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Hornacek: We've moved on from Noah...
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fishmike
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2/21/2018  12:28 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Last yr it was jennings and melo, this year noah and Willy, this is all under JH's watch with mills involved. This is certainly not uncommon in the NBA, but when it starts becoming a very normal occurance, thats not making your business model attractive.

The knicks will have to extend JH this summer, and after 2 (what's looking to be ) atrocious season that would be putting mills delicate career on the line. With little to no progression, and perhaps a huge step back, it would be in his best interest to find a MUCH better coach.

If JH goes into next season LAME DUCK STATUS(which would look so desperate), who the hell is going to play for him, REMEMBER don chaney, his lame duck status got him escorted out of the building after a loss in march..smh..Thanks to Isaiah

D'Antoni was a lame duck under Grunfeld and his successor was on the staff as the assistant head coach. I can't imagine Jeff being let go for Rambis though. I think a move will be made this offseason. Jeff was given a year without dysfunction. He hasn't had the best roster but I always think management and coach should have the same vision. Jeff is a hold over.

You think they are on different pages?

I have no idea what each of their agendas would be, if they are different or on same.

Outside of this thing with Noah is there anything that would indicate Jeff hasn't be in line with FO?

I think Jeff has complied with management but neither Perry or Mills chose Jeff. I thought Phil's guy was Rambis, not Jeff. I think situations like Marks/Atkinson are ideal.
yeah! grownups talking.

Its a tough question. Perry/Mills probably have their ideal candidate. As per Martin's question I think Jeff did a good job this year. The vets had their their best possible value (Noah aside) at the deadline while KP became an AS and Frank still got 20 mins a game. The started strong with some help from the schedule but wore down with a confluence of injuries, depth, lack of experience and poor play. I think we got a glimpse into what a squad *could* look like with KP/Kanter/THjr and crew playing well.

Now Jeff is not their guy. We know that. We dont know how well he works with Perry/Mills or what they think of him. I suspect they think Jeff is OK. They probably respect him, dont expect perfection, like some things, dislike others and are struggling with making a change that hurts continuity. It also puts Perry/Mills next coach in a tough spot. Jeff hasnt been bad. I dont know if his players respect him or not, but we know he's no pushover. I know they liked the coach when they were winning and hitting shots. However if the next guy struggles it really puts Mills/Perry in a tougher spot. What is Blatt comes in, struggles and loses the locker room? That is a much tougher spot than dealing with Horncek's shortcomings.... tough choices and we are not privy to the key pieces of info.

Maybe exit interviews tell the story?

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Nalod
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2/21/2018  12:42 PM
knicks1248 wrote:Last yr it was jennings and melo, this year noah and Willy, this is all under JH's watch with mills involved. This is certainly not uncommon in the NBA, but when it starts becoming a very normal occurance, thats not making your business model attractive.

The knicks will have to extend JH this summer, and after 2 (what's looking to be ) atrocious season that would be putting mills delicate career on the line. With little to no progression, and perhaps a huge step back, it would be in his best interest to find a MUCH better coach.

If JH goes into next season LAME DUCK STATUS(which would look so desperate), who the hell is going to play for him, REMEMBER don chaney, his lame duck status got him escorted out of the building after a loss in march..smh..Thanks to Isaiah

Talk about lame duck status, I’d bet good money that Martin has his finger on your “Ban Button” frequently for your redundant ignorant trolling.
What facts do you have that either JH or Mills is in danger of losing their job?
Team record? Nope, thats a symtom of a larger long term problem.
What is your position to take sides in this matter you or anyone else really does not have a clear understanding of?
If Noah does not want to be here he can accept a buy out. Knicks were very generous to give him a deal he clearly was not able to fulfil on the court. He can choose a lessor amount or take his money and adhere to the team rules.
Nobody is going to trade for him even if he is crazy good because he. Has not shown he can stay healthy!!!
I hate his contract and both the knicks predicament as well as his.

You don't show a fool a job half done!
martin
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2/21/2018  12:42 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Last yr it was jennings and melo, this year noah and Willy, this is all under JH's watch with mills involved. This is certainly not uncommon in the NBA, but when it starts becoming a very normal occurance, thats not making your business model attractive.

The knicks will have to extend JH this summer, and after 2 (what's looking to be ) atrocious season that would be putting mills delicate career on the line. With little to no progression, and perhaps a huge step back, it would be in his best interest to find a MUCH better coach.

