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Frank the Blank
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martin
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4/10/2018  11:31 AM
LivingLegend wrote:Wondering if Frank now moving more towards a longer term comparison to say Rolando Blackman (Dallas).

Blackmon 6'6" gangly armed sharp shooter who was an outstanding defender.

As Frank matures and fills out I think he moves off the ball more (like last half of this year) and he is already at 19 showing a smooth (if inconsistent) stroke and finding spots/shots in various places on the floor.

Maybe in 2 years we have 21/22 year old matured full-blown 2-guard knock-down shooter who can also dish the rock and defend.

I think they moved Frank off the ball to continue to get him minutes while they let Trey and Mudiay get a look at the PG position.

Also, if you want a guy to take more initiative on the O end of things, take the ball out of his hands so he doesn't think too much about passing and setting up other teammates, just get the ball and shoot or make move the the basket. Also, it probably didn't hurt him from a defensive standpoint to guard guys who are bigger (SG and SF) and who traditionally moved off the ball more.

IMHO there was and is zero consideration of moving him to SG as a full time position

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fishmike
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4/10/2018  11:33 AM
LivingLegend wrote:Wondering if Frank now moving more towards a longer term comparison to say Rolando Blackman (Dallas).

Blackmon 6'6" gangly armed sharp shooter who was an outstanding defender.

As Frank matures and fills out I think he moves off the ball more (like last half of this year) and he is already at 19 showing a smooth (if inconsistent) stroke and finding spots/shots in various places on the floor.

Maybe in 2 years we have 21/22 year old matured full-blown 2-guard knock-down shooter who can also dish the rock and defend.

he's more a creator though. Last night he was looking to score but he still makes great passes and sets guys up. He might be the kind of guy who lets you play a defensive liability like Burke who is also a great scorer. Much like Avery Bradley did for ISiah Thomas.
Knixkik
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4/10/2018  11:42 AM
fishmike wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:Wondering if Frank now moving more towards a longer term comparison to say Rolando Blackman (Dallas).

Blackmon 6'6" gangly armed sharp shooter who was an outstanding defender.

As Frank matures and fills out I think he moves off the ball more (like last half of this year) and he is already at 19 showing a smooth (if inconsistent) stroke and finding spots/shots in various places on the floor.

Maybe in 2 years we have 21/22 year old matured full-blown 2-guard knock-down shooter who can also dish the rock and defend.

he's more a creator though. Last night he was looking to score but he still makes great passes and sets guys up. He might be the kind of guy who lets you play a defensive liability like Burke who is also a great scorer. Much like Avery Bradley did for ISiah Thomas.

I think that's right on the money. Both Burke and Ntilikina are really combo guards, but with different complimentary styles. With Hardaway in the mix, i think it's a great 3 guard rotation, with Dotson's 3&D potential as a 4th guard. I am really encouraged by our guard rotation moving forward. Frank will ultimately play plenty at both positions for the rest of his career.

fishmike
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4/11/2018  9:18 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:all of this seem like we just went through it with shumpert. He was regarded as one of the top defensive guards in the league..

Mean while I just had to check to see if he was still in the league

Shumpert literally can't make a layup or shot and his shot seems broken. His passing and court awareness as a PG are really bad, and if you need to stick him at the SG spot, his flaws as a scorer become more pronounced.

He is a very good physical defender but I can't remember if I watched enough to see how he was as a team defender.

I never considered shump to be a PG, it was silly if the knicks thought that was going to happen(similar to frank.

I'm sure you remember shumpert running full speed down court only to stop just above the 3 point line and defer (sounds familiar).

This is why I say most players game does not change much from when they 1st enter the league.

Some of you literally sound like you wouldn't trade frank unless it was for labron...really insane

Hey, lets interrupt your always enlightening comments to hear from "labron" himself.

labron wrote:“I think he knows how to play the game. That’s the best thing, first of all. He’s a very cerebral basketball player. I think, defensively, he’s more advanced than offensively. But I think he’s getting better and better offensively as he’s gotten more opportunity and played more games.”

