Sangfroid wrote:

Nalod wrote:Rozier was developed. We need to grow our own "Roziers".
If there is glitch in Mudiay's game and knicks think it can be fixed then there is little harm.
Just because mudiay is NOT (Good)(Smart)does not mean he never will be.
He is bloody awful now. Im not a pro scout/coach and know enough to either blow him off or understand what can be fixed.
But I have seen it happen.

Mudiay just doesn't have high BBIQ

nyk4ever wrote:

VCoug wrote:

martin wrote:

VCoug wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

VCoug wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

VCoug wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

colorfl1 wrote:Mudiay is woefully out of shape. I wouldn't make a judgment on anything he does this stretch.
Give him an off-season to get in game shape and work on the hitch in his shot, he will surprise you.

The guy at the YMCA is woefully out of shape but he can still F shoot it. The guy cant shoot a basketball--BIG problem. How many years has Mudiay been in this league now---that hitch is going nowhere. I want to root for the guy but hes not going places.

He's definately unprofessional in his polish but it's annoying how you go straight to bust of a trade when we got him for McDermott...Derm was supposed to be a shooter and he was terrible too.

Mudiay has had his share of good games and plays so far. If you expect him to be a world beater today then you will be disappointed. He does have a good base to work with, so he can get better. His ceiling is still very high. He's got work to doo just like the rest of our young guards

Mudiay definitely hasn't had his share of good games, he's been possibly the worst player on the team. And what good base does he have? He doesn't do anything well.

That's exaggerated... dudes had a 14 and 10 game so spare me that bull****. Frank has been horrible for 60 games.

Regardless it's not about that but I'm not gonna stand for one guy getting bashed and another guy getting the benifit of doubt when they are in the same boat.

Lol, Frank's been horrible for 60 games? Sure, he has but he's shown good defense and court vision though I definitely have my doubts about his future. Mudiay's been horrible for 174 games and hasn't shown anything good at all.

Guys who just look at stats might say Frank has been horrible, but he has shown promise as a defender and open shooter. He has a long ways to go, but his floor is still an NBA role player. I expect him to grow into a starting caliber player based on what he has shown so far this year, especially on defense. Mudiay has been bad on both ends of the floor, leading me to believe that he may fall out of the rotation next year, especially if we add another guard via draft or free agency.

You can't just ignore stats though. You might like the way he looks shooting but he's a bad shooter, even in free throws. I'm hoping he can develop into late career Kidd but there's a long way to go before that happens.

He's shooting over 70% from free throw line. And compare his rookie shooting to other rookies. He's shooting the 3pt around the same as Porzingis did as a rookie. It's easy to see that his jumpshot will improve. He has the form and release. He seems to have work ethic. The concern with him is his aggressiveness and quickness on the offensive end. But he has shown enough to let me know he will be at least a strong role player very soon.

I didn't realize he was finally over 70% (still not a great number), last I had checked he was under. I looked up his FT%, eFG%, and TS% compared to other rookies over the past 40 years, it's not good. And here's the same list for FT%, 2P%, and 3P%: link. ALso, not good. Coincidentally, do you want to guess who is also on both lists?

So let's ignore the fact that Mudiay started 66 games that season and Frank has started 1. Plus Mudiay played a solid 10 minutes/game more than Frank on average. But yeah other than that they are comparable.

Does any of that change the fact that Ntilikina is having an historically bad year shooting the ball even for a rookie?

He isn't though.

Is he shooting very poorly? Yes. Very poorly for a rookie? Yes.

Is he shooting poorly in the context of many other all-stars and HOF players who shot just about the same percentages got better and turned into really good shooters? No.

I can't find any All-Star or HOF players who shot as poorly as Ntilikina has; at least none that aren't big men. I do players that improved their shooting but none of them are what I would call really good shooters.

apparently you didn't really look that hard.

chauncey billups: 37%
jason kidd: 38.5%
kemba walker: 36%
russell westbrook: 39%

and honestly thats just off the top of my head.

