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Early Kudos to Perry
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GustavBahler
Posts: 34948
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

3/2/2018  11:33 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/2/2018  11:35 AM
martin wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
martin wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
martin wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:lopez portis dont really strike fear into opposing centers or show consistency
koufos and WCS...gimme a break
hawks front line...see kings issues...
suns ...need starting C

why kanter would go...coz he'd get paid simple. He should know that whatever his stats were this year will be diminished next year after KP comes back. KP at center makes sense for Knicks...God forbid if Noah actually apologizes and makes an appearance. His defense is still better than Kanter's. If KOQ gets a Knick contract, Kanter knows he won't be re-signed.

why those teams would want him...he's a walking double double and with their putrid shooting several opportunities for putbacks which kanter excels at....they'd be getting their money's worth.

Don't think you are really give this a fair shake or are looking at full team makeup/salary. Just one example with Chicago, next year they will have at center:

Lopez: $14.3M
Asik: $11.2M
Cristiano Felicio: $8.4M

Total: $34M

With Lauri Markkanen, Noah Vonleh, Bobby Portis at PF, all under rookie contracts (Noah is RFA).

Your reasoning, twice now, does not pass the simple-check test

Lopez is not worth 14 mill, but quite affordable. Kanter is not worth 25 mill, but for a guy that on occasion can get your 31 points and 22 rebounds in a game and at the very least is a walking double double and can play big mins, a long terms contract worth 20 mill per year...i can see teams going for that. and oh lopez's contract is way easier to trade than mozzy or joakim for what he does.

asik gimme a break...he's backup C at best. buyout coming i think.

we are all just predicting at this point, but that's whats fun about it isn't it? i am challenging the prediction on here that no one goes after kanter. he's a very valuable asset to all bad shooting teams simply because of offensive putbacks.

whatever you want to say about double doubles and the one very lonely 31 and 22, you still think that Chicago, who pretty much has $34M of deadweight money spent at the center position, will want to spend ANOTHER say $15M per over multiple years on a no-defense playing C?

So what you are saying is that Chicago will be primed to spend nearly HALF their salary cap money next on 4 C's? And not use the money elsewhere?

This is what you think is good logic?

haters gonna hate. he's not the best center in the league but he's way better than any centers the bulls have. draft night trades are a thing you know?

total number of games played this season - 58
total games with 10+ points - 50+
total games with 10+ rebounds - 32
total games with 30+ between pts and rebs - 17

you talk about salary cap money on C's like it cannot change with trades. go ahead with that BS
the knicks are spending 40% of the cap on 3 C's
bulls situation would be better if they are spending on 4 Cs. and deadweight? um no...noah is deadweight, mozzy is deadweight. bulls Cs are actually quite tradeable.

you are forgetting THE most important stat with Kater:

total number of games where he has had a DIRECT impact on the game for which the Knicks have won: 0

I literally cannot think of one game where I can point to Kater as being the reason the Knicks won. Can you?

Bet you can find plenty of examples of Kanter keeping us in games. No, he hasnt put the team on his back and singlehandedly led us to victory. He often worked his butt off under the boards and kept them in it with second chance opportunities.

Kanter isnt a star, he is a first rate role player, and he is entering his prime. Better D will make him more of a two way player. Easier to learn D, than find players who can do what Kanter does under the rim.

AUTOADVERT
Nalod
Posts: 56395
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Member: #508
USA
3/2/2018  11:45 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:That's over simplistic....


Here's what you can say about Perry so far. Given his circumstances, he inherited some bad situations on this roster and team, he has not however ( so far) made it worse.

Phil Jackson inherited a bad situation. He traded for Calderon. He made it worse. He didn't have to trade for Calderon. He walked in with a team gutted of draft picks, not his fault. He signed Lance Thomas to a mind boggling deal for a 15th man type energy guy. He made it worse.

It's hard to say if Perry will be a GOOD GM or not.

Just being a "Not Bad GM" is not the same as a "Good GM" Not making your bad situation worse is a sign of a Not Bad GM. A Good GM will do things like Belichick did when he drafted Gronk and Aaron Hernandez, saw the trend curves and beat the league to the punch.

Perry is very limited by choices. He could only shop in Tier 5 of Free Agency, and he was limited by players who were not scooped up by contenders and could offer more money. In that regard, his choices were always limited.

If a team makes the correct market based decisions, in an early rebuild, the choices literally make themselves. Any young NBA intern could do Perry's job right now. However, it's wait and see down the road whether hes a Good GM or not.

He's not making his bad situations worse, that's all anyone can ask for at this stage. Since it's a huge relative improvement to that idiot Phil Jackson, it does look like super star stuff to some in contrast. It's not hard to look good when the guy before you was an idiot. God Bless Phil Jackson the coach, but running this team, he was truly out of his depth.


his tenure starts this offseason with the 9th pick, make it count.

Perry didn't have to trade melo, it's not like SUGE Knight came to his office with demands.

I would have giving cleveland, Frank/willy/1st rnd and whatever else they wanted (aside from KP) for Kyrie

Kyrie/THJ/Melo/KP/Noah and you would have still been able to get BURKE/Bease/jack

Phil did not inherit a bad team, Like perry, he made a trade that didn't solve any problems.

Perry did make a bad situation worse, he got rid of one disgruntle player(melo) that resulted in having 2 disgruntle players(noah and willy) and Noah's contract is 10x worse then melo's, and he's not even fckng playing which hurts even more. Now they're sitting there scratching their heads like (what do we do now)

His tenure started one second after he signed his contract, he's already been involved in FA and trade deadlines.

The fact that Perry has to answer to mills, he's more of an consultant than an actual GM, the same roll MILLs had when phil was here.

we never associated any moves under phil as a mills trade or mills signing.

Why do you think that is?

You don't show a fool a job half done!
martin
Posts: 47855
Alba Posts: 106
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
3/2/2018  11:48 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
martin wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
martin wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:lopez portis dont really strike fear into opposing centers or show consistency
koufos and WCS...gimme a break
hawks front line...see kings issues...
suns ...need starting C

why kanter would go...coz he'd get paid simple. He should know that whatever his stats were this year will be diminished next year after KP comes back. KP at center makes sense for Knicks...God forbid if Noah actually apologizes and makes an appearance. His defense is still better than Kanter's. If KOQ gets a Knick contract, Kanter knows he won't be re-signed.

why those teams would want him...he's a walking double double and with their putrid shooting several opportunities for putbacks which kanter excels at....they'd be getting their money's worth.

Don't think you are really give this a fair shake or are looking at full team makeup/salary. Just one example with Chicago, next year they will have at center:

Lopez: $14.3M
Asik: $11.2M
Cristiano Felicio: $8.4M

Total: $34M

With Lauri Markkanen, Noah Vonleh, Bobby Portis at PF, all under rookie contracts (Noah is RFA).

Your reasoning, twice now, does not pass the simple-check test

Lopez is not worth 14 mill, but quite affordable. Kanter is not worth 25 mill, but for a guy that on occasion can get your 31 points and 22 rebounds in a game and at the very least is a walking double double and can play big mins, a long terms contract worth 20 mill per year...i can see teams going for that. and oh lopez's contract is way easier to trade than mozzy or joakim for what he does.

asik gimme a break...he's backup C at best. buyout coming i think.

we are all just predicting at this point, but that's whats fun about it isn't it? i am challenging the prediction on here that no one goes after kanter. he's a very valuable asset to all bad shooting teams simply because of offensive putbacks.

whatever you want to say about double doubles and the one very lonely 31 and 22, you still think that Chicago, who pretty much has $34M of deadweight money spent at the center position, will want to spend ANOTHER say $15M per over multiple years on a no-defense playing C?

So what you are saying is that Chicago will be primed to spend nearly HALF their salary cap money next on 4 C's? And not use the money elsewhere?

This is what you think is good logic?

haters gonna hate. he's not the best center in the league but he's way better than any centers the bulls have. draft night trades are a thing you know?

total number of games played this season - 58
total games with 10+ points - 50+
total games with 10+ rebounds - 32
total games with 30+ between pts and rebs - 17

you talk about salary cap money on C's like it cannot change with trades. go ahead with that BS
the knicks are spending 40% of the cap on 3 C's
bulls situation would be better if they are spending on 4 Cs. and deadweight? um no...noah is deadweight, mozzy is deadweight. bulls Cs are actually quite tradeable.

you are forgetting THE most important stat with Kater:

total number of games where he has had a DIRECT impact on the game for which the Knicks have won: 0

I literally cannot think of one game where I can point to Kater as being the reason the Knicks won. Can you?

Bet you can find plenty of examples of Kanter keeping us in games. No, he hasnt put the team on his back and singlehandedly led us to victory. He often worked his butt off under the boards and kept them in it with second chance opportunities.

Kanter isnt a star, he is a first rate role player, and he is entering his prime. Better D will make him more of a two way player. Easier to learn D, than find players who can do what Kanter does under the rim.

I can get behind role player, but is he a starter or bench player? For me, thru the looking glass of a deep playoff team, Kanter could be a decent big man off bench. So what salary could you keep him that would NOT interfere with you long term goals?