James continued:

“I think every game, more and more, he gets the opportunity to play. More and more, he gets comfortable with the NBA game; his offensive game is getting better. Defensively he’s been good since he probably stepped on a basketball floor…”

https://dailyknicks.com/2018/04/10/new-york-knicks-lebron-james-praises-frank-ntilikina/

Nalod
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4/11/2018  10:32 AM
I like Frank. I like drafting players and developing them.
They are like children, don't have to like everything they do everyday. Them make mistakes, have bad days, etc.
If he plays tonite he will have played 78 games. Remember when some extrapolated his summer league into "he is not durable"?
some of you can pull every stat out of what ever orifice you desire but like a trump supporter facing the facts, I won't change my mind.
I like frank. I like his on court personality, his cool, his effort.
I don't look at him in the contrast of Donovan Mitchell. Im not saying I would or would not prefer him because I know every year there is a Donovan Mitchell, a Darko, a Kwame Brown, Anthony Bennett, an Amare, a Kuzma, etc. there are players more ready than others. and others that suprise on the up and down side!
I also know that Phil Jax has forgotten more about basketball than I ever knew, or anyone else here COMBINED. I know If he did not cross the i's and dot the T's, Gaines did.
That does not assure anything. Basketball drafts are never a sure thing except in hindsight. Not for the great GM's in the history of the game, and not for us rank amateurs.
You don't show a fool a job half done!
martin
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4/11/2018  12:20 PM
Nalod wrote:I like Frank. I like drafting players and developing them.
They are like children, don't have to like everything they do everyday. Them make mistakes, have bad days, etc.
If he plays tonite he will have played 78 games. Remember when some extrapolated his summer league into "he is not durable"?
some of you can pull every stat out of what ever orifice you desire but like a trump supporter facing the facts, I won't change my mind.
I like frank. I like his on court personality, his cool, his effort.
I don't look at him in the contrast of Donovan Mitchell. Im not saying I would or would not prefer him because I know every year there is a Donovan Mitchell, a Darko, a Kwame Brown, Anthony Bennett, an Amare, a Kuzma, etc. there are players more ready than others. and others that suprise on the up and down side!
I also know that Phil Jax has forgotten more about basketball than I ever knew, or anyone else here COMBINED. I know If he did not cross the i's and dot the T's, Gaines did.
That does not assure anything. Basketball drafts are never a sure thing except in hindsight. Not for the great GM's in the history of the game, and not for us rank amateurs.

"His shot is too slow".... yet I don't remember him getting blocked or having his shot altered very much on the perimeter.
"He's not a PG"... all he wants to do is pass the ball.

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WaltLongmire
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4/11/2018  1:20 PM
I've already saved this thread for use in the future.

Revenge can be sweet, but I still need to see more from Frankie.

I've said this in a few threads...Hornacek said Frank has gained 9 pounds DURING THE YEAR. This is not normal, even if you do weight lifting during a season. Most players who play regular minutes either lose some weight or maintain it.

He is clearly starting to mature as a man, and I think in a few years you'll see him as one of those long rangy type players with surprising strength and good leverage. He will also be more confident initiating contact and finishing.

A lot of folks on UK missed the boat on this guy, but he's still an unfinished product, so we'll have to wait to see the final package before I get too excited, but the team is better when he's on the floor whether at PG or SG.

I like our young group or guards...Frank, Dotson, Mudiay, and Burke, and I still hold out hope for Baker. I would hope they play together in the off season in some fashion.

Hopefully we get help in the draft and maybe pick up someone in the off season.

I'm in a hopeful mode right now, but we will see.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
fishmike
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4/11/2018  2:41 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:I've already saved this thread for use in the future.

Revenge can be sweet, but I still need to see more from Frankie.

I've said this in a few threads...Hornacek said Frank has gained 9 pounds DURING THE YEAR. This is not normal, even if you do weight lifting during a season. Most players who play regular minutes either lose some weight or maintain it.

He is clearly starting to mature as a man, and I think in a few years you'll see him as one of those long rangy type players with surprising strength and good leverage. He will also be more confident initiating contact and finishing.

A lot of folks on UK missed the boat on this guy, but he's still an unfinished product, so we'll have to wait to see the final package before I get too excited, but the team is better when he's on the floor whether at PG or SG.

I like our young group or guards...Frank, Dotson, Mudiay, and Burke, and I still hold out hope for Baker. I would hope they play together in the off season in some fashion.

Hopefully we get help in the draft and maybe pick up someone in the off season.

I'm in a hopeful mode right now, but we will see.


right on... When you see that game vs. the Cavs and the amounts of easy looks he was getting because everyone assumes he's going to pass it was eye opening. He already gets praise around the league for his defense. Now you hear him saying "the games is slowing down" you hear his coach's praise, you see his teammates like him and he continues to play unselfish ball.

