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My God Mudiay is awful
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Chandler
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3/7/2018  10:09 AM
being out of shape is only part of the issue and an awful excuse, because (a) that's on him and (b) he's playing against guys who are dinged up and he should be fresh

He's not only playing bad, he's playing dumb. Takes very bad shots. Dribbles into double teams and double down on dumb with off balance turnaround jumpers (he's not good enough for that)

He can get to the rim but then doesn't know what to do when he gets there. With his size he needs to attack it, not just get to it. Draw some fouls etc

Good news if any is price was low. If I were calling the shots he'd be on the pine right now. Let Burke or Frank start for a bit

bad news is not just Mudiay; it's whether this is emblematic of a front office without an eye for talent. Mixed reactions and hoping they choose wisely come draft

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Knixkik
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3/7/2018  10:14 AM
VCoug wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Knixkik wrote:It was a good gamble, but you're right, he's looking really bad.

Im still not sure about cost--did we give up a 2? and what did we get for Willy again?

We swapped 2nd round picks which might cost us a few spots. Not really a concern though. We basically gave up nothing.

We didn't swap 2nd, we gave one up: http://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/Search/SearchResults.php?Player=Mudiay&Team=&BeginDate=2018-02-08&EndDate=2018-02-08&PlayerMovementChkBx=yes&Submit=Search

Not like it's a disaster of a trade but it wasn't a good one.


Didn't we receive back the Portland 2nd round pick? Don't we still have 2 second round picks this year?
Rookie
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3/7/2018  10:23 AM
Chandler wrote:being out of shape is only part of the issue and an awful excuse, because (a) that's on him and (b) he's playing against guys who are dinged up and he should be fresh

He's not only playing bad, he's playing dumb. Takes very bad shots. Dribbles into double teams and double down on dumb with off balance turnaround jumpers (he's not good enough for that)

He can get to the rim but then doesn't know what to do when he gets there. With his size he needs to attack it, not just get to it. Draw some fouls etc

Good news if any is price was low. If I were calling the shots he'd be on the pine right now. Let Burke or Frank start for a bit

bad news is not just Mudiay; it's whether this is emblematic of a front office without an eye for talent. Mixed reactions and hoping they choose wisely come draft

He looks like he is always going to fall down. Maybe he needs some yoga or whatever helps to develop good balance. Sounds corny yeah, but dude can't even make a layup without falling down.

GustavBahler
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3/7/2018  10:26 AM
A second round pick for Mudiay only sounds questionable when you hear it was also the same asking price for Elfrid Peyton. I preferred Peyton over Mudiay, not sure what scared Perry off considering Peyton was showing more at the time of the deal.

Burke is our best PG right now. Have to either draft a future starter, or acquire one another way.

Nalod
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3/7/2018  10:49 AM
GustavBahler wrote:A second round pick for Mudiay only sounds questionable when you hear it was also the same asking price for Elfrid Peyton. I preferred Peyton over Mudiay, not sure what scared Perry off considering Peyton was showing more at the time of the deal.

Burke is our best PG right now. Have to either draft a future starter, or acquire one another way.

Payton is the better player now. A few years older and perhaps at his ceiling.
Then there is paytons pending free agency vs. Mudiay who has another year on his rookie deal.
Apparently we did give up the lessor of ours vs. Clippers 2nd. I think we still have two 2nd picks left?
What is the thought process? I'll guess, its Denver dumped mundiay and it was with merit. You can see this kid is a physically gifted but has not improved much in three years to the level of play he was thought to posess.
Perry Knows payton better than any of us. He is better than Burke as well.
But one has to assume that it makes sense for us to cultivate potential and discount prices matter. One has to assume that Payton might be a starter but can we raise that bar, and if so, take chances. Role players can be signed. In fact, if we love payton we can just sign him if Sun's go cheap on him this summer.
Mudiay reminds me a bit of Demarr DeRozen before he put it together.
Lets not fool ourselves, Denver gave up on him for a reason. Sometimes players are able to get back on track to expectations but the odds are not there at this time.
Again: we are creating opportunities!
Mudiay looked manic out there lst night.
I was greatful the sandman took me nigh-nigh by the end of the third quarter.
From what I saw Timmy looked good and Frank hit two nice shots. Clyde is not holding back too much and Breen wants clyde to talk to him! Gee, I wonder where some of you get your ideas from?
Manny shots were just a clankin'. He is no doubt pressing and knows his career is slipping away in the NBA.
Since we all know whats best: "He needs to take his shot apart this summer and watch film of H20 and others with a coach and nail it. If he is not able to do this in games then he needs to get it done in the Gleague. This will open up his penetration game nicely. He has elite explosion to penetrate to the rim.
I think his turnovers will decrease once we have a set roster and rotation. Right now its a lot of audition time.
Why Not frank to the Gleague too? Frank is doing some very nice things at this level and part of his development is he learn the speed and power of the NBA.
Manny needs fundamentals in his shot. I don't see frank as having this problem. there is enough tape of him in Europe shooting long ball with success. Its the speed of the NBA game that has to slow down for him.

