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I like all of our guards
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BRIGGS
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2/26/2018  8:08 PM
I like the job the Knicks management have done.
I like the concept of playing 3 guards at most times
AUTOADVERT
Knixkik
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2/26/2018  9:42 PM
I agree. This team has a collection of nice future supporting cast players. We lack stars. KP will be one when he comes back, but we need another. Ntilikina, Hardaway, Burke, and Mudiay can become a nice guard collection as they all bring something different. Hardaway is a nice scorer as a 3rd option or 6th man in the future. Burke is a nice change of pace backup scoring PG. Mudiay is an attacking combo guard. Ntilikina has plenty of debate about his position, but most would agree he has the makings of a nice glue guard. He defends and can score when his confidence is there. His position is unknown, but he will be a player. I hope either he or Mudiay can establish themselves as a starting PG in this league soon. Dotson has 3 and D wing potential. Kanter can score, rebound, and has heart. That's 6 guys who can become a real nice supporting cast to 2 star players.
stopstandthere
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2/26/2018  11:43 PM
Sometimes we get use to like what we have.
smackeddog
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2/27/2018  3:09 AM
I think all your thread titles should be preceded with the word "Today"
fishmike
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2/27/2018  9:00 AM
smackeddog wrote:I think all your thread titles should be preceded with the word "Today"
no kidding. We are less than a week removed from "Mudiay is not that athletic" and him saying none of our guards are very good to this.

This is why you have to enjoy when he emphatically tells you he's a 100% certain that giving Alan Crabbe or Enes KAnter or Isiah Thomas max money is an absolute no brainer.

fishmike
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2/27/2018  9:02 AM
Knixkik wrote:I agree. This team has a collection of nice future supporting cast players. We lack stars. KP will be one when he comes back, but we need another. Ntilikina, Hardaway, Burke, and Mudiay can become a nice guard collection as they all bring something different. Hardaway is a nice scorer as a 3rd option or 6th man in the future. Burke is a nice change of pace backup scoring PG. Mudiay is an attacking combo guard. Ntilikina has plenty of debate about his position, but most would agree he has the makings of a nice glue guard. He defends and can score when his confidence is there. His position is unknown, but he will be a player. I hope either he or Mudiay can establish themselves as a starting PG in this league soon. Dotson has 3 and D wing potential. Kanter can score, rebound, and has heart. That's 6 guys who can become a real nice supporting cast to 2 star players.
the color you added actually quantifies things a bit. I agree. Good post. Not too pompom waiving... some realism that we may be starting to see the right kinds of players to build with.
Nalod
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2/27/2018  9:44 AM
Its really not that hard. "We need STARS!"
Can't imagine why Perry does not know this!!!
Isiah knew this.
Layden knew this.
Walsh knew this.
Grunwald knew this.
Phil knew this.
We need stars. We can trade for them, home grow them, sign as free agents!!!
Ok, I see. No problem!

Ok, Im a dicck. That said, yes, we are building support and perhaps assets to make trades to maybe make more trades or picks.
Its a process!!! "create as many opportunities to be lucky!".

Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
fishmike
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2/27/2018  9:54 AM
Nalod wrote:create as many opportunities to be lucky!
This is your pearl of wisdom I found in your stinky clam smelling post

Its 100% true! Williams, Dotson, Mudiay, Burke, Kornet, Hicks... maybe none become stars or even good players but the group is solid and promising and shows a commitment to developing young role players with upside instead of overspending on crappy old ones that dont move the needle anyway

Nalod
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2/27/2018  10:10 AM
fishmike wrote:
Nalod wrote:create as many opportunities to be lucky!
This is your pearl of wisdom I found in your stinky clam smelling post

Its 100% true! Williams, Dotson, Mudiay, Burke, Kornet, Hicks... maybe none become stars or even good players but the group is solid and promising and shows a commitment to developing young role players with upside instead of overspending on crappy old ones that dont move the needle anyway

