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Game Thread: Knicks working the Magic in Orlando
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ScoreBot
2/22/2018  9:20 PM
FINAL
ORL 113 NYK 120
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Jmpasq
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2/22/2018  9:24 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/22/2018  9:24 PM
I hate this franchise, will end up finishing 12th
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nixluva
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2/22/2018  9:34 PM
Jeff was straight up trying to win this game. That's just the reality of the situation. Players will play hard for the sake of their careers and coaches will try to win for the same reason, UNLESS they get the order from the top to call off the dogs. They'll win a few games like this.

Burke was always capable of doing this and only Jeff held him back. Frank showing why you need to let him play thru mistakes. Troy flashed his athletic ability on drives and defense!!! Some good things.

blkexec
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2/22/2018  9:48 PM
nixluva wrote:Jeff was straight up trying to win this game. That's just the reality of the situation. Players will play hard for the sake of their careers and coaches will try to win for the same reason, UNLESS they get the order from the top to call off the dogs. They'll win a few games like this.

Burke was always capable of doing this and only Jeff held him back. Frank showing why you need to let him play thru mistakes. Troy flashed his athletic ability on drives and defense!!! Some good things.

Thats one of my concerns with JH. I havent seen any clear evidence of his player development. Which then makes me question how he's handling Frank. Is he the right coach for a young team? Or better suited for a veteran team? Which I think is a better match. Mark Jackson would be a good coach for a PG heavy team.

Q: What is the difference between a Knicks fan and a baby? A: The baby will stop whining after awhile.
CrushAlot
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2/22/2018  9:50 PM
nixluva wrote:Jeff was straight up trying to win this game. That's just the reality of the situation. Players will play hard for the sake of their careers and coaches will try to win for the same reason, UNLESS they get the order from the top to call off the dogs. They'll win a few games like this.

Burke was always capable of doing this and only Jeff held him back. Frank showing why you need to let him play thru mistakes. Troy flashed his athletic ability on drives and defense!!! Some good things.


Agree on all points, especially about Burke. Not sure why Jeff wasn't giving him minutes.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
elmaestro33
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2/22/2018  9:51 PM
This game tells me two things: 1) Trey should have been our starting pg for the last month and 2) WTF!!! we’re absolutely going to screw this tank job. We’re literally playing for nothing except lotto balls and we decide to beat another key tanking team. We’re doomed to pick 10.
Panos
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2/22/2018  10:03 PM
Jmpasq wrote:I hate this franchise, will end up finishing 12th

+1

Cartman718
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2/22/2018  10:54 PM
i think we will win some right...? no one is expecting us to be overall #1 pickers. we will probably have a similar pick # to last year. honestly i like the fact that jack didn't play and lee played less and kanter played less.

the kids played more and the burke burst...wow.
as long as the kids are playing we will have our share of losses. i mean the magic do have only 18 wins for the season. if someone on this forum is expecting 3rd quarters like the one seen today every time with the kids playing 25+ mins, its not going to happen.

and if it does...hey more power to them. just better development for next year.

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
Cartman718
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2/22/2018  10:55 PM
there is no nba team other than the mavs claiming to lose deliberately.
Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
nixluva
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2/22/2018  11:00 PM
Cartman718 wrote:i think we will win some right...? no one is expecting us to be overall #1 pickers. we will probably have a similar pick # to last year. honestly i like the fact that jack didn't play and lee played less and kanter played less.

the kids played more and the burke burst...wow.
as long as the kids are playing we will have our share of losses. i mean the magic do have only 18 wins for the season. if someone on this forum is expecting 3rd quarters like the one seen today every time with the kids playing 25+ mins, its not going to happen.

and if it does...hey more power to them. just better development for next year.


Knicks played the kids and they played well and won HONESTLY. You can't be mad at the fact that the kids actually played well enough to beat a bad team. The Knicks were never going to go winless the rest of the way. We need talent but we also have to develop talent we have and get a good look at guys to see if they deserve to stick.
Kemet
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2/23/2018  12:34 AM
Cartman718 wrote:there is no nba team other than the mavs claiming to lose deliberately.