If JH goes into next season LAME DUCK STATUS(which would look so desperate), who the hell is going to play for him, REMEMBER don chaney, his lame duck status got him escorted out of the building after a loss in march..smh..Thanks to Isaiah

D'Antoni was a lame duck under Grunfeld and his successor was on the staff as the assistant head coach. I can't imagine Jeff being let go for Rambis though. I think a move will be made this offseason. Jeff was given a year without dysfunction. He hasn't had the best roster but I always think management and coach should have the same vision. Jeff is a hold over.

You think they are on different pages?

I have no idea what each of their agendas would be, if they are different or on same.

Outside of this thing with Noah is there anything that would indicate Jeff hasn't be in line with FO?

I think Jeff has complied with management but neither Perry or Mills chose Jeff. I thought Phil's guy was Rambis, not Jeff. I think situations like Marks/Atkinson are ideal.

The Knicks will not be going to the playoffs next year and may only be a borderline playoff team the next, depending on how things flush out (could be that in 2019/20 they are a solid playoff team).

Jeff signed a 3 year deal at $15M and is in his second year.

Has he met Perry/Mills/team goals? That should really be the only question that needs to be answered. I have never equated or understood the concept of a coach being hired by one person and having that fact be the central idea behind whether or not he would come back the next.

If Jeff is not doing the job the Knicks set him out to this past year AND they are comfortable eating $5M, hire a new coach.

Knicks had let us know that at the beginning of the season they wanted to win games, play defense and start a culture shift.

A quarter the way thru the season, on 11/29, Knicks were 11-10, KP was uber hot and that's when THJr went down. Knicks are 19-22 at the halfway point in the season (limping to it really, finishing 2-8 over last 10 games of that time period of a long ass road trip), lots of home games in first half of season. Kanter is a solid starter, Lee has flourished, Jack comes out of nowhere, Jeff is making solid in game adjustments to win games. No one thought the Knicks would be near .500. They flirted.

Since that point Knicks have floundered. But lots of time without THJr and KP has been gone recently.

Has Jeff done what the Knicks want with what he has been given? I don't know enough about defensive stats but they seem to indicate the Knicks are somewhere in the middle of the pack; and for me, they start a C and PG that are awful defensively, THJr doesn't stay in front of anyone, Lee contributes in an average way and KP is a plus defender.

Jeff has given consistent minutes to young guys, sat guys who don't give effort, pulled guys very noticeably when they don't play defense, tried to win game.

Has he done the job that the FO wants? I have no idea

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BigRedDog
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2/21/2018  12:46 PM
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Last yr it was jennings and melo, this year noah and Willy, this is all under JH's watch with mills involved. This is certainly not uncommon in the NBA, but when it starts becoming a very normal occurance, thats not making your business model attractive.

The knicks will have to extend JH this summer, and after 2 (what's looking to be ) atrocious season that would be putting mills delicate career on the line. With little to no progression, and perhaps a huge step back, it would be in his best interest to find a MUCH better coach.

If JH goes into next season LAME DUCK STATUS(which would look so desperate), who the hell is going to play for him, REMEMBER don chaney, his lame duck status got him escorted out of the building after a loss in march..smh..Thanks to Isaiah

D'Antoni was a lame duck under Grunfeld and his successor was on the staff as the assistant head coach. I can't imagine Jeff being let go for Rambis though. I think a move will be made this offseason. Jeff was given a year without dysfunction. He hasn't had the best roster but I always think management and coach should have the same vision. Jeff is a hold over.

You think they are on different pages?

I have no idea what each of their agendas would be, if they are different or on same.

Outside of this thing with Noah is there anything that would indicate Jeff hasn't be in line with FO?

I would say the playing time of the young guys. Perry brought Burke in. Burke has played ok to pretty good in his time here. Do you think Perry is happy when Burke has played well and then see a DNP or 4 mins next to Burkes name? I can't believe Perry is happy seeing Jack get 18 mins. Reading the quotes from Horny it doesn't seem like he is ready to bench Jack at this time which is crazy. Reducing his minutes??? Wow. Every minute Jack is on the court takes away from Some young players development. I also think Perry has a defensive mentality and I just don't see Horny either teaching that or getting thru to the players a defensive philosophy. IMO there is NO way Horny returns next year. I don't think Perry likes firing a coach in the middle of a season and I hope Horny does whats right for this team the last 23 games or so.