My redundancy is frequent.
"Luck is when opportunity and preparation collide". So the more picks and players you bring in of quality its a higher probability to get lucky.
While nothing the knicks gave up in the melo trade was franchise changing, those assets might have been used in other ways to upgrade the talent.
Easy to say in hindsight when its an open concept statement. They are easy to make:
1. We need a better coach
2. We need more stars
3. We need a proven GM
4. We need a new owner

Etc etc. Sometimes new coach is worse! Same for GM and owner. If Dolan stays away, we have a chance. The lack of starphuch in the FO and on the bench is a good thing for a change. In hindsight Dolans enamored with charismatic guys like Isiah and Phil. They reek of success!!! On the other hand he did not listen to the basketball guys like Grunfeld, Layden and walsh. he stepped over them.
In this era of salary cap we can't buy our way out of the bottom. For the first time in a long time if ever we have:

Youth
All our 1st rounders
No starphuch Front office guys
An exiled Dolan
a budding star (KP)
a blue chip prospect (Frank)
We have had restoration projects like Mundiay before but rare this young.

IM not expecting much from "Manny' this season. In my book Frank is on pace with anything we read about him before he played a single game.
I don't let Dennis smith any player drafted after set the bench mark on my rooks progress. To do so is also an open concept and irrelevant.

I like our guards today. Baker comes back next year. Lets hope he is fixed. I think the young man lifted too many weights and lost his shot because of it. Just a theory.

Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
fishmike
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2/27/2018  10:43 AM
Yup. Im not spinning over building with this timeline or that one... just do things the right way long enough and the wins will come. You need luck and you need it in multiple areas to get good enough to win a title. That should never stop you from building the right way with the right kinds of players.

Ill say it again... Williams, Dotson, Mudiay, Burke, Kornet, Hicks.. these are our scrap heap guys and I think this is an incredibly solid group of guys this FO has added with literally no cost.

Frank (lottery pick) and Timmy (cap space, flexibility) had cost. Those are moves that can be costly mistakes if they dont yield good players. That first group? Considering Williams, Dotson, Mudiay, Burke, Kornet and Hicks cost us nothing that strikes me as a really good group with a mix of usefulness and upside while all being young/cheap/coachable

It has not been a bad first season for this management at all. Very good IMO

reub
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2/27/2018  12:50 PM
fishmike wrote:Yup. Im not spinning over building with this timeline or that one... just do things the right way long enough and the wins will come. You need luck and you need it in multiple areas to get good enough to win a title. That should never stop you from building the right way with the right kinds of players.

Ill say it again... Williams, Dotson, Mudiay, Burke, Kornet, Hicks.. these are our scrap heap guys and I think this is an incredibly solid group of guys this FO has added with literally no cost.

Frank (lottery pick) and Timmy (cap space, flexibility) had cost. Those are moves that can be costly mistakes if they dont yield good players. That first group? Considering Williams, Dotson, Mudiay, Burke, Kornet and Hicks cost us nothing that strikes me as a really good group with a mix of usefulness and upside while all being young/cheap/coachable

It has not been a bad first season for this management at all. Very good IMO

I agree. But Dotson and Kornet were added by Phil Jackson.

fishmike
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2/27/2018  3:33 PM
reub wrote:
fishmike wrote:Yup. Im not spinning over building with this timeline or that one... just do things the right way long enough and the wins will come. You need luck and you need it in multiple areas to get good enough to win a title. That should never stop you from building the right way with the right kinds of players.

Ill say it again... Williams, Dotson, Mudiay, Burke, Kornet, Hicks.. these are our scrap heap guys and I think this is an incredibly solid group of guys this FO has added with literally no cost.

