jrodmc wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:Perry has done a great job. We were about to buy out Melo and instead we got a number of assets for him. He signed contributors to the team for basically nothing and no cap hit. The Willy trade is the only thing that is questionable, but it may well have been the right thing to do. The FO is exhibiting a patience and poise we haven't seen in a decade and a half.

Contributors signed for nothing who are contributing to nothing. Check.

He's managed to continue the trend of not dealing away picks. He gets a progress report of A just for not being IT.
I'd like to see how he does at his first starphucque.
How is Horny going to be handled?

Difficult to get excited at this point about moving flotsam around the bottom of the septic tank.

Big points for not being ISIAH!!! LOL!! How true!
Nothing to get excited about is an understatement. WHile Knicks1248 struggles to articulate that "if we are not winning there's nothing to be excited about", he is not incorrect. Those with lofty thread counts will continue to celebrate plodding along NOT trading picks and the simple satisfaction of making sound fundamental decisions.
That said, its also accepting that every year there is ALWAYS a pick that is short term better than the one you make. This year Mitchell was not just ours, but other teams as well. We did not take Monk. That is forgotten on many. Also Perry is not a glamorous celebrity GM. That he was hired because he is respected makes us giddy. Other teams do this all the time. Not the Knicks!!! Grunwald was left over from Isiah and Dolan resisted Walsh, and Donnies attempt to groom a successor.
Walsh was "forced" upon dolan. Isiah and Phil were failed starphuchs. Layden was a neophyte who might have been ok without Dolan interfering. We have to go back to GrunFeld to the last time we had just "a guy" who was just a GM.

So kudo's to the knicks for at least at the moment having an infrastructure of having our picks, and a FO intact. No guarantee of success, we all know this.

reub wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:Perry has done a great job. We were about to buy out Melo and instead we got a number of assets for him. He signed contributors to the team for basically nothing and no cap hit. The Willy trade is the only thing that is questionable, but it may well have been the right thing to do. The FO is exhibiting a patience and poise we haven't seen in a decade and a half.

Contributors signed for nothing who are contributing to nothing. Check.

He's managed to continue the trend of not dealing away picks. He gets a progress report of A just for not being IT.
I'd like to see how he does at his first starphucque.
How is Horny going to be handled?

Difficult to get excited at this point about moving flotsam around the bottom of the septic tank.

That's over simplistic. Jack and Beasley have outperformed expectations. The Melo trade was well done. I'm sure with a different GM we were cutting him ot trading him for Ryan Andersen. He's also actually acquired picks, albeit 2nd rounders. Muiday and Burke have been nice pickups, both acquired for free essentially. So yes more than sitting on his ass and not dealing away picks.

Beasley has had a worse season this year than he had the previous two years, according to WS48. He is well below an average NBA player.
Jack has also been a terrible player this year.
Mudiay has many more faults than positives.
Kanter and McDermott for Melo was a decent trade because of addition by subtraction, but it made us give Willy away and Kanter has many flaws. McDermott was just bad.
So I'm not sold on Perry by any means.

Nobody need be "Sold", we basically are talking about the direction.
Jack? Terrible? Based on expectation I though he has been great. He and Sessions were either a bridge or a band aid for this season.
Beas? For his minimum salary? His Stats? Some good moments but he is still "Sleepy Beas" all to often! He deserves Baker money.
Mudiay for McDermott? Its about upside. Mudiay has faults, but only 21. He gets a one year audition.
Giving Willy away? Thing is, he was not very good. Blame knicks for his decline? Have to credit them for rise then. We took one 2nd round pick and made them into two.
Our record speaks for itself.

franco12 wrote:I like what Perry has done.

I think my biggest problems were the Willy trade- that was almost a spiteful move to send him somewhere where he wouldn't get time.

I don't know there were better trade options, but once KP went down, we should have moved to give him playing time to develop him. I get that he doesn't play defense, and he may never- but David Lee had a pretty productive career

My other concern is we went a long time without giving time to Burke, and he has shown he should be our starter for a while now. Would have been nice for Perry to have a sit down with Jeff and splain some stuff to him so we could better our ping pong balls, and see what we have in some players.