Also, I disagree with the "easier to learn D" concept. I literally can think of only a handful of guys in the NBA, Bruce Bowen being top of that list, who changed their game, going from inadequate to passable (or better). I have not watched Kater before this year. Has he changed his defensive understanding over the past few years or is he the same? Kanter seems clueless out there and he is physically limited from being a rim protector, feel like Oakly or my grandma jumps higher than Kanter.

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GustavBahler
Posts: 34948
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

3/2/2018  12:20 PM
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
martin wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
martin wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:lopez portis dont really strike fear into opposing centers or show consistency
koufos and WCS...gimme a break
hawks front line...see kings issues...
suns ...need starting C

why kanter would go...coz he'd get paid simple. He should know that whatever his stats were this year will be diminished next year after KP comes back. KP at center makes sense for Knicks...God forbid if Noah actually apologizes and makes an appearance. His defense is still better than Kanter's. If KOQ gets a Knick contract, Kanter knows he won't be re-signed.

why those teams would want him...he's a walking double double and with their putrid shooting several opportunities for putbacks which kanter excels at....they'd be getting their money's worth.

Don't think you are really give this a fair shake or are looking at full team makeup/salary. Just one example with Chicago, next year they will have at center:

Lopez: $14.3M
Asik: $11.2M
Cristiano Felicio: $8.4M

Total: $34M

With Lauri Markkanen, Noah Vonleh, Bobby Portis at PF, all under rookie contracts (Noah is RFA).

Your reasoning, twice now, does not pass the simple-check test

Lopez is not worth 14 mill, but quite affordable. Kanter is not worth 25 mill, but for a guy that on occasion can get your 31 points and 22 rebounds in a game and at the very least is a walking double double and can play big mins, a long terms contract worth 20 mill per year...i can see teams going for that. and oh lopez's contract is way easier to trade than mozzy or joakim for what he does.

asik gimme a break...he's backup C at best. buyout coming i think.

we are all just predicting at this point, but that's whats fun about it isn't it? i am challenging the prediction on here that no one goes after kanter. he's a very valuable asset to all bad shooting teams simply because of offensive putbacks.

whatever you want to say about double doubles and the one very lonely 31 and 22, you still think that Chicago, who pretty much has $34M of deadweight money spent at the center position, will want to spend ANOTHER say $15M per over multiple years on a no-defense playing C?

So what you are saying is that Chicago will be primed to spend nearly HALF their salary cap money next on 4 C's? And not use the money elsewhere?

This is what you think is good logic?

haters gonna hate. he's not the best center in the league but he's way better than any centers the bulls have. draft night trades are a thing you know?

total number of games played this season - 58
total games with 10+ points - 50+
total games with 10+ rebounds - 32
total games with 30+ between pts and rebs - 17

you talk about salary cap money on C's like it cannot change with trades. go ahead with that BS
the knicks are spending 40% of the cap on 3 C's
bulls situation would be better if they are spending on 4 Cs. and deadweight? um no...noah is deadweight, mozzy is deadweight. bulls Cs are actually quite tradeable.

you are forgetting THE most important stat with Kater:

total number of games where he has had a DIRECT impact on the game for which the Knicks have won: 0

I literally cannot think of one game where I can point to Kater as being the reason the Knicks won. Can you?

Bet you can find plenty of examples of Kanter keeping us in games. No, he hasnt put the team on his back and singlehandedly led us to victory. He often worked his butt off under the boards and kept them in it with second chance opportunities.

Kanter isnt a star, he is a first rate role player, and he is entering his prime. Better D will make him more of a two way player. Easier to learn D, than find players who can do what Kanter does under the rim.

I can get behind role player, but is he a starter or bench player? For me, thru the looking glass of a deep playoff team, Kanter could be a decent big man off bench. So what salary could you keep him that would NOT interfere with you long term goals?

Also, I disagree with the "easier to learn D" concept. I literally can think of only a handful of guys in the NBA, Bruce Bowen being top of that list, who changed their game, going from inadequate to passable (or better). I have not watched Kater before this year. Has he changed his defensive understanding over the past few years or is he the same? Kanter seems clueless out there and he is physically limited from being a rim protector, feel like Oakly or my grandma jumps higher than Kanter.

KP/Kanter (when healthy) made a very good frontline tandem, one of the best in the league. Thought that their games complimented each other as well. Kanter's defensive problems isnt about effort, but decision making. That can be a focus with coaches, trainers. Going over film, coaching sessions etc. The effort is there on D.

If Kanter wasnt 25, and pushing 30, I would be more in line with your argument. Believe there is time for Kanter to improve defensively.

Speaking of improvement, Kanter became a more mobile big with his conditioning program last summer. Dropped weight. Plays through one bad injury after another. Brings energy and a positive outlook to the team. Believe Kanter brings enough to the table to make an offer.

For Perry that is a bit tricky, I agree that you dont want to overpay for Kanter . He's got Noah on the books, and no resolution in sight. Perry will probably make an offer, but Im guessing he will appeal to their cap situation, KP's next deal, and try to leverage what looks like a genuine desire by Kanter to stay in NY for Kanter not to ask for the moon.

I cant blame some for being cynical, but I think Kanter really wants to be a Knick long term, not just about getting paid.

As to your question of players improving defensively, Doug Christie became one of the best defenders in the league. Christie said it was because of the advice he got from JVG on the importance of becoming a better defender when they were both with the Knicks.

David Lee was flat out awful on D for most of his career, but he played respectable D when he helped GS win a ring off the bench. Kanter acts like someone who is willing to learn, the effort is there.

knicks1248
Posts: 38051
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
3/2/2018  12:30 PM
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:That's over simplistic....


Here's what you can say about Perry so far. Given his circumstances, he inherited some bad situations on this roster and team, he has not however ( so far) made it worse.

Phil Jackson inherited a bad situation. He traded for Calderon. He made it worse. He didn't have to trade for Calderon. He walked in with a team gutted of draft picks, not his fault. He signed Lance Thomas to a mind boggling deal for a 15th man type energy guy. He made it worse.

It's hard to say if Perry will be a GOOD GM or not.

Just being a "Not Bad GM" is not the same as a "Good GM" Not making your bad situation worse is a sign of a Not Bad GM. A Good GM will do things like Belichick did when he drafted Gronk and Aaron Hernandez, saw the trend curves and beat the league to the punch.

Perry is very limited by choices. He could only shop in Tier 5 of Free Agency, and he was limited by players who were not scooped up by contenders and could offer more money. In that regard, his choices were always limited.

If a team makes the correct market based decisions, in an early rebuild, the choices literally make themselves. Any young NBA intern could do Perry's job right now. However, it's wait and see down the road whether hes a Good GM or not.

He's not making his bad situations worse, that's all anyone can ask for at this stage. Since it's a huge relative improvement to that idiot Phil Jackson, it does look like super star stuff to some in contrast. It's not hard to look good when the guy before you was an idiot. God Bless Phil Jackson the coach, but running this team, he was truly out of his depth.


his tenure starts this offseason with the 9th pick, make it count.

Perry didn't have to trade melo, it's not like SUGE Knight came to his office with demands.

I would have giving cleveland, Frank/willy/1st rnd and whatever else they wanted (aside from KP) for Kyrie

Kyrie/THJ/Melo/KP/Noah and you would have still been able to get BURKE/Bease/jack

Phil did not inherit a bad team, Like perry, he made a trade that didn't solve any problems.

Perry did make a bad situation worse, he got rid of one disgruntle player(melo) that resulted in having 2 disgruntle players(noah and willy) and Noah's contract is 10x worse then melo's, and he's not even fckng playing which hurts even more. Now they're sitting there scratching their heads like (what do we do now)

His tenure started one second after he signed his contract, he's already been involved in FA and trade deadlines.

The fact that Perry has to answer to mills, he's more of an consultant than an actual GM, the same roll MILLs had when phil was here.

we never associated any moves under phil as a mills trade or mills signing.

Why do you think that is?

The only reason Mills has a job is because he's Dolan's BOY, that's his main qualifications, and don't act like you don't know that.

You don't think that's a problem?

ES
martin
Posts: 47855
Alba Posts: 106
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
3/2/2018  12:31 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
martin wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
martin wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:lopez portis dont really strike fear into opposing centers or show consistency
koufos and WCS...gimme a break
hawks front line...see kings issues...
suns ...need starting C

why kanter would go...coz he'd get paid simple. He should know that whatever his stats were this year will be diminished next year after KP comes back. KP at center makes sense for Knicks...God forbid if Noah actually apologizes and makes an appearance. His defense is still better than Kanter's. If KOQ gets a Knick contract, Kanter knows he won't be re-signed.

why those teams would want him...he's a walking double double and with their putrid shooting several opportunities for putbacks which kanter excels at....they'd be getting their money's worth.

Don't think you are really give this a fair shake or are looking at full team makeup/salary. Just one example with Chicago, next year they will have at center:

Lopez: $14.3M
Asik: $11.2M
Cristiano Felicio: $8.4M

Total: $34M

With Lauri Markkanen, Noah Vonleh, Bobby Portis at PF, all under rookie contracts (Noah is RFA).

