[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Mudiay our new starting point guard?
Author Thread
martin
Posts: 47316
Alba Posts: 106
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
2/22/2018  1:02 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:When you look at the things Frank could potentially bring to the table. Him becoming successful would be huge for the Knicks.

I want you guys to really sit back and think about what Frank could potentially do and be for the Knicks if he were to be successful. Also need to stop looking at Frank as just a PG. He is a dude that could possibly play 3 positions. And have a decent all-around game. And he will be developed as such either for us or another team. They want him to develop more PG skills now as part of his development so that he has those skills even if he is playing 2 or 3. That they could run Frank out there down the road with 2 SGs or 2 Forwards and go real big. while letting him handle the rock.

NBA is going to evolve more towards positionless bball. With freaks of nature playing all type of different positions and roles. We either become innovate ourselves or we get left behind.

It's ok to wait for frank to develop if you have legit starters on your roster. If the knicks can move up in the draft and NAB a NBA ready wing, you have to sacrifice frank and the current 1st round..

lol, uh no

jesus, your in love with this kid, are you related?

No I'm laughing at your absurd suggestions

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
AUTOADVERT
knicks1248
Posts: 37231
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
2/22/2018  1:19 PM
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:When you look at the things Frank could potentially bring to the table. Him becoming successful would be huge for the Knicks.

I want you guys to really sit back and think about what Frank could potentially do and be for the Knicks if he were to be successful. Also need to stop looking at Frank as just a PG. He is a dude that could possibly play 3 positions. And have a decent all-around game. And he will be developed as such either for us or another team. They want him to develop more PG skills now as part of his development so that he has those skills even if he is playing 2 or 3. That they could run Frank out there down the road with 2 SGs or 2 Forwards and go real big. while letting him handle the rock.

NBA is going to evolve more towards positionless bball. With freaks of nature playing all type of different positions and roles. We either become innovate ourselves or we get left behind.

It's ok to wait for frank to develop if you have legit starters on your roster. If the knicks can move up in the draft and NAB a NBA ready wing, you have to sacrifice frank and the current 1st round..

lol, uh no

jesus, your in love with this kid, are you related?

No I'm laughing at your absurd suggestions

Mudaiy and payton just got traded for 2nd rnd picks and mcdermott, both are better than Frank.

so Your right, it is absurd to think a team would give up a high 1st rounder for frank

ES
EnySpree
Posts: 44729
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

2/22/2018  1:55 PM
Vmart wrote:
martin wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Alot of you guys seem to love Frank's career more than the Knicks success.... that's highly troubling

Guy who loves to move the ball and make his teammates better and is capable of elite defense.

And you keep saying he is a failure. THAT is troubling.

Now that I think about it’s better to start Mudiay it’s good for the tank. Ntlikina actually plays winning brand of basketball. Which might push the Knicks back in the draft order.

That's just not true and proves my point. Frank plays a winning brand of basketball? Just say you really like Frank above the Knicks as a team. It's better than saying stupid things like this. If he played a winning brand we'd be winning.... cue the +/- Stan with the research smdh

You know why I'm here....
martin
Posts: 47316
Alba Posts: 106
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
2/22/2018  1:58 PM
EnySpree wrote:
Vmart wrote:
martin wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Alot of you guys seem to love Frank's career more than the Knicks success.... that's highly troubling

Guy who loves to move the ball and make his teammates better and is capable of elite defense.

And you keep saying he is a failure. THAT is troubling.

Now that I think about it’s better to start Mudiay it’s good for the tank. Ntlikina actually plays winning brand of basketball. Which might push the Knicks back in the draft order.

That's just not true and proves my point. Frank plays a winning brand of basketball? Just say you really like Frank above the Knicks as a team. It's better than saying stupid things like this. If he played a winning brand we'd be winning.... cue the +/- Stan with the research smdh

so any player who is on a bad team doesn't play a winning brand of basketball?

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
EnySpree
Posts: 44729
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

2/22/2018  1:59 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Alot of you guys seem to love Frank's career more than the Knicks success.... that's highly troubling

Guy who loves to move the ball and make his teammates better and is capable of elite defense.

And you keep saying he is a failure. THAT is troubling.

Frank has the potential to be that player. I do wonder though if some posters would be as vociferous in their defense of a so-so season, if Frank was a pick of another regime?

What has been frustrating for me as a fan watching Frank is that the minutes have been there all season, and the needle really hasnt moved as far as elevating his game.