And lastly, I don't like how the Noah stuff went down. I get it that it's a sunk cost, but I think maybe better management would have gotten him at least into the rotation so we could see if he could show something, and maybe provide some visibility into his potential value next year when we might be without 3 of our centers to start the season.

Also, nitpicking, but I would have liked to have seen Lee & maybe KOQ moved at the deadline. Again, I get that there might not have been any good deals for either. But I kinda look at the Rangers, and think we could have been better off being a bit more aggressive.

It was written Willy wanted no part of the Gleague.
It was written WIlly came in out of shape and not improved.
One would assume if Charlotte traded for him they would give him time. Im not sure that's on knicks.
Once season was shot, Burke got the call up. Burke had some up and down games, so lets not pretend he was held back just because he did well. Its a process.
He has not played in the NBA for a while, and not every game has been brilliant.
Do you know that perry and Jeff have not sat down and talked about Ping pong balls? No coach will ever publically admit to a tank. For what I can see, we are playing the kids. Jack is on the bench. Dodson is not deserving of big minutes. Hicks? Not sure he is deserving or has the talent. He is up. That says something. I have seen Westchester play in person. Burke was dominant, but hicks was good, not great. He might stick. Might not.
Look at league and there have been buyouts that worked better than trades. Joe Johnson for one. Why trade for Clee when you can have some guys free. Why burn a pick for KOQ, and not all teams had cap space to absorb. Your making assumptions there were deals.
Rangers sold and Hockey with real minor leagues are easier to construct deals for prospects. In fact hockey teams do this every year. Teams that might contend can fortify for a deep run and make a real big difference. NBA your talking about minor role players. Clee still has 2 years at 11mil per. Demand for KOQ was thin.
Why do you think he was not moved? Perry inept? Sleepy? Wants knicks to not get picks? Maybe he plans on resigning him?

TripleThreat wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:That's over simplistic....

Here's what you can say about Perry so far. Given his circumstances, he inherited some bad situations on this roster and team, he has not however ( so far) made it worse.

Phil Jackson inherited a bad situation. He traded for Calderon. He made it worse. He didn't have to trade for Calderon. He walked in with a team gutted of draft picks, not his fault. He signed Lance Thomas to a mind boggling deal for a 15th man type energy guy. He made it worse.

It's hard to say if Perry will be a GOOD GM or not.

Just being a "Not Bad GM" is not the same as a "Good GM" Not making your bad situation worse is a sign of a Not Bad GM. A Good GM will do things like Belichick did when he drafted Gronk and Aaron Hernandez, saw the trend curves and beat the league to the punch.

Perry is very limited by choices. He could only shop in Tier 5 of Free Agency, and he was limited by players who were not scooped up by contenders and could offer more money. In that regard, his choices were always limited.

If a team makes the correct market based decisions, in an early rebuild, the choices literally make themselves. Any young NBA intern could do Perry's job right now. However, it's wait and see down the road whether hes a Good GM or not.

He's not making his bad situations worse, that's all anyone can ask for at this stage. Since it's a huge relative improvement to that idiot Phil Jackson, it does look like super star stuff to some in contrast. It's not hard to look good when the guy before you was an idiot. God Bless Phil Jackson the coach, but running this team, he was truly out of his depth.

Agree, that this is not Perry's expected ceiling (from fans), but its definitely early kudos to not trade away anyone part of the future and still get assets.

Cartman718 wrote:

martin wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:lopez portis dont really strike fear into opposing centers or show consistency
koufos and WCS...gimme a break
hawks front line...see kings issues...
suns ...need starting C

why kanter would go...coz he'd get paid simple. He should know that whatever his stats were this year will be diminished next year after KP comes back. KP at center makes sense for Knicks...God forbid if Noah actually apologizes and makes an appearance. His defense is still better than Kanter's. If KOQ gets a Knick contract, Kanter knows he won't be re-signed.

why those teams would want him...he's a walking double double and with their putrid shooting several opportunities for putbacks which kanter excels at....they'd be getting their money's worth.

Don't think you are really give this a fair shake or are looking at full team makeup/salary. Just one example with Chicago, next year they will have at center:

Lopez: $14.3M
Asik: $11.2M
Cristiano Felicio: $8.4M

Total: $34M

With Lauri Markkanen, Noah Vonleh, Bobby Portis at PF, all under rookie contracts (Noah is RFA).