Your reasoning, twice now, does not pass the simple-check test

Lopez is not worth 14 mill, but quite affordable. Kanter is not worth 25 mill, but for a guy that on occasion can get your 31 points and 22 rebounds in a game and at the very least is a walking double double and can play big mins, a long terms contract worth 20 mill per year...i can see teams going for that. and oh lopez's contract is way easier to trade than mozzy or joakim for what he does.

asik gimme a break...he's backup C at best. buyout coming i think.

we are all just predicting at this point, but that's whats fun about it isn't it? i am challenging the prediction on here that no one goes after kanter. he's a very valuable asset to all bad shooting teams simply because of offensive putbacks.

whatever you want to say about double doubles and the one very lonely 31 and 22, you still think that Chicago, who pretty much has $34M of deadweight money spent at the center position, will want to spend ANOTHER say $15M per over multiple years on a no-defense playing C?

So what you are saying is that Chicago will be primed to spend nearly HALF their salary cap money next on 4 C's? And not use the money elsewhere?

This is what you think is good logic?

haters gonna hate. he's not the best center in the league but he's way better than any centers the bulls have. draft night trades are a thing you know?

total number of games played this season - 58
total games with 10+ points - 50+
total games with 10+ rebounds - 32
total games with 30+ between pts and rebs - 17

you talk about salary cap money on C's like it cannot change with trades. go ahead with that BS
the knicks are spending 40% of the cap on 3 C's
bulls situation would be better if they are spending on 4 Cs. and deadweight? um no...noah is deadweight, mozzy is deadweight. bulls Cs are actually quite tradeable.

you are forgetting THE most important stat with Kater:

total number of games where he has had a DIRECT impact on the game for which the Knicks have won: 0

I literally cannot think of one game where I can point to Kater as being the reason the Knicks won. Can you?

Bet you can find plenty of examples of Kanter keeping us in games. No, he hasnt put the team on his back and singlehandedly led us to victory. He often worked his butt off under the boards and kept them in it with second chance opportunities.

Kanter isnt a star, he is a first rate role player, and he is entering his prime. Better D will make him more of a two way player. Easier to learn D, than find players who can do what Kanter does under the rim.

I can get behind role player, but is he a starter or bench player? For me, thru the looking glass of a deep playoff team, Kanter could be a decent big man off bench. So what salary could you keep him that would NOT interfere with you long term goals?

Also, I disagree with the "easier to learn D" concept. I literally can think of only a handful of guys in the NBA, Bruce Bowen being top of that list, who changed their game, going from inadequate to passable (or better). I have not watched Kater before this year. Has he changed his defensive understanding over the past few years or is he the same? Kanter seems clueless out there and he is physically limited from being a rim protector, feel like Oakly or my grandma jumps higher than Kanter.

KP/Kanter (when healthy) made a very good frontline tandem, one of the best in the league. Thought that their games complimented each other as well. Kanter's defensive problems isnt about effort, but decision making. That can be a focus with coaches, trainers. Going over film, coaching sessions etc. The effort is there on D.

If Kanter wasnt 25, and pushing 30, I would be more in line with your argument. Believe there is time for Kanter to improve defensively.

Speaking of improvement, Kanter became a more mobile big with his conditioning program last summer. Dropped weight. Plays through one bad injury after another. Brings energy and a positive outlook to the team. Believe Kanter brings enough to the table to make an offer.

For Perry that is a bit tricky, I agree that you dont want to overpay for Kanter . He's got Noah on the books, and no resolution in sight. Perry will probably make an offer, but Im guessing he will appeal to their cap situation, KP's next deal, and try to leverage what looks like a genuine desire by Kanter to stay in NY for Kanter not to ask for the moon.

I cant blame some for being cynical, but I think Kanter really wants to be a Knick long term, not just about getting paid.

As to your question of players improving defensively, Doug Christie became one of the best defenders in the league. Christie said it was because of the advice he got from JVG on the importance of becoming a better defender when they were both with the Knicks.

David Lee was flat out awful on D for most of his career, but he played respectable D when he helped GS win a ring off the bench. Kanter acts like someone who is willing to learn, the effort is there.

So direct questions to you: Do you see Kanter as a starter or bench player on a playoff team?

What price are you willing to bring him back (after next year, assuming he opts in)?

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GustavBahler
Posts: 34948
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

3/2/2018  12:47 PM
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
martin wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
martin wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:lopez portis dont really strike fear into opposing centers or show consistency
koufos and WCS...gimme a break
hawks front line...see kings issues...
suns ...need starting C

why kanter would go...coz he'd get paid simple. He should know that whatever his stats were this year will be diminished next year after KP comes back. KP at center makes sense for Knicks...God forbid if Noah actually apologizes and makes an appearance. His defense is still better than Kanter's. If KOQ gets a Knick contract, Kanter knows he won't be re-signed.

why those teams would want him...he's a walking double double and with their putrid shooting several opportunities for putbacks which kanter excels at....they'd be getting their money's worth.

Don't think you are really give this a fair shake or are looking at full team makeup/salary. Just one example with Chicago, next year they will have at center:

Lopez: $14.3M
Asik: $11.2M
Cristiano Felicio: $8.4M

Total: $34M

With Lauri Markkanen, Noah Vonleh, Bobby Portis at PF, all under rookie contracts (Noah is RFA).

Your reasoning, twice now, does not pass the simple-check test

Lopez is not worth 14 mill, but quite affordable. Kanter is not worth 25 mill, but for a guy that on occasion can get your 31 points and 22 rebounds in a game and at the very least is a walking double double and can play big mins, a long terms contract worth 20 mill per year...i can see teams going for that. and oh lopez's contract is way easier to trade than mozzy or joakim for what he does.

asik gimme a break...he's backup C at best. buyout coming i think.

we are all just predicting at this point, but that's whats fun about it isn't it? i am challenging the prediction on here that no one goes after kanter. he's a very valuable asset to all bad shooting teams simply because of offensive putbacks.

whatever you want to say about double doubles and the one very lonely 31 and 22, you still think that Chicago, who pretty much has $34M of deadweight money spent at the center position, will want to spend ANOTHER say $15M per over multiple years on a no-defense playing C?

So what you are saying is that Chicago will be primed to spend nearly HALF their salary cap money next on 4 C's? And not use the money elsewhere?

This is what you think is good logic?

haters gonna hate. he's not the best center in the league but he's way better than any centers the bulls have. draft night trades are a thing you know?

total number of games played this season - 58
total games with 10+ points - 50+
total games with 10+ rebounds - 32
total games with 30+ between pts and rebs - 17

you talk about salary cap money on C's like it cannot change with trades. go ahead with that BS
the knicks are spending 40% of the cap on 3 C's
bulls situation would be better if they are spending on 4 Cs. and deadweight? um no...noah is deadweight, mozzy is deadweight. bulls Cs are actually quite tradeable.

you are forgetting THE most important stat with Kater:

total number of games where he has had a DIRECT impact on the game for which the Knicks have won: 0

I literally cannot think of one game where I can point to Kater as being the reason the Knicks won. Can you?

Bet you can find plenty of examples of Kanter keeping us in games. No, he hasnt put the team on his back and singlehandedly led us to victory. He often worked his butt off under the boards and kept them in it with second chance opportunities.

Kanter isnt a star, he is a first rate role player, and he is entering his prime. Better D will make him more of a two way player. Easier to learn D, than find players who can do what Kanter does under the rim.

I can get behind role player, but is he a starter or bench player? For me, thru the looking glass of a deep playoff team, Kanter could be a decent big man off bench. So what salary could you keep him that would NOT interfere with you long term goals?

Also, I disagree with the "easier to learn D" concept. I literally can think of only a handful of guys in the NBA, Bruce Bowen being top of that list, who changed their game, going from inadequate to passable (or better). I have not watched Kater before this year. Has he changed his defensive understanding over the past few years or is he the same? Kanter seems clueless out there and he is physically limited from being a rim protector, feel like Oakly or my grandma jumps higher than Kanter.

KP/Kanter (when healthy) made a very good frontline tandem, one of the best in the league. Thought that their games complimented each other as well. Kanter's defensive problems isnt about effort, but decision making. That can be a focus with coaches, trainers. Going over film, coaching sessions etc. The effort is there on D.

If Kanter wasnt 25, and pushing 30, I would be more in line with your argument. Believe there is time for Kanter to improve defensively.

Speaking of improvement, Kanter became a more mobile big with his conditioning program last summer. Dropped weight. Plays through one bad injury after another. Brings energy and a positive outlook to the team. Believe Kanter brings enough to the table to make an offer.

For Perry that is a bit tricky, I agree that you dont want to overpay for Kanter . He's got Noah on the books, and no resolution in sight. Perry will probably make an offer, but Im guessing he will appeal to their cap situation, KP's next deal, and try to leverage what looks like a genuine desire by Kanter to stay in NY for Kanter not to ask for the moon.

I cant blame some for being cynical, but I think Kanter really wants to be a Knick long term, not just about getting paid.

As to your question of players improving defensively, Doug Christie became one of the best defenders in the league. Christie said it was because of the advice he got from JVG on the importance of becoming a better defender when they were both with the Knicks.

David Lee was flat out awful on D for most of his career, but he played respectable D when he helped GS win a ring off the bench. Kanter acts like someone who is willing to learn, the effort is there.