Wouldnt call it a big red flag, but a um..normal sized red flag. If Frank had been given sporadic minutes here and there, the lack of progress would be more understandable. Some of if might have to do with a nagging injury.

Really hope Frank looks at the starting PGs in this league, and tries to emulate what makes them elite. Wouldnt be suprised if the Knicks draft another PG as a plan B.

This whole debate is tired. You can't say a guy is something when he clearly isn't. You night think he could be and that's fine... but when it starts to spill into something that takes away from a team we all been following for decades them we have a problem. This is an embarrassing discussion.

You know why I'm here....
EnySpree
Posts: 44729
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

2/22/2018  2:11 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/22/2018  2:15 PM
martin wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
Vmart wrote:
martin wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Alot of you guys seem to love Frank's career more than the Knicks success.... that's highly troubling

Guy who loves to move the ball and make his teammates better and is capable of elite defense.

And you keep saying he is a failure. THAT is troubling.

Now that I think about it’s better to start Mudiay it’s good for the tank. Ntlikina actually plays winning brand of basketball. Which might push the Knicks back in the draft order.

That's just not true and proves my point. Frank plays a winning brand of basketball? Just say you really like Frank above the Knicks as a team. It's better than saying stupid things like this. If he played a winning brand we'd be winning.... cue the +/- Stan with the research smdh

so any player who is on a bad team doesn't play a winning brand of basketball?

I'm not playing that game. I never said any of that. I'm saying the kid sucks. Can he get better yeah.... the problem I have is alot of posters here seen to think playing him over players that are playing better is tge right thing to do. Frank is 19 he was raw and a project yada yadda... raw projects belong in the g league. People here go hard saying Mudiay didn't belong in the league but he averaged 12/5 and 11/5 his first 2 seasons. Frank had 59 games of opportunity and he's not even close to that. He's not even half of that.... but Frank plays a winning style of basketball? Willing passer? Where is the proof? He might have hit the wall... but under that criteria it process he doesn't belong in the nba... maybe next year. You dont give up on a 19 year old.... but if Mudiay plays well enough to keep the starting spot... we should still bench Mudiay based on hope? We should start Frank and Mudiay and bench better players? This isn't the new York Franks

You know why I'm here....
Uptown
Posts: 26541
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 4/1/2008
Member: #1883

2/22/2018  2:31 PM
EnySpree wrote:
Vmart wrote:
martin wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Alot of you guys seem to love Frank's career more than the Knicks success.... that's highly troubling

Guy who loves to move the ball and make his teammates better and is capable of elite defense.

And you keep saying he is a failure. THAT is troubling.

Now that I think about it’s better to start Mudiay it’s good for the tank. Ntlikina actually plays winning brand of basketball. Which might push the Knicks back in the draft order.

That's just not true and proves my point. Frank plays a winning brand of basketball? Just say you really like Frank above the Knicks as a team. It's better than saying stupid things like this. If he played a winning brand we'd be winning.... cue the +/- Stan with the research smdh

LOL

BigDaddyG
Posts: 25760
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 1/22/2010
Member: #3049

2/22/2018  2:40 PM
EnySpree wrote:
Vmart wrote:
martin wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Alot of you guys seem to love Frank's career more than the Knicks success.... that's highly troubling

Guy who loves to move the ball and make his teammates better and is capable of elite defense.

And you keep saying he is a failure. THAT is troubling.

Now that I think about it’s better to start Mudiay it’s good for the tank. Ntlikina actually plays winning brand of basketball. Which might push the Knicks back in the draft order.

That's just not true and proves my point. Frank plays a winning brand of basketball? Just say you really like Frank above the Knicks as a team. It's better than saying stupid things like this. If he played a winning brand we'd be winning.... cue the +/- Stan with the research smdh


I would but it's pointless. Frank is a rookie. Mudiay has had three-year to prove that he sucks. Will he get better? Hope so. But really, Mudiay is on the hot seat more than Frank at this point. If he doesn't show flashes his extension will be declined and who knows what happens from there. You see the flash, but many people see a guy who doesn't play winning basketball yet, if ever. You say it's case of the Nuggets choosing Murray over Mudiay. Really, they chose ancient Devin Harris over Mudiay. We have two prospects. Let them play and figure it out later.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
EnySpree
Posts: 44729
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

2/22/2018  3:11 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/22/2018  3:38 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
Vmart wrote:
martin wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Alot of you guys seem to love Frank's career more than the Knicks success.... that's highly troubling

Guy who loves to move the ball and make his teammates better and is capable of elite defense.