Walt I am really high on Frank. I liked him when Evil sent me a link of his Strausberg elimination game and after being drafting and taking a red-eye back the kid layed it all out there.

Frank is also why I want Bridges. I think you build a team around two elite defenders on the perimeter and an elite rim protected. If Frank/Bridges hit their defensive upside we can really shut down opposing offenses and take them out of their games. Its a LONG ways away but I envision our best way of competing vs. the Boston, Phili types that are up and coming is to build a great defensive group, then in 2 years when Lance/Noah/Lee/etc come off the books we can add a couple guys like maybe Kyrie to that mix. Anyway the plan to lock down other teams remains.

I think Frank has the ability to be a culture changing player for us. Time will tell... fingers crossed. Have a good summer kid!

BigDaddyG
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4/11/2018  2:53 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:I've said this in a few threads...Hornacek said Frank has gained 9 pounds DURING THE YEAR. This is not normal, even if you do weight lifting during a season. Most players who play regular minutes either lose some weight or maintain it.

Don't think it's too abnormal for na be hyoung guy with Frank's build who gets access to pro training. In terms of Mudiay's conditioning. Mudiay looks like the type who puts on weight quickly. You consider the fact he wasn't getting minutes and it's to see how easy for him it was to lose his wind. I look forward to seeing both guys next season after a detailed off-season regimine. It be nice if Allan Houston helped Mudiay with his shot as well. Guy had one of the best shooting forms in the history of the game.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
ccinflushing
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4/11/2018  2:56 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/11/2018  3:00 PM
I'd be interested in pairing Tomas Satoransky with Frank - either as a free agent in 2019 (he's restricted but I'm not sure Washington will be able to march) or via trade. Playmaking from two tall guards, with potentially good to excellent 3 point shooting and defensive switchability.
Nalod
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4/11/2018  3:33 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:I've already saved this thread for use in the future.

Revenge can be sweet, but I still need to see more from Frankie.

I've said this in a few threads...Hornacek said Frank has gained 9 pounds DURING THE YEAR. This is not normal, even if you do weight lifting during a season. Most players who play regular minutes either lose some weight or maintain it.

He is clearly starting to mature as a man, and I think in a few years you'll see him as one of those long rangy type players with surprising strength and good leverage. He will also be more confident initiating contact and finishing.

A lot of folks on UK missed the boat on this guy, but he's still an unfinished product, so we'll have to wait to see the final package before I get too excited, but the team is better when he's on the floor whether at PG or SG.

I like our young group or guards...Frank, Dotson, Mudiay, and Burke, and I still hold out hope for Baker. I would hope they play together in the off season in some fashion.

Hopefully we get help in the draft and maybe pick up someone in the off season.

I'm in a hopeful mode right now, but we will see.

Don't get excited? Why not? We as fans so bad we have to protect our precious emotions because we might be wrong? Disappointed? Hoodwinked and bamboozled!!!!
Im not stupid, I know when empty calories like Amare and Melo are pushed in front of me its just that and I'll enjoy what they give and have a good time with what ever.
But KP and Frank we have no starphuch past to set the bar with. ANything is possible with these two. Torn ACL and French disappointments are possible, but so is some serious upside. I've been disappointed before. But nobody can't tell me we not sitting on the next Arvytas Sabonis (Before and after)
or our own mini Greek Freak Pippen.....

Let the kids grow........
Maybe its great, maybe a disappointment.

You don't show a fool a job half done!
reub
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4/11/2018  3:40 PM
In our last game against the Cavs we lost by 14 points and yet Frank was a plus 3 in 40 minutes of play. That means that the team was a minus 17 in the 8 minutes that Frank was off the floor. He is already an impact player and is still younger than Ayton.
WaltLongmire
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4/11/2018  4:26 PM
Nalod wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:I've already saved this thread for use in the future.

Revenge can be sweet, but I still need to see more from Frankie.

I've said this in a few threads...Hornacek said Frank has gained 9 pounds DURING THE YEAR. This is not normal, even if you do weight lifting during a season. Most players who play regular minutes either lose some weight or maintain it.

He is clearly starting to mature as a man, and I think in a few years you'll see him as one of those long rangy type players with surprising strength and good leverage. He will also be more confident initiating contact and finishing.