So direct questions to you: Do you see Kanter as a starter or bench player on a playoff team?

What price are you willing to bring him back (after next year, assuming he opts in)?

Right now Kanter plays like a starter who sometimes shouldnt finish because of who the other team is putting on the floor. We are a couple of seasons at least from being a playoff team, when Kanter is entering his prime.

You can be a starter, and a role player. Not all starters are stars. Kanter puts up starter numbers. Hard to argue with that IMO. As far as how much to offer, thats a toughie, this far out. Guessing that Kanter will opt in, and Perry will have a year to play with the cap, which will affect how much he has to (or wants to) offer Kanter.

Right now as GM, I would offer somewhere between 15-20 a year.

Perry probably has another season to see if he wants to commit to a long term deal. We might end up drafting another game changing big, who knows? Having another season to make that call would be ideal.

BigDaddyG
Posts: 26242
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 1/22/2010
Member: #3049

3/2/2018  12:56 PM
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
martin wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
martin wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:lopez portis dont really strike fear into opposing centers or show consistency
koufos and WCS...gimme a break
hawks front line...see kings issues...
suns ...need starting C

why kanter would go...coz he'd get paid simple. He should know that whatever his stats were this year will be diminished next year after KP comes back. KP at center makes sense for Knicks...God forbid if Noah actually apologizes and makes an appearance. His defense is still better than Kanter's. If KOQ gets a Knick contract, Kanter knows he won't be re-signed.

why those teams would want him...he's a walking double double and with their putrid shooting several opportunities for putbacks which kanter excels at....they'd be getting their money's worth.

Don't think you are really give this a fair shake or are looking at full team makeup/salary. Just one example with Chicago, next year they will have at center:

Lopez: $14.3M
Asik: $11.2M
Cristiano Felicio: $8.4M

Total: $34M

With Lauri Markkanen, Noah Vonleh, Bobby Portis at PF, all under rookie contracts (Noah is RFA).

Your reasoning, twice now, does not pass the simple-check test

Lopez is not worth 14 mill, but quite affordable. Kanter is not worth 25 mill, but for a guy that on occasion can get your 31 points and 22 rebounds in a game and at the very least is a walking double double and can play big mins, a long terms contract worth 20 mill per year...i can see teams going for that. and oh lopez's contract is way easier to trade than mozzy or joakim for what he does.

asik gimme a break...he's backup C at best. buyout coming i think.

we are all just predicting at this point, but that's whats fun about it isn't it? i am challenging the prediction on here that no one goes after kanter. he's a very valuable asset to all bad shooting teams simply because of offensive putbacks.

whatever you want to say about double doubles and the one very lonely 31 and 22, you still think that Chicago, who pretty much has $34M of deadweight money spent at the center position, will want to spend ANOTHER say $15M per over multiple years on a no-defense playing C?

So what you are saying is that Chicago will be primed to spend nearly HALF their salary cap money next on 4 C's? And not use the money elsewhere?

This is what you think is good logic?

haters gonna hate. he's not the best center in the league but he's way better than any centers the bulls have. draft night trades are a thing you know?

total number of games played this season - 58
total games with 10+ points - 50+
total games with 10+ rebounds - 32
total games with 30+ between pts and rebs - 17

you talk about salary cap money on C's like it cannot change with trades. go ahead with that BS
the knicks are spending 40% of the cap on 3 C's
bulls situation would be better if they are spending on 4 Cs. and deadweight? um no...noah is deadweight, mozzy is deadweight. bulls Cs are actually quite tradeable.

you are forgetting THE most important stat with Kater:

total number of games where he has had a DIRECT impact on the game for which the Knicks have won: 0

I literally cannot think of one game where I can point to Kater as being the reason the Knicks won. Can you?

Bet you can find plenty of examples of Kanter keeping us in games. No, he hasnt put the team on his back and singlehandedly led us to victory. He often worked his butt off under the boards and kept them in it with second chance opportunities.

Kanter isnt a star, he is a first rate role player, and he is entering his prime. Better D will make him more of a two way player. Easier to learn D, than find players who can do what Kanter does under the rim.

I can get behind role player, but is he a starter or bench player? For me, thru the looking glass of a deep playoff team, Kanter could be a decent big man off bench. So what salary could you keep him that would NOT interfere with you long term goals?

Also, I disagree with the "easier to learn D" concept. I literally can think of only a handful of guys in the NBA, Bruce Bowen being top of that list, who changed their game, going from inadequate to passable (or better). I have not watched Kater before this year. Has he changed his defensive understanding over the past few years or is he the same? Kanter seems clueless out there and he is physically limited from being a rim protector, feel like Oakly or my grandma jumps higher than Kanter.

KP/Kanter (when healthy) made a very good frontline tandem, one of the best in the league. Thought that their games complimented each other as well. Kanter's defensive problems isnt about effort, but decision making. That can be a focus with coaches, trainers. Going over film, coaching sessions etc. The effort is there on D.

If Kanter wasnt 25, and pushing 30, I would be more in line with your argument. Believe there is time for Kanter to improve defensively.

Speaking of improvement, Kanter became a more mobile big with his conditioning program last summer. Dropped weight. Plays through one bad injury after another. Brings energy and a positive outlook to the team. Believe Kanter brings enough to the table to make an offer.

For Perry that is a bit tricky, I agree that you dont want to overpay for Kanter . He's got Noah on the books, and no resolution in sight. Perry will probably make an offer, but Im guessing he will appeal to their cap situation, KP's next deal, and try to leverage what looks like a genuine desire by Kanter to stay in NY for Kanter not to ask for the moon.

I cant blame some for being cynical, but I think Kanter really wants to be a Knick long term, not just about getting paid.

As to your question of players improving defensively, Doug Christie became one of the best defenders in the league. Christie said it was because of the advice he got from JVG on the importance of becoming a better defender when they were both with the Knicks.

David Lee was flat out awful on D for most of his career, but he played respectable D when he helped GS win a ring off the bench. Kanter acts like someone who is willing to learn, the effort is there.

So direct questions to you: Do you see Kanter as a starter or bench player on a playoff team?

What price are you willing to bring him back (after next year, assuming he opts in)?

I'm pretty sure Kanter opts in, but let's say he doesn't. Would you rather have KOQ for about $8 going forward or Kanter for a little bit more. I couldn't see both staying and this upcoming draft is stocked with big men. Yeah, Kanter is only 25, but he's got seven years in the league now. What you see now is pretty much what you're getting.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
GustavBahler
Posts: 34948
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

3/2/2018  1:03 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
martin wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
martin wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:lopez portis dont really strike fear into opposing centers or show consistency
koufos and WCS...gimme a break
hawks front line...see kings issues...
suns ...need starting C

why kanter would go...coz he'd get paid simple. He should know that whatever his stats were this year will be diminished next year after KP comes back. KP at center makes sense for Knicks...God forbid if Noah actually apologizes and makes an appearance. His defense is still better than Kanter's. If KOQ gets a Knick contract, Kanter knows he won't be re-signed.

why those teams would want him...he's a walking double double and with their putrid shooting several opportunities for putbacks which kanter excels at....they'd be getting their money's worth.

Don't think you are really give this a fair shake or are looking at full team makeup/salary. Just one example with Chicago, next year they will have at center:

Lopez: $14.3M
Asik: $11.2M
Cristiano Felicio: $8.4M

Total: $34M

With Lauri Markkanen, Noah Vonleh, Bobby Portis at PF, all under rookie contracts (Noah is RFA).

Your reasoning, twice now, does not pass the simple-check test

Lopez is not worth 14 mill, but quite affordable. Kanter is not worth 25 mill, but for a guy that on occasion can get your 31 points and 22 rebounds in a game and at the very least is a walking double double and can play big mins, a long terms contract worth 20 mill per year...i can see teams going for that. and oh lopez's contract is way easier to trade than mozzy or joakim for what he does.

asik gimme a break...he's backup C at best. buyout coming i think.

we are all just predicting at this point, but that's whats fun about it isn't it? i am challenging the prediction on here that no one goes after kanter. he's a very valuable asset to all bad shooting teams simply because of offensive putbacks.

whatever you want to say about double doubles and the one very lonely 31 and 22, you still think that Chicago, who pretty much has $34M of deadweight money spent at the center position, will want to spend ANOTHER say $15M per over multiple years on a no-defense playing C?

So what you are saying is that Chicago will be primed to spend nearly HALF their salary cap money next on 4 C's? And not use the money elsewhere?

This is what you think is good logic?

haters gonna hate. he's not the best center in the league but he's way better than any centers the bulls have. draft night trades are a thing you know?

total number of games played this season - 58
total games with 10+ points - 50+
total games with 10+ rebounds - 32
total games with 30+ between pts and rebs - 17

you talk about salary cap money on C's like it cannot change with trades. go ahead with that BS
the knicks are spending 40% of the cap on 3 C's
bulls situation would be better if they are spending on 4 Cs. and deadweight? um no...noah is deadweight, mozzy is deadweight. bulls Cs are actually quite tradeable.

you are forgetting THE most important stat with Kater:

total number of games where he has had a DIRECT impact on the game for which the Knicks have won: 0

I literally cannot think of one game where I can point to Kater as being the reason the Knicks won. Can you?