And you keep saying he is a failure. THAT is troubling.

Now that I think about it’s better to start Mudiay it’s good for the tank. Ntlikina actually plays winning brand of basketball. Which might push the Knicks back in the draft order.

That's just not true and proves my point. Frank plays a winning brand of basketball? Just say you really like Frank above the Knicks as a team. It's better than saying stupid things like this. If he played a winning brand we'd be winning.... cue the +/- Stan with the research smdh


I would but it's pointless. Frank is a rookie. Mudiay has had three-year to prove that he sucks. Will he get better? Hope so. But really, Mudiay is on the hot seat more than Frank at this point. If he doesn't show flashes his extension will be declined and who knows what happens from there. You see the flash, but many people see a guy who doesn't play winning basketball yet, if ever. You say it's case of the Nuggets choosing Murray over Mudiay. Really, they chose ancient Devin Harris over Mudiay. We have two prospects. Let them play and figure it out later.

Mudiay doesn't play winning basketball but Frank does.... ok got it

By the way can we say the Knicks chose another teams throw away to be the point over the winning basketball player we have in Frank?

You know why I'm here....
GustavBahler
Posts: 34204
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

2/22/2018  3:39 PM
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Alot of you guys seem to love Frank's career more than the Knicks success.... that's highly troubling

Guy who loves to move the ball and make his teammates better and is capable of elite defense.

And you keep saying he is a failure. THAT is troubling.

Frank has the potential to be that player. I do wonder though if some posters would be as vociferous in their defense of a so-so season, if Frank was a pick of another regime?

You are suggesting that our opinion of a player is influenced by WHO picked the player? That's quite shocking to me. Love Phil so much that someone's opinion of Frank is skewed or influenced? Not me anyway.

GustavBahler wrote:What has been frustrating for me as a fan watching Frank is that the minutes have been there all season, and the needle really hasnt moved as far as elevating his game.

Wouldnt call it a big red flag, but a um..normal sized red flag. If Frank had been given sporadic minutes here and there, the lack of progress would be more understandable. Some of if might have to do with a nagging injury.

Really hope Frank looks at the starting PGs in this league, and tries to emulate what makes them elite. Wouldnt be suprised if the Knicks draft another PG as a plan B.

So, one question for you: Of the rookies in the lottery this past year, which players have moved the needle across the span of the year? And of those, how have the lower aged ones fared?

How did KP fare his first year?

Knicks didn't draft Ben Simmons type player.

So you are saying that the Andy Williams room, in a certain hotel in Branson MO. A meeting of certain Knicks forumenati with representatives of Phil Jackson's team to protect Frank from criticism, to pave the way for Phil's return to the
top of the Knicks pyramid,or should I say.....TRIANGLE? You say this meeting never happened??


As for my standards as a fan for Frank. Just want him to come out of this season playing like he has learned something from week 1. I havent seen enough growth in his game to say that. Wish I could. Still time this season to apply some of the things, he should have a better understanding of now. Like picking your moments. Mark of a heads up player.

newyorknewyork
Posts: 27795
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
2/22/2018  4:23 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Alot of you guys seem to love Frank's career more than the Knicks success.... that's highly troubling

Guy who loves to move the ball and make his teammates better and is capable of elite defense.

And you keep saying he is a failure. THAT is troubling.

Frank has the potential to be that player. I do wonder though if some posters would be as vociferous in their defense of a so-so season, if Frank was a pick of another regime?

You are suggesting that our opinion of a player is influenced by WHO picked the player? That's quite shocking to me. Love Phil so much that someone's opinion of Frank is skewed or influenced? Not me anyway.

GustavBahler wrote:What has been frustrating for me as a fan watching Frank is that the minutes have been there all season, and the needle really hasnt moved as far as elevating his game.

Wouldnt call it a big red flag, but a um..normal sized red flag. If Frank had been given sporadic minutes here and there, the lack of progress would be more understandable. Some of if might have to do with a nagging injury.

Really hope Frank looks at the starting PGs in this league, and tries to emulate what makes them elite. Wouldnt be suprised if the Knicks draft another PG as a plan B.

So, one question for you: Of the rookies in the lottery this past year, which players have moved the needle across the span of the year? And of those, how have the lower aged ones fared?

How did KP fare his first year?

Knicks didn't draft Ben Simmons type player.

