fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:No one tanks like Mudiay a -22 off/def rating, a sweet -13 tonight. Perry and Mills are geniuses. Fool everyone into thinking your rolling the dice on a former 7th pick but the truth is you know he will help you lose games. Perfect to throw off the anti-tanking contention. At least this is what I tell myself because if they think this guy can play, we are frickin doomed.

What if Mills and Perry actually think he can play. That is scary stuff right there. Hey but he is young.

you know what is scary? Making something up and then posting an emotional reaction to your own imagination.

Excuse me what is made up? I gave you a fact obviously Mills and Perry think he could play or he wouldn’t be on the Knicks. Another fact is I think that is scary if they do think he can play.

Fish stop acting like you got all the answers you don’t just like everyone here including me. All we doing is throwing darts at a wall blindfolded. What does it say about Mudiay that Denver developed another PG under his watch.

Only thing Mudiay is good for is the tank. Which is basically the title of the thread.

I dont have to act. Its incredibly easy to see from your comments you have zero idea what Mills and Perry think. But you had no problem with saying how your opinion of what they may think is scary.

Knicks have a scouting report on Mudiay like everyone else does. You have zero facts on what Perry and Mills think about Mudiay. You DO have some facts on what Perry and Mills think of McDermot. Mudiay? You are spouting out your butt and making stuff up. Scary to think indeed!

Knicks are learning about Mudiay the player and Mudiay the man. Doing so cost them McD. The day before this trade went down I said Mudiay was garbage. I applauded the trade. I still stick by both sentiments. McD wasnt getting resigned here. They saw what they wanted to see in McD. McD was 26 and ready for a new contract. The Knicks flipped him for another guy much younger signed for next year. This is called taking a cheap look at a prospect who's dropped. Scary you cant see how incredibly basic this trade was and why. Scary you need to make it into something dramatic. Stop being scared.

There you go again with your usually verbal BS assault. You know what is incredibly sad about you is that your dense. You can’t see that Mudiay shouldn’t even be on this team. This team has Burke and Ntlikina already these guys have him taking developmental time from Ntlikina and Dotson. What’s more important you develop your homegrown players or you give preference to a player that has been given up on because he has performed poorly. For some reason Mills and Perry think they can make it work for him here.

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:No one tanks like Mudiay a -22 off/def rating, a sweet -13 tonight. Perry and Mills are geniuses. Fool everyone into thinking your rolling the dice on a former 7th pick but the truth is you know he will help you lose games. Perfect to throw off the anti-tanking contention. At least this is what I tell myself because if they think this guy can play, we are frickin doomed.

What if Mills and Perry actually think he can play. That is scary stuff right there. Hey but he is young.

you know what is scary? Making something up and then posting an emotional reaction to your own imagination.

Excuse me what is made up? I gave you a fact obviously Mills and Perry think he could play or he wouldn’t be on the Knicks. Another fact is I think that is scary if they do think he can play.

Fish stop acting like you got all the answers you don’t just like everyone here including me. All we doing is throwing darts at a wall blindfolded. What does it say about Mudiay that Denver developed another PG under his watch.

Only thing Mudiay is good for is the tank. Which is basically the title of the thread.

We paid very little for Mudiay. if your scared that Perry does not recognize this for what it is ( a low risk opportunity), well that's a bit delusional on your part!

fishmike wrote:Burke can really score and handle the ball. His FG% has been fantastic with the Knicks. I think the Knicks also know exactly what they have in Burke. He's a defensive hole. He's done a very good job defending 1-1 play and staying in front of his guy but his diminutive size gets him killed on screens and basic P&R.

I like Burke and what he's done. He could be a backup PG and scorer off the bench for years. His lack of defense limits his upside but he's earned his way into the mix for now.

Burke has played really well he is the best player on the floor most nights

Knixkik wrote:

franco12 wrote:why is everyone down on the kid? Unlike Frank, he can score. Granted, he needs help and needs to improve. Defense might not be the best, but at 22, he has a lot of ball in front of him.

We don't need him to become some all star- just serviceable so we can fill in with star power elsewhere to go along with KP.

He really can't score though. He's just as inefficient on offense as Frank, only difference is he's more aggressive. Frank played tough D, he's at least a 1-way player right now. Mudiay is a 0-way player. Pretty sure Mudiay is one of the worst in the league on both sides of the ball.