Frank (lottery pick) and Timmy (cap space, flexibility) had cost. Those are moves that can be costly mistakes if they dont yield good players. That first group? Considering Williams, Dotson, Mudiay, Burke, Kornet and Hicks cost us nothing that strikes me as a really good group with a mix of usefulness and upside while all being young/cheap/coachable

It has not been a bad first season for this management at all. Very good IMO

I agree. But Dotson and Kornet were added by Phil Jackson.

Frank also but for what its worth they knew Phil was gone after the draft. If they let Phil go before the draft he becomes a risk so they kept him around. No way Mills lets Phil draft someone he's dead against (not that Mills is trustsworthy but he was in the mix). Phil drafted well. Im not a fan of the overly spirited debate over who gets credit (or blame) for what... Mills was here. Im not going to nitpick
Nalod
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2/27/2018  3:49 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/27/2018  3:50 PM
fishmike wrote:
reub wrote:
fishmike wrote:Yup. Im not spinning over building with this timeline or that one... just do things the right way long enough and the wins will come. You need luck and you need it in multiple areas to get good enough to win a title. That should never stop you from building the right way with the right kinds of players.

Ill say it again... Williams, Dotson, Mudiay, Burke, Kornet, Hicks.. these are our scrap heap guys and I think this is an incredibly solid group of guys this FO has added with literally no cost.

Frank (lottery pick) and Timmy (cap space, flexibility) had cost. Those are moves that can be costly mistakes if they dont yield good players. That first group? Considering Williams, Dotson, Mudiay, Burke, Kornet and Hicks cost us nothing that strikes me as a really good group with a mix of usefulness and upside while all being young/cheap/coachable

It has not been a bad first season for this management at all. Very good IMO

I agree. But Dotson and Kornet were added by Phil Jackson.

Frank also but for what its worth they knew Phil was gone after the draft. If they let Phil go before the draft he becomes a risk so they kept him around. No way Mills lets Phil draft someone he's dead against (not that Mills is trustsworthy but he was in the mix). Phil drafted well. Im not a fan of the overly spirited debate over who gets credit (or blame) for what... Mills was here. Im not going to nitpick

Phil, Gaines and whom ever in on it.

We make it sound if "PHil picked him", its like dropping a toothbrush in the toliet!
Even if you boil to sanitize, its still tainted??
Since Phil took him, he is some how damaged goods?
"but he is triangle"!!! But he was never baptized "triangle" so it won't be hard to convert him right?
"But he is triangle"!!! Ok, what does that mean really? Jordan was a 5 year high volume scorer before he got "Triangled", then a god.
Kobe, young wild child, fought the triangle for years. Has 5 rings. None without the triangle.
Mooby, false Triangle god. No soup for Mooby!
Phil thought Frank can be the Triangle Alpha hybrid part PG, part Scotty pippen defending three positions, Part potential somthing less than Kobe/jordan, but still good???

and the man with 11 rings think this and we somehow think this is a bad thing? The kid is 19 and we label him as average. You know, at 19 and undeveloped, thats really not a bad label for now.

For the record, if you drop the toothbrush in a clean toliet and boil it, I might, but drop it in a brown toliet? Nope.'
For that matter (Pun intended), we don't have to validate the Triangle anymore, he is gone. We just validating the king of bling eye for talent.

Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
newyorknewyork
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2/27/2018  3:52 PM
fishmike wrote:
reub wrote:
fishmike wrote:Yup. Im not spinning over building with this timeline or that one... just do things the right way long enough and the wins will come. You need luck and you need it in multiple areas to get good enough to win a title. That should never stop you from building the right way with the right kinds of players.

Ill say it again... Williams, Dotson, Mudiay, Burke, Kornet, Hicks.. these are our scrap heap guys and I think this is an incredibly solid group of guys this FO has added with literally no cost.

Frank (lottery pick) and Timmy (cap space, flexibility) had cost. Those are moves that can be costly mistakes if they dont yield good players. That first group? Considering Williams, Dotson, Mudiay, Burke, Kornet and Hicks cost us nothing that strikes me as a really good group with a mix of usefulness and upside while all being young/cheap/coachable

It has not been a bad first season for this management at all. Very good IMO

I agree. But Dotson and Kornet were added by Phil Jackson.

