Proclaim everyone has to go and start over.
Rinse, Lather, repeat.
What am I forgetting?

1. We don't develop picks until we develop picks.
2. We don't sign free agents.
3. Woe is me, the poor knick fan.
4. Jeremy lin never really happened.
5. MDA died for our sins.
6. We need a Pop clone.
7. Mecca deserves better!
8. Mark Jax is our savior! He from NYC and understands how to read a subway map!
9. Phil never did anything right. When he did, it was an accident.
10. Michael Rappaport is a great actor.
11. Lebron rumors.
12. Willy will have a good game rage.
13. "Get in the truck"? Feels like Knick fans have been in the truck for years!!!
14. Melo will win a chip. Golden Mooby envy will ensue.
15. The word "Starphuching" will be added to Martins bad word list.

Nalod wrote:

TheGame wrote:Tanking really only means playing young guys who don't yet have the experience to win close games. I still want the team to play hard and try to win but it makes no sense to play Jack, Lee, and Kanter huge minutes, especially Jack who definitely is not going to be apart of the future of this team. Let Frank, Burke, Kornet, Dotson, and the other young guns get playing time. Let them learn from their mistakes and hopefully by the end of the year you have done three things: 1) you have made your record worse to improve draft position; 2) you have given the young guys plenty of film on things they can work on in the summer; and 3) the young guys have hopefully improved with the added playing time. Tanking is a good thing for a team in our position.

But when we lose (tank) the fans here react that if we are not playing well, we need to replace those very players.

The team cannot worry about shortsighted fans. We need another young potential superstar and we are only getting that with a top-7 pick this year. We are around pick 10 now, so we have a lot of tanking left to do. Again, the team needs to play hard and Jeff needs to coach but I would not play the vets. If fans see the players playing hard, they will forgive.

yet this is a tank? NO. it's a ****ty ****ing team that can't win. How does playing LT 14 minutes and Jarrett Jack constitute an attempt at tanking? It's not. The team isn't trying to build anything. Now I have to read this BS? you're just butt hurt that this team blows -- again -- and you want to pull the I-told-you-so card when really you should just concede that the Knicks ****ed up, yet again, by not blowing this **** up

SupremeCommander wrote:the hypocrisy of the anti-tankers is that we still have a bunch of vets... we are not FEATURING our youth... we did not trade our vets for picks... Courtney Lee, Jarrett Jack, KOQ all played meaningful minutes and could've been traded for future assets... Lance ****ing Thomas got 14 minutes last night...

yet this is a tank? NO. it's a ****ty ****ing team that can't win. How does playing LT 14 minutes and Jarrett Jack constitute an attempt at tanking? It's not. The team isn't trying to build anything. Now I have to read this BS? you're just butt hurt that this team blows -- again -- and you want to pull the I-told-you-so card when really you should just concede that the Knicks ****ed up, yet again, by not blowing this **** up

All the minimum contract guys had/have no trade value

Burke, Sessions ( cut) , Jack, Beasley

If any other team wanted them, they could have had them long ago.

No one wants Lee's age 33/34 years.

The value of rim protection is not what it used to be. KOQ has some truly baffling moments out there as well.

The "organic" method of tanking is trading off, as you say, veterans, so you don't have a roster that can do better than develop young players and lose. The problem is the same reason the Knicks don't want Player X or Y, is the same why no other team wants them as well.

You appear to be operating under the premise that the Knicks could have traded these player for positive assets. The answer is always "The Mirror Test" '

If the Knicks had another teams situation and roster and asset base, and they had the Knicks, would you want your beloved team to trade valuable assets for Lance Thomas? Lee? Jack? Then why would they?