A lot of folks on UK missed the boat on this guy, but he's still an unfinished product, so we'll have to wait to see the final package before I get too excited, but the team is better when he's on the floor whether at PG or SG.

I like our young group or guards...Frank, Dotson, Mudiay, and Burke, and I still hold out hope for Baker. I would hope they play together in the off season in some fashion.

Hopefully we get help in the draft and maybe pick up someone in the off season.

I'm in a hopeful mode right now, but we will see.

Don't get excited? Why not? We as fans so bad we have to protect our precious emotions because we might be wrong? Disappointed? Hoodwinked and bamboozled!!!!
Im not stupid, I know when empty calories like Amare and Melo are pushed in front of me its just that and I'll enjoy what they give and have a good time with what ever.
But KP and Frank we have no starphuch past to set the bar with. ANything is possible with these two. Torn ACL and French disappointments are possible, but so is some serious upside. I've been disappointed before. But nobody can't tell me we not sitting on the next Arvytas Sabonis (Before and after)
or our own mini Greek Freak Pippen.....

Let the kids grow........
Maybe its great, maybe a disappointment.


I try to remain low key when I can because of past disappointment. I'm doing this with the Mets right now, too.

Both of our Euro lotto picks were underdeveloped and very young, and both came from team-first...not "I Am The One" systems of ball. American fans still seem to have a fixation of hero ball in its many forms.

Folks just have to be patient.

I posted a January 2017 NYT article on Frank a number of times, and a friend of Lebron who played on the team talked about Frank having to be more aggressive, especially in terms of taking it to the basket. He seems to be looking to take it to the basket more often, though you still want to see him doing it knowing that there will be contact. Still, he seems to have changed his game a bit, which is something to look forward to.

It is ALL about confidence with Frank. I think this is why the Knicks would like to see him play ball in the U.S. in the off-season, so he can develop his confidence playing the more aggressive American game, and maybe even looking to be more selfish as a scorer.

The KP injury could be a blessing in disguise because it will give a number of players more opportunity show off...you have to hope that Frank is one of those guys.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
martin
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4/11/2018  4:27 PM
reub wrote:In our last game against the Cavs we lost by 14 points and yet Frank was a plus 3 in 40 minutes of play. That means that the team was a minus 17 in the 8 minutes that Frank was off the floor. He is already an impact player and is still younger than Ayton.

nice catch

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WaltLongmire
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4/11/2018  4:32 PM
ccinflushing wrote:I'd be interested in pairing Tomas Satoransky with Frank - either as a free agent in 2019 (he's restricted but I'm not sure Washington will be able to march) or via trade. Playmaking from two tall guards, with potentially good to excellent 3 point shooting and defensive switchability.

I'm old enough to remember when there were no official PG or SG positions. Having two larger guards who can do both things would be nice.

Still hoping that Mudiay can turn things around. He is big enough to be a SG and guard at that position, and it might even be better for him because of a lack of defensive quickness.

We will see.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
WaltLongmire
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4/11/2018  4:41 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:I've said this in a few threads...Hornacek said Frank has gained 9 pounds DURING THE YEAR. This is not normal, even if you do weight lifting during a season. Most players who play regular minutes either lose some weight or maintain it.

Don't think it's too abnormal for na be hyoung guy with Frank's build who gets access to pro training. In terms of Mudiay's conditioning. Mudiay looks like the type who puts on weight quickly. You consider the fact he wasn't getting minutes and it's to see how easy for him it was to lose his wind. I look forward to seeing both guys next season after a detailed off-season regimine. It be nice if Allan Houston helped Mudiay with his shot as well. Guy had one of the best shooting forms in the history of the game.

Hell, I'd like Houston to work with Frank, too. Hornacek, if he is kept, is another guy who was a great shooter and understands how to teach...Frank and Mudiay should do some serious work on polishing their mechanics.

I'm just looking at the calorie intake vs what you expend during a season. I know that KP lost weight his rookie year after putting on weight for the season. It's hard to put on the pounds if you are playing a position where you have to move around a lot, even if you are doing weight training.

I always look at Frank's face...I'm not sure that we've ever had a kid who looks as immature physically as he does. I wonder if the guy even shaves...I expect him to be about 10-15 lbs heavier next season- hopefully muscle because of his training plan.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
Marv
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4/11/2018  4:41 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:I've already saved this thread for use in the future.