Briggs-- Frank is 2 yrs away from being 2 years away
fishmike
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2/21/2018  12:55 PM
BigRedDog wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Last yr it was jennings and melo, this year noah and Willy, this is all under JH's watch with mills involved. This is certainly not uncommon in the NBA, but when it starts becoming a very normal occurance, thats not making your business model attractive.

The knicks will have to extend JH this summer, and after 2 (what's looking to be ) atrocious season that would be putting mills delicate career on the line. With little to no progression, and perhaps a huge step back, it would be in his best interest to find a MUCH better coach.

If JH goes into next season LAME DUCK STATUS(which would look so desperate), who the hell is going to play for him, REMEMBER don chaney, his lame duck status got him escorted out of the building after a loss in march..smh..Thanks to Isaiah

D'Antoni was a lame duck under Grunfeld and his successor was on the staff as the assistant head coach. I can't imagine Jeff being let go for Rambis though. I think a move will be made this offseason. Jeff was given a year without dysfunction. He hasn't had the best roster but I always think management and coach should have the same vision. Jeff is a hold over.

You think they are on different pages?

I have no idea what each of their agendas would be, if they are different or on same.

Outside of this thing with Noah is there anything that would indicate Jeff hasn't be in line with FO?

I would say the playing time of the young guys. Perry brought Burke in. Burke has played ok to pretty good in his time here. Do you think Perry is happy when Burke has played well and then see a DNP or 4 mins next to Burkes name? I can't believe Perry is happy seeing Jack get 18 mins. Reading the quotes from Horny it doesn't seem like he is ready to bench Jack at this time which is crazy. Reducing his minutes??? Wow. Every minute Jack is on the court takes away from Some young players development. I also think Perry has a defensive mentality and I just don't see Horny either teaching that or getting thru to the players a defensive philosophy. IMO there is NO way Horny returns next year. I don't think Perry likes firing a coach in the middle of a season and I hope Horny does whats right for this team the last 23 games or so.


Jack is Perry's guy. More so than Jeff. I cant explain why Burke got the DNPs. Maybe Jack was being showcased and they told Burke your time is coming. Maybe Jeff hates Burke and thinks he's an a-hole (a knock on Burke). Truth is I have no clue at all.. only knicks1248 has the inside story

Jack may be in a teaching role. Perry loves him. Many view Jack as a player who will easily transition into a FO role. Who knows what is going on. If Jack sits for the kids rest of season I think this discussion is a non starter and that Jeff was leaning on his most experienced PG for a variety of reasons and its simply time to move on and look at the kids.

Nalod
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2/21/2018  12:56 PM
I think Jack minutes have been reduced, and with Mudiay now here it seems Burke will be out more than frank will.
Burke has done ok, but nothing outstanding. I had read his minutes will be further reduced.
If JH is to be evaluated it has to be when the team was relatively healthy. He did ok.
As for him playing or not playing the kids? We don’t know if he is being insubordinate to his superiors or not.
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CrushAlot
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2/21/2018  1:04 PM
fishmike wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Last yr it was jennings and melo, this year noah and Willy, this is all under JH's watch with mills involved. This is certainly not uncommon in the NBA, but when it starts becoming a very normal occurance, thats not making your business model attractive.

The knicks will have to extend JH this summer, and after 2 (what's looking to be ) atrocious season that would be putting mills delicate career on the line. With little to no progression, and perhaps a huge step back, it would be in his best interest to find a MUCH better coach.

If JH goes into next season LAME DUCK STATUS(which would look so desperate), who the hell is going to play for him, REMEMBER don chaney, his lame duck status got him escorted out of the building after a loss in march..smh..Thanks to Isaiah

D'Antoni was a lame duck under Grunfeld and his successor was on the staff as the assistant head coach. I can't imagine Jeff being let go for Rambis though. I think a move will be made this offseason. Jeff was given a year without dysfunction. He hasn't had the best roster but I always think management and coach should have the same vision. Jeff is a hold over.

You think they are on different pages?

I have no idea what each of their agendas would be, if they are different or on same.

Outside of this thing with Noah is there anything that would indicate Jeff hasn't be in line with FO?