BUSTED! To the pit of misery with VCoug! Dilly dilly!

VCoug wrote:

martin wrote:

VCoug wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

VCoug wrote:

martin wrote:

VCoug wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

VCoug wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

VCoug wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

colorfl1 wrote:Mudiay is woefully out of shape. I wouldn't make a judgment on anything he does this stretch.
Give him an off-season to get in game shape and work on the hitch in his shot, he will surprise you.

The guy at the YMCA is woefully out of shape but he can still F shoot it. The guy cant shoot a basketball--BIG problem. How many years has Mudiay been in this league now---that hitch is going nowhere. I want to root for the guy but hes not going places.

He's definately unprofessional in his polish but it's annoying how you go straight to bust of a trade when we got him for McDermott...Derm was supposed to be a shooter and he was terrible too.

Mudiay has had his share of good games and plays so far. If you expect him to be a world beater today then you will be disappointed. He does have a good base to work with, so he can get better. His ceiling is still very high. He's got work to doo just like the rest of our young guards

Mudiay definitely hasn't had his share of good games, he's been possibly the worst player on the team. And what good base does he have? He doesn't do anything well.

That's exaggerated... dudes had a 14 and 10 game so spare me that bull****. Frank has been horrible for 60 games.

Regardless it's not about that but I'm not gonna stand for one guy getting bashed and another guy getting the benifit of doubt when they are in the same boat.

Lol, Frank's been horrible for 60 games? Sure, he has but he's shown good defense and court vision though I definitely have my doubts about his future. Mudiay's been horrible for 174 games and hasn't shown anything good at all.

Guys who just look at stats might say Frank has been horrible, but he has shown promise as a defender and open shooter. He has a long ways to go, but his floor is still an NBA role player. I expect him to grow into a starting caliber player based on what he has shown so far this year, especially on defense. Mudiay has been bad on both ends of the floor, leading me to believe that he may fall out of the rotation next year, especially if we add another guard via draft or free agency.

You can't just ignore stats though. You might like the way he looks shooting but he's a bad shooter, even in free throws. I'm hoping he can develop into late career Kidd but there's a long way to go before that happens.

He's shooting over 70% from free throw line. And compare his rookie shooting to other rookies. He's shooting the 3pt around the same as Porzingis did as a rookie. It's easy to see that his jumpshot will improve. He has the form and release. He seems to have work ethic. The concern with him is his aggressiveness and quickness on the offensive end. But he has shown enough to let me know he will be at least a strong role player very soon.

I didn't realize he was finally over 70% (still not a great number), last I had checked he was under. I looked up his FT%, eFG%, and TS% compared to other rookies over the past 40 years, it's not good. And here's the same list for FT%, 2P%, and 3P%: link. ALso, not good. Coincidentally, do you want to guess who is also on both lists?

So let's ignore the fact that Mudiay started 66 games that season and Frank has started 1. Plus Mudiay played a solid 10 minutes/game more than Frank on average. But yeah other than that they are comparable.

Does any of that change the fact that Ntilikina is having an historically bad year shooting the ball even for a rookie?

He isn't though.

Is he shooting very poorly? Yes. Very poorly for a rookie? Yes.

Is he shooting poorly in the context of many other all-stars and HOF players who shot just about the same percentages got better and turned into really good shooters? No.

I can't find any All-Star or HOF players who shot as poorly as Ntilikina has; at least none that aren't big men. I do players that improved their shooting but none of them are what I would call really good shooters.

Hornacek talked about his own career the other day...

Horny entered the league at 23! His first 3 years of shooting from 3... 28%, 29%, 33%. His first year over 40% was when he was 26 years old! He ended up with a career 40% from distance.

You can reach your own conclusions.

Hornacek also had a TS% 90 points higher, and eFG% 70 points higher, and a 2P% 100 points higher than Ntilikina's.