Bet you can find plenty of examples of Kanter keeping us in games. No, he hasnt put the team on his back and singlehandedly led us to victory. He often worked his butt off under the boards and kept them in it with second chance opportunities.

Kanter isnt a star, he is a first rate role player, and he is entering his prime. Better D will make him more of a two way player. Easier to learn D, than find players who can do what Kanter does under the rim.

I can get behind role player, but is he a starter or bench player? For me, thru the looking glass of a deep playoff team, Kanter could be a decent big man off bench. So what salary could you keep him that would NOT interfere with you long term goals?

Also, I disagree with the "easier to learn D" concept. I literally can think of only a handful of guys in the NBA, Bruce Bowen being top of that list, who changed their game, going from inadequate to passable (or better). I have not watched Kater before this year. Has he changed his defensive understanding over the past few years or is he the same? Kanter seems clueless out there and he is physically limited from being a rim protector, feel like Oakly or my grandma jumps higher than Kanter.

KP/Kanter (when healthy) made a very good frontline tandem, one of the best in the league. Thought that their games complimented each other as well. Kanter's defensive problems isnt about effort, but decision making. That can be a focus with coaches, trainers. Going over film, coaching sessions etc. The effort is there on D.

If Kanter wasnt 25, and pushing 30, I would be more in line with your argument. Believe there is time for Kanter to improve defensively.

Speaking of improvement, Kanter became a more mobile big with his conditioning program last summer. Dropped weight. Plays through one bad injury after another. Brings energy and a positive outlook to the team. Believe Kanter brings enough to the table to make an offer.

For Perry that is a bit tricky, I agree that you dont want to overpay for Kanter . He's got Noah on the books, and no resolution in sight. Perry will probably make an offer, but Im guessing he will appeal to their cap situation, KP's next deal, and try to leverage what looks like a genuine desire by Kanter to stay in NY for Kanter not to ask for the moon.

I cant blame some for being cynical, but I think Kanter really wants to be a Knick long term, not just about getting paid.

As to your question of players improving defensively, Doug Christie became one of the best defenders in the league. Christie said it was because of the advice he got from JVG on the importance of becoming a better defender when they were both with the Knicks.

David Lee was flat out awful on D for most of his career, but he played respectable D when he helped GS win a ring off the bench. Kanter acts like someone who is willing to learn, the effort is there.

So direct questions to you: Do you see Kanter as a starter or bench player on a playoff team?

What price are you willing to bring him back (after next year, assuming he opts in)?

I'm pretty sure Kanter opts in, but let's say he doesn't. Would you rather have KOQ for about $8 going forward or Kanter for a little bit more. I couldn't see both staying and this upcoming draft is stocked with big men. Yeah, Kanter is only 25, but he's got seven years in the league now. What you see now is pretty much what you're getting.

Kanter dominates in the paint like few bigs can, on offense anyway. Kanter is more of a game changer than KOQ.

If we were talking about offense, seven years in the league would pretty much tell who Kanter is on offense.

Disagree that Kanter cant learn to read defenses better.

Nalod
Posts: 56395
Alba Posts: 151
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
3/2/2018  1:59 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/2/2018  2:03 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:That's over simplistic....


Here's what you can say about Perry so far. Given his circumstances, he inherited some bad situations on this roster and team, he has not however ( so far) made it worse.

Phil Jackson inherited a bad situation. He traded for Calderon. He made it worse. He didn't have to trade for Calderon. He walked in with a team gutted of draft picks, not his fault. He signed Lance Thomas to a mind boggling deal for a 15th man type energy guy. He made it worse.

It's hard to say if Perry will be a GOOD GM or not.

Just being a "Not Bad GM" is not the same as a "Good GM" Not making your bad situation worse is a sign of a Not Bad GM. A Good GM will do things like Belichick did when he drafted Gronk and Aaron Hernandez, saw the trend curves and beat the league to the punch.

Perry is very limited by choices. He could only shop in Tier 5 of Free Agency, and he was limited by players who were not scooped up by contenders and could offer more money. In that regard, his choices were always limited.

If a team makes the correct market based decisions, in an early rebuild, the choices literally make themselves. Any young NBA intern could do Perry's job right now. However, it's wait and see down the road whether hes a Good GM or not.

He's not making his bad situations worse, that's all anyone can ask for at this stage. Since it's a huge relative improvement to that idiot Phil Jackson, it does look like super star stuff to some in contrast. It's not hard to look good when the guy before you was an idiot. God Bless Phil Jackson the coach, but running this team, he was truly out of his depth.


his tenure starts this offseason with the 9th pick, make it count.

Perry didn't have to trade melo, it's not like SUGE Knight came to his office with demands.

I would have giving cleveland, Frank/willy/1st rnd and whatever else they wanted (aside from KP) for Kyrie

Kyrie/THJ/Melo/KP/Noah and you would have still been able to get BURKE/Bease/jack

Phil did not inherit a bad team, Like perry, he made a trade that didn't solve any problems.

Perry did make a bad situation worse, he got rid of one disgruntle player(melo) that resulted in having 2 disgruntle players(noah and willy) and Noah's contract is 10x worse then melo's, and he's not even fckng playing which hurts even more. Now they're sitting there scratching their heads like (what do we do now)

His tenure started one second after he signed his contract, he's already been involved in FA and trade deadlines.

The fact that Perry has to answer to mills, he's more of an consultant than an actual GM, the same roll MILLs had when phil was here.

we never associated any moves under phil as a mills trade or mills signing.

Why do you think that is?

The only reason Mills has a job is because he's Dolan's BOY, that's his main qualifications, and don't act like you don't know that.

You don't think that's a problem?


Career
Mills played professional basketball in Ecuador for a year.[2] He worked for the National Basketball Association for sixteen years beginning in 1984 after having worked at Chemical Bank. Mills ascension while at the NBA was notable. He was an account executive in the corporate sponsorship department of NBA properties and program manager for NBA properties. He became vice-president of special events, after which he was senior vice-president of Basketball and Player Development,[3] Mills then became Chief operating officer and Sports Business President of Madison Square Garden in 2003.[4] His duties at MSG included supervising day-to-day operations, including finances, business strategies of the NBAs New York Knicks, NHL's New York Rangers and the WNBA's New York Liberty. All sports related activities were under his jurisdiction, including boxing, college basketball and track & field.

In 2009, Mills left MSG and joined Magic Johnson Enterprises where he helped create the Athletes & Entertainers Wealth Management Group, LLC (A&E).[5] of which he was a partner.[6]

On September 26, 2013, the New York Knicks announced Mills would be the executive vice president and general manager of the organization.[7]

On July 14, 2017, after announcing that Scott Perry would become the Knicks' newest general manager, the Knicks also announced Mills would be the new president of the organization, replacing the role that was previously held by Phil Jackson.

Memberships
Mills was on the Board of Trustees of USA Basketball and the Board of Trustees of the Basketball Hall of Fame. He currently is on the Board of Advisors for the Hospital for Special Surgery, Board of Directors of Harlem Junior Tennis and Board of Directors Princeton University Varsity Club. He also Co-Chairs the Princeton University Connect Initiative Task Force.

Achievements
Mills was named Black Enterprise's Corporate Executive of the Year in 2003,[4] and was listed as one of the Top Front Office Team Executives on Black Enterprise's 50 Most Powerful Blacks in Sports in 2005.[9]

Before getting hired by Dolan in 2013 it was rumored he was leading candidate to replace Billy Hunter as head of the NBA union.

You have to go a bit further than "HE DOLANS BOY". Do I have a problem? No, he seems qualified to be Team president. As GM? no, but think for a moment (Novel idea, right?), Your kind of stuck on titles than job description. What if Phil did all the roster stuff the GM does, but had final say on matters? What if Mills when he was GM did the financial work for the team as does most Presidents, but you just call him "GM". Same pay, same deal, but give Phil the title for many reasons. Including that Mills reports to Phil. Might be a bit unconventional to the causual reader. To test that theory, when Phil was made gone, look what happend, Mills title changed back and knicks hired Perry whose duties are more conventional to the GM title he holds.

So the question remains, is Mills qualified to be a team president? Do you have the corporate management acumen to debate his qualifications beyond "His Boy"?

You don't show a fool a job half done!
BigDaddyG
Posts: 26242
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 1/22/2010
Member: #3049

3/2/2018  2:08 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/2/2018  2:09 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
martin wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
martin wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:lopez portis dont really strike fear into opposing centers or show consistency
koufos and WCS...gimme a break
hawks front line...see kings issues...
suns ...need starting C

why kanter would go...coz he'd get paid simple. He should know that whatever his stats were this year will be diminished next year after KP comes back. KP at center makes sense for Knicks...God forbid if Noah actually apologizes and makes an appearance. His defense is still better than Kanter's. If KOQ gets a Knick contract, Kanter knows he won't be re-signed.

why those teams would want him...he's a walking double double and with their putrid shooting several opportunities for putbacks which kanter excels at....they'd be getting their money's worth.