I would say the playing time of the young guys. Perry brought Burke in. Burke has played ok to pretty good in his time here. Do you think Perry is happy when Burke has played well and then see a DNP or 4 mins next to Burkes name? I can't believe Perry is happy seeing Jack get 18 mins. Reading the quotes from Horny it doesn't seem like he is ready to bench Jack at this time which is crazy. Reducing his minutes??? Wow. Every minute Jack is on the court takes away from Some young players development. I also think Perry has a defensive mentality and I just don't see Horny either teaching that or getting thru to the players a defensive philosophy. IMO there is NO way Horny returns next year. I don't think Perry likes firing a coach in the middle of a season and I hope Horny does whats right for this team the last 23 games or so.


Jack is Perry's guy. More so than Jeff. I cant explain why Burke got the DNPs. Maybe Jack was being showcased and they told Burke your time is coming. Maybe Jeff hates Burke and thinks he's an a-hole (a knock on Burke). Truth is I have no clue at all.. only knicks1248 has the inside story

Jack may be in a teaching role. Perry loves him. Many view Jack as a player who will easily transition into a FO role. Who knows what is going on. If Jack sits for the kids rest of season I think this discussion is a non starter and that Jeff was leaning on his most experienced PG for a variety of reasons and its simply time to move on and look at the kids.

I heard a guy from the Nets say that Jack is the perfect 15th man because he is such a good mentor and locker room guy. His role has been larger then planned so far. I think he is a proud guy but also a professional and will do what is best for the team.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
Nalod
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2/21/2018  1:09 PM
Jack has been great for us! Many times he has come up big. Not always enough to close games out but given his salary, age, condition, and expecation he has been great!
You don't show a fool a job half done!
martin
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2/21/2018  1:15 PM
I don't know why this ISN'T the plan:

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martin
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2/21/2018  1:33 PM
BigRedDog wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Last yr it was jennings and melo, this year noah and Willy, this is all under JH's watch with mills involved. This is certainly not uncommon in the NBA, but when it starts becoming a very normal occurance, thats not making your business model attractive.

The knicks will have to extend JH this summer, and after 2 (what's looking to be ) atrocious season that would be putting mills delicate career on the line. With little to no progression, and perhaps a huge step back, it would be in his best interest to find a MUCH better coach.

If JH goes into next season LAME DUCK STATUS(which would look so desperate), who the hell is going to play for him, REMEMBER don chaney, his lame duck status got him escorted out of the building after a loss in march..smh..Thanks to Isaiah

D'Antoni was a lame duck under Grunfeld and his successor was on the staff as the assistant head coach. I can't imagine Jeff being let go for Rambis though. I think a move will be made this offseason. Jeff was given a year without dysfunction. He hasn't had the best roster but I always think management and coach should have the same vision. Jeff is a hold over.

You think they are on different pages?

I have no idea what each of their agendas would be, if they are different or on same.

Outside of this thing with Noah is there anything that would indicate Jeff hasn't be in line with FO?

I would say the playing time of the young guys. Perry brought Burke in. Burke has played ok to pretty good in his time here. Do you think Perry is happy when Burke has played well and then see a DNP or 4 mins next to Burkes name? I can't believe Perry is happy seeing Jack get 18 mins. Reading the quotes from Horny it doesn't seem like he is ready to bench Jack at this time which is crazy. Reducing his minutes??? Wow. Every minute Jack is on the court takes away from Some young players development. I also think Perry has a defensive mentality and I just don't see Horny either teaching that or getting thru to the players a defensive philosophy. IMO there is NO way Horny returns next year. I don't think Perry likes firing a coach in the middle of a season and I hope Horny does whats right for this team the last 23 games or so.

IMHO, I'm more interested in the long haul of how Jeff plays the young guys, there does seem to be a line of post all-star weekend to start that process.

Game to game? You never know what is going on with the team day to day that would have guys get more or less minutes.

And not for nothing, reading the quotes makes me think that the team IS ready to bench Jack. Mudiay practices with first team, coach has literally said young guys will get bigger minutes, etc. So this is really easy, right? We just wait and see what actually happens and then come to a conclusion.