Your reasoning, twice now, does not pass the simple-check test

Lopez is not worth 14 mill, but quite affordable. Kanter is not worth 25 mill, but for a guy that on occasion can get your 31 points and 22 rebounds in a game and at the very least is a walking double double and can play big mins, a long terms contract worth 20 mill per year...i can see teams going for that. and oh lopez's contract is way easier to trade than mozzy or joakim for what he does.

asik gimme a break...he's backup C at best. buyout coming i think.

we are all just predicting at this point, but that's whats fun about it isn't it? i am challenging the prediction on here that no one goes after kanter. he's a very valuable asset to all bad shooting teams simply because of offensive putbacks.

whatever you want to say about double doubles and the one very lonely 31 and 22, you still think that Chicago, who pretty much has $34M of deadweight money spent at the center position, will want to spend ANOTHER say $15M per over multiple years on a no-defense playing C?

So what you are saying is that Chicago will be primed to spend nearly HALF their salary cap money next on 4 C's? And not use the money elsewhere?

This is what you think is good logic?

Cartman718 wrote:what about bulls suns kings

The Bulls and Kings are non viable for Kanter.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/phoenix-suns/cap/2019/

The Suns would do it if they could dump Brandon Knight's contract. What asset they'd have to give along with Knight would be an interesting question. Knight's injury will likely make him non viable for the rest of his Suns contract.

Kanter would operate mostly as a salary match and and an attempt to reach the salary floor.

Given how cap locked so many teams will be and desperate to get out of the tax zone, I don't think however that would be the best use of "renting" the cap space implied.

Kanter is only going to get moved for an expiring bad contract or an injured player on an expiring bad to mediocre contract. On a playoff hopeful or contender, not on a rebuilding team.

Jmpasq wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:That's over simplistic....

Here's what you can say about Perry so far. Given his circumstances, he inherited some bad situations on this roster and team, he has not however ( so far) made it worse.

Phil Jackson inherited a bad situation. He traded for Calderon. He made it worse. He didn't have to trade for Calderon. He walked in with a team gutted of draft picks, not his fault. He signed Lance Thomas to a mind boggling deal for a 15th man type energy guy. He made it worse.

It's hard to say if Perry will be a GOOD GM or not.

Just being a "Not Bad GM" is not the same as a "Good GM" Not making your bad situation worse is a sign of a Not Bad GM. A Good GM will do things like Belichick did when he drafted Gronk and Aaron Hernandez, saw the trend curves and beat the league to the punch.

Perry is very limited by choices. He could only shop in Tier 5 of Free Agency, and he was limited by players who were not scooped up by contenders and could offer more money. In that regard, his choices were always limited.

If a team makes the correct market based decisions, in an early rebuild, the choices literally make themselves. Any young NBA intern could do Perry's job right now. However, it's wait and see down the road whether hes a Good GM or not.

He's not making his bad situations worse, that's all anyone can ask for at this stage. Since it's a huge relative improvement to that idiot Phil Jackson, it does look like super star stuff to some in contrast. It's not hard to look good when the guy before you was an idiot. God Bless Phil Jackson the coach, but running this team, he was truly out of his depth.

his tenure starts this offseason with the 9th pick, make it count.

Started for me when Perry managed a good deal for Melo, in spite of his no trade clause.

Like those old TV commercials, 4 out of 5 Knicks GMs would have accepted a crappy deal in the same situation, just to unload Melo.

knicks1248 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:That's over simplistic....

Here's what you can say about Perry so far. Given his circumstances, he inherited some bad situations on this roster and team, he has not however ( so far) made it worse.

Phil Jackson inherited a bad situation. He traded for Calderon. He made it worse. He didn't have to trade for Calderon. He walked in with a team gutted of draft picks, not his fault. He signed Lance Thomas to a mind boggling deal for a 15th man type energy guy. He made it worse.

It's hard to say if Perry will be a GOOD GM or not.

Just being a "Not Bad GM" is not the same as a "Good GM" Not making your bad situation worse is a sign of a Not Bad GM. A Good GM will do things like Belichick did when he drafted Gronk and Aaron Hernandez, saw the trend curves and beat the league to the punch.

