EnySpree wrote:It seems like we want Mudiay and Frank to start in the backcourt... I'm all for it. The potential is there to have something special.

All fine and dandy, but Tim Hardaway is not a small fwd. He's a starting 2 guard exclusively. He can't guard bigger players. He also can't be asked to attack bigger players from the perimeter... it's too much to ask of him. I like the idea of him coming off the bench but will he? It's a mess....

I think we're going to have to trade him... if we want to continue this Mudiay/Frank experiment. We could easily shift that to a Burke/THJr starting back court but tat doesn't seem like the plan. It's that's really annoying but this is where we are. We're developing players. We need to stick a real small fwd in as a starter. We also don't need to have this extra salary on the roster in preparation for 2019 free agency.

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

EnySpree wrote:It seems like we want Mudiay and Frank to start in the backcourt... I'm all for it. The potential is there to have something special.

All fine and dandy, but Tim Hardaway is not a small fwd. He's a starting 2 guard exclusively. He can't guard bigger players. He also can't be asked to attack bigger players from the perimeter... it's too much to ask of him. I like the idea of him coming off the bench but will he? It's a mess....

I think we're going to have to trade him... if we want to continue this Mudiay/Frank experiment. We could easily shift that to a Burke/THJr starting back court but tat doesn't seem like the plan. It's that's really annoying but this is where we are. We're developing players. We need to stick a real small fwd in as a starter. We also don't need to have this extra salary on the roster in preparation for 2019 free agency.

He can't guard smaller players either.

Or same sized.

He will eventually be transitioned to 6th man i think. Frank will be the starting SG at some point, i really believe that. The way the league is going, he is almost the ideal SG, especially if he improves as an open shooter. 3 and D with secondary playmaking ability.

100% on THJr being a 6th man type. No idea, still, why anyone would think Frank is or will be a SG.

His first and most prominent instinct is to pass the ball. To a fault. To a glaring, you better fix that fault. Frank does not compare to many of today's PGs as he is not explosive/score first PG ala Westbrook, Harden, Lillard, Kyrie, and so many more. But he doesn't have to be. For me, just because the league and a large % of the starting PGs are of one mold, does not disqualify Frank from being a PG.

I literally do not see SG in Frank at all. SGs usually have the mentality of wanting to score, being a gunner, running around screens, popping out. Frank doesn't do any of those things.

Didn't you just point out not all PG's fit 1 mold and than you immediately say all SG's have to fit one. Look either way just build a team where the pieces fit. If Frank is going to be the PG they better go get a SF that can score like Porter Jr. in this draft. If they want him to play SG, get a ball dominate PG and let Frank shut down the opposing teams best guard every night. To me Frank is the perfect compliment in the backcourt to Kyrie, Westbrook, Harden, and to a much lesser extent a Burke type player.

Jmpasq wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

EnySpree wrote:It seems like we want Mudiay and Frank to start in the backcourt... I'm all for it. The potential is there to have something special.

All fine and dandy, but Tim Hardaway is not a small fwd. He's a starting 2 guard exclusively. He can't guard bigger players. He also can't be asked to attack bigger players from the perimeter... it's too much to ask of him. I like the idea of him coming off the bench but will he? It's a mess....

I think we're going to have to trade him... if we want to continue this Mudiay/Frank experiment. We could easily shift that to a Burke/THJr starting back court but tat doesn't seem like the plan. It's that's really annoying but this is where we are. We're developing players. We need to stick a real small fwd in as a starter. We also don't need to have this extra salary on the roster in preparation for 2019 free agency.

He can't guard smaller players either.

Or same sized.

He will eventually be transitioned to 6th man i think. Frank will be the starting SG at some point, i really believe that. The way the league is going, he is almost the ideal SG, especially if he improves as an open shooter. 3 and D with secondary playmaking ability.

100% on THJr being a 6th man type. No idea, still, why anyone would think Frank is or will be a SG.

His first and most prominent instinct is to pass the ball. To a fault. To a glaring, you better fix that fault. Frank does not compare to many of today's PGs as he is not explosive/score first PG ala Westbrook, Harden, Lillard, Kyrie, and so many more. But he doesn't have to be. For me, just because the league and a large % of the starting PGs are of one mold, does not disqualify Frank from being a PG.

I literally do not see SG in Frank at all. SGs usually have the mentality of wanting to score, being a gunner, running around screens, popping out. Frank doesn't do any of those things.

