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OT Florida shooting
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HofstraBBall
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2/23/2018  1:45 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/23/2018  1:46 PM
fishmike wrote:http://NRA Leader Warns Conservatives Of 'Socialist Wave' In Wake Of Shooting - NPR
https://apple.news/AWc7Xka2cTuuH-aRGe5nNkA

Seems like a sensible guy. An ofcourse unbiased. Here is another piranha.

Your type of crowd?

AUTOADVERT
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2/23/2018  2:12 PM
Juveniles and Firearms: A Closer Look

For many juveniles, firearms have become a fact of life. For juvenile offenders, guns have become as common as knives once were. Consider that:

The juvenile arrest rate for weapons laws violations increased by 103 percent between 1983 and 1994; during the same period, the adult arrest rate increased 26 percent
In a recent study of 4,000 arrestees in 11 cities, 40 percent of juvenile males reported possessing a firearm at some time.
A Virginia Department of Criminal Justice study of adult and juvenile inmates found that juveniles were more likely than adults to have carried a semiautomatic pistol in the commission of a crime.
In 1994, the National School Safety Center estimated that each day about 135,000 students nationwide carried guns into schools.
A 1991 study of a sample of juvenile inmates in four States found that, in particular, juvenile offenders prefer high-quality, large-caliber, concealable handguns.

Juveniles increasingly are the victims of firearms-related violence. The U.S. Department of the Treasury, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) reported that more U.S. teenagers die from gunshot wounds than from all natural causes of disease combined. In a June 1993 fact sheet, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services' Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported that firearms are the second leading cause of death for young people 10 to 34 years of age. In 1991, the ATF reported that firearms-related mortality accounted for almost half of all deaths among teens; in 1993, 85 percent of 15- to 19-year-old murder victims were killed with a firearm.

Where Juveniles Get Guns

In November 1993, the ATF initiated a tracing program to identify the source of firearms recovered from juvenile offenders. When doing followup investigations, the ATF's tracing program also seeks to determine in which criminal activities firearms were used and to discover how the juveniles obtained the firearms. Traces are initiated at the request of law enforcement agencies.

In 1993 and 1994, the ATF conducted more than 3,800 traces of firearms recovered from juveniles. In most cases, juveniles were charged with weapons offenses, such as illegal possession of a firearm. Of the total firearms recovered, 2,700 were involved in incidents that resulted in charges of weapons violations. The ATF also found that 205 of these weapons were used in assaults, 199 in homicides, 156 in incidents involving narcotics, 98 in robberies, 46 in burglaries, and 13 in sexual assaults.

In 712 followup trace investigations conducted from November 1993 through June 1994 to determine the source of firearms recovered from juveniles, the ATF found that 27 percent of the juveniles had been given firearms by individuals other than parents or guardians and 22 percent had obtained firearms in burglaries or other thefts.23 The investigations also found that 16 percent of the juveniles had purchased their firearms on the street and 15 percent had taken firearms from their homes. The ATF was unable to determine how juveniles secured firearms in the remaining 20 percent of the traces.

Juveniles who commit violent crimes involving firearms frequently use stolen guns. The ATF found that 32 percent of firearms used by juveniles in committing violent crimes were taken in burglaries and other thefts, 25 percent were obtained by juveniles from persons other than parents or guardians, and 21 percent were purchased on the street.

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2/23/2018  2:23 PM
Juvenile Court Judge: Teen Gun Violence On The Rise

15-year-old Niaa Savagee was shot and killed Tuesday night on Crenshaw Street. Police confirmed Thursday; the gun used was possibly stolen from an unlocked vehicle at Saturday's Mardi Gras parade.

Even though a suspect has not been named, Juvenile Court Judge Ed Naman says gun violence among teenagers is getting out of hand.

"One of the biggest problems is, there is no adult supervision. I'm so tired of hearing parents begging me to let children out because they've had a gun or charged with some kind of gun crime and I think to myself, you know you had complete control of this situation. You knew who your children were hanging around, you're not paying attention to them, you're not taking the care that you need to be taking care of and now you're asking me after the fact to let them out," says Naman.