SO TRUE !!!

smackeddog
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2/23/2018  4:01 AM
Panos wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:I hate this franchise, will end up finishing 12th

+1

Knicksfan
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2/23/2018  4:58 AM
I wanted this loss as much as everybody here, but you can't honestly be mad when they win by playing the youth and it's actually possibly good pickups like Burke, Williams, Mudiay, Frank and THJr leading the way. As much as we need the hight pick, and we do, we need to find diamonds in the rough and Burke and Williams might prove to be that.

Bonus points for Jack playing nothing. We might actually try out somebody else with either his spot or Hicks'.

Knicks_Fan
Jmpasq
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2/23/2018  5:19 AM
Knicksfan wrote:I wanted this loss as much as everybody here, but you can't honestly be mad when they win by playing the youth and it's actually possibly good pickups like Burke, Williams, Mudiay, Frank and THJr leading the way. As much as we need the hight pick, and we do, we need to find diamonds in the rough and Burke and Williams might prove to be that.

Bonus points for Jack playing nothing. We might actually try out somebody else with either his spot or Hicks'.

diamonds in the rough won't change the franchises fortunes, only stars do that. I'm frustrated because this season should of been a tank job from the start. I feel like we will forever be doomed to 30 wins and the 8th pick

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Knicksfan
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2/23/2018  8:07 AM
Jmpasq wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:I wanted this loss as much as everybody here, but you can't honestly be mad when they win by playing the youth and it's actually possibly good pickups like Burke, Williams, Mudiay, Frank and THJr leading the way. As much as we need the hight pick, and we do, we need to find diamonds in the rough and Burke and Williams might prove to be that.

Bonus points for Jack playing nothing. We might actually try out somebody else with either his spot or Hicks'.

diamonds in the rough won't change the franchises fortunes, only stars do that. I'm frustrated because this season should of been a tank job from the start. I feel like we will forever be doomed to 30 wins and the 8th pick

Of course any team that doesn't expect to make the playoffs would like to have tanked from the start. We never had the worst team ever from the start, especially with Porzingis playing out of his mind, so its understandable we aren't going to be in the top three for the draft unless a miracle happens. Thats ok. Why?

Where you are mistaken is in the fact that we DO need as much talent as possible. With another probable lottery pick, we will have good players to chose from. Stars? Yes we need them, but we are a young team which could already have one in the books (unicorn anyone?) and other solid pieces to build around.

Most teams have at least one star. What contending teams do have over the rest is that they have LOTS of talent. They go to the bench and they get good play. So yeah, finding diamonds in the rough IS important, especially if they are talents that are coming to their own at the right time.

Burke, Williams and Mudaiy could be that and even if they aren't stars, getting solid role players from them would be a total win fr our future.

Knicks_Fan
smackeddog
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2/23/2018  11:49 AM
Knicksfan wrote:I wanted this loss as much as everybody here, but you can't honestly be mad when they win by playing the youth and it's actually possibly good pickups like Burke, Williams, Mudiay, Frank and THJr leading the way. As much as we need the hight pick, and we do, we need to find diamonds in the rough and Burke and Williams might prove to be that.

Bonus points for Jack playing nothing. We might actually try out somebody else with either his spot or Hicks'.

You can when you look at this:

http://www.tankathon.com

KnickDanger
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2/23/2018  2:02 PM
I just want to get this straight from those who are bent out of shape over last night's win. I get you are disappointed. But what could have been done differently? should Knicks players have put the ball in the other team's basket? Or stood still when the Magic were on offense (looked that way early on btw)?

smackeddog wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:I wanted this loss as much as everybody here, but you can't honestly be mad when they win by playing the youth and it's actually possibly good pickups like Burke, Williams, Mudiay, Frank and THJr leading the way. As much as we need the hight pick, and we do, we need to find diamonds in the rough and Burke and Williams might prove to be that.

Bonus points for Jack playing nothing. We might actually try out somebody else with either his spot or Hicks'.

You can when you look at this:

http://www.tankathon.com

Mike1989
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2/23/2018  3:51 PM
elmaestro33 wrote:This game tells me two things: 1) Trey should have been our starting pg for the last month and 2) WTF!!! we’re absolutely going to screw this tank job. We’re literally playing for nothing except lotto balls and we decide to beat another key tanking team. We’re doomed to pick 10.

