stockpiling picks. G league development is having a positive impact on the team. Players and mgmt are more or less on the same page. This is how its done.

Exactly right. But because we aren't the Celtics or Sixers already, we must be doing it all wrong!!!

To add: For me, how the front office handles the next 2 drafts, KOQ/Kanter/Lee over the next 2 seasons, mid-level signings, free agent cap space signings in 2019 will tell us a lot about their capability.

Next 2 drafts will be make or break for this organization moving forward.

For me: KantPart/KOQ/Lee

Maybe it's me, but having Kanter as your starter, next to KP, with a poor man version of KP off the bench? That's got to be one of the softest defensive units in the NBA. Lance Thomas is a solid player to have. He guards all the best players in the NBA, and does ok hitting a few jumpers. But If Kanter and Lance are in the starting lineup, then we will always be behind the elite teams.

Same things I said about Melo is the same with KP. We need players around KP that fill his weaknesses. KP is a good shot blocker, but he can't protect the rim, and leak out on fastbreaks and try to be this offensive all star. We need a shot blocker and a center that plays defense, instead of standing under the rim looking for a charge, just to get posturized.

Lance Thomas should be sitting next to Jack, getting ready for an assistant coaching position. Watching the game yesterday made it clear to me. This team goes as far as Lance offense goes (he's open for a reason). This team goes as far as Kanters rim protection (too easy to score on Kanter). A healthy KP covered up these weaknesses before he went down. Now they are exposed again, which is good. Maybe now without KP, management can clearly see where the holes are. Center and SF....Defense, Athletes, Catch and shoot players.

I think you and I are in agreement but I can't tell?

All three need to be gone from the Knicks if we are building a deep playoff team. And THJr needs to come off the bench.

I'm curious - what do you think the Knicks should do if Kanter opts out? Part of me would be happy with him back at a reasonable rate. Part of me worries that if they don't bring him back, they will lock the money up to add another talent similar to THjr- and that would be horrible because we just don't have enough talent to lock up salary on non-franchise changing talent..