Adam Cannedy is a gun court probation officer. Today alone, he will see 51 juveniles in court who have been charged with a gun crime.

"That number is very high, it's the highest we've had since we started our gun court program. We had a lot of gun charges and gun crimes in 2016 and that's why the number is as high as it is," says Cannedy.

According to Cannedy, most teenagers get guns by stealing them out of cars.

Naman says teenagers carry guns for one of two reasons. One--they've been glorified so they think it's cool, or two--they're being bullied and think showing a gun will protect them.

"When the consequences of carrying a gun outweigh their perceived reward of carrying a gun, then maybe we will have an impact on lowering these numbers," says Cannedy.

As for the Crenshaw Street shooting—officials have confirmed a gun was found on the scene and are looking for a male suspect. Police are also looking into the fact that it could have also been a suicide. They are still waiting on autopsy results.

martin
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2/23/2018  2:34 PM
djsunyc wrote:
arkrud wrote:
djsunyc wrote:
arkrud wrote:
djsunyc wrote:only in this stupid ass country is gun culture acceptable.

dumb
stupid
moronic
idiots

Countries are piece of land and cannot be stupid or smart.
People can be but they are all different.
But in one thing they are similar - they all try to find excuses for their actions and non-actions.
And pointing to the country or culture is 2 most used excuses.
So instead of doing something about the issue we will continue to point fingers to find "Who is to blame" instead of figuring out "What to Do".

there is nothing to do except hope more non-whites continue to have children. these gun/killing laws were created by and upheld by old white men. until law makers stop being white men nothing really will change. that may take generations though.

side question, why is it legal to sell guns but not legal to sell cocaine?

Do you think Asians and Latinos who will be a majority in the country in 20-30 years and will be elected to be law makers are less in love with the guns?
I agree with cocaine - should be legal. Will not help to eliminate whites zo as they prefer painkillers...

i do believe non-whites will be way more anti-gun than whites and the laws will reflect it. but may not be in my lifetime.

and this is not an "eliminate whites" racist post. demographics in this country are naturally changing as there is more race mixing and more immigrants. (and a big reason why trump won using identity politics). that's just how things are going. and my stance is that as the demographics change we will see laws change as more law makers will become more representative of the country.

Very interesting to me to watch Texas to see how fast it turns from Red to Blue, as soon as it flips federal elections will be very tough for R's

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2/23/2018  2:35 PM
Reduce Youth Involvement With Guns, Drugs, and Gangs
Overview

The involvement of judges, prosecutors, social service providers, law enforcement officers, crime victims, community-based organizations, and others is critical to improving the juvenile justice system and reducing youth violence. The Action Plan supports interagency law enforcement teams, or task forces, that coordinate the investigative efforts and suppression tactics of Federal, State, and local law enforcement agencies in weapons, drug, and gang arrests.

In many communities, law enforcement has taken the lead in implementing innovative juvenile crime prevention and intervention efforts as part of an overall community oriented policing approach. Successful public safety and prevention strategies provide comprehensive, targeted community services and support to youth to keep them from becoming the next generation of offenders. Youth-focused community oriented policing that is effectively linked to the juvenile justice system can significantly contribute to the reduction of crime, restoration of order, and eradication of fear in local communities.

This section addresses four primary problem areas in which law enforcement plays a critical leading role: juvenile gun violence; the combination of youth, guns, and drugs; the link between drugs and delinquency; and youth gangs. Examples of programs illustrate effective ways of finding solutions to each of these problems in local communities. The Action Plan supports strong measures to prevent juveniles from using guns illegally and to remove guns from schools through youth-focused community oriented policing, reducing the availability of firearms to youth, strengthening anti-drug and anti-gang measures, and building healthy communities through expanded youth opportunities.

The Action Plan also supports the development of model juvenile handgun legislation to facilitate law enforcement activities. Further, it encourages the efforts of school officials to remove guns from schools, and supports the dissemination of information on promising juvenile gun violence reduction programs, and the provision of technical assistance to achieve those goals.