Perry is very limited by choices. He could only shop in Tier 5 of Free Agency, and he was limited by players who were not scooped up by contenders and could offer more money. In that regard, his choices were always limited.

If a team makes the correct market based decisions, in an early rebuild, the choices literally make themselves. Any young NBA intern could do Perry's job right now. However, it's wait and see down the road whether hes a Good GM or not.

He's not making his bad situations worse, that's all anyone can ask for at this stage. Since it's a huge relative improvement to that idiot Phil Jackson, it does look like super star stuff to some in contrast. It's not hard to look good when the guy before you was an idiot. God Bless Phil Jackson the coach, but running this team, he was truly out of his depth.

his tenure starts this offseason with the 9th pick, make it count.

Perry didn't have to trade melo, it's not like SUGE Knight came to his office with demands.

I would have giving cleveland, Frank/willy/1st rnd and whatever else they wanted (aside from KP) for Kyrie

Kyrie/THJ/Melo/KP/Noah and you would have still been able to get BURKE/Bease/jack

Phil did not inherit a bad team, Like perry, he made a trade that didn't solve any problems.

Perry did make a bad situation worse, he got rid of one disgruntle player(melo) that resulted in having 2 disgruntle players(noah and willy) and Noah's contract is 10x worse then melo's, and he's not even fckng playing which hurts even more. Now they're sitting there scratching their heads like (what do we do now)

His tenure started one second after he signed his contract, he's already been involved in FA and trade deadlines.

The fact that Perry has to answer to mills, he's more of an consultant than an actual GM, the same roll MILLs had when phil was here.

we never associated any moves under phil as a mills trade or mills signing.

martin wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

martin wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:lopez portis dont really strike fear into opposing centers or show consistency
koufos and WCS...gimme a break
hawks front line...see kings issues...
suns ...need starting C

why kanter would go...coz he'd get paid simple. He should know that whatever his stats were this year will be diminished next year after KP comes back. KP at center makes sense for Knicks...God forbid if Noah actually apologizes and makes an appearance. His defense is still better than Kanter's. If KOQ gets a Knick contract, Kanter knows he won't be re-signed.

why those teams would want him...he's a walking double double and with their putrid shooting several opportunities for putbacks which kanter excels at....they'd be getting their money's worth.

Don't think you are really give this a fair shake or are looking at full team makeup/salary. Just one example with Chicago, next year they will have at center:

Lopez: $14.3M
Asik: $11.2M
Cristiano Felicio: $8.4M

Total: $34M

With Lauri Markkanen, Noah Vonleh, Bobby Portis at PF, all under rookie contracts (Noah is RFA).

Your reasoning, twice now, does not pass the simple-check test

Lopez is not worth 14 mill, but quite affordable. Kanter is not worth 25 mill, but for a guy that on occasion can get your 31 points and 22 rebounds in a game and at the very least is a walking double double and can play big mins, a long terms contract worth 20 mill per year...i can see teams going for that. and oh lopez's contract is way easier to trade than mozzy or joakim for what he does.

asik gimme a break...he's backup C at best. buyout coming i think.

we are all just predicting at this point, but that's whats fun about it isn't it? i am challenging the prediction on here that no one goes after kanter. he's a very valuable asset to all bad shooting teams simply because of offensive putbacks.

whatever you want to say about double doubles and the one very lonely 31 and 22, you still think that Chicago, who pretty much has $34M of deadweight money spent at the center position, will want to spend ANOTHER say $15M per over multiple years on a no-defense playing C?

So what you are saying is that Chicago will be primed to spend nearly HALF their salary cap money next on 4 C's? And not use the money elsewhere?

This is what you think is good logic?

haters gonna hate. he's not the best center in the league but he's way better than any centers the bulls have. draft night trades are a thing you know?

total number of games played this season - 58
total games with 10+ points - 50+
total games with 10+ rebounds - 32
total games with 30+ between pts and rebs - 17

you talk about salary cap money on C's like it cannot change with trades. go ahead with that BS
the knicks are spending 40% of the cap on 3 C's
bulls situation would be better if they are spending on 4 Cs. and deadweight? um no...noah is deadweight, mozzy is deadweight. bulls Cs are actually quite tradeable.