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EnySpree
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3/7/2018  11:08 AM
VCoug wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
colorfl1 wrote:Mudiay is woefully out of shape. I wouldn't make a judgment on anything he does this stretch.
Give him an off-season to get in game shape and work on the hitch in his shot, he will surprise you.

The guy at the YMCA is woefully out of shape but he can still F shoot it. The guy cant shoot a basketball--BIG problem. How many years has Mudiay been in this league now---that hitch is going nowhere. I want to root for the guy but hes not going places.

He's definately unprofessional in his polish but it's annoying how you go straight to bust of a trade when we got him for McDermott...Derm was supposed to be a shooter and he was terrible too.

Mudiay has had his share of good games and plays so far. If you expect him to be a world beater today then you will be disappointed. He does have a good base to work with, so he can get better. His ceiling is still very high. He's got work to doo just like the rest of our young guards

Mudiay definitely hasn't had his share of good games, he's been possibly the worst player on the team. And what good base does he have? He doesn't do anything well.

That's exaggerated... dudes had a 14 and 10 game so spare me that bull****. Frank has been horrible for 60 games.

Regardless it's not about that but I'm not gonna stand for one guy getting bashed and another guy getting the benifit of doubt when they are in the same boat.

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martin
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3/7/2018  12:06 PM
EnySpree wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
colorfl1 wrote:Mudiay is woefully out of shape. I wouldn't make a judgment on anything he does this stretch.
Give him an off-season to get in game shape and work on the hitch in his shot, he will surprise you.

The guy at the YMCA is woefully out of shape but he can still F shoot it. The guy cant shoot a basketball--BIG problem. How many years has Mudiay been in this league now---that hitch is going nowhere. I want to root for the guy but hes not going places.

He's definately unprofessional in his polish but it's annoying how you go straight to bust of a trade when we got him for McDermott...Derm was supposed to be a shooter and he was terrible too.

Mudiay has had his share of good games and plays so far. If you expect him to be a world beater today then you will be disappointed. He does have a good base to work with, so he can get better. His ceiling is still very high. He's got work to doo just like the rest of our young guards

I don't see his potential.

Passing, penetrating, running offense, shooting, finishing at rim, making decisions with ball, defense. Young guys with potential will show flashes of both good and bad.

I think Mudiay had 1 game of hot shooting (I don't consider that potential) and a whole ton of bad.

What do you see that would let you know that this kid as something that is untapped and just needs more work/playing time?

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martin
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3/7/2018  12:11 PM
EnySpree wrote:
VCoug wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
colorfl1 wrote:Mudiay is woefully out of shape. I wouldn't make a judgment on anything he does this stretch.
Give him an off-season to get in game shape and work on the hitch in his shot, he will surprise you.

The guy at the YMCA is woefully out of shape but he can still F shoot it. The guy cant shoot a basketball--BIG problem. How many years has Mudiay been in this league now---that hitch is going nowhere. I want to root for the guy but hes not going places.

He's definately unprofessional in his polish but it's annoying how you go straight to bust of a trade when we got him for McDermott...Derm was supposed to be a shooter and he was terrible too.

Mudiay has had his share of good games and plays so far. If you expect him to be a world beater today then you will be disappointed. He does have a good base to work with, so he can get better. His ceiling is still very high. He's got work to doo just like the rest of our young guards

Mudiay definitely hasn't had his share of good games, he's been possibly the worst player on the team. And what good base does he have? He doesn't do anything well.

That's exaggerated... dudes had a 14 and 10 game so spare me that bull****. Frank has been horrible for 60 games.

Regardless it's not about that but I'm not gonna stand for one guy getting bashed and another guy getting the benifit of doubt when they are in the same boat.

Frank hasn't been good this year but Eny you lose all respect of anyone reading your posts if all you can come up with is that Frank has been horrible for his entire career. Because it's flat nonsense.

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VCoug
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3/7/2018  12:14 PM
Knixkik wrote:
VCoug wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Knixkik wrote:It was a good gamble, but you're right, he's looking really bad.

Im still not sure about cost--did we give up a 2? and what did we get for Willy again?