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SupremeCommander
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2/21/2018  1:50 PM
martin wrote:I don't know why this ISN'T the plan:

certainly playing Noah has more value to us at this point than KOQ (who should have been traded)

Nalod said: You had me at the first sentence. Then you asked us to be your emotional tampon.
fishmike
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2/21/2018  2:19 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
martin wrote:I don't know why this ISN'T the plan:

certainly playing Noah has more value to us at this point than KOQ (who should have been traded)

anything is possible. Knicks might resign KOQ for 2 years at a salary that matches someone they are targeting in a trade. Getting Noah time might make him more movable if teams see he can play a little. Dont you want to see Kanter on the floor with young athletic guards? Mudiay, Burke and Troy give us some young slashers... Kanter following anyone to the basket is good offense.

Its a muddy picture. Not really enough minutes and games to accomplish everything so we will see what/how they prioritize.

knicks1248
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2/21/2018  3:10 PM
martin wrote:I don't know why this ISN'T the plan:

It's kind of the same route with melo, lets devalue his services then try and trade him

ES
knicks1248
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2/21/2018  3:39 PM
fishmike wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Last yr it was jennings and melo, this year noah and Willy, this is all under JH's watch with mills involved. This is certainly not uncommon in the NBA, but when it starts becoming a very normal occurance, thats not making your business model attractive.

The knicks will have to extend JH this summer, and after 2 (what's looking to be ) atrocious season that would be putting mills delicate career on the line. With little to no progression, and perhaps a huge step back, it would be in his best interest to find a MUCH better coach.

If JH goes into next season LAME DUCK STATUS(which would look so desperate), who the hell is going to play for him, REMEMBER don chaney, his lame duck status got him escorted out of the building after a loss in march..smh..Thanks to Isaiah

D'Antoni was a lame duck under Grunfeld and his successor was on the staff as the assistant head coach. I can't imagine Jeff being let go for Rambis though. I think a move will be made this offseason. Jeff was given a year without dysfunction. He hasn't had the best roster but I always think management and coach should have the same vision. Jeff is a hold over.

You think they are on different pages?

I have no idea what each of their agendas would be, if they are different or on same.

Outside of this thing with Noah is there anything that would indicate Jeff hasn't be in line with FO?

I would say the playing time of the young guys. Perry brought Burke in. Burke has played ok to pretty good in his time here. Do you think Perry is happy when Burke has played well and then see a DNP or 4 mins next to Burkes name? I can't believe Perry is happy seeing Jack get 18 mins. Reading the quotes from Horny it doesn't seem like he is ready to bench Jack at this time which is crazy. Reducing his minutes??? Wow. Every minute Jack is on the court takes away from Some young players development. I also think Perry has a defensive mentality and I just don't see Horny either teaching that or getting thru to the players a defensive philosophy. IMO there is NO way Horny returns next year. I don't think Perry likes firing a coach in the middle of a season and I hope Horny does whats right for this team the last 23 games or so.


Jack is Perry's guy. More so than Jeff. I cant explain why Burke got the DNPs. Maybe Jack was being showcased and they told Burke your time is coming. Maybe Jeff hates Burke and thinks he's an a-hole (a knock on Burke). Truth is I have no clue at all.. only knicks1248 has the inside story

Jack may be in a teaching role. Perry loves him. Many view Jack as a player who will easily transition into a FO role. Who knows what is going on. If Jack sits for the kids rest of season I think this discussion is a non starter and that Jeff was leaning on his most experienced PG for a variety of reasons and its simply time to move on and look at the kids.

Just so we're both clear on how things work,

Straight from the horse's mouth


I’m going to give Scott the room to make basketball decisions and make recommendations to me,’’ Mills said at Monday’s press conference to formally announce his promotion to the presidency and the hiring of Perry as GM. “He’s going to have a chance to manage the coaching staff, manage the scouting staff, and make recommendations as to where we should go as a basketball organization. I think we’ll be partners in that in the sense that he’ll come to me with his recommendation and we’ll debate it back and forth. But at the end of the day, I’m giving him the room to make those decisions.”

On ESPN Radio, Perry said Mills “will have the final say,’’ but this stands to be the most influence he’ll have after working for four teams, including the Pistons, who won the NBA title during the 2003-04 season.

I wasn't even aware of that last part about this being the most influence he's ever had.

So basically Mills is in a role he never had, Perry is in a role he never had, and JH is pretty new at his role.. Like i said, none of this guys are different from Frank, everybody is trying to figure it out, which makes the process that much harder

ES
fishmike
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2/21/2018  3:49 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Last yr it was jennings and melo, this year noah and Willy, this is all under JH's watch with mills involved. This is certainly not uncommon in the NBA, but when it starts becoming a very normal occurance, thats not making your business model attractive.