Didn't you just point out not all PG's fit 1 mold and than you immediately say all SG's have to fit one. Look either way just build a team where the pieces fit. If Frank is going to be the PG they better go get a SF that can score like Porter Jr. in this draft. If they want him to play SG, get a ball dominate PG and let Frank shut down the opposing teams best guard every night. To me Frank is the perfect compliment in the backcourt to Kyrie, Westbrook, Harden, and to a much lesser extent a Burke type player.

I could see Frank developing into a good player in this role. Take the other players lead guard down a bit and let him shoot open 3s when he gets the chance.

doomed wrote:Mudiay won’t be a factor here long term. Hardaway will start for the foreseeable future.

Yep the Knicks are DOOMED if they keep a no-defense no-passing-skills Tim Hardaway as their future starter! Tim slills are nothing like his pops skills as a guard. Tim is a scorer not a winner.
Timmy' s a selfish player who scoring skills are not beneficial for team-balling and ball movement .. Tim can't defend SF nor could Tim defend guards.
The Knicks were crazy not to resign Holiday in the off-season.
Tim Hardaway is a career bench player just like our old inconsistent Crawful.

blkexec wrote:

blkexec wrote:Great points....I agree with...

THj can't guard SF or SG well.....
He's a gunner...needs a heavy volume of shots.....
Perfect 6 man.....
Over paid....

But as of now he's our starting 2....and if Frank plays better next to a gunner? Then THj and Frank is the future starting back court....

I think they brought in Mudiay to test him and the 2 PG system JH likes....Plus gives Frank a healthy competition and mentor.

I say it's too early to label anybody....but I'll admit it's fun and addictive...But JH needs to put a system in place that fits the talent ...

Frank can be a successful starter in the NBA as a Guard and later a SF. But it depends on the right system....Like Eric Snow and Iverson.

I think Gary Harris was a good comparison to frank.....someone who was a pg in college....now a 3 D type guard /pg.....I think he has a career in so many directions right now.....its foolish to pick one. Right now he's a coaches dream and he's smart and likeable. all important traits in a rookie...

Williams another great sign.....Nice move Perry

Williams
Burke
Mudiay
Kornet (sp?)
Dotson

This is called a rebuild in a NY minute....

Now all Perry needs is a franchise player from the draft.....and another potential franchise free agent the following year.....I finally trust this management now. So far I have little complaints....Maybe THj....but he's still growing into his contract in my opinion.

If it was only that simple.

Perry recommends move that mills should make, he is not making any moves on his own.

THJ is one of the few guys on the team that shoots the ball, lance and frank ain't shooting, he's also one of the only reason we get the few FT attempts the team takes. yes..He is a very streaky shooter, most scorers are volume shooters.

If he had other really good players on the team who could score, he wouldn't feel so obligated to have to pick up the slack. He's defense was getting better playing with ATL, but since he came back to this culture..guess what?

Paris907 wrote:Mgt is trying yet THJr is such an inconsistent shooter,
That he is far from your ideal 6th man where defenses lapses are not highlighted if you can score double digits off the bench. Tim isn’t a heady ball player either. The Troy Williams signing may play into this and make Tim expendable- if not this year then next - and what Off another 6-7” 3 and D named Mikel Bridges. If he’s secured the. You’ve : Lance,Lee, THJr, Troy and Bridges all seeking playin time at the 3. Something’s gotta give.

Lee will be moved this offseason i'm sure. Lance is more of a fringe role player. Williams has been nice, but not sure yet if he's a true rotation player. Adding Bridges still would only leave us 1 legit rotation caliber SF. Hardaway will be fine. He's a streak scorer but as we add talent his role will be better than it is now. We saw what he could do as a 2nd option to KP. Would be great to eventually move him to our 3rd scorer or 6th man, and i think he will be a better player for it.

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Paris907 wrote:Mgt is trying yet THJr is such an inconsistent shooter,
That he is far from your ideal 6th man where defenses lapses are not highlighted if you can score double digits off the bench. Tim isn’t a heady ball player either. The Troy Williams signing may play into this and make Tim expendable- if not this year then next - and what Off another 6-7” 3 and D named Mikel Bridges. If he’s secured the. You’ve : Lance,Lee, THJr, Troy and Bridges all seeking playin time at the 3. Something’s gotta give.