So you are saying that the Andy Williams room, in a certain hotel in Branson MO. A meeting of certain Knicks forumenati with representatives of Phil Jackson's team to protect Frank from criticism, to pave the way for Phil's return to the
top of the Knicks pyramid,or should I say.....TRIANGLE? You say this meeting never happened??


As for my standards as a fan for Frank. Just want him to come out of this season playing like he has learned something from week 1. I havent seen enough growth in his game to say that. Wish I could. Still time this season to apply some of the things, he should have a better understanding of now. Like picking your moments. Mark of a heads up player.

Most rookies have been protected by critique their rookie yr honestly. Fans have always been will g to trade them. But they usually have let rooks get their lumps in before trashing them. Gallinari missed his entire rookie yr and after initial backlash of the pick being a community pick. Which we passed up Anthony Randolph for him. The board was relatively supportive. Jordan Hill was taken over Derozan and while he was traded away mid season. I don't remember to much whining about Hill. Mike Sweetney was given a pass his rookie yr. And he was fat and lazy.

Frank has gotten the most post made about him as a rookie critiqing his game since I don't even know. Most likely due to being a lotto PG in NY. Expectations are at a different level toward the PG position in NY.

GustavBahler
Posts: 34204
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

2/22/2018  5:35 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Alot of you guys seem to love Frank's career more than the Knicks success.... that's highly troubling

Guy who loves to move the ball and make his teammates better and is capable of elite defense.

And you keep saying he is a failure. THAT is troubling.

Frank has the potential to be that player. I do wonder though if some posters would be as vociferous in their defense of a so-so season, if Frank was a pick of another regime?

You are suggesting that our opinion of a player is influenced by WHO picked the player? That's quite shocking to me. Love Phil so much that someone's opinion of Frank is skewed or influenced? Not me anyway.

GustavBahler wrote:What has been frustrating for me as a fan watching Frank is that the minutes have been there all season, and the needle really hasnt moved as far as elevating his game.

Wouldnt call it a big red flag, but a um..normal sized red flag. If Frank had been given sporadic minutes here and there, the lack of progress would be more understandable. Some of if might have to do with a nagging injury.

Really hope Frank looks at the starting PGs in this league, and tries to emulate what makes them elite. Wouldnt be suprised if the Knicks draft another PG as a plan B.

So, one question for you: Of the rookies in the lottery this past year, which players have moved the needle across the span of the year? And of those, how have the lower aged ones fared?

How did KP fare his first year?

Knicks didn't draft Ben Simmons type player.

So you are saying that the Andy Williams room, in a certain hotel in Branson MO. A meeting of certain Knicks forumenati with representatives of Phil Jackson's team to protect Frank from criticism, to pave the way for Phil's return to the
top of the Knicks pyramid,or should I say.....TRIANGLE? You say this meeting never happened??


As for my standards as a fan for Frank. Just want him to come out of this season playing like he has learned something from week 1. I havent seen enough growth in his game to say that. Wish I could. Still time this season to apply some of the things, he should have a better understanding of now. Like picking your moments. Mark of a heads up player.

Most rookies have been protected by critique their rookie yr honestly. Fans have always been will g to trade them. But they usually have let rooks get their lumps in before trashing them. Gallinari missed his entire rookie yr and after initial backlash of the pick being a community pick. Which we passed up Anthony Randolph for him. The board was relatively supportive. Jordan Hill was taken over Derozan and while he was traded away mid season. I don't remember to much whining about Hill. Mike Sweetney was given a pass his rookie yr. And he was fat and lazy.

Frank has gotten the most post made about him as a rookie critiqing his game since I don't even know. Most likely due to being a lotto PG in NY. Expectations are at a different level toward the PG position in NY.

Dont remember posters taking the criticism of a rook's game so personally. This was supposed to be a pick who would be a good fit with a budding star in KP. Frank looks like he was picked to be a good fit with a system, not a player, or players.

So far havent seen enough to prove otherwise. Will feel better about this pick when I do.

CrushAlot
Posts: 56545
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
2/22/2018  5:48 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Alot of you guys seem to love Frank's career more than the Knicks success.... that's highly troubling

Guy who loves to move the ball and make his teammates better and is capable of elite defense.

And you keep saying he is a failure. THAT is troubling.

Frank has the potential to be that player. I do wonder though if some posters would be as vociferous in their defense of a so-so season, if Frank was a pick of another regime?

You are suggesting that our opinion of a player is influenced by WHO picked the player? That's quite shocking to me. Love Phil so much that someone's opinion of Frank is skewed or influenced? Not me anyway.