We swapped 2nd round picks which might cost us a few spots. Not really a concern though. We basically gave up nothing.

We didn't swap 2nd, we gave one up: http://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/Search/SearchResults.php?Player=Mudiay&Team=&BeginDate=2018-02-08&EndDate=2018-02-08&PlayerMovementChkBx=yes&Submit=Search

Not like it's a disaster of a trade but it wasn't a good one.


Didn't we receive back the Portland 2nd round pick? Don't we still have 2 second round picks this year?

Not as far as I can tell. It was originally reported to be a pick swap but the reports changed afterwards were that we gave up a pick. Like I said, not a disaster of the trade just a regular old bad one.

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VCoug
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3/7/2018  12:19 PM
EnySpree wrote:
VCoug wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
colorfl1 wrote:Mudiay is woefully out of shape. I wouldn't make a judgment on anything he does this stretch.
Give him an off-season to get in game shape and work on the hitch in his shot, he will surprise you.

The guy at the YMCA is woefully out of shape but he can still F shoot it. The guy cant shoot a basketball--BIG problem. How many years has Mudiay been in this league now---that hitch is going nowhere. I want to root for the guy but hes not going places.

He's definately unprofessional in his polish but it's annoying how you go straight to bust of a trade when we got him for McDermott...Derm was supposed to be a shooter and he was terrible too.

Mudiay has had his share of good games and plays so far. If you expect him to be a world beater today then you will be disappointed. He does have a good base to work with, so he can get better. His ceiling is still very high. He's got work to doo just like the rest of our young guards

Mudiay definitely hasn't had his share of good games, he's been possibly the worst player on the team. And what good base does he have? He doesn't do anything well.

That's exaggerated... dudes had a 14 and 10 game so spare me that bull****. Frank has been horrible for 60 games.

Regardless it's not about that but I'm not gonna stand for one guy getting bashed and another guy getting the benifit of doubt when they are in the same boat.

Lol, Frank's been horrible for 60 games? Sure, he has but he's shown good defense and court vision though I definitely have my doubts about his future. Mudiay's been horrible for 174 games and hasn't shown anything good at all.

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knicks1248
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3/7/2018  12:47 PM
He's a selfish player, he looks for first shot available instead of the best shot available.and his flat line drive bricks are hard to watch. The careless passes that lead to TO'S is why he was benched in Denver
ES
Knixkik
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3/7/2018  12:58 PM
VCoug wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
VCoug wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
colorfl1 wrote:Mudiay is woefully out of shape. I wouldn't make a judgment on anything he does this stretch.
Give him an off-season to get in game shape and work on the hitch in his shot, he will surprise you.

The guy at the YMCA is woefully out of shape but he can still F shoot it. The guy cant shoot a basketball--BIG problem. How many years has Mudiay been in this league now---that hitch is going nowhere. I want to root for the guy but hes not going places.

He's definately unprofessional in his polish but it's annoying how you go straight to bust of a trade when we got him for McDermott...Derm was supposed to be a shooter and he was terrible too.

Mudiay has had his share of good games and plays so far. If you expect him to be a world beater today then you will be disappointed. He does have a good base to work with, so he can get better. His ceiling is still very high. He's got work to doo just like the rest of our young guards

Mudiay definitely hasn't had his share of good games, he's been possibly the worst player on the team. And what good base does he have? He doesn't do anything well.

That's exaggerated... dudes had a 14 and 10 game so spare me that bull****. Frank has been horrible for 60 games.

Regardless it's not about that but I'm not gonna stand for one guy getting bashed and another guy getting the benifit of doubt when they are in the same boat.

Lol, Frank's been horrible for 60 games? Sure, he has but he's shown good defense and court vision though I definitely have my doubts about his future. Mudiay's been horrible for 174 games and hasn't shown anything good at all.

Guys who just look at stats might say Frank has been horrible, but he has shown promise as a defender and open shooter. He has a long ways to go, but his floor is still an NBA role player. I expect him to grow into a starting caliber player based on what he has shown so far this year, especially on defense. Mudiay has been bad on both ends of the floor, leading me to believe that he may fall out of the rotation next year, especially if we add another guard via draft or free agency.

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3/7/2018  1:20 PM
Mudiay was coming off the bench.....on backup minutes. He's now playing starter minutes...he was bad b4 which is why he went to the bench....Give him an off season to get in shape and we should see a difference.. His jumper may still be a work in progress....But speaking from a shooter.....if u don't have good leg strength.....then your shot will drop off during the season. It was and still is a good cheap gamble by Perry....