Current Status and Analysis of the Problem

Juvenile Gun Violence

A trend analysis of juvenile homicide offenses shows that since the mid-1970's, the number of homicides in which no firearm was involved has remained fairly constant. However, homicides by juveniles involving a firearm have increased nearly threefold. In addition, during this same period, the number of juvenile arrests for weapons violations increased 117 percent. When guns are the weapon of choice, juvenile violence becomes deadly.

Because recent crime statistics excluding homicides gathered by the Federal Bureau of Investigation do not show all chargeable offenses involved in a particular incident, there is no reliable way to determine how many crimes involved a weapon, what was the nature of any injury, or whether the crime involved illicit drugs. Therefore, it is difficult to determine the precise role that guns and illegal drugs have played in the recent increase in violent juvenile crime. Although there are gaps, the data make a compelling case that the role of guns in juvenile-related homicides is increasing at an unprecedented level.

During the period 1976 to 1991, firearms were used by 65 percent of juvenile homicide offenders (44 percent used handguns). Firearms were used in nearly 8 out of 10 juvenile homicides in 1991, compared with 6 out of 10 in 1976.

Young black males have the most elevated homicide victimization rate of any race or gender group. Homicides involving firearms have been the leading cause of death for black males ages 15 to 19 since 1969, and the rates more than doubled in the decade from 1979 (40 deaths per 100,000) to 1989 (85 deaths per 100,000).3 Teenage boys in all racial and ethnic groups are more likely to die from gunshot wounds than from all natural causes combined.

Between 1979 and 1991, the rate of suicide among youth ages 15 to 19 increased 31 percent. In 1991, 1,899 youth ages 15 to 19 committed suicide, a rate of 11 per 100,000 youth in this age group. Firearms were used in 6 out of 10 suicides among youth ages 15 to 19 in 1989.

In 1990, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention surveyed a nationally representative sample of 9th- to 12th-grade students about the number of times they had carried a weapon such as a gun, knife, or club during the prior 30 days. One in 20 students indicated he or she had carried a firearm, usually a handgun. A number of additional surveys confirm an increased propensity among young people to carry guns. The increased availability of guns and access to guns by youth have had devastating consequences on schools and communities. In many schools, learning is no longer the top priority; survival concerns lead many students to avoid school entirely or carry weapons for protection. Educators must divert attention from academics to monitor and control student aggression. In neighborhoods, people are apprehensive about going outside their homes, and fights that once involved fists have become deadly exchanges.

Youth, Guns, and Drugs

The Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention (OJJDP) is currently supporting research on the causes and correlates of delinquency and has found a strong relationship among illegal gun possession by juveniles, delinquency, and drug use. Nearly 3 in 4 juveniles who illegally possessed guns committed some type of street crime; 1 in 4 committed a gun- related crime; and 4 out of 10 used drugs.7

Drug activity appears to exacerbate juvenile violence in two ways. First, firearms are more prevalent around drug activity.8 In 1984, the United States saw a dramatic increase in juvenile gun homicide, coinciding with the introduction of crack cocaine into urban communities. Studies show that as the use of guns by drug-involved youth increases, other young people obtain guns for their own protection. This cycle of fear or "diffusion" theory9 is supported by recent research on the "ecology of danger."10 A 1993 Louis Harris poll showed that 35 percent of children ages 6 to 12 fear their lives will be cut short by gun violence,11 and a longitudinal study of 1,500 Pittsburgh, PA, boys revealed that their frequency of carrying a concealed weapon increased when they began selling drugs.12

The second way drugs and juvenile gun violence appear related is through the impact of drugs on a young person's perceptions. Adolescence is a time of taking risks and seeking stimulation, and juvenile delinquents report a certain level of excitement as well as fear of apprehension in the commission of a crime. Many youth revel at the thrill of roller coasters, some ignore cautions about "safe sex," and others seek an "ultimate high" from illicit drugs or possession of a deadly weapon.

Drugs and Delinquency

Although researchers have not established a definite causal link between drug use and delinquency, they have confirmed a delinquency-illegal drug use correlation. In the 1987 Survey of Children in Custody, 81 percent of wards in State-operated institutions responded affirmatively when questioned about lifetime use of drugs. Nearly half (48 percent) admitted to being under the influence of drugs or alcohol while committing the offense for which they were institutionalized. Although there is some variance across offense categories, the percentage of institutionalized wards who reported being under the influence of drugs or alcohol at the time of the offense ranged from 34 percent in the case of rape offenses to 51 percent for robberies and 59 percent for drug possession.