The knicks will have to extend JH this summer, and after 2 (what's looking to be ) atrocious season that would be putting mills delicate career on the line. With little to no progression, and perhaps a huge step back, it would be in his best interest to find a MUCH better coach.

If JH goes into next season LAME DUCK STATUS(which would look so desperate), who the hell is going to play for him, REMEMBER don chaney, his lame duck status got him escorted out of the building after a loss in march..smh..Thanks to Isaiah

D'Antoni was a lame duck under Grunfeld and his successor was on the staff as the assistant head coach. I can't imagine Jeff being let go for Rambis though. I think a move will be made this offseason. Jeff was given a year without dysfunction. He hasn't had the best roster but I always think management and coach should have the same vision. Jeff is a hold over.

You think they are on different pages?

I have no idea what each of their agendas would be, if they are different or on same.

Outside of this thing with Noah is there anything that would indicate Jeff hasn't be in line with FO?

I would say the playing time of the young guys. Perry brought Burke in. Burke has played ok to pretty good in his time here. Do you think Perry is happy when Burke has played well and then see a DNP or 4 mins next to Burkes name? I can't believe Perry is happy seeing Jack get 18 mins. Reading the quotes from Horny it doesn't seem like he is ready to bench Jack at this time which is crazy. Reducing his minutes??? Wow. Every minute Jack is on the court takes away from Some young players development. I also think Perry has a defensive mentality and I just don't see Horny either teaching that or getting thru to the players a defensive philosophy. IMO there is NO way Horny returns next year. I don't think Perry likes firing a coach in the middle of a season and I hope Horny does whats right for this team the last 23 games or so.


Jack is Perry's guy. More so than Jeff. I cant explain why Burke got the DNPs. Maybe Jack was being showcased and they told Burke your time is coming. Maybe Jeff hates Burke and thinks he's an a-hole (a knock on Burke). Truth is I have no clue at all.. only knicks1248 has the inside story

Jack may be in a teaching role. Perry loves him. Many view Jack as a player who will easily transition into a FO role. Who knows what is going on. If Jack sits for the kids rest of season I think this discussion is a non starter and that Jeff was leaning on his most experienced PG for a variety of reasons and its simply time to move on and look at the kids.

Just so we're both clear on how things work,

Straight from the horse's mouth


I’m going to give Scott the room to make basketball decisions and make recommendations to me,’’ Mills said at Monday’s press conference to formally announce his promotion to the presidency and the hiring of Perry as GM. “He’s going to have a chance to manage the coaching staff, manage the scouting staff, and make recommendations as to where we should go as a basketball organization. I think we’ll be partners in that in the sense that he’ll come to me with his recommendation and we’ll debate it back and forth. But at the end of the day, I’m giving him the room to make those decisions.”

On ESPN Radio, Perry said Mills “will have the final say,’’ but this stands to be the most influence he’ll have after working for four teams, including the Pistons, who won the NBA title during the 2003-04 season.

I wasn't even aware of that last part about this being the most influence he's ever had.

So basically Mills is in a role he never had, Perry is in a role he never had, and JH is pretty new at his role.. Like i said, none of this guys are different from Frank, everybody is trying to figure it out, which makes the process that much harder

Im sorry... when did "most influence" become "never"

You always impress me. You include a quote, then replace it with something different that is yours and pretend your still talking about the same quote.

Perry is literally doing everything he's already done in the past, just more of it. Or you can just make up something.

knicks1248
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2/21/2018  4:14 PM
fishmike wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Last yr it was jennings and melo, this year noah and Willy, this is all under JH's watch with mills involved. This is certainly not uncommon in the NBA, but when it starts becoming a very normal occurance, thats not making your business model attractive.

The knicks will have to extend JH this summer, and after 2 (what's looking to be ) atrocious season that would be putting mills delicate career on the line. With little to no progression, and perhaps a huge step back, it would be in his best interest to find a MUCH better coach.

If JH goes into next season LAME DUCK STATUS(which would look so desperate), who the hell is going to play for him, REMEMBER don chaney, his lame duck status got him escorted out of the building after a loss in march..smh..Thanks to Isaiah

D'Antoni was a lame duck under Grunfeld and his successor was on the staff as the assistant head coach. I can't imagine Jeff being let go for Rambis though. I think a move will be made this offseason. Jeff was given a year without dysfunction. He hasn't had the best roster but I always think management and coach should have the same vision. Jeff is a hold over.