Protecting the young Frank from fans like Briggs who changes their mind like the weather. Mudiay is a beat up toy for fans to complain and take their frustration out. Which is a cover for frank until hr develops.

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martin
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3/7/2018  1:22 PM
blkexec wrote:Mudiay was coming off the bench.....on backup minutes. He's now playing starter minutes...he was bad b4 which is why he went to the bench....Give him an off season to get in shape and we should see a difference.. His jumper may still be a work in progress....But speaking from a shooter.....if u don't have good leg strength.....then your shot will drop off during the season. It was and still is a good cheap gamble by Perry....

Protecting the young Frank from fans like Briggs who changes their mind like the weather. Mudiay is a beat up toy for fans to complain and take their frustration out. Which is a cover for frank until hr develops.

and that's you being generous on the change timeline

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KNICKSBIGCATS
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3/7/2018  1:32 PM
Call Danny Ainge about Terry Rozier.
He's significantly better than anything the Knicks got.
Offer O'quinn, cash, and the 2018 Chicago 2nd rounder.
"Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships." -Michael Jordan
martin
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3/7/2018  1:41 PM
KNICKSBIGCATS wrote:Call Danny Ainge about Terry Rozier.
He's significantly better than anything the Knicks got.
Offer O'quinn, cash, and the 2018 Chicago 2nd rounder.

KOQ isn't tradeable.

Knicks will most likely have Frank, Trey, Mudiay on the roster next year and you want another PG type?

How does this even come close to making sense?

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VCoug
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3/7/2018  2:16 PM
Knixkik wrote:
VCoug wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
VCoug wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
colorfl1 wrote:Mudiay is woefully out of shape. I wouldn't make a judgment on anything he does this stretch.
Give him an off-season to get in game shape and work on the hitch in his shot, he will surprise you.

The guy at the YMCA is woefully out of shape but he can still F shoot it. The guy cant shoot a basketball--BIG problem. How many years has Mudiay been in this league now---that hitch is going nowhere. I want to root for the guy but hes not going places.

He's definately unprofessional in his polish but it's annoying how you go straight to bust of a trade when we got him for McDermott...Derm was supposed to be a shooter and he was terrible too.

Mudiay has had his share of good games and plays so far. If you expect him to be a world beater today then you will be disappointed. He does have a good base to work with, so he can get better. His ceiling is still very high. He's got work to doo just like the rest of our young guards

Mudiay definitely hasn't had his share of good games, he's been possibly the worst player on the team. And what good base does he have? He doesn't do anything well.

That's exaggerated... dudes had a 14 and 10 game so spare me that bull****. Frank has been horrible for 60 games.

Regardless it's not about that but I'm not gonna stand for one guy getting bashed and another guy getting the benifit of doubt when they are in the same boat.

Lol, Frank's been horrible for 60 games? Sure, he has but he's shown good defense and court vision though I definitely have my doubts about his future. Mudiay's been horrible for 174 games and hasn't shown anything good at all.

Guys who just look at stats might say Frank has been horrible, but he has shown promise as a defender and open shooter. He has a long ways to go, but his floor is still an NBA role player. I expect him to grow into a starting caliber player based on what he has shown so far this year, especially on defense. Mudiay has been bad on both ends of the floor, leading me to believe that he may fall out of the rotation next year, especially if we add another guard via draft or free agency.

You can't just ignore stats though. You might like the way he looks shooting but he's a bad shooter, even in free throws. I'm hoping he can develop into late career Kidd but there's a long way to go before that happens.

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VCoug
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3/7/2018  2:19 PM
blkexec wrote:Mudiay was coming off the bench.....on backup minutes. He's now playing starter minutes...he was bad b4 which is why he went to the bench....Give him an off season to get in shape and we should see a difference.. His jumper may still be a work in progress....But speaking from a shooter.....if u don't have good leg strength.....then your shot will drop off during the season. It was and still is a good cheap gamble by Perry....

Protecting the young Frank from fans like Briggs who changes their mind like the weather. Mudiay is a beat up toy for fans to complain and take their frustration out. Which is a cover for frank until hr develops.

He was coming off the bench this season but he's started 113 of the 173 games he's played in. And I don't see why increasing his minutes will improve his play especially when he's averaged 25 mpg.

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Knixkik
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3/7/2018  2:56 PM
VCoug wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
VCoug wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
VCoug wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
colorfl1 wrote:Mudiay is woefully out of shape. I wouldn't make a judgment on anything he does this stretch.
Give him an off-season to get in game shape and work on the hitch in his shot, he will surprise you.