Although the link between drug use by juveniles involved in serious delinquency and by those not attending school is well documented, drug use by another segment of the youth population not considered to be at risk students who have progressed to their senior year in high school also continues to be the focus of serious concern. According to the results of a 1994 national household survey, monthly marijuana use among 12- to 17- year-olds nearly doubled from 1992 to 1994 -- from 4.0 percent of students surveyed to 7.3 percent -- following a steady decline in drug use from 1979 to 1992. The survey also reported that 2 million youth rate themselves as heavy alcohol drinkers, with over 1 billion cans of beer being consumed annually by junior and senior high school students alone.

Youth Gangs

Today, youth gangs exist in nearly every State. One expert estimates that more than 3,875 youth gangs with a total of more than 200,000 gang members are established in the 79 largest U.S. cities. Gang activity has extended beyond the inner city of major population centers into smaller communities and suburbs. Today's gangs are best characterized by their diversity in ethnic composition, geographical location, organization, and the nature and extent of members' involvement in delinquent and/or criminal activities. In the 79 U.S. cities with populations over 200,000, 91 percent reported having a gang problem that had spread from the streets into areas traditionally considered safe havens, such as schools. In the Chicago metropolitan area, all public and some parochial high schools, including many in suburban Cook County, reported evidence of gang activity.

Researchers have identified a number of factors that put youth at risk of gang involvement: poverty, school failure, substance abuse, family dysfunction, and domestic and societal violence. Easy access to illicit drugs and the perceived financial rewards of drug dealing pose attractive alternatives for youth with inadequate education and limited employment opportunities, leading them into high-risk behaviors and potential gang involvement. Gang recruits often have a poor self-image, low self-esteem, and little adult participation in their lives. Some of them are children of gang members and are choosing a familiar lifestyle. Many are seeking the recognition they fail to receive from home or school. Even parents with strong parenting skills cannot ensure that their children will not become involved in gangs, particularly in low-income, problem-ridden neighborhoods.

Youth gang research has focused extensively on the gang-drug nexus. Recent research, however, suggests that there is also a significant connection among gang involvement, gang violence, and firearms. In one study based on responses from 835 male inmates in 6 juvenile correctional facilities in 4 States, researchers found that movement from nongang membership to gang membership brought increases in most forms of gun-involved conduct. Forty-five percent described gun theft as a regular gang activity. Sixty-eight percent said their gang regularly bought and sold guns, and 61 percent described "driving around shooting at people you don't like" as a regular gang activity.

Additionally, experts report that gangs appear to be increasing their organizational sophistication and their propensity for individual and collective violence. These structural and behavioral changes are often, but not universally, attributed to the impact of the drug trade and the availability of firearms. Another study indicates that gang homicide settings differ from nongang homicide settings in that they are more likely to involve public areas, automobiles, and firearms, among other elements. The researchers further speculate that location, automobile involvement, and gun presence suggest potential points of intervention.

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2/23/2018  2:43 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/23/2018  2:45 PM
Sorry about the mass posts, but it's only fair for a balanced discussion. If some posters are going to post statistics on who owns guns (legally), for perspective, we should try and remember who is committing most gun related violence and the source of those guns.
fishmike
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2/23/2018  3:39 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:http://NRA Leader Warns Conservatives Of 'Socialist Wave' In Wake Of Shooting - NPR
https://apple.news/AWc7Xka2cTuuH-aRGe5nNkA

Seems like a sensible guy. An ofcourse unbiased. Here is another piranha.

Your type of crowd?

Not at all... yours?

You ready about the dickey amendment yet?

Gudris
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2/23/2018  4:46 PM
arkrud wrote:
Gudris wrote:Why in the USA where everybody has ''protection'' guns, homicide level is much higher than in countries with no guns?