GustavBahler wrote:What has been frustrating for me as a fan watching Frank is that the minutes have been there all season, and the needle really hasnt moved as far as elevating his game.

Wouldnt call it a big red flag, but a um..normal sized red flag. If Frank had been given sporadic minutes here and there, the lack of progress would be more understandable. Some of if might have to do with a nagging injury.

Really hope Frank looks at the starting PGs in this league, and tries to emulate what makes them elite. Wouldnt be suprised if the Knicks draft another PG as a plan B.

So, one question for you: Of the rookies in the lottery this past year, which players have moved the needle across the span of the year? And of those, how have the lower aged ones fared?

How did KP fare his first year?

Knicks didn't draft Ben Simmons type player.

So you are saying that the Andy Williams room, in a certain hotel in Branson MO. A meeting of certain Knicks forumenati with representatives of Phil Jackson's team to protect Frank from criticism, to pave the way for Phil's return to the
top of the Knicks pyramid,or should I say.....TRIANGLE? You say this meeting never happened??


As for my standards as a fan for Frank. Just want him to come out of this season playing like he has learned something from week 1. I havent seen enough growth in his game to say that. Wish I could. Still time this season to apply some of the things, he should have a better understanding of now. Like picking your moments. Mark of a heads up player.

Most rookies have been protected by critique their rookie yr honestly. Fans have always been will g to trade them. But they usually have let rooks get their lumps in before trashing them. Gallinari missed his entire rookie yr and after initial backlash of the pick being a community pick. Which we passed up Anthony Randolph for him. The board was relatively supportive. Jordan Hill was taken over Derozan and while he was traded away mid season. I don't remember to much whining about Hill. Mike Sweetney was given a pass his rookie yr. And he was fat and lazy.

Frank has gotten the most post made about him as a rookie critiqing his game since I don't even know. Most likely due to being a lotto PG in NY. Expectations are at a different level toward the PG position in NY.

Dont remember posters taking the criticism of a rook's game so personally. This was supposed to be a pick who would be a good fit with a budding star in KP. Frank looks like he was picked to be a good fit with a system, not a player, or players.

So far havent seen enough to prove otherwise. Will feel better about this pick when I do.

This.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
EnySpree
Posts: 44729
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

2/22/2018  6:01 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Alot of you guys seem to love Frank's career more than the Knicks success.... that's highly troubling

Guy who loves to move the ball and make his teammates better and is capable of elite defense.

And you keep saying he is a failure. THAT is troubling.

Frank has the potential to be that player. I do wonder though if some posters would be as vociferous in their defense of a so-so season, if Frank was a pick of another regime?

You are suggesting that our opinion of a player is influenced by WHO picked the player? That's quite shocking to me. Love Phil so much that someone's opinion of Frank is skewed or influenced? Not me anyway.

GustavBahler wrote:What has been frustrating for me as a fan watching Frank is that the minutes have been there all season, and the needle really hasnt moved as far as elevating his game.

Wouldnt call it a big red flag, but a um..normal sized red flag. If Frank had been given sporadic minutes here and there, the lack of progress would be more understandable. Some of if might have to do with a nagging injury.

Really hope Frank looks at the starting PGs in this league, and tries to emulate what makes them elite. Wouldnt be suprised if the Knicks draft another PG as a plan B.

So, one question for you: Of the rookies in the lottery this past year, which players have moved the needle across the span of the year? And of those, how have the lower aged ones fared?

How did KP fare his first year?

Knicks didn't draft Ben Simmons type player.

So you are saying that the Andy Williams room, in a certain hotel in Branson MO. A meeting of certain Knicks forumenati with representatives of Phil Jackson's team to protect Frank from criticism, to pave the way for Phil's return to the
top of the Knicks pyramid,or should I say.....TRIANGLE? You say this meeting never happened??


As for my standards as a fan for Frank. Just want him to come out of this season playing like he has learned something from week 1. I havent seen enough growth in his game to say that. Wish I could. Still time this season to apply some of the things, he should have a better understanding of now. Like picking your moments. Mark of a heads up player.

Most rookies have been protected by critique their rookie yr honestly. Fans have always been will g to trade them. But they usually have let rooks get their lumps in before trashing them. Gallinari missed his entire rookie yr and after initial backlash of the pick being a community pick. Which we passed up Anthony Randolph for him. The board was relatively supportive. Jordan Hill was taken over Derozan and while he was traded away mid season. I don't remember to much whining about Hill. Mike Sweetney was given a pass his rookie yr. And he was fat and lazy.