Agreed, I think Trey should have been starting for us a while back. He is 25 years old and could still have a future in this league as a starting PG in the right situation. As nice as it is to have a veteran like Jarrett Jack, realistically he should have been traded before the deadline for whatever we could get in return to free up minutes for Burke and Frank.

As for the second point, I don't think you can blame them last night for winning the game. The Knicks were consistent throughout the game and that shows on the box score: 31, 32, 30, 27. The difference with Orlando is they started hot in the first quarter (41) and played pretty well in the second quarter (28), then remembered they were tanking in the second half and their production fell (21 and 23) but also our defense turned up. So the difficulty last night was that our team played consistent basketball all night whereas Orlando didn't, the only way you can change that is if you bench players like Burke, Hardaway and Kanter for the fringe players. The problem with that is approach is it removes the incentive for players to get too hot or play too hard because they would get benched, so they might tone back their performances to stay on the court and that hurts the team's evaluation process because we don't get to see what they can really do. For me, the Knicks handled things correctly last night by letting the players play. If the team wants to lose games then they need to bench difference making players during key stretches, and they could also benefit from doing what Sacramento do and that's rest a couple of veteran players each night (e.g. one night Lee and Kanter player, with Hardaway and Beasley sitting) and that could reduce some of our scoring potential and help us lose more games, but the counterpoint to that would be it could send the wrong message to our players.

Regarding our draft pick. It will be incredibly difficult for us to increase our odds and get in front of some teams in the tanking race. Currently there are six teams tied on 18 wins, one team on 19 wins and they send their pick to Cleveland, one team on 20 wins, one team on 23 wins and they send their pick to Philly, and then us on 24 wins. Now I think there is a good chance we can finish with a worse record than the Lakers because they are actually trying to win games. We might be able to finish ahead of Chicago if their "big three" (Dunn, Lavine, Markkanen) take the next step but they benched two veteran starters last night for younger players. And maybe we can get ahead of the Nets as well since they have no incentive to lose games with their pick heading to Cleveland. However, unless we lose on purpose in all of our remaining games, I am not convinced we can boost our odds significantly more than being the 9th or 10th team.

nixluva wrote:Jeff was straight up trying to win this game. That's just the reality of the situation. Players will play hard for the sake of their careers and coaches will try to win for the same reason, UNLESS they get the order from the top to call off the dogs. They'll win a few games like this.

Burke was always capable of doing this and only Jeff held him back. Frank showing why you need to let him play thru mistakes. Troy flashed his athletic ability on drives and defense!!! Some good things.

The question I have is if Hornacek benches Burke during his hot streak, does that remove the incentive from Burke trying as much as he did last night? For example, if he knows that knocking down a trio of three pointers and getting a turnover on the defensive end is going to get him benched, does he pass up one of those shots, perhaps two of those shots because he wants to stay on the court or does he take them and get benched? It might hurt the evaluation process of certain players because they might in Burke's case decide to pass the ball to someone else rather than take a shot they know they can make. Perhaps I'm overthinking, but if players have too much success in a tank, they are going to get benched far quicker than if the team is letting them play.

nixluva wrote:Knicks played the kids and they played well and won HONESTLY. You can't be mad at the fact that the kids actually played well enough to beat a bad team. The Knicks were never going to go winless the rest of the way. We need talent but we also have to develop talent we have and get a good look at guys to see if they deserve to stick.

Agreed, I think the Knicks handled things correctly last night. Let the players play and prove whether they have a future on this team long term or not. Realistically we are unlikely to get ahead of the six teams currently tied on 18 wins, and I am not convinced that we are going to have a worse win loss record than the Nets, Bulls and Lakers. We might get in front of the Lakers because they are trying to win, but the other two might stay in front of us. I would say we are more likely to have the 9th or 10th best odds than the 7th or better odds in the lottery. So let the players play so they can be evaluated on what they do, I would say that is better than benching them when they get hot, or having rest nights.

Gudris
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2/23/2018  4:54 PM
But what about playoffs ? we still have a chance
Zebo13
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2/24/2018  10:08 AM
Charlotte is the only team that might pass us. Let’s just play the young players and let the chips fall where they may.
Game Thread: Knicks working the Magic in Orlando

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