Nalod wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:the hypocrisy of the anti-tankers is that we still have a bunch of vets... we are not FEATURING our youth... we did not trade our vets for picks... Courtney Lee, Jarrett Jack, KOQ all played meaningful minutes and could've been traded for future assets... Lance ****ing Thomas got 14 minutes last night...

yet this is a tank? NO. it's a ****ty ****ing team that can't win. How does playing LT 14 minutes and Jarrett Jack constitute an attempt at tanking? It's not. The team isn't trying to build anything. Now I have to read this BS? you're just butt hurt that this team blows -- again -- and you want to pull the I-told-you-so card when really you should just concede that the Knicks ****ed up, yet again, by not blowing this **** up

You dont' have to read any of this. Nor do I.
How was Clee tradable when Joe Johnson and Belinelli were bought out and were available for free? KOQ is expiring, and what team wanted him for a pick?
Lance also. Are playing the kids without vets a learning experience? Jack played small minutes.
"Could have been traded for future assets".....

Young players cannot be developed in the vacuum.
This is NBA not a street ball. Team needs structure and bunch of young dudes cannot provide this.
Team needs players on every position to keep the structure.
When young guys will be able (if ever) they will replace veterans.
So far our "future assets" are not capable of this.
They need to earn it.
This is what is all this season about.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:Some of you are very funny. Preach the tank. Forget that to do so means losing games. You expect youth to play well, yet lose.
See no benefit to this learning curve and then forget that tanking actually means losing, and losing means you don't out play your opponent.
Along the way you have close games and stinkers. Indy not so bad. Philly, Aweful play by the roots.
Then after the loss rage on.
Pick one:
Frank: "and don't tell me he is just 19"
THjr: "whose the Princeton Cunt that signed this guy!!!" Respond with "You prefer Alan Crabbe?"
KP: "He sucked before he got hurt". Respond "24, 7 and defense does not suck!"
Kanter: "can't play a lick of Defense"
Horny: "We need a new coach", Respond "How's that working for continuity?"
Mundiay: "Dude is awful", Respond "Low risk acquisition and low contract and just 21 years old!!"
Then, add like 10 draft picks for 2 spots.
In the odd chance we win, then rage how stupid it is.
Make sure you blame Phil, melo and for good measure Donnie Walsh. Fall back safe space is "we need a new owner".
And never forget that if you can think of a deal, knicks should do it.

Proclaim everyone has to go and start over.
Rinse, Lather, repeat.
What am I forgetting?

1. We don't develop picks until we develop picks.
2. We don't sign free agents.
3. Woe is me, the poor knick fan.
4. Jeremy lin never really happened.
5. MDA died for our sins.
6. We need a Pop clone.
7. Mecca deserves better!
8. Mark Jax is our savior! He from NYC and understands how to read a subway map!
9. Phil never did anything right. When he did, it was an accident.
10. Michael Rappaport is a great actor.
11. Lebron rumors.
12. Willy will have a good game rage.
13. "Get in the truck"? Feels like Knick fans have been in the truck for years!!!
14. Melo will win a chip. Golden Mooby envy will ensue.
15. The word "Starphuching" will be added to Martins bad word list.

Lol. Those are some good thread titles!

Think the issue is not where we are but where we are headed. Neither have a good look. Nor has it looked good since 2012.

Agree with some that if you are going to rebuild, do so 100%. Cheap vets that help from the bench, young picks getting 25-30 minutes a night. Made no sense to get rid of Melo yet sign Timmy to an average of $18M a year. Beasley is showing that a guy for vets minimum could have the same kind of impact without tying up CAP space.

Going forward it would be more fun to let D league call ups and our young picks play most of the game. If they get killed fine. Better than watching Timmy go 1 for 8 from three, Lee shoot 100% (4 for 4)from free throw line without driving to the hoop, LT trying to make a 3pt. shot and KO pick up 3 fouls in 5 minutes.