Frank has gotten the most post made about him as a rookie critiqing his game since I don't even know. Most likely due to being a lotto PG in NY. Expectations are at a different level toward the PG position in NY.

Dont remember posters taking the criticism of a rook's game so personally. This was supposed to be a pick who would be a good fit with a budding star in KP. Frank looks like he was picked to be a good fit with a system, not a player, or players.

So far havent seen enough to prove otherwise. Will feel better about this pick when I do.

This.

This plus that

You know why I'm here....
newyorknewyork
Posts: 27795
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
2/22/2018  8:22 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Alot of you guys seem to love Frank's career more than the Knicks success.... that's highly troubling

Guy who loves to move the ball and make his teammates better and is capable of elite defense.

And you keep saying he is a failure. THAT is troubling.

Frank has the potential to be that player. I do wonder though if some posters would be as vociferous in their defense of a so-so season, if Frank was a pick of another regime?

You are suggesting that our opinion of a player is influenced by WHO picked the player? That's quite shocking to me. Love Phil so much that someone's opinion of Frank is skewed or influenced? Not me anyway.

GustavBahler wrote:What has been frustrating for me as a fan watching Frank is that the minutes have been there all season, and the needle really hasnt moved as far as elevating his game.

Wouldnt call it a big red flag, but a um..normal sized red flag. If Frank had been given sporadic minutes here and there, the lack of progress would be more understandable. Some of if might have to do with a nagging injury.

Really hope Frank looks at the starting PGs in this league, and tries to emulate what makes them elite. Wouldnt be suprised if the Knicks draft another PG as a plan B.

So, one question for you: Of the rookies in the lottery this past year, which players have moved the needle across the span of the year? And of those, how have the lower aged ones fared?

How did KP fare his first year?

Knicks didn't draft Ben Simmons type player.

So you are saying that the Andy Williams room, in a certain hotel in Branson MO. A meeting of certain Knicks forumenati with representatives of Phil Jackson's team to protect Frank from criticism, to pave the way for Phil's return to the
top of the Knicks pyramid,or should I say.....TRIANGLE? You say this meeting never happened??


As for my standards as a fan for Frank. Just want him to come out of this season playing like he has learned something from week 1. I havent seen enough growth in his game to say that. Wish I could. Still time this season to apply some of the things, he should have a better understanding of now. Like picking your moments. Mark of a heads up player.

Most rookies have been protected by critique their rookie yr honestly. Fans have always been will g to trade them. But they usually have let rooks get their lumps in before trashing them. Gallinari missed his entire rookie yr and after initial backlash of the pick being a community pick. Which we passed up Anthony Randolph for him. The board was relatively supportive. Jordan Hill was taken over Derozan and while he was traded away mid season. I don't remember to much whining about Hill. Mike Sweetney was given a pass his rookie yr. And he was fat and lazy.

Frank has gotten the most post made about him as a rookie critiqing his game since I don't even know. Most likely due to being a lotto PG in NY. Expectations are at a different level toward the PG position in NY.

Dont remember posters taking the criticism of a rook's game so personally. This was supposed to be a pick who would be a good fit with a budding star in KP. Frank looks like he was picked to be a good fit with a system, not a player, or players.

So far havent seen enough to prove otherwise. Will feel better about this pick when I do.

Hmm interesting. Maybe the idea that people are taking the critique personally sparks more post to be made about him making him polarizing. I will say a lot of the dialogue has turned more into dick measuring contest though.

Can't speak for everyone.

If you notice I don't really get into debating critique of his game. Everyone can see that he needs work. I'm not upset that Mudiay is starting over him or If Burke ends up getting more mins than him and he ends up having to sit. They all play for the Knicks, who ever earns it earns it imo. Go back and read the thread. There was no backlash for the decision by any fans. Only when Jmpasq stated that he feels they will move Frank in the offseason did any real debate get formed. Then when Eny stated that fans root for Franks success over the Knicks.

You could see how those 2 statements can start debate correct? Then when those statements land the obvious reactions. It becomes about being emotionally attached. When in the reality I believe ideals are what are being fought over more so then the player. I also don't believe the book is closed on Mudiay even though he has played 3 yrs. There are players who took many seasons and different teams until they molded themselves into the players they needed to be. But thats up to Mudiay and his work ethic, for Dougie I love the move.