USA is on 94th place in murder rates (per 100,000 inhabitants) out of 219.
In the middle of the pack being 4.88.
For comparison Russia has 11.31 and is on 38 place.
Russian gun related murder rate is small comparing to US.
But what is the diff if one killed by gun, knife, hummer, or by hands.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate


You just made my point stronger, you are in the same group as Africa, South America, and Russia, reason to be proud :D
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2/23/2018  5:38 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/23/2018  5:39 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:http://NRA Leader Warns Conservatives Of 'Socialist Wave' In Wake Of Shooting - NPR
https://apple.news/AWc7Xka2cTuuH-aRGe5nNkA

Seems like a sensible guy. An ofcourse unbiased. Here is another piranha.

Your type of crowd?

Wasn’t there a mass shooting in Kansas City last saturday? Ok, I’ll answer the question, yes there was. It was black gang members shooting up a party, where’s the national coverage? Gang violence is a real problem, but the media chose not to cover that mass shooting. It might sound harsh and uncaring, but she is calling out the media for their double standard and yet that message is lost

HofstraBBall
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2/23/2018  6:20 PM
Rookie wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:http://NRA Leader Warns Conservatives Of 'Socialist Wave' In Wake Of Shooting - NPR
https://apple.news/AWc7Xka2cTuuH-aRGe5nNkA

Seems like a sensible guy. An ofcourse unbiased. Here is another piranha.

Your type of crowd?

Wasn’t there a mass shooting in Kansas City last saturday? Ok, I’ll answer the question, yes there was. It was black gang members shooting up a party, where’s the national coverage? Gang violence is a real problem, but the media chose not to cover that mass shooting. It might sound harsh and uncaring, but she is calling out the media for their double standard and yet that message is lost

Agree it's a problem. Both are tragic. Did I miss the same NRA spokesperson speak against that shooting as well? Or Call black mothers "media gold". What that thing said was insensitive to those that just lost one of their kids. You have kids? Karma is a bitch, and so is that spokes spider.

HofstraBBall
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2/23/2018  6:34 PM
Gudris wrote:
arkrud wrote:
Gudris wrote:Why in the USA where everybody has ''protection'' guns, homicide level is much higher than in countries with no guns?

USA is on 94th place in murder rates (per 100,000 inhabitants) out of 219.
In the middle of the pack being 4.88.
For comparison Russia has 11.31 and is on 38 place.
Russian gun related murder rate is small comparing to US.
But what is the diff if one killed by gun, knife, hummer, or by hands.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate


You just made my point stronger, you are in the same group as Africa, South America, and Russia, reason to be proud :D

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/21/17028930/gun-violence-us-statistics-charts

GustavBahler
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2/23/2018  6:55 PM
Rookie, would appreciate it if you would post a link to those articles. Would appreciate your take on this article.

http://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/philando-castiles-mom-blasts-nras-lapierre-cared-good-guys-wouldve-stood-son/amp/

Elizabeth Preza

Philando Castile’s mom blasts NRA’s LaPierre: ‘If he cared about the good guys, he would’ve stood up for my son’

Valerie Castile, the mother of Philando Castile, slammed National Rifle Association chief Wayne LaPierre for staying silent over the death of her son after he told a crowd at the Conservative Political Action Conference Thursday, “the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.”

“If he really cared about the good guys out here, he would have stood up for my son,” Valerie Castile told the New York Daily News. “It’s about money. This country is run off money. Everybody wants a piece.”

“My son was one of the good guys, but him being black, obviously they didn’t see him as a good guy,” she said. “They’ve yet to say anything about my son.”

Philando Castile, was shot and killed by a St. Anthony Police officer in an incident that was live-streamed on Facebook. He had informed the officer he was licensed to carry and had a pistol on him. The officer subsequently fired seven shots at Castile; he was later acquitted.

The NRA never released an official statement about Castile’s death. On Facebook, the group referred to “reports from Minnesota” and said it would “not comment while the investigation is ongoing.” As the Washington Post reports, “unlike its reaction to the Minnesota shooting, the NRA released a statement hours after the attack in Dallas early Friday morning left five police officers dead.”

NRA spokeswoman Dana Loesch later said the organization had no obligation to defend Castile because he was “in possession of a controlled substance” and his gun at the time, which is illegal. She later clarified that she was not speaking in her capacity as a spokeswoman, and neither herself nor the NRA issued a further statement on Castile’s murder.