Oh yeah, statistically he is but he is great for tanking so I love his game.

Jmpasq wrote:

fishmike wrote:Burke can really score and handle the ball. His FG% has been fantastic with the Knicks. I think the Knicks also know exactly what they have in Burke. He's a defensive hole. He's done a very good job defending 1-1 play and staying in front of his guy but his diminutive size gets him killed on screens and basic P&R.

I like Burke and what he's done. He could be a backup PG and scorer off the bench for years. His lack of defense limits his upside but he's earned his way into the mix for now.

Burke has played really well he is the best player on the floor most nights

Jmpasq wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

franco12 wrote:why is everyone down on the kid? Unlike Frank, he can score. Granted, he needs help and needs to improve. Defense might not be the best, but at 22, he has a lot of ball in front of him.

We don't need him to become some all star- just serviceable so we can fill in with star power elsewhere to go along with KP.

He really can't score though. He's just as inefficient on offense as Frank, only difference is he's more aggressive. Frank played tough D, he's at least a 1-way player right now. Mudiay is a 0-way player. Pretty sure Mudiay is one of the worst in the league on both sides of the ball.

Oh yeah, statistically he is but he is great for tanking so I love his game.

you all remind me of the people that wanted KT gone and thought it would be addition through subtraction.

The kid is 22 years old.

Has anyone taught him to play defense?

Has there been a structure in place to help him develop.

It is hard enough to be a fan of this team. We've got a young player who might get better. He might improve.

If you think you can write him off, then you're either some NBA executive with too much time on your hands, or your an idiot.

I'm going with the latter.

franco12 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

franco12 wrote:why is everyone down on the kid? Unlike Frank, he can score. Granted, he needs help and needs to improve. Defense might not be the best, but at 22, he has a lot of ball in front of him.

We don't need him to become some all star- just serviceable so we can fill in with star power elsewhere to go along with KP.

He really can't score though. He's just as inefficient on offense as Frank, only difference is he's more aggressive. Frank played tough D, he's at least a 1-way player right now. Mudiay is a 0-way player. Pretty sure Mudiay is one of the worst in the league on both sides of the ball.

Oh yeah, statistically he is but he is great for tanking so I love his game.

you all remind me of the people that wanted KT gone and thought it would be addition through subtraction.

The kid is 22 years old.

Has anyone taught him to play defense?

Has there been a structure in place to help him develop.

It is hard enough to be a fan of this team. We've got a young player who might get better. He might improve.

If you think you can write him off, then you're either some NBA executive with too much time on your hands, or your an idiot.

I'm going with the latter.

I agree with u that he can improve. The issue is he is 22 already and his learning curve is so steep on both sides of the ball that he will have to improve insurmountable just to become a near average PG. Compare that to Frank who's just 19 and his learning curve is only steep on one side of the ball. Mudiay will improve, but will have to become a completely different player to become a rotation caliber player.

Cartman718 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Burke looks like he is going to be back. Would make a great backup PG. Mudiay isnt going to be on the team past next season, pretty sure of that. Still a question mark as to who will be the starting PG next season. Might be decided in preseason. Dont see anyone as a lock to start opening day unless its a big trade for a quality vet.

We got some extra 2nd rounders from the Willy trade, no big deal if Mudiay doesnt pan out. Shows how bad they want PGs who can get to the rim.

i dont think Burke will be back...he's definitely a defensive liability. Mudiay...I still have hopes. Hornacek's conversation and Frank's commitment has him playing better. Maybe same thing can happen with Mudiay.

Even Bornacek said Burkes D is better than billed. As a backup PG it would be foolish to pass on Burke because his defense isnt quite starter material. Look at what we have now. Burke gets buckets and he can dish.

Jmpasq wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

franco12 wrote:why is everyone down on the kid? Unlike Frank, he can score. Granted, he needs help and needs to improve. Defense might not be the best, but at 22, he has a lot of ball in front of him.

We don't need him to become some all star- just serviceable so we can fill in with star power elsewhere to go along with KP.