Frank also but for what its worth they knew Phil was gone after the draft. If they let Phil go before the draft he becomes a risk so they kept him around. No way Mills lets Phil draft someone he's dead against (not that Mills is trustsworthy but he was in the mix). Phil drafted well. Im not a fan of the overly spirited debate over who gets credit (or blame) for what... Mills was here. Im not going to nitpick

Mills took the trip to France to scout Frank. He is the one who had to give Phil intel on Frank. I'm sure Gaines took trips as well being the head scout. They then give Phil the intel. If they didn't like Frank as a prospect then their scouting report show that.

We also know that Phil trust overly Gaines opinion based off the info we got from the KP draft. So it's hard to see a scenario where Gaines felt strongly against drafting a player like Frank. And Phil overriding him. Odds are higher that Gaines and possibly Mills *sold* Phil on Frank. Since they are the ones who actually traveled to France to scout him.

It's possible they also didn't know they were gonna fire Phil. As they fired Phil after he wanted to buyout or waive Melo and get nothing back for him. Don't know if that was clear at the draft. But I'm also pretty confident that if they knew they were gonna fire Melo. Dolan/Mills most likely trusted the Phil-Gaines combo to make the lotto pick after the KP success.

reub
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2/27/2018  4:33 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
fishmike wrote:
reub wrote:
fishmike wrote:Yup. Im not spinning over building with this timeline or that one... just do things the right way long enough and the wins will come. You need luck and you need it in multiple areas to get good enough to win a title. That should never stop you from building the right way with the right kinds of players.

Ill say it again... Williams, Dotson, Mudiay, Burke, Kornet, Hicks.. these are our scrap heap guys and I think this is an incredibly solid group of guys this FO has added with literally no cost.

Frank (lottery pick) and Timmy (cap space, flexibility) had cost. Those are moves that can be costly mistakes if they dont yield good players. That first group? Considering Williams, Dotson, Mudiay, Burke, Kornet and Hicks cost us nothing that strikes me as a really good group with a mix of usefulness and upside while all being young/cheap/coachable

It has not been a bad first season for this management at all. Very good IMO

I agree. But Dotson and Kornet were added by Phil Jackson.

Frank also but for what its worth they knew Phil was gone after the draft. If they let Phil go before the draft he becomes a risk so they kept him around. No way Mills lets Phil draft someone he's dead against (not that Mills is trustsworthy but he was in the mix). Phil drafted well. Im not a fan of the overly spirited debate over who gets credit (or blame) for what... Mills was here. Im not going to nitpick

Mills took the trip to France to scout Frank. He is the one who had to give Phil intel on Frank. I'm sure Gaines took trips as well being the head scout. They then give Phil the intel. If they didn't like Frank as a prospect then their scouting report show that.

We also know that Phil trust overly Gaines opinion based off the info we got from the KP draft. So it's hard to see a scenario where Gaines felt strongly against drafting a player like Frank. And Phil overriding him. Odds are higher that Gaines and possibly Mills *sold* Phil on Frank. Since they are the ones who actually traveled to France to scout him.

It's possible they also didn't know they were gonna fire Phil. As they fired Phil after he wanted to buyout or waive Melo and get nothing back for him. Don't know if that was clear at the draft. But I'm also pretty confident that if they knew they were gonna fire Melo. Dolan/Mills most likely trusted the Phil-Gaines combo to make the lotto pick after the KP success.


Is Gaines still working for us? I certainly hope so. I wish that we could put Phil and Gaines in charge of the next draft too.
LivingLegend
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2/27/2018  5:37 PM
smackeddog wrote:I think all your thread titles should be preceded with the word "Today"

Too Funny

I like all of our guards

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