“[LaPierre] didn’t say anything because my son was black,” Valerie Castile said. “My son went through the same programs as every gun owner. But they started nitpicking, ‘He should have done this, he should have done that.’ The bottom line is that he told the officer he had a weapon, and the officer became a selfish man, only thinking about his own life and family. He chose to shoot my son several times. One of the bullets was 16 inches from that baby in the backseat.”

Valerie Castile told the Daily News that Wayne LaPierre’s CPAC speech proves the organization’s hypocrisy. She also said the organization’s focus on “hardening schools” in response to the Parkland massacre is a bad idea.

“Arming the schools will make them more like a battlefield,” she said. If everyone has guns, bullets will be flying everywhere. You’ll end up with more bodies.”

Philando Castile was a cafeteria manager for the St. Paul school district when he was killed.

“He loved the kids,” Valerie Castile said. “He never took the summer vacation. He knew all those children’s names and all their allergies.”

“He was a good guy,” she repeated. “He went through a rigorous process to get his gun. He told the truth and let the officer know he had it. What happened to my good guy? He was shot down like an animal. He was still in his seatbelt. That car was his coffin.”

arkrud
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2/23/2018  9:21 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/23/2018  9:22 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
Gudris wrote:
arkrud wrote:
Gudris wrote:Why in the USA where everybody has ''protection'' guns, homicide level is much higher than in countries with no guns?

USA is on 94th place in murder rates (per 100,000 inhabitants) out of 219.
In the middle of the pack being 4.88.
For comparison Russia has 11.31 and is on 38 place.
Russian gun related murder rate is small comparing to US.
But what is the diff if one killed by gun, knife, hummer, or by hands.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate


You just made my point stronger, you are in the same group as Africa, South America, and Russia, reason to be proud :D

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/21/17028930/gun-violence-us-statistics-charts

This is not about being proud. This is reality.
Country that build just 200 years back on the power of the gun should have special love to it.
America is still wild and far away from settle down if it ever will.
People who come here over and over again are ready to fight for the piece of American opportunity by any means they know.
Violence included. So we need very strong law to keep most of the people alive.
If you consider civilized countries with humanity being the value above all, America is not this country.
Quite opposite.

He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
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2/23/2018  10:24 PM
arkrud wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Gudris wrote:
arkrud wrote:
Gudris wrote:Why in the USA where everybody has ''protection'' guns, homicide level is much higher than in countries with no guns?

USA is on 94th place in murder rates (per 100,000 inhabitants) out of 219.
In the middle of the pack being 4.88.
For comparison Russia has 11.31 and is on 38 place.
Russian gun related murder rate is small comparing to US.
But what is the diff if one killed by gun, knife, hummer, or by hands.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate


You just made my point stronger, you are in the same group as Africa, South America, and Russia, reason to be proud :D

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/21/17028930/gun-violence-us-statistics-charts

This is not about being proud. This is reality.
Country that build just 200 years back on the power of the gun should have special love to it.
America is still wild and far away from settle down if it ever will.
People who come here over and over again are ready to fight for the piece of American opportunity by any means they know.
Violence included. So we need very strong law to keep most of the people alive.
If you consider civilized countries with humanity being the value above all, America is not this country.
Quite opposite.

Maybe we just need a common enemy to reunite us. Never underestimate the poewer of ❤️.

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2/23/2018  10:27 PM
Russia, china iran n korea smell my fart :)
TPercy
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2/25/2018  6:19 PM
martin wrote:
Gudris wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:what I find fascinating is that high school students are leading the charge. Us adults have failed them. Kudos to them for recognizing that and recognizing that this **** isn't normal. I really applaud them for their ability to stand up and take action during what would normally be the "thoughts and prayers" stage

They have more information from the outside USA, they see how students live in normal countries without guns. Less than a half of adults have been outside of USA, so they think it is normal how they live.

I doubt it.

Kids aren't yet influenced by $$$ and aren't as misinformed by read/watch on TV because their sources of info aren't locked in and bad info isn't as ingrained.