Line up:
Kanter - Kormet
Beasley - Hicks
Timmy - Lee
Frank - Dotson
Mudiay - Burke

Hornachek doesn't have the guts to play the youngsters and bench Lance, Jack. Cares more about winning than our future. I used to like him but Horny is a jerk. I can see why KP disliked him last year, Noah this year

SupremeCommander wrote:the hypocrisy of the anti-tankers is that we still have a bunch of vets... we are not FEATURING our youth... we did not trade our vets for picks... Courtney Lee, Jarrett Jack, KOQ all played meaningful minutes and could've been traded for future assets... Lance ****ing Thomas got 14 minutes last night...

yet this is a tank? NO. it's a ****ty ****ing team that can't win. How does playing LT 14 minutes and Jarrett Jack constitute an attempt at tanking? It's not. The team isn't trying to build anything. Now I have to read this BS? you're just butt hurt that this team blows -- again -- and you want to pull the I-told-you-so card when really you should just concede that the Knicks ****ed up, yet again, by not blowing this **** up

I don't understand this statement. Frank is averaging 20 minutes a game unless he really ****s up, and quite frankly he doesn't deserve all of those minutes. Baker got underserved minutes. Kanter starts. Dotson sits behind Lee/THJr and (earlier) McD. KP got lots of minutes.

Which of the young guys do you think deserved long term minutes? Also balance out the need to try to win and the .500 record for the first like 40 games.

What path would you have taken that featured the youth? Who are you benching?

Nalod wrote:Some of you are very funny. Preach the tank. Forget that to do so means losing games. You expect youth to play well, yet lose.
See no benefit to this learning curve and then forget that tanking actually means losing, and losing means you don't out play your opponent.
Along the way you have close games and stinkers. Indy not so bad. Philly, Aweful play by the roots.
Then after the loss rage on.
Pick one:
Frank: "and don't tell me he is just 19"
THjr: "whose the Princeton Cunt that signed this guy!!!" Respond with "You prefer Alan Crabbe?"
KP: "He sucked before he got hurt". Respond "24, 7 and defense does not suck!"
Kanter: "can't play a lick of Defense"
Horny: "We need a new coach", Respond "How's that working for continuity?"
Mundiay: "Dude is awful", Respond "Low risk acquisition and low contract and just 21 years old!!"
Then, add like 10 draft picks for 2 spots.
In the odd chance we win, then rage how stupid it is.
Make sure you blame Phil, melo and for good measure Donnie Walsh. Fall back safe space is "we need a new owner".
And never forget that if you can think of a deal, knicks should do it.

Proclaim everyone has to go and start over.
Rinse, Lather, repeat.
What am I forgetting?

1. We don't develop picks until we develop picks.
2. We don't sign free agents.
3. Woe is me, the poor knick fan.
4. Jeremy lin never really happened.
5. MDA died for our sins.
6. We need a Pop clone.
7. Mecca deserves better!
8. Mark Jax is our savior! He from NYC and understands how to read a subway map!
9. Phil never did anything right. When he did, it was an accident.
10. Michael Rappaport is a great actor.
11. Lebron rumors.
12. Willy will have a good game rage.
13. "Get in the truck"? Feels like Knick fans have been in the truck for years!!!
14. Melo will win a chip. Golden Mooby envy will ensue.
15. The word "Starphuching" will be added to Martins bad word list.

OK so what's your point?

TheGame wrote:Tanking really only means playing young guys who don't yet have the experience to win close games. I still want the team to play hard and try to win but it makes no sense to play Jack, Lee, and Kanter huge minutes, especially Jack who definitely is not going to be apart of the future of this team. Let Frank, Burke, Kornet, Dotson, and the other young guns get playing time. Let them learn from their mistakes and hopefully by the end of the year you have done three things: 1) you have made your record worse to improve draft position; 2) you have given the young guys plenty of film on things they can work on in the summer; and 3) the young guys have hopefully improved with the added playing time. Tanking is a good thing for a team in our position.

People have differing opinions on what tank means. Now that Porzingis is hurt there is zero benefit to winning any games.