Ive already broken down plenty of times my viewpoint of Frank with the Knicks. So I am sure we are all aware of where I stand and my reasoning. Even my first comments in this thread was about what I have been reading towards how the Knicks are going to move. As as we speak Jack has yet to play this game vs Orlando while Mudiay, Burke, & Frank all have gotten mins.

Only principals I fight for with Frank is the idea of trading him in a win now move or dumping him due to not showing immediate results. Wouldn't matter if it was Frank or if we drafted Monk and he was having the same season he is having now. Or if we drafted Luke Kennard. I would tell you the same things. Though I will admit I like the unique things Frank could potentially bring more so then Monk or Kennard. So those ideals give me more patience as well.

If you want to break down how Frank isn't a good enough PG. You won't get an argument from me because he isn't. But as ive stated many times already I don't view Frank as strictly a PG. He is set to make 4.1, 4.8, 6.0 mil over his next 3 seasons. At that price given that nobody knows what his potential is or at 6'5 with a 7ft wing span what position or role he will end up at at this point in his career at 19 yrs old. I feel it would be worth hanging on to give his cheap contract to see what he could become.

CrushAlot
Posts: 56545
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
2/23/2018  9:45 AM
Interesting article about the Payton trade. Apparently, Scott Skiles wanted no part of Payton when the Magic drafted him. This writer also says that Perry wasn't interested in Payton at the deadline and instead chose to trade for Mudiay.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-magic/os-sp-elfrid-payton-trade-orlando-magic-phoenix-suns-skiles-hennigan-20180208-story.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+orlandosentinel%2Fsports%2Fbasketball%2Fmagic+%28OrlandoSentinel.com+-+Orlando+Magic%29
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
nykshaknbake
Posts: 22012
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/15/2003
Member: #492
2/23/2018  1:27 PM
EnySpree wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Alot of you guys seem to love Frank's career more than the Knicks success.... that's highly troubling

Guy who loves to move the ball and make his teammates better and is capable of elite defense.

And you keep saying he is a failure. THAT is troubling.

Frank has the potential to be that player. I do wonder though if some posters would be as vociferous in their defense of a so-so season, if Frank was a pick of another regime?

You are suggesting that our opinion of a player is influenced by WHO picked the player? That's quite shocking to me. Love Phil so much that someone's opinion of Frank is skewed or influenced? Not me anyway.

GustavBahler wrote:What has been frustrating for me as a fan watching Frank is that the minutes have been there all season, and the needle really hasnt moved as far as elevating his game.

Wouldnt call it a big red flag, but a um..normal sized red flag. If Frank had been given sporadic minutes here and there, the lack of progress would be more understandable. Some of if might have to do with a nagging injury.

Really hope Frank looks at the starting PGs in this league, and tries to emulate what makes them elite. Wouldnt be suprised if the Knicks draft another PG as a plan B.

So, one question for you: Of the rookies in the lottery this past year, which players have moved the needle across the span of the year? And of those, how have the lower aged ones fared?

How did KP fare his first year?

Knicks didn't draft Ben Simmons type player.

So you are saying that the Andy Williams room, in a certain hotel in Branson MO. A meeting of certain Knicks forumenati with representatives of Phil Jackson's team to protect Frank from criticism, to pave the way for Phil's return to the
top of the Knicks pyramid,or should I say.....TRIANGLE? You say this meeting never happened??


As for my standards as a fan for Frank. Just want him to come out of this season playing like he has learned something from week 1. I havent seen enough growth in his game to say that. Wish I could. Still time this season to apply some of the things, he should have a better understanding of now. Like picking your moments. Mark of a heads up player.

Most rookies have been protected by critique their rookie yr honestly. Fans have always been will g to trade them. But they usually have let rooks get their lumps in before trashing them. Gallinari missed his entire rookie yr and after initial backlash of the pick being a community pick. Which we passed up Anthony Randolph for him. The board was relatively supportive. Jordan Hill was taken over Derozan and while he was traded away mid season. I don't remember to much whining about Hill. Mike Sweetney was given a pass his rookie yr. And he was fat and lazy.

Frank has gotten the most post made about him as a rookie critiqing his game since I don't even know. Most likely due to being a lotto PG in NY. Expectations are at a different level toward the PG position in NY.

Dont remember posters taking the criticism of a rook's game so personally. This was supposed to be a pick who would be a good fit with a budding star in KP. Frank looks like he was picked to be a good fit with a system, not a player, or players.

So far havent seen enough to prove otherwise. Will feel better about this pick when I do.

This.