You think they are on different pages?

I have no idea what each of their agendas would be, if they are different or on same.

Outside of this thing with Noah is there anything that would indicate Jeff hasn't be in line with FO?

I would say the playing time of the young guys. Perry brought Burke in. Burke has played ok to pretty good in his time here. Do you think Perry is happy when Burke has played well and then see a DNP or 4 mins next to Burkes name? I can't believe Perry is happy seeing Jack get 18 mins. Reading the quotes from Horny it doesn't seem like he is ready to bench Jack at this time which is crazy. Reducing his minutes??? Wow. Every minute Jack is on the court takes away from Some young players development. I also think Perry has a defensive mentality and I just don't see Horny either teaching that or getting thru to the players a defensive philosophy. IMO there is NO way Horny returns next year. I don't think Perry likes firing a coach in the middle of a season and I hope Horny does whats right for this team the last 23 games or so.


Jack is Perry's guy. More so than Jeff. I cant explain why Burke got the DNPs. Maybe Jack was being showcased and they told Burke your time is coming. Maybe Jeff hates Burke and thinks he's an a-hole (a knock on Burke). Truth is I have no clue at all.. only knicks1248 has the inside story

Jack may be in a teaching role. Perry loves him. Many view Jack as a player who will easily transition into a FO role. Who knows what is going on. If Jack sits for the kids rest of season I think this discussion is a non starter and that Jeff was leaning on his most experienced PG for a variety of reasons and its simply time to move on and look at the kids.

Just so we're both clear on how things work,

Straight from the horse's mouth


I’m going to give Scott the room to make basketball decisions and make recommendations to me,’’ Mills said at Monday’s press conference to formally announce his promotion to the presidency and the hiring of Perry as GM. “He’s going to have a chance to manage the coaching staff, manage the scouting staff, and make recommendations as to where we should go as a basketball organization. I think we’ll be partners in that in the sense that he’ll come to me with his recommendation and we’ll debate it back and forth. But at the end of the day, I’m giving him the room to make those decisions.”

On ESPN Radio, Perry said Mills “will have the final say,’’ but this stands to be the most influence he’ll have after working for four teams, including the Pistons, who won the NBA title during the 2003-04 season.

I wasn't even aware of that last part about this being the most influence he's ever had.

So basically Mills is in a role he never had, Perry is in a role he never had, and JH is pretty new at his role.. Like i said, none of this guys are different from Frank, everybody is trying to figure it out, which makes the process that much harder

Im sorry... when did "most influence" become "never"

You always impress me. You include a quote, then replace it with something different that is yours and pretend your still talking about the same quote.

Perry is literally doing everything he's already done in the past, just more of it. Or you can just make up something.

So let me ask you, Are you confident that this is the right FO and coach in place.

I never have a problem admitting when i'm wrong, you seem like the type of person that will ignore all of the warning signs and red flags (hope for the best) and get yourself caught up in some BS.

The fact that no one in the FO and our head coach has had any real success in their current roles is reason for concern, how is that making stuff up..

ES
newyorknewyork
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2/21/2018  5:10 PM
martin wrote:I don't know why this ISN'T the plan:

If we buy him out. Could we still stretch his contract next offseason?

Nalod
Posts: 56399
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USA
2/21/2018  9:41 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Last yr it was jennings and melo, this year noah and Willy, this is all under JH's watch with mills involved. This is certainly not uncommon in the NBA, but when it starts becoming a very normal occurance, thats not making your business model attractive.

The knicks will have to extend JH this summer, and after 2 (what's looking to be ) atrocious season that would be putting mills delicate career on the line. With little to no progression, and perhaps a huge step back, it would be in his best interest to find a MUCH better coach.

If JH goes into next season LAME DUCK STATUS(which would look so desperate), who the hell is going to play for him, REMEMBER don chaney, his lame duck status got him escorted out of the building after a loss in march..smh..Thanks to Isaiah

D'Antoni was a lame duck under Grunfeld and his successor was on the staff as the assistant head coach. I can't imagine Jeff being let go for Rambis though. I think a move will be made this offseason. Jeff was given a year without dysfunction. He hasn't had the best roster but I always think management and coach should have the same vision. Jeff is a hold over.

You think they are on different pages?