I dont even understand what these mean. Could you lay the numbers side by side for us? Don't even know what you are comparing and what 90 points higher means

All numbers are from their rookie year. I've also included several foreign-born players who struggled through their own growing pains when they first got to the NBA plus Mudiay for ****s and giggles.

Player        eFG%     TS%
Ntilikina    .405     .432
Hornaces     .471     .526
Kidd         .426     .471
Billups      .445     .516
Kemba        .411     .464
Westbrook    .414     .489
Nowitzki     .426     .491
Tony Parker  .467     .497
Giannis      .463     .518
Mudiay       .404     .437

I'm not saying that Ntilikina can't/won't improve and is a bust. I am saying that he is a long, long way away from being a rotational player in the NBA. Even Mudiay, who scarily has the most similar shooting numbers to Ntilikina, has improved over his short career. The problem is Ntilikina's shooting numbers are so bad he's got a long way to just to get to average let alone good.

Yup, he’s right there with several HOF players that came from NCAA. I see nothing here of any concern whatsoever. Dilly dilly!

knicks1248 wrote:I hear guys talk about franks shooting will improve, how the hell can you improve your shooting if you don't shoot "a lot"

There were countless footage of frank practicing his shooting over the summer with the knicks coaching staff, and his shooting % was actually slightly better last season playing less minutes.

then when i hear some say he's starting to make the open shot, then look up to see his shooting 28% for the month of march, worse of the season.

He's 2nd in minutes on the team since he got the start, and he is struggling even more

Your having a good day!

Sangfroid wrote:

Nalod wrote:Rozier was developed. We need to grow our own "Roziers".
If there is glitch in Mudiay's game and knicks think it can be fixed then there is little harm.
Just because mudiay is NOT (Good)(Smart)does not mean he never will be.
He is bloody awful now. Im not a pro scout/coach and know enough to either blow him off or understand what can be fixed.
But I have seen it happen.

Mudiay just doesn't have high BBIQ

The entire roster is filled with low IQ players, along with the coaching staff and president..Do you see any high IQ basket ball moves from anybody in this organization?

Cartman718 wrote:For the love of God...he's not 27 that he cannot change his game or adapt or grow leaner and even stronger.
His age is the best thing going for him. If he has the work ethic of the Latvian...he will succeed.

Hold comment until next season when he's given an actual chance.

A player getting better is not just an individual thing. There so much more that goes into it like system, roster, culture, season goals.

You could put a very talented player in a fcked up situation, and all of a sudden he looks like a very bad player.

knicks1248 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:For the love of God...he's not 27 that he cannot change his game or adapt or grow leaner and even stronger.
His age is the best thing going for him. If he has the work ethic of the Latvian...he will succeed.

Hold comment until next season when he's given an actual chance.

A player getting better is not just an individual thing. There so much more that goes into it like system, roster, culture, season goals.

You could put a very talented player in a fcked up situation, and all of a sudden he looks like a very bad player.

Knixkik wrote:NBA Math
✔
@NBA_Math
#StiZZatZ from latest @HardwoodKnocks, "Jrue Holiday is an Underrated Defender" edition

Top PnR Ball-Handler Defenders by PPP (min 150poss):
1. Frank Ntilikina: 0.66
2. Chris Paul: 0.69
3. Victor Oladipo: 0.69
4. Jrue Holiday: 0.70
5. Jaylen Brown: 0.71http://bit.ly/hwkx143

11:30 AM - Mar 12, 2018

Another stat showing Frank's value on defense. Considering he is only a rookie, it's incredible. His offense needs to come along, but his floor as a lock-down defensive role player is set. He contributes more as a rookie than Smith and Fox at this point. Simple stats don't show the whole story, which hurts his perception to those just looking at the basic stuff.

Thats our teenage rookie!!!!!! Phuch the Hate!!!!