Lee will be moved this offseason i'm sure. Lance is more of a fringe role player. Williams has been nice, but not sure yet if he's a true rotation player. Adding Bridges still would only leave us 1 legit rotation caliber SF. Hardaway will be fine. He's a streak scorer but as we add talent his role will be better than it is now. We saw what he could do as a 2nd option to KP. Would be great to eventually move him to our 3rd scorer or 6th man, and i think he will be a better player for it.

for who? I think Lee is a Knick until his contract is up. But we can see what happens.

As for the THJr "problem" what is that again? He had career highs in pts/rebs/ass/stl per 36. He's shot the 3 very poorly. His worst ever. Can that be improved on? One would think. If TH has the same year next year but healthy and shoots his career 3pt% we are just fine. He may not be Klay Thompson but he's not a problem either.

I agree, Hardaway is absolutely not the problem. As for Lee, i see him being moved to a playoff team in the offseason for a player on an expiring contract. Lee is a useful player for a playoff team. Most of them can use a 3&D wing. I will give you a few examples:

Lee to Minn for Aldrich and a future 2nd round pick.
Lee to Indiana for Al Jefferson and a future 2nd round pick.
Lee to Denver for Faried and a future 2nd round pick.

I am pretty sure Perry will want to move that contract to increase 2019 cap space even if the return is minimal. Perry used Willy to get a couple of 2nd round picks. No doubt he wants to add to that cupboard.

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Paris907 wrote:Mgt is trying yet THJr is such an inconsistent shooter,
That he is far from your ideal 6th man where defenses lapses are not highlighted if you can score double digits off the bench. Tim isn’t a heady ball player either. The Troy Williams signing may play into this and make Tim expendable- if not this year then next - and what Off another 6-7” 3 and D named Mikel Bridges. If he’s secured the. You’ve : Lance,Lee, THJr, Troy and Bridges all seeking playin time at the 3. Something’s gotta give.

Lee will be moved this offseason i'm sure. Lance is more of a fringe role player. Williams has been nice, but not sure yet if he's a true rotation player. Adding Bridges still would only leave us 1 legit rotation caliber SF. Hardaway will be fine. He's a streak scorer but as we add talent his role will be better than it is now. We saw what he could do as a 2nd option to KP. Would be great to eventually move him to our 3rd scorer or 6th man, and i think he will be a better player for it.

for who? I think Lee is a Knick until his contract is up. But we can see what happens.

As for the THJr "problem" what is that again? He had career highs in pts/rebs/ass/stl per 36. He's shot the 3 very poorly. His worst ever. Can that be improved on? One would think. If TH has the same year next year but healthy and shoots his career 3pt% we are just fine. He may not be Klay Thompson but he's not a problem either.

I agree, Hardaway is absolutely not the problem. As for Lee, i see him being moved to a playoff team in the offseason for a player on an expiring contract. Lee is a useful player for a playoff team. Most of them can use a 3&D wing. I will give you a few examples:

Lee to Minn for Aldrich and a future 2nd round pick.
Lee to Indiana for Al Jefferson and a future 2nd round pick.
Lee to Denver for Faried and a future 2nd round pick.

I am pretty sure Perry will want to move that contract to increase 2019 cap space even if the return is minimal. Perry used Willy to get a couple of 2nd round picks. No doubt he wants to add to that cupboard.

I would say that the coaching staff LOVE Lee, he is their mouthpiece to the team and media. I'd guess that they would move Lee this summer if they could but wouldn't mind holding on to him throughout the 2018-19 season and see how things go and hope to god he plays as well as this past year.

Whats interesting is Lee was a role player for most of his career (I believe). Hardaway's game is suited for a 6th man role. I would love to bring them both back next season. My question is who's starting? If both are starting, then we will suffer on defense somewhere. Unless Hardaway turns into a PG, I don't see much success with them starting together. Both are hot and cold gunners / scorers. Lee's days as a lockdown defender is dwindling with age. I think we need a player like Williams, who's long enough to guard a SG or SF, while allowing the gunners to play their normal position and have more energy on offense. Williams is not ready to be thrown in the starting lineup, but he gives us an idea of what a SF should do. He's stronger and longer than both. This should give us insight into how a legit SF type player can impact this team vs using a PG / SG / SG lineup.

Hardaway is a SG that played a little PG....But if we have to rely on him as a scorer, I don't want him wasting energy guarding bigger guys and trying to score on bigger guys. That's wear and tear, and will eventually make his scoring even more up and down.