I have no idea what each of their agendas would be, if they are different or on same.

Outside of this thing with Noah is there anything that would indicate Jeff hasn't be in line with FO?

I would say the playing time of the young guys. Perry brought Burke in. Burke has played ok to pretty good in his time here. Do you think Perry is happy when Burke has played well and then see a DNP or 4 mins next to Burkes name? I can't believe Perry is happy seeing Jack get 18 mins. Reading the quotes from Horny it doesn't seem like he is ready to bench Jack at this time which is crazy. Reducing his minutes??? Wow. Every minute Jack is on the court takes away from Some young players development. I also think Perry has a defensive mentality and I just don't see Horny either teaching that or getting thru to the players a defensive philosophy. IMO there is NO way Horny returns next year. I don't think Perry likes firing a coach in the middle of a season and I hope Horny does whats right for this team the last 23 games or so.


Jack is Perry's guy. More so than Jeff. I cant explain why Burke got the DNPs. Maybe Jack was being showcased and they told Burke your time is coming. Maybe Jeff hates Burke and thinks he's an a-hole (a knock on Burke). Truth is I have no clue at all.. only knicks1248 has the inside story

Jack may be in a teaching role. Perry loves him. Many view Jack as a player who will easily transition into a FO role. Who knows what is going on. If Jack sits for the kids rest of season I think this discussion is a non starter and that Jeff was leaning on his most experienced PG for a variety of reasons and its simply time to move on and look at the kids.

Just so we're both clear on how things work,

Straight from the horse's mouth


I’m going to give Scott the room to make basketball decisions and make recommendations to me,’’ Mills said at Monday’s press conference to formally announce his promotion to the presidency and the hiring of Perry as GM. “He’s going to have a chance to manage the coaching staff, manage the scouting staff, and make recommendations as to where we should go as a basketball organization. I think we’ll be partners in that in the sense that he’ll come to me with his recommendation and we’ll debate it back and forth. But at the end of the day, I’m giving him the room to make those decisions.”

On ESPN Radio, Perry said Mills “will have the final say,’’ but this stands to be the most influence he’ll have after working for four teams, including the Pistons, who won the NBA title during the 2003-04 season.

I wasn't even aware of that last part about this being the most influence he's ever had.

So basically Mills is in a role he never had, Perry is in a role he never had, and JH is pretty new at his role.. Like i said, none of this guys are different from Frank, everybody is trying to figure it out, which makes the process that much harder

Im sorry... when did "most influence" become "never"

You always impress me. You include a quote, then replace it with something different that is yours and pretend your still talking about the same quote.

Perry is literally doing everything he's already done in the past, just more of it. Or you can just make up something.

So let me ask you, Are you confident that this is the right FO and coach in place.

I never have a problem admitting when i'm wrong, you seem like the type of person that will ignore all of the warning signs and red flags (hope for the best) and get yourself caught up in some BS.

The fact that no one in the FO and our head coach has had any real success in their current roles is reason for concern, how is that making stuff up..



Their lack of that exact experience that you make as your qualifier is subjective. You are not right or wrong. Neither is Fish for not agreeing with you.
There are no “red flags or warning signs”, you have your opinion and make a lot of filler shyt up to convince yourself.
You don't show a fool a job half done!
smackeddog
Posts: 33223
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2/22/2018  3:34 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:
martin wrote:I don't know why this ISN'T the plan:

If we buy him out. Could we still stretch his contract next offseason?

Nope, that's why it makes no sense to buy him out now. If we at least wait until the off-season then we can either trade him (unlikely) or stretch him if we need a bit extra space to sign a free agent (I don't want to stretch him but it's nice to have the option) or we can just buy him out, or we can keep him. Buying him out now robs you of all those options and gains you nothing.

EnySpree
Posts: 44758
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

2/22/2018  7:44 AM
Is it really tat troubling to keep Noah on the roster? Buying him out only helps Noah. I believe the Knicks cap situation is still effected even with a buyout. Keeping Noah till his final year makes the most sense because then he's a tradable asset. If Noah wastes and tarnished his career by acting out against the Knicks then that's on him.

As some pointed out Noah might be back on the roster once Hornacek is fired. His roster spot isn't hurting us now or next year.

Checkout my podcast "diehardknickspodcast" on itunes, Google podcast, spotify, anchor and others
Hornacek: We've moved on from Noah...

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