Don't think you are really give this a fair shake or are looking at full team makeup/salary. Just one example with Chicago, next year they will have at center:

Lopez: $14.3M
Asik: $11.2M
Cristiano Felicio: $8.4M

Total: $34M

With Lauri Markkanen, Noah Vonleh, Bobby Portis at PF, all under rookie contracts (Noah is RFA).

Your reasoning, twice now, does not pass the simple-check test

Lopez is not worth 14 mill, but quite affordable. Kanter is not worth 25 mill, but for a guy that on occasion can get your 31 points and 22 rebounds in a game and at the very least is a walking double double and can play big mins, a long terms contract worth 20 mill per year...i can see teams going for that. and oh lopez's contract is way easier to trade than mozzy or joakim for what he does.

asik gimme a break...he's backup C at best. buyout coming i think.

we are all just predicting at this point, but that's whats fun about it isn't it? i am challenging the prediction on here that no one goes after kanter. he's a very valuable asset to all bad shooting teams simply because of offensive putbacks.

whatever you want to say about double doubles and the one very lonely 31 and 22, you still think that Chicago, who pretty much has $34M of deadweight money spent at the center position, will want to spend ANOTHER say $15M per over multiple years on a no-defense playing C?

So what you are saying is that Chicago will be primed to spend nearly HALF their salary cap money next on 4 C's? And not use the money elsewhere?

This is what you think is good logic?

haters gonna hate. he's not the best center in the league but he's way better than any centers the bulls have. draft night trades are a thing you know?

total number of games played this season - 58
total games with 10+ points - 50+
total games with 10+ rebounds - 32
total games with 30+ between pts and rebs - 17

you talk about salary cap money on C's like it cannot change with trades. go ahead with that BS
the knicks are spending 40% of the cap on 3 C's
bulls situation would be better if they are spending on 4 Cs. and deadweight? um no...noah is deadweight, mozzy is deadweight. bulls Cs are actually quite tradeable.

you are forgetting THE most important stat with Kater:

total number of games where he has had a DIRECT impact on the game for which the Knicks have won: 0

I literally cannot think of one game where I can point to Kater as being the reason the Knicks won. Can you?

Bet you can find plenty of examples of Kanter keeping us in games. No, he hasnt put the team on his back and singlehandedly led us to victory. He often worked his butt off under the boards and kept them in it with second chance opportunities.

Kanter isnt a star, he is a first rate role player, and he is entering his prime. Better D will make him more of a two way player. Easier to learn D, than find players who can do what Kanter does under the rim.

I can get behind role player, but is he a starter or bench player? For me, thru the looking glass of a deep playoff team, Kanter could be a decent big man off bench. So what salary could you keep him that would NOT interfere with you long term goals?

Also, I disagree with the "easier to learn D" concept. I literally can think of only a handful of guys in the NBA, Bruce Bowen being top of that list, who changed their game, going from inadequate to passable (or better). I have not watched Kater before this year. Has he changed his defensive understanding over the past few years or is he the same? Kanter seems clueless out there and he is physically limited from being a rim protector, feel like Oakly or my grandma jumps higher than Kanter.

KP/Kanter (when healthy) made a very good frontline tandem, one of the best in the league. Thought that their games complimented each other as well. Kanter's defensive problems isnt about effort, but decision making. That can be a focus with coaches, trainers. Going over film, coaching sessions etc. The effort is there on D.

If Kanter wasnt 25, and pushing 30, I would be more in line with your argument. Believe there is time for Kanter to improve defensively.

Speaking of improvement, Kanter became a more mobile big with his conditioning program last summer. Dropped weight. Plays through one bad injury after another. Brings energy and a positive outlook to the team. Believe Kanter brings enough to the table to make an offer.

For Perry that is a bit tricky, I agree that you dont want to overpay for Kanter . He's got Noah on the books, and no resolution in sight. Perry will probably make an offer, but Im guessing he will appeal to their cap situation, KP's next deal, and try to leverage what looks like a genuine desire by Kanter to stay in NY for Kanter not to ask for the moon.

I cant blame some for being cynical, but I think Kanter really wants to be a Knick long term, not just about getting paid.

As to your question of players improving defensively, Doug Christie became one of the best defenders in the league. Christie said it was because of the advice he got from JVG on the importance of becoming a better defender when they were both with the Knicks.

David Lee was flat out awful on D for most of his career, but he played respectable D when he helped GS win a ring off the bench. Kanter acts like someone who is willing to learn, the effort is there.

So direct questions to you: Do you see Kanter as a starter or bench player on a playoff team?

What price are you willing to bring him back (after next year, assuming he opts in)?

I'm pretty sure Kanter opts in, but let's say he doesn't. Would you rather have KOQ for about $8 going forward or Kanter for a little bit more. I couldn't see both staying and this upcoming draft is stocked with big men. Yeah, Kanter is only 25, but he's got seven years in the league now. What you see now is pretty much what you're getting.

Kanter dominates in the paint like few bigs can, on offense anyway. Kanter is more of a game changer than KOQ.

If we were talking about offense, seven years in the league would pretty much tell who Kanter is on offense.

Disagree that Kanter cant learn to read defenses better.


True, but KoQ is a better passer and defender. More importantly, I'm guessing his contract would be easier to move. I'm not keen on either one as our full-time starter and I don't think I'd be too upset if drafted a big in the draft. Someone who isn't as much of a liability on defense as Kanter, or as inconsistent as KOQ.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
knicks1248
Posts: 38051
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
3/2/2018  2:28 PM
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:That's over simplistic....


Here's what you can say about Perry so far. Given his circumstances, he inherited some bad situations on this roster and team, he has not however ( so far) made it worse.

Phil Jackson inherited a bad situation. He traded for Calderon. He made it worse. He didn't have to trade for Calderon. He walked in with a team gutted of draft picks, not his fault. He signed Lance Thomas to a mind boggling deal for a 15th man type energy guy. He made it worse.

It's hard to say if Perry will be a GOOD GM or not.

Just being a "Not Bad GM" is not the same as a "Good GM" Not making your bad situation worse is a sign of a Not Bad GM. A Good GM will do things like Belichick did when he drafted Gronk and Aaron Hernandez, saw the trend curves and beat the league to the punch.

Perry is very limited by choices. He could only shop in Tier 5 of Free Agency, and he was limited by players who were not scooped up by contenders and could offer more money. In that regard, his choices were always limited.

If a team makes the correct market based decisions, in an early rebuild, the choices literally make themselves. Any young NBA intern could do Perry's job right now. However, it's wait and see down the road whether hes a Good GM or not.

He's not making his bad situations worse, that's all anyone can ask for at this stage. Since it's a huge relative improvement to that idiot Phil Jackson, it does look like super star stuff to some in contrast. It's not hard to look good when the guy before you was an idiot. God Bless Phil Jackson the coach, but running this team, he was truly out of his depth.


his tenure starts this offseason with the 9th pick, make it count.

Perry didn't have to trade melo, it's not like SUGE Knight came to his office with demands.

I would have giving cleveland, Frank/willy/1st rnd and whatever else they wanted (aside from KP) for Kyrie

Kyrie/THJ/Melo/KP/Noah and you would have still been able to get BURKE/Bease/jack

Phil did not inherit a bad team, Like perry, he made a trade that didn't solve any problems.

Perry did make a bad situation worse, he got rid of one disgruntle player(melo) that resulted in having 2 disgruntle players(noah and willy) and Noah's contract is 10x worse then melo's, and he's not even fckng playing which hurts even more. Now they're sitting there scratching their heads like (what do we do now)

His tenure started one second after he signed his contract, he's already been involved in FA and trade deadlines.

The fact that Perry has to answer to mills, he's more of an consultant than an actual GM, the same roll MILLs had when phil was here.

we never associated any moves under phil as a mills trade or mills signing.

Why do you think that is?

The only reason Mills has a job is because he's Dolan's BOY, that's his main qualifications, and don't act like you don't know that.

You don't think that's a problem?


Career
Mills played professional basketball in Ecuador for a year.[2] He worked for the National Basketball Association for sixteen years beginning in 1984 after having worked at Chemical Bank. Mills ascension while at the NBA was notable. He was an account executive in the corporate sponsorship department of NBA properties and program manager for NBA properties. He became vice-president of special events, after which he was senior vice-president of Basketball and Player Development,[3] Mills then became Chief operating officer and Sports Business President of Madison Square Garden in 2003.[4] His duties at MSG included supervising day-to-day operations, including finances, business strategies of the NBAs New York Knicks, NHL's New York Rangers and the WNBA's New York Liberty. All sports related activities were under his jurisdiction, including boxing, college basketball and track & field.

In 2009, Mills left MSG and joined Magic Johnson Enterprises where he helped create the Athletes & Entertainers Wealth Management Group, LLC (A&E).[5] of which he was a partner.[6]

On September 26, 2013, the New York Knicks announced Mills would be the executive vice president and general manager of the organization.[7]

On July 14, 2017, after announcing that Scott Perry would become the Knicks' newest general manager, the Knicks also announced Mills would be the new president of the organization, replacing the role that was previously held by Phil Jackson.

Memberships
Mills was on the Board of Trustees of USA Basketball and the Board of Trustees of the Basketball Hall of Fame. He currently is on the Board of Advisors for the Hospital for Special Surgery, Board of Directors of Harlem Junior Tennis and Board of Directors Princeton University Varsity Club. He also Co-Chairs the Princeton University Connect Initiative Task Force.