Are you kidding me? These kids are worse than the adults. They believe that the NRA is a child murdering organization and that politicians that take money from them are also child murders even though the NRA are a very financially weak institution compared to other donor groups. Seriously Martin, explain to me how an organization of 5 million members totalling meager revenues $350 million can effectively buy politicians vote on an issue that is so fundemntal to millions of americans.Do the math, it dosen't add up. These kids are defending the coward officer that didn't go in to the building while actual students put their bodies on the line for each other. These kids have defended the the deputy that didn't go in to confront the shooter while kids got sprayed. They don't know what the hell they are talking about.
The Future is Bright!
TPercy
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2/25/2018  6:21 PM
I like Dana a lot but saying that the media love mass murderers isn't helping the discussion at all. In fact, it is ending it. We can't have a conversation about guns in this country if both sides continue to slander their opponents with bad intentions.
The Future is Bright!
martin
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2/25/2018  6:57 PM
TPercy wrote:
martin wrote:
Gudris wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:what I find fascinating is that high school students are leading the charge. Us adults have failed them. Kudos to them for recognizing that and recognizing that this **** isn't normal. I really applaud them for their ability to stand up and take action during what would normally be the "thoughts and prayers" stage

They have more information from the outside USA, they see how students live in normal countries without guns. Less than a half of adults have been outside of USA, so they think it is normal how they live.

I doubt it.

Kids aren't yet influenced by $$$ and aren't as misinformed by read/watch on TV because their sources of info aren't locked in and bad info isn't as ingrained.


Are you kidding me? These kids are worse than the adults. They believe that the NRA is a child murdering organization and that politicians that take money from them are also child murders even though the NRA are a very financially weak institution compared to other donor groups. Seriously Martin, explain to me how an organization of 5 million members totalling meager revenues $350 million can effectively buy politicians vote on an issue that is so fundemntal to millions of americans.Do the math, it dosen't add up. These kids are defending the coward officer that didn't go in to the building while actual students put their bodies on the line for each other. These kids have defended the the deputy that didn't go in to confront the shooter while kids got sprayed. They don't know what the hell they are talking about.

Feel like what you responded with really has no no direct correlation to do with the topic I responded to.

If you feel the kids in this incident as a whole do not match up to the primary adults - in this case the NRA and their related politicians - feel free to provide that information. I haven't see it as you have laid out.

And I do not personally understand why politicians have seemed to fall in line with the NRA nor do I understand the full nature of the NRA's funding but they do seem to have a firm grasp on R's.

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TPercy
Posts: 24886
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/5/2014
Member: #5748

2/25/2018  8:54 PM
martin wrote:
TPercy wrote:
martin wrote:
Gudris wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:what I find fascinating is that high school students are leading the charge. Us adults have failed them. Kudos to them for recognizing that and recognizing that this **** isn't normal. I really applaud them for their ability to stand up and take action during what would normally be the "thoughts and prayers" stage

They have more information from the outside USA, they see how students live in normal countries without guns. Less than a half of adults have been outside of USA, so they think it is normal how they live.

I doubt it.

Kids aren't yet influenced by $$$ and aren't as misinformed by read/watch on TV because their sources of info aren't locked in and bad info isn't as ingrained.


Are you kidding me? These kids are worse than the adults. They believe that the NRA is a child murdering organization and that politicians that take money from them are also child murders even though the NRA are a very financially weak institution compared to other donor groups. Seriously Martin, explain to me how an organization of 5 million members totalling meager revenues $350 million can effectively buy politicians vote on an issue that is so fundemntal to millions of americans.Do the math, it dosen't add up. These kids are defending the coward officer that didn't go in to the building while actual students put their bodies on the line for each other. These kids have defended the the deputy that didn't go in to confront the shooter while kids got sprayed. They don't know what the hell they are talking about.

Feel like what you responded with really has no no direct correlation to do with the topic I responded to.

If you feel the kids in this incident as a whole do not match up to the primary adults - in this case the NRA and their related politicians - feel free to provide that information. I haven't see it as you have laid out.

And I do not personally understand why politicians have seemed to fall in line with the NRA nor do I understand the full nature of the NRA's funding but they do seem to have a firm grasp on R's.