He really can't score though. He's just as inefficient on offense as Frank, only difference is he's more aggressive. Frank played tough D, he's at least a 1-way player right now. Mudiay is a 0-way player. Pretty sure Mudiay is one of the worst in the league on both sides of the ball.

Oh yeah, statistically he is but he is great for tanking so I love his game.

you all remind me of the people that wanted KT gone and thought it would be addition through subtraction.

The kid is 22 years old.

Has anyone taught him to play defense?

Has there been a structure in place to help him develop.

It is hard enough to be a fan of this team. We've got a young player who might get better. He might improve.

If you think you can write him off, then you're either some NBA executive with too much time on your hands, or your an idiot.

I'm going with the latter.

I agree with u that he can improve. The issue is he is 22 already and his learning curve is so steep on both sides of the ball that he will have to improve insurmountable just to become a near average PG. Compare that to Frank who's just 19 and his learning curve is only steep on one side of the ball. Mudiay will improve, but will have to become a completely different player to become a rotation caliber player.

22 already? That is not old.

Yes, he is not likely to become an all star. But lets not write him off.

Frank may be great on the defensive side of the ball, but unless he develops some kind of offensive game, what is he but a bit specialist role player that won't have value on a team like ours.

Do you realize how bad Mudiay is? To get to average would be a huge improvement. Look at his +/- on the year. Thats his plus minus per minute at the end. Every minute Mudiay plays we lose a 1/4 of a point

order PLAYER TEAM AGE GP W L MIN +/- +/-
1 Cristiano Felicio CHI 25 42 10 32 632 -240 -0.379746835
2 Malik Monk CHA 20 50 20 30 593 -199 -0.335581788
3 Josh Jackson PHX 21 67 18 49 1604 -441 -0.274937656
4 Bismack Biyombo ORL 25 70 21 49 1307 -348 -0.266258607
5 DeAndre Liggins NOP 29 49 27 22 648 -172 -0.265432099
6 Zach LaVine CHI 23 24 9 15 656 -172 -0.262195122
7 Paul Zipser CHI 24 50 17 33 741 -188 -0.253711201
8 Emmanuel Mudiay NYK 22 55 25 30 1083 -273 -0.252077562
9 Ben McLemore MEM 25 45 5 40 827 -194 -0.23458283
10 Zach Randolph SAC 36 58 18 40 1492 -343 -0.229892761
11 Elfrid Payton PHX 24 58 13 45 1689 -384 -0.227353464
12 De'Aaron Fox SAC 20 61 20 41 1672 -366 -0.218899522
13 Dragan Bender PHX 20 70 19 51 1706 -365 -0.213950762
14 Tyson Chandler PHX 35 46 15 31 1151 -244 -0.211989574
15 Troy Daniels PHX 26 69 19 50 1357 -276 -0.203389831
16 TJ Warren PHX 24 64 18 46 2111 -427 -0.202273804
17 Tyler Ulis PHX 22 59 18 41 1311 -262 -0.199847445
18 Kosta Koufos SAC 29 65 21 44 1261 -245 -0.194290246
19 Devin Booker PHX 21 54 16 38 1865 -359 -0.192493298
20 Lauri Markkanen CHI 20 60 20 40 1825 -349 -0.191232877
21 D'Angelo Russell BKN 22 35 9 26 897 -167 -0.186176143
22 Dennis Smith Jr. DAL 20 60 20 40 1787 -332 -0.185786234
23 Marquese Chriss PHX 20 62 18 44 1259 -231 -0.183478952
24 Kris Dunn CHI 23 52 19 33 1525 -274 -0.179672131
25 Alex Len PHX 24 60 18 42 1183 -210 -0.177514793
26 Andrew Harrison MEM 23 52 16 36 1209 -213 -0.17617866
27 Garrett Temple SAC 31 63 23 40 1567 -275 -0.175494576
28 Bogdan Bogdanovic SAC 25 67 22 45 1850 -315 -0.17027027
29 JaMychal Green MEM 27 47 8 39 1306 -222 -0.169984686
30 Justin Jackson SAC 22 56 17 39 1169 -193 -0.165098375
31 Willie Cauley-Stein SAC 24 61 19 42 1698 -274 -0.161366313
32 Wesley Matthews DAL 31 63 20 43 2132 -326 -0.152908068
33 James Ennis III DET 27 59 17 42 1382 -206 -0.149059334
34 Taurean Prince ATL 23 69 20 49 2071 -307 -0.148237566
35 Caris LeVert BKN 23 59 19 40 1534 -227 -0.14797914
36 Jonathon Simmons ORL 28 69 21 48 2029 -296 -0.145884672
37 Mario Hezonja ORL 23 63 17 46 1301 -187 -0.143735588
38 George Hill CLE 31 57 20 37 1548 -221 -0.142764858
39 Dennis Schroder ATL 24 64 20 44 1980 -282 -0.142424242
40 Harrison Barnes DAL 25 67 22 45 2295 -316 -0.137690632
41 John Collins ATL 20 63 18 45 1460 -191 -0.130821918
42 Enes Kanter NYK 25 64 24 40 1643 -213 -0.129640901
43 Jerian Grant CHI 25 60 21 39 1363 -173 -0.126925899
44 Marc Gasol MEM 33 64 17 47 2161 -258 -0.119389172
45 Robin Lopez CHI 29 61 22 39 1625 -185 -0.113846154
46 Marco Belinelli PHI 31 66 25 41 1572 -176 -0.111959288
47 Denzel Valentine CHI 24 68 24 44 1861 -200 -0.107469103
48 Courtney Lee NYK 32 67 24 43 2089 -210 -0.100526568
49 Joe Harris BKN 26 67 21 46 1691 -163 -0.096392667
50 Dillon Brooks MEM 22 68 18 50 1949 -182 -0.093381221