Achievements
Mills was named Black Enterprise's Corporate Executive of the Year in 2003,[4] and was listed as one of the Top Front Office Team Executives on Black Enterprise's 50 Most Powerful Blacks in Sports in 2005.[9]

Before getting hired by Dolan in 2013 it was rumored he was leading candidate to replace Billy Hunter as head of the NBA union.

You have to go a bit further than "HE DOLANS BOY". Do I have a problem? No, he seems qualified to be Team president. As GM? no, but think for a moment (Novel idea, right?), Your kind of stuck on titles than job description. What if Phil did all the roster stuff the GM does, but had final say on matters? What if Mills when he was GM did the financial work for the team as does most Presidents, but you just call him "GM". Same pay, same deal, but give Phil the title for many reasons. Including that Mills reports to Phil. Might be a bit unconventional to the causual reader. To test that theory, when Phil was made gone, look what happend, Mills title changed back and knicks hired Perry whose duties are more conventional to the GM title he holds.

So the question remains, is Mills qualified to be a team president? Do you have the corporate management acumen to debate his qualifications beyond "His Boy"?

Qualification comes from experience, hell, Fisher was the union pres at one point. Nothing in mills back round suggest he is qualified to build a championship team.

Maybe if the team had a solid core and only required tinkering, but this is a total fckng mess, this requires someone with a lot of experience, and a proven back round

ES
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3/2/2018  3:06 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:That's over simplistic....


Here's what you can say about Perry so far. Given his circumstances, he inherited some bad situations on this roster and team, he has not however ( so far) made it worse.

Phil Jackson inherited a bad situation. He traded for Calderon. He made it worse. He didn't have to trade for Calderon. He walked in with a team gutted of draft picks, not his fault. He signed Lance Thomas to a mind boggling deal for a 15th man type energy guy. He made it worse.

It's hard to say if Perry will be a GOOD GM or not.

Just being a "Not Bad GM" is not the same as a "Good GM" Not making your bad situation worse is a sign of a Not Bad GM. A Good GM will do things like Belichick did when he drafted Gronk and Aaron Hernandez, saw the trend curves and beat the league to the punch.

Perry is very limited by choices. He could only shop in Tier 5 of Free Agency, and he was limited by players who were not scooped up by contenders and could offer more money. In that regard, his choices were always limited.

If a team makes the correct market based decisions, in an early rebuild, the choices literally make themselves. Any young NBA intern could do Perry's job right now. However, it's wait and see down the road whether hes a Good GM or not.

He's not making his bad situations worse, that's all anyone can ask for at this stage. Since it's a huge relative improvement to that idiot Phil Jackson, it does look like super star stuff to some in contrast. It's not hard to look good when the guy before you was an idiot. God Bless Phil Jackson the coach, but running this team, he was truly out of his depth.


his tenure starts this offseason with the 9th pick, make it count.

Started for me when Perry managed a good deal for Melo, in spite of his no trade clause.

Like those old TV commercials, 4 out of 5 Knicks GMs would have accepted a crappy deal in the same situation, just to unload Melo.


I have to say ditto for the Noah situation too. in the past, Noah would be playing for another team with a fat Knick check in his pocket.
"We are playing a game. We are playing at not playing a game..."
Nalod
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3/2/2018  4:03 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/2/2018  4:09 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:That's over simplistic....


Here's what you can say about Perry so far. Given his circumstances, he inherited some bad situations on this roster and team, he has not however ( so far) made it worse.

Phil Jackson inherited a bad situation. He traded for Calderon. He made it worse. He didn't have to trade for Calderon. He walked in with a team gutted of draft picks, not his fault. He signed Lance Thomas to a mind boggling deal for a 15th man type energy guy. He made it worse.

It's hard to say if Perry will be a GOOD GM or not.

Just being a "Not Bad GM" is not the same as a "Good GM" Not making your bad situation worse is a sign of a Not Bad GM. A Good GM will do things like Belichick did when he drafted Gronk and Aaron Hernandez, saw the trend curves and beat the league to the punch.

Perry is very limited by choices. He could only shop in Tier 5 of Free Agency, and he was limited by players who were not scooped up by contenders and could offer more money. In that regard, his choices were always limited.

If a team makes the correct market based decisions, in an early rebuild, the choices literally make themselves. Any young NBA intern could do Perry's job right now. However, it's wait and see down the road whether hes a Good GM or not.

He's not making his bad situations worse, that's all anyone can ask for at this stage. Since it's a huge relative improvement to that idiot Phil Jackson, it does look like super star stuff to some in contrast. It's not hard to look good when the guy before you was an idiot. God Bless Phil Jackson the coach, but running this team, he was truly out of his depth.


his tenure starts this offseason with the 9th pick, make it count.

Perry didn't have to trade melo, it's not like SUGE Knight came to his office with demands.

I would have giving cleveland, Frank/willy/1st rnd and whatever else they wanted (aside from KP) for Kyrie

Kyrie/THJ/Melo/KP/Noah and you would have still been able to get BURKE/Bease/jack

Phil did not inherit a bad team, Like perry, he made a trade that didn't solve any problems.

Perry did make a bad situation worse, he got rid of one disgruntle player(melo) that resulted in having 2 disgruntle players(noah and willy) and Noah's contract is 10x worse then melo's, and he's not even fckng playing which hurts even more. Now they're sitting there scratching their heads like (what do we do now)

His tenure started one second after he signed his contract, he's already been involved in FA and trade deadlines.

The fact that Perry has to answer to mills, he's more of an consultant than an actual GM, the same roll MILLs had when phil was here.

we never associated any moves under phil as a mills trade or mills signing.

Why do you think that is?

The only reason Mills has a job is because he's Dolan's BOY, that's his main qualifications, and don't act like you don't know that.

You don't think that's a problem?


Career
Mills played professional basketball in Ecuador for a year.[2] He worked for the National Basketball Association for sixteen years beginning in 1984 after having worked at Chemical Bank. Mills ascension while at the NBA was notable. He was an account executive in the corporate sponsorship department of NBA properties and program manager for NBA properties. He became vice-president of special events, after which he was senior vice-president of Basketball and Player Development,[3] Mills then became Chief operating officer and Sports Business President of Madison Square Garden in 2003.[4] His duties at MSG included supervising day-to-day operations, including finances, business strategies of the NBAs New York Knicks, NHL's New York Rangers and the WNBA's New York Liberty. All sports related activities were under his jurisdiction, including boxing, college basketball and track & field.

In 2009, Mills left MSG and joined Magic Johnson Enterprises where he helped create the Athletes & Entertainers Wealth Management Group, LLC (A&E).[5] of which he was a partner.[6]

On September 26, 2013, the New York Knicks announced Mills would be the executive vice president and general manager of the organization.[7]

On July 14, 2017, after announcing that Scott Perry would become the Knicks' newest general manager, the Knicks also announced Mills would be the new president of the organization, replacing the role that was previously held by Phil Jackson.

Memberships
Mills was on the Board of Trustees of USA Basketball and the Board of Trustees of the Basketball Hall of Fame. He currently is on the Board of Advisors for the Hospital for Special Surgery, Board of Directors of Harlem Junior Tennis and Board of Directors Princeton University Varsity Club. He also Co-Chairs the Princeton University Connect Initiative Task Force.

Achievements
Mills was named Black Enterprise's Corporate Executive of the Year in 2003,[4] and was listed as one of the Top Front Office Team Executives on Black Enterprise's 50 Most Powerful Blacks in Sports in 2005.[9]

Before getting hired by Dolan in 2013 it was rumored he was leading candidate to replace Billy Hunter as head of the NBA union.

You have to go a bit further than "HE DOLANS BOY". Do I have a problem? No, he seems qualified to be Team president. As GM? no, but think for a moment (Novel idea, right?), Your kind of stuck on titles than job description. What if Phil did all the roster stuff the GM does, but had final say on matters? What if Mills when he was GM did the financial work for the team as does most Presidents, but you just call him "GM". Same pay, same deal, but give Phil the title for many reasons. Including that Mills reports to Phil. Might be a bit unconventional to the causual reader. To test that theory, when Phil was made gone, look what happend, Mills title changed back and knicks hired Perry whose duties are more conventional to the GM title he holds.

So the question remains, is Mills qualified to be a team president? Do you have the corporate management acumen to debate his qualifications beyond "His Boy"?

Qualification comes from experience, hell, Fisher was the union pres at one point. Nothing in mills back round suggest he is qualified to build a championship team.

Maybe if the team had a solid core and only required tinkering, but this is a total fckng mess, this requires someone with a lot of experience, and a proven back round

I know accuracy matters in some circles. These are two different titles, jobs, responsibilities and skill sets. They are also different people.

National Basketball Players Association executive director
and then there is the NBPA President. One is a full time job and the other, the players president is the representative the players vote on for one PLAYER to represent them with union issues. If it was a school, Fisher would be like Class president. Not really the same thing.