The guy at the YMCA is woefully out of shape but he can still F shoot it. The guy cant shoot a basketball--BIG problem. How many years has Mudiay been in this league now---that hitch is going nowhere. I want to root for the guy but hes not going places.

He's definately unprofessional in his polish but it's annoying how you go straight to bust of a trade when we got him for McDermott...Derm was supposed to be a shooter and he was terrible too.

Mudiay has had his share of good games and plays so far. If you expect him to be a world beater today then you will be disappointed. He does have a good base to work with, so he can get better. His ceiling is still very high. He's got work to doo just like the rest of our young guards

Mudiay definitely hasn't had his share of good games, he's been possibly the worst player on the team. And what good base does he have? He doesn't do anything well.

That's exaggerated... dudes had a 14 and 10 game so spare me that bull****. Frank has been horrible for 60 games.

Regardless it's not about that but I'm not gonna stand for one guy getting bashed and another guy getting the benifit of doubt when they are in the same boat.

Lol, Frank's been horrible for 60 games? Sure, he has but he's shown good defense and court vision though I definitely have my doubts about his future. Mudiay's been horrible for 174 games and hasn't shown anything good at all.

Guys who just look at stats might say Frank has been horrible, but he has shown promise as a defender and open shooter. He has a long ways to go, but his floor is still an NBA role player. I expect him to grow into a starting caliber player based on what he has shown so far this year, especially on defense. Mudiay has been bad on both ends of the floor, leading me to believe that he may fall out of the rotation next year, especially if we add another guard via draft or free agency.

You can't just ignore stats though. You might like the way he looks shooting but he's a bad shooter, even in free throws. I'm hoping he can develop into late career Kidd but there's a long way to go before that happens.

He's shooting over 70% from free throw line. And compare his rookie shooting to other rookies. He's shooting the 3pt around the same as Porzingis did as a rookie. It's easy to see that his jumpshot will improve. He has the form and release. He seems to have work ethic. The concern with him is his aggressiveness and quickness on the offensive end. But he has shown enough to let me know he will be at least a strong role player very soon.

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3/7/2018  3:21 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/7/2018  3:22 PM
martin wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
colorfl1 wrote:Mudiay is woefully out of shape. I wouldn't make a judgment on anything he does this stretch.
Give him an off-season to get in game shape and work on the hitch in his shot, he will surprise you.

The guy at the YMCA is woefully out of shape but he can still F shoot it. The guy cant shoot a basketball--BIG problem. How many years has Mudiay been in this league now---that hitch is going nowhere. I want to root for the guy but hes not going places.

He's definately unprofessional in his polish but it's annoying how you go straight to bust of a trade when we got him for McDermott...Derm was supposed to be a shooter and he was terrible too.

Mudiay has had his share of good games and plays so far. If you expect him to be a world beater today then you will be disappointed. He does have a good base to work with, so he can get better. His ceiling is still very high. He's got work to doo just like the rest of our young guards

I don't see his potential.

Passing, penetrating, running offense, shooting, finishing at rim, making decisions with ball, defense. Young guys with potential will show flashes of both good and bad.

I think Mudiay had 1 game of hot shooting (I don't consider that potential) and a whole ton of bad.

What do you see that would let you know that this kid as something that is untapped and just needs more work/playing time?

martin, ive seen a lot of your take on frank/mudiay in various threads and i totally agree with all of it. im not sure what eny's issue with frank is? you would think the dude tried to **** his sister or something lol

from a basketball perspective, i get it, it's easy to rag on frank when you look at his stats, they look really bad to be honest (if you wanna have some fun compare his numbers to malik monk's numbers, it actually makes frank look like an all-star) but just watching frank, you see the makings of a very skillful, well-rounded basketball player. his court-vision, his defense (obviously) and as the season has wore on he's banging the open jumpers with some good consistency. he has a lot to work on, don't get me wrong. i dont want to see him as a SG, he can be game-changing PG if he can develop his penetration and ability to get to the basket, along with raising his finishing-ability. i believe i heard clyde say last night, he never lifted weights until he got to the knicks, the kid is young and and still has years to put on some muscle, which will do wonders for him. there is a good player hidden under what we see right now, im sure of it.

in regards to mudiay. i'm just not impressed. i was very impressed with him coming into the draft, because he was big and strong, he could put the ball on floor and i was hoping he'd be able to develop some PG skills. the crazy thing about mudiay is that after several years in the league, he looks like the same exact player as he did when he came into, if not worse. im not sure if the coaching in denver failed him and he's a broken dude right now, but he looks awful. maybe he needs his confidence built back up or something, but he just looks awful with no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
My God Mudiay is awful

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