Yeah exactly. He's been just so bad that a sizeable improvement would be needed just to get him to below average. Frank meanwhile is a no-stats guy who actually doesn't really hurt a team. I'm high on frank because he already has an impact that mudiay doesnt.

meloshouldgo wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:No one tanks like Mudiay a -22 off/def rating, a sweet -13 tonight. Perry and Mills are geniuses. Fool everyone into thinking your rolling the dice on a former 7th pick but the truth is you know he will help you lose games. Perfect to throw off the anti-tanking contention. At least this is what I tell myself because if they think this guy can play, we are frickin doomed.

What if Mills and Perry actually think he can play. That is scary stuff right there. Hey but he is young.

you know what is scary? Making something up and then posting an emotional reaction to your own imagination.

Excuse me what is made up? I gave you a fact obviously Mills and Perry think he could play or he wouldn’t be on the Knicks. Another fact is I think that is scary if they do think he can play.

Fish stop acting like you got all the answers you don’t just like everyone here including me. All we doing is throwing darts at a wall blindfolded. What does it say about Mudiay that Denver developed another PG under his watch.

Only thing Mudiay is good for is the tank. Which is basically the title of the thread.

I dont have to act. Its incredibly easy to see from your comments you have zero idea what Mills and Perry think. But you had no problem with saying how your opinion of what they may think is scary.

Knicks have a scouting report on Mudiay like everyone else does. You have zero facts on what Perry and Mills think about Mudiay. You DO have some facts on what Perry and Mills think of McDermot. Mudiay? You are spouting out your butt and making stuff up. Scary to think indeed!

Knicks are learning about Mudiay the player and Mudiay the man. Doing so cost them McD. The day before this trade went down I said Mudiay was garbage. I applauded the trade. I still stick by both sentiments. McD wasnt getting resigned here. They saw what they wanted to see in McD. McD was 26 and ready for a new contract. The Knicks flipped him for another guy much younger signed for next year. This is called taking a cheap look at a prospect who's dropped. Scary you cant see how incredibly basic this trade was and why. Scary you need to make it into something dramatic. Stop being scared.

There you go again with your usually verbal BS assault. You know what is incredibly sad about you is that your dense. You can’t see that Mudiay shouldn’t even be on this team. This team has Burke and Ntlikina already these guys have him taking developmental time from Ntlikina and Dotson. What’s more important you develop your homegrown players or you give preference to a player that has been given up on because he has performed poorly. For some reason Mills and Perry think they can make it work for him here.

This part of the argument I agree with. Mudiay is garbage and is eating up minutes. Dotson can't get in the floor. I WOULD like to see us give him heavy minutes and hey him make mistakes that watch Mudiay do his thing, which is basically nothing.