I know you like to pivot to some other point to so I'll do this slowly:
1. Currently Michelle Roberts is the exec director. This is her back ground:

Roberts began her career in 1980 at Public Defender Service for the District of Columbia. She served in that role for eight years, rising to the chief of the trial division. She was mentored by attorney Charles Ogletree.[2][3]
Roberts built her reputation as a trial lawyer. She worked for Akin Gump from 2004 to 2011. In 2011 she was hired by Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom.[4]
Roberts was named executive director of the National Basketball Players Association in July 2014.[1] She succeeded Billy Hunter in the position. She received 32 of 36 votes.
In 2014 she was named one of ESPNW's Impact 25.[5]
Roberts is an adjunct faculty member at Harvard Law School and a fellow of the American College of Trial Lawyers. The Washingtonian once referred to her as the "finest pure trial lawyer in Washington."[1]

2. The current players president is Chris Paul. He is a basketball player. I don't need his resume to post. He is very good at what he does. The position is usually a top player that the players trust. See the difference?

Ok, You want someone in place that has already been successful somewhere else. I get that. Or you may even want someone that was an assistant. Like Sean Marks at the nets. Sean marks is the GM of the Nets, Not president. Why not read up on other NBA presidents. Interesting stuff btw.
Are you ok with the discussion we had about Mills being GM in title, but PHil did the roster thing? Good.

Ok, so lets pretend now that talent wise, Perry replaced Phil as the talent guy. While Mills has to sign off of moves, he has to anyway because the financial guy does that. But he also is responsible for all facets of the franchise. Marketing, sponsership sales, revenue, Those other people in teh front office like the Lawyers, the human resouces persons, security, travel, etc. Lots of things to sign off on. Did Phil do those things? Not really.

Phil is to blame for the last few years if your need this. Mills did not construct the team. I know you want to hate mills so much, and you can if you want to, but if your going to do this Nalod is here to help you. Trust this. Going forward you can blame Perry. If you want Perry to get fired and be replaced then its Mills job.
It does not obsolve Mills of responsibility.
Since Mills was recruited to be president, then Dolan hired Jax, its not on MIlls that phil failed. So now Mills is back at the top, where his skill set is best and he has perry watching all the roster stuff. This is how it works. Mills is on the clock and responsible for Perry since last summer.
Mills did sign THjr. In my opinion time was of the essence on that transaction.

Is it a mess? Well, that's your opinion. Some see the decision making process the last few years as the leading cause up to this moment as the mess. Change the process, yyou change the result. You need not change the people to do this.
some see this season as the symptom of missteps of the past.
That is why not everyone sees things as you do.

You don't show a fool a job half done!
martin
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3/2/2018  5:36 PM
GustavBahler wrote:KP/Kanter (when healthy) made a very good frontline tandem, one of the best in the league. Thought that their games complimented each other as well.

I have a vastly different opinion but agree that KP/Kanter compliment each other only because Kanter likes to rebound and is a bruiser and KP doesn't have those qualities. They are not nearly anywhere near the best in the league IMHO. Feel like I could rattle off half the leagues starting frontcourt and they'd be better than KP/Kanter.

GustavBahler wrote:Kanter's defensive problems isnt about effort, but decision making. That can be a focus with coaches, trainers. Going over film, coaching sessions etc. The effort is there on D.

If Kanter wasnt 25, and pushing 30, I would be more in line with your argument. Believe there is time for Kanter to improve defensively.

This is Kanter's 7th year in the league, no college experience and entered at 19. I'd give him some slack for like the first 3-5 years in league to get acclimated, etc. and to show growth as a player but he still has ZERO clue on defense, IMO this is beyond the point of learning. He needs to go from really bad to not inadequate with 4 prime defenders around him to hide his deficiencies if you are talking about a deep playoff team (as a starter). Think Isiah Thomas level on D. To compensate his atrocious D, IT needed to be a high level All-Star on the opposite end of the court for it to balance out (unless you are thinking to come off bench).

GustavBahler wrote:Speaking of improvement, Kanter became a more mobile big with his conditioning program last summer. Dropped weight. Plays through one bad injury after another. Brings energy and a positive outlook to the team. Believe Kanter brings enough to the table to make an offer.

I have not watched Kanter before this year. Has he changed that much from his OKC days? I can't tell. He dropped weight but did he gain most of it before that? Was it for the better, this improvement? I can't tell statistically.

For me, Kanter can't pass, can't play D, is easily double teamed on O, is a black hole on O, doesn't know how to pass out of double team, has a super nose for offensive rebounding, excellent FT shooter, poor shooter outside of 5 feet. ZERO intimidation at rim protection, doesn't know how to double team or rotate defensively. Very charismatic and Loves NY. He loved OKC the same, so maybe he loves everywhere outside of Utah. He hustles, EVERY player on a playoff team hustles, that's the bare minimum.

GustavBahler wrote:For Perry that is a bit tricky, I agree that you dont want to overpay for Kanter . He's got Noah on the books, and no resolution in sight. Perry will probably make an offer, but Im guessing he will appeal to their cap situation, KP's next deal, and try to leverage what looks like a genuine desire by Kanter to stay in NY for Kanter not to ask for the moon.

I cant blame some for being cynical, but I think Kanter really wants to be a Knick long term, not just about getting paid.

As to your question of players improving defensively, Doug Christie became one of the best defenders in the league. Christie said it was because of the advice he got from JVG on the importance of becoming a better defender when they were both with the Knicks.

David Lee was flat out awful on D for most of his career, but he played respectable D when he helped GS win a ring off the bench. Kanter acts like someone who is willing to learn, the effort is there.

David Lee was a 20 minute bench player for a deep playoff team. All-star (by injury replacement?).

You are willing to pay Kanter $15-20M as a bench player or completely challenged starter?

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CrushAlot
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3/2/2018  6:43 PM
From mid December.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/dec/21/knicks-overhaul-mills-perry-changing-franchises-id/
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
Cartman718
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3/3/2018  12:19 AM
Martin you are questioning Kanter’s impact on games. Really? Why don’t you do some research about he kept us in games. Centers that dominate like him on offense don’t go on trees.

Is kanter more of a $20 mill player or is Lopez more of a $14 mill player.

You can be biased against him all you want, but if EVERYONE in the nba got paid what they deserved, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Because Noah would not be on this team.

There are more teams willing to take a chance on no defense kanter than no offense Noah in today’s nba

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
Cartman718
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3/3/2018  12:20 AM
Don’t grow*
Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
martin
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3/3/2018  12:46 AM
Cartman718 wrote:Martin you are questioning Kanter's impact on games. Really? Why don't you do some research about he kept us in games. Centers that dominate like him on offense don't go on trees.

Is kanter more of a $20 mill player or is Lopez more of a $14 mill player.

You can be biased against him all you want, but if EVERYONE in the nba got paid what they deserved, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Because Noah would not be on this team.

There are more teams willing to take a chance on no defense kanter than no offense Noah in today's nba

I’m kinda drunk but even if I was sober I don’t think I’d understand what you tried to write

Wtf does Noah have to do with anything Kanter

I hate that I just wasted 5 minutes on this, back to beer

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TripleThreat
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3/3/2018  2:52 AM
GustavBahler wrote:Kanter's defensive problems isnt about effort, but decision making. That can be a focus with coaches, trainers. Going over film, coaching sessions etc. The effort is there on D.

If Kanter wasnt 25, and pushing 30, I would be more in line with your argument. Believe there is time for Kanter to improve defensively.

Speaking of improvement, Kanter became a more mobile big with his conditioning program last summer. Dropped weight. Plays through one bad injury after another. Brings energy and a positive outlook to the team. Believe Kanter brings enough to the table to make an offer.

.....As to your question of players improving defensively, Doug Christie became one of the best defenders in the league. Christie said it was because of the advice he got from JVG on the importance of becoming a better defender when they were both with the Knicks.


Kanter looks good on offense and high energy because he has ZERO RIM PROTECTION RESPONSIBILITIES. He also does not space the floor. At all. If every NBA pivot camped for rebounds like Kanter ( if they basically surrendered any responsibility to actually play defense ) they'd increase their rebounding numbers too.

Defensively he doesn't understand where he's supposed to be or why he needs to be there. He's a low IQ player. Effective rim protectors actually have to "quarterback" the defense. This was Noah's true value in his prime. Kanter can't even hold down his own position, how is he going to call out the defense for everyone else too?

After your first three years in the league, barring something like massive injuries, you are outside your prime developmental window.

He's not going to get better defensively. Also he's playing for a new contract. What happens when and if he gets paid? He's dogged it before in previous stops.

Doug Christie had the raw tools, the raw ability to defend. His issue was humility, that's not the case with Kanter. Kanter just doesn't know how to play defense period. Christie was ignorant, Kanter, for lack of a better term, is just stupid. Good motor, but defensively a dolt.

Best answer - The Knicks need to let the FA market collapse around them. Guys who would have been Tier 3 FAs will be Tier 4 guys, guys who would be Tier 4 guys will end up Tier 5 guys. Once the market takes a dump, IF and it's a huge IF, Kanter opts out and is still there after most teams spend their money, then see if he'll take a short deal that adjusts to current market. If he won't, let him go.

"Should have paid Lin and rid ourselves of Melo. Lin makes every team better." - HofstraBBall 11/12/2018
Early Kudos to Perry

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