You stated that the kids aren't misinformed when they clearly are. At the CNN Town Hall and in numerous interviews with media they have referred to the NRA as mass murderers and people who are buying politicians for their votes as the reason this country lacks "common sense" gun reform that would have prevented these shootings when that is clearly not the case. They haven't aided the gun debate at all unless you consider pissing off millions of gun owners/ like-minded conservatives around the country.

The only reason why the NRA appears to have a firm grasp on R's is that it is a lie that has been repeated over and over again by media outlets, politicians, late-night comedy, and celebrities. As previously stated, their revenues total $350 million and they make up 5 million members( about $70 per member which is nothing). They aren't even top 100 in Campaign donations or Lobbying. The so-called $200 million they have spent since 1990 has been matched by Corporate donations to Democrats in a single election cycle. If the issue had anything to do with money, Bloomberg would have been able to buy out all the Republicans with NRA funding. Guns are just an issue that is central to a lot of those on the right and the NRA are great at getting them out to vote. If these kids want to show that they are different than the adults who just spew talking points from their favorite news anchor, then they will actually do the research, use sound logic and evidence to make SPECIFIC policy proposals.

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martin
Posts: 47847
Alba Posts: 106
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
2/25/2018  9:17 PM
TPercy wrote:
martin wrote:
TPercy wrote:
martin wrote:
Gudris wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:what I find fascinating is that high school students are leading the charge. Us adults have failed them. Kudos to them for recognizing that and recognizing that this **** isn't normal. I really applaud them for their ability to stand up and take action during what would normally be the "thoughts and prayers" stage

They have more information from the outside USA, they see how students live in normal countries without guns. Less than a half of adults have been outside of USA, so they think it is normal how they live.

I doubt it.

Kids aren't yet influenced by $$$ and aren't as misinformed by read/watch on TV because their sources of info aren't locked in and bad info isn't as ingrained.


Are you kidding me? These kids are worse than the adults. They believe that the NRA is a child murdering organization and that politicians that take money from them are also child murders even though the NRA are a very financially weak institution compared to other donor groups. Seriously Martin, explain to me how an organization of 5 million members totalling meager revenues $350 million can effectively buy politicians vote on an issue that is so fundemntal to millions of americans.Do the math, it dosen't add up. These kids are defending the coward officer that didn't go in to the building while actual students put their bodies on the line for each other. These kids have defended the the deputy that didn't go in to confront the shooter while kids got sprayed. They don't know what the hell they are talking about.

Feel like what you responded with really has no no direct correlation to do with the topic I responded to.

If you feel the kids in this incident as a whole do not match up to the primary adults - in this case the NRA and their related politicians - feel free to provide that information. I haven't see it as you have laid out.

And I do not personally understand why politicians have seemed to fall in line with the NRA nor do I understand the full nature of the NRA's funding but they do seem to have a firm grasp on R's.


You stated that the kids aren't misinformed when they clearly are. At the CNN Town Hall and in numerous interviews with media they have referred to the NRA as mass murderers and people who are buying politicians for their votes as the reason this country lacks "common sense" gun reform that would have prevented these shootings when that is clearly not the case. They haven't aided the gun debate at all unless you consider pissing off millions of gun owners/ like-minded conservatives around the country.

The only reason why the NRA appears to have a firm grasp on R's is that it is a lie that has been repeated over and over again by media outlets, politicians, late-night comedy, and celebrities. As previously stated, their revenues total $350 million and they make up 5 million members( about $70 per member which is nothing). They aren't even top 100 in Campaign donations or Lobbying. The so-called $200 million they have spent since 1990 has been matched by Corporate donations to Democrats in a single election cycle. If the issue had anything to do with money, Bloomberg would have been able to buy out all the Republicans with NRA funding. Guns are just an issue that is central to a lot of those on the right and the NRA are great at getting them out to vote. If these kids want to show that they are different than the adults who just spew talking points from their favorite news anchor, then they will actually do the research, use sound logic and evidence to make SPECIFIC policy proposals.

I guess that's one take, I don't find too much in common with it.

This incident and the kids and people around it have had a profound affect on the debate moving forward, I hope it continues.

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