This plus that


Cosign
Chandler
Posts: 22462
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/26/2015
Member: #6197

2/23/2018  1:37 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
Vmart wrote:
martin wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Alot of you guys seem to love Frank's career more than the Knicks success.... that's highly troubling

Guy who loves to move the ball and make his teammates better and is capable of elite defense.

And you keep saying he is a failure. THAT is troubling.

Now that I think about it’s better to start Mudiay it’s good for the tank. Ntlikina actually plays winning brand of basketball. Which might push the Knicks back in the draft order.

That's just not true and proves my point. Frank plays a winning brand of basketball? Just say you really like Frank above the Knicks as a team. It's better than saying stupid things like this. If he played a winning brand we'd be winning.... cue the +/- Stan with the research smdh


I would but it's pointless. Frank is a rookie. Mudiay has had three-year to prove that he sucks. Will he get better? Hope so. But really, Mudiay is on the hot seat more than Frank at this point. If he doesn't show flashes his extension will be declined and who knows what happens from there. You see the flash, but many people see a guy who doesn't play winning basketball yet, if ever. You say it's case of the Nuggets choosing Murray over Mudiay. Really, they chose ancient Devin Harris over Mudiay. We have two prospects. Let them play and figure it out later.

+100

DJMUSIC: Fisher talked a good game in Post game but aside from that Derek Fisher was ALL CHIT CHAT SH_t and produced nothing!
CrushAlot
Posts: 56545
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
2/23/2018  2:12 PM
Chandler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
Vmart wrote:
martin wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Alot of you guys seem to love Frank's career more than the Knicks success.... that's highly troubling

Guy who loves to move the ball and make his teammates better and is capable of elite defense.

And you keep saying he is a failure. THAT is troubling.

Now that I think about it’s better to start Mudiay it’s good for the tank. Ntlikina actually plays winning brand of basketball. Which might push the Knicks back in the draft order.

That's just not true and proves my point. Frank plays a winning brand of basketball? Just say you really like Frank above the Knicks as a team. It's better than saying stupid things like this. If he played a winning brand we'd be winning.... cue the +/- Stan with the research smdh


I would but it's pointless. Frank is a rookie. Mudiay has had three-year to prove that he sucks. Will he get better? Hope so. But really, Mudiay is on the hot seat more than Frank at this point. If he doesn't show flashes his extension will be declined and who knows what happens from there. You see the flash, but many people see a guy who doesn't play winning basketball yet, if ever. You say it's case of the Nuggets choosing Murray over Mudiay. Really, they chose ancient Devin Harris over Mudiay. We have two prospects. Let them play and figure it out later.

+100


When the trade went down some nugget fans were upset with Mike Malone and how he had handled Mudiay's situation. He needed a fresh start. If players are who they are going to be at 21, Frank needs to get it in gear. His team has already brought in 2 more young point guards.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
martin
Posts: 47316
Alba Posts: 106
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
2/23/2018  2:37 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Chandler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
Vmart wrote:
martin wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Alot of you guys seem to love Frank's career more than the Knicks success.... that's highly troubling

Guy who loves to move the ball and make his teammates better and is capable of elite defense.

And you keep saying he is a failure. THAT is troubling.

Now that I think about it’s better to start Mudiay it’s good for the tank. Ntlikina actually plays winning brand of basketball. Which might push the Knicks back in the draft order.

That's just not true and proves my point. Frank plays a winning brand of basketball? Just say you really like Frank above the Knicks as a team. It's better than saying stupid things like this. If he played a winning brand we'd be winning.... cue the +/- Stan with the research smdh


I would but it's pointless. Frank is a rookie. Mudiay has had three-year to prove that he sucks. Will he get better? Hope so. But really, Mudiay is on the hot seat more than Frank at this point. If he doesn't show flashes his extension will be declined and who knows what happens from there. You see the flash, but many people see a guy who doesn't play winning basketball yet, if ever. You say it's case of the Nuggets choosing Murray over Mudiay. Really, they chose ancient Devin Harris over Mudiay. We have two prospects. Let them play and figure it out later.

+100


When the trade went down some nugget fans were upset with Mike Malone and how he had handled Mudiay's situation. He needed a fresh start. If players are who they are going to be at 21, Frank needs to get it in gear. His team has already brought in 2 more young point guards.

True! Another way to look at it is Frank is possibly the ONLY PG on the roster past next year and if both do well they may leave.

Frank has a lot to prove to himself and the Knicks over the next 2 seasons.

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
Mudiay our new starting point guard?

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.com All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.