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Knicks are done for multi years
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codeunknown
Posts: 22598
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Member: #704
3/11/2018  3:51 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
codeunknown wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
codeunknown wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
franco12 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Unless a miracle--we are so far behind young teams like Philly Boston and Milwaukee that it will take a generational cycle to cleanse

I hear you! I had hopes earlier in the season. Seemed like we had something. Then Puff! Gone!

You're right that we are far behind those teams. I don't see how we build something halfway decent in the next 3 years.

KP is not the answer. Our Batman Franchise player is still not here. Doubt we are getting them in the draft where we are picking.

So, when does that player get here? 2019? And then they are 19, and need 3-5 years to develop. So, we're looking at 2022-2024? WTF?

Briggs is right. Patience only gets us through the suffering, doesn't actually fix anything.

I think Brooklyn makes it to the playoffs before we do. How about that! And actually, taking a look at the teams not making the playoffs- has any of them been as bad as we've been for as long as we have?

We're not fans, we're masochists.

Terrible position. One of the chances will come soon. Maybe the Gods will give us pick #1 and we do get Aayton. Id build around him with vets and do what I could to unleash mega cap space including trading KP. So there is our 2% chance.

Don’t agree about Ayton. He looks decent, but not better than KP. I’m fact, I’d take him after Young, Porter, Bagley, Bamba, and Jackson. I think our pieces are decent at this stage of the rebuild - I still like Frank as a starting point guard on a championship level team and KP, as well. We need high level playmakers and Young and Porter are the best in the draft imo. If we land either and it will take luck, I like our ability to compete down the line. Next year’s pick should allow more reinforcements.


There's so much wrong in this post that i don't even want to point it all out...lol

Theres no way youd take him after 6=7 different guys--clearly the number 1 pick with the profile to build around. One thing I can say pretty reasonably--Aayton is going 1. Now do we have a modicum of luck here?

Not to target you, Briggs, in particular, but its absurd even on its face to switch your predictions with the frequency that you do and then claim at every time point that your point of view is unimpeachable. Within this very thread (or the tank thread), I believe, you claim that Young and Bagley were the real prizes of the draft. Its ok to be wrong as even the best forecasters will miss, but its ridiculous to beat your chest at each time point without acknowledging the uncertainty that so quickly changes your very predictions. Not to mention the humility to realize that others may well interpret the data better than you.

Why is Ayton surefire to you, given the alternatives? Where does he project? Is there a comparison you see? Where do his college numbers translate, and where do they fall short? In what system, does he potentially succeed of fail to reach the estimated potential?

No chest beating here. I know you know college hoop-- and the draft is a 6 month fluid process so opinions will change But at this point-- atleast to me Aayton is clearly a 1 pick. Hey there was 1 Point I had him 5 didn't think he played hard but he's just gotten better and to me it's not a question anymore

I see Greg Oden with a good jump shot in Ayton, which is good potential. However, his defense is worse due to average awareness and poor reaction time (often doesn't get off his feet fast enough, despite his vertical leap, to contest effectively at the rim). His mobility is good for his size but he will be an NBA pick and roll liability because he can't guard the ball handler beyond a certain radius (~17 feet) from the rim.

His college dominance excessively leverages his strength, which I think will be less of a factor in the NBA. If he can effectively shoot from NBA 3 with some space, it will help make more efficient his team's overall offense, but I don't think he can initiate from that far out of the perimeter. He has average shiftiness in the post and face-up. His value really derives from being paired with an elite point guard and operating in pick and pop.

Bottom line is I see a guy who can be a good starter, and even an all-star, but not someone who is franchise altering by himself.

Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
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TripleThreat
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3/11/2018  8:57 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Terrible position. One of the chances will come soon. Maybe the Gods will give us pick #1 and we do get Aayton. Id build around him with vets and do what I could to unleash mega cap space including trading KP. So there is our 2% chance.


There are only three instances in the modern era where a free agent has changed the outright trajectory of the franchise

Shaq to LA
LBJ to Miami
Nash to the Suns

Durant doesn't factor as the Warriors were already a pure contender before he signed with them. Many other instances were technically trades (Harden to the Rockets)

In the modern era, how often has mass clearing of cap space worked out for teams? Short answer, it hasn't.

Actual effective resource management is CAP FLEXIBILITY, not RAW CAP SPACE.

Cap flexibility is having a range of contracts. People are paid to market if they are an elite player. No bad / toxic contracts WIHTOUT DESIGN . (A team renting out it's cap space for assets is different, i.e. NJ taking Mozgov for assets) A nice mix of young cost controlled players and veterans on expirings.

Trading Zinger now would be trading low on his value. He still has strong trade value, but it would be at the worst leverage position possible.

Briggs, you love the Knicks. I'll give you all the credit in the world for that. You love this game. No doubt. But you don't understand functional resource management and team building. And it's too bad, the game is so much more interesting when that part of it opens up to a fan.

"Should have paid Lin and rid ourselves of Melo. Lin makes every team better." - HofstraBBall 11/12/2018
Jmpasq
Posts: 23613
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Joined: 4/10/2012
Member: #4182

3/11/2018  9:58 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Terrible position. One of the chances will come soon. Maybe the Gods will give us pick #1 and we do get Aayton. Id build around him with vets and do what I could to unleash mega cap space including trading KP. So there is our 2% chance.


There are only three instances in the modern era where a free agent has changed the outright trajectory of the franchise

Shaq to LA
LBJ to Miami
Nash to the Suns

Durant doesn't factor as the Warriors were already a pure contender before he signed with them. Many other instances were technically trades (Harden to the Rockets)

In the modern era, how often has mass clearing of cap space worked out for teams? Short answer, it hasn't.

Actual effective resource management is CAP FLEXIBILITY, not RAW CAP SPACE.

Cap flexibility is having a range of contracts. People are paid to market if they are an elite player. No bad / toxic contracts WIHTOUT DESIGN . (A team renting out it's cap space for assets is different, i.e. NJ taking Mozgov for assets) A nice mix of young cost controlled players and veterans on expirings.

Trading Zinger now would be trading low on his value. He still has strong trade value, but it would be at the worst leverage position possible.

Briggs, you love the Knicks. I'll give you all the credit in the world for that. You love this game. No doubt. But you don't understand functional resource management and team building. And it's too bad, the game is so much more interesting when that part of it opens up to a fan.

One of the reasons why I wanted to move KP last off-season was because I was worried about making poor value decisions to appease him. I'm still afraid of that this off-season. I believe we should of made some Nets like moves last off-season instead of giving Hardaway all that money.

Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
Knicks are done for multi years

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