Revenge can be sweet, but I still need to see more from Frankie.

I've said this in a few threads...Hornacek said Frank has gained 9 pounds DURING THE YEAR. This is not normal, even if you do weight lifting during a season. Most players who play regular minutes either lose some weight or maintain it.

He is clearly starting to mature as a man, and I think in a few years you'll see him as one of those long rangy type players with surprising strength and good leverage. He will also be more confident initiating contact and finishing.

A lot of folks on UK missed the boat on this guy, but he's still an unfinished product, so we'll have to wait to see the final package before I get too excited, but the team is better when he's on the floor whether at PG or SG.

I like our young group or guards...Frank, Dotson, Mudiay, and Burke, and I still hold out hope for Baker. I would hope they play together in the off season in some fashion.

Hopefully we get help in the draft and maybe pick up someone in the off season.

I'm in a hopeful mode right now, but we will see.

i'm not so high on mudiay or baker, but am very happy going into next season with frank, thj, burke and dotson. i don't want to draft a guard. let's grab the most dynamic frontcourt player on the board.

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Nalod
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4/11/2018  4:41 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
Nalod wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:I've already saved this thread for use in the future.

Revenge can be sweet, but I still need to see more from Frankie.

I've said this in a few threads...Hornacek said Frank has gained 9 pounds DURING THE YEAR. This is not normal, even if you do weight lifting during a season. Most players who play regular minutes either lose some weight or maintain it.

He is clearly starting to mature as a man, and I think in a few years you'll see him as one of those long rangy type players with surprising strength and good leverage. He will also be more confident initiating contact and finishing.

A lot of folks on UK missed the boat on this guy, but he's still an unfinished product, so we'll have to wait to see the final package before I get too excited, but the team is better when he's on the floor whether at PG or SG.

I like our young group or guards...Frank, Dotson, Mudiay, and Burke, and I still hold out hope for Baker. I would hope they play together in the off season in some fashion.

Hopefully we get help in the draft and maybe pick up someone in the off season.

I'm in a hopeful mode right now, but we will see.

Don't get excited? Why not? We as fans so bad we have to protect our precious emotions because we might be wrong? Disappointed? Hoodwinked and bamboozled!!!!
Im not stupid, I know when empty calories like Amare and Melo are pushed in front of me its just that and I'll enjoy what they give and have a good time with what ever.
But KP and Frank we have no starphuch past to set the bar with. ANything is possible with these two. Torn ACL and French disappointments are possible, but so is some serious upside. I've been disappointed before. But nobody can't tell me we not sitting on the next Arvytas Sabonis (Before and after)
or our own mini Greek Freak Pippen.....

Let the kids grow........
Maybe its great, maybe a disappointment.


I try to remain low key when I can because of past disappointment. I'm doing this with the Mets right now, too.

Both of our Euro lotto picks were underdeveloped and very young, and both came from team-first...not "I Am The One" systems of ball. American fans still seem to have a fixation of hero ball in its many forms.

Folks just have to be patient.

I posted a January 2017 NYT article on Frank a number of times, and a friend of Lebron who played on the team talked about Frank having to be more aggressive, especially in terms of taking it to the basket. He seems to be looking to take it to the basket more often, though you still want to see him doing it knowing that there will be contact. Still, he seems to have changed his game a bit, which is something to look forward to.

It is ALL about confidence with Frank. I think this is why the Knicks would like to see him play ball in the U.S. in the off-season, so he can develop his confidence playing the more aggressive American game, and maybe even looking to be more selfish as a scorer.

The KP injury could be a blessing in disguise because it will give a number of players more opportunity show off...you have to hope that Frank is one of those guys.

Good that Frank has finished strong and his knowledge base includes many experiences.

I think we have this image of frank:


Last year....

2 days ago.....

You don't show a fool a job half done!
Nalod
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4/11/2018  4:46 PM
Marv wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:I've already saved this thread for use in the future.

Revenge can be sweet, but I still need to see more from Frankie.

I've said this in a few threads...Hornacek said Frank has gained 9 pounds DURING THE YEAR. This is not normal, even if you do weight lifting during a season. Most players who play regular minutes either lose some weight or maintain it.

He is clearly starting to mature as a man, and I think in a few years you'll see him as one of those long rangy type players with surprising strength and good leverage. He will also be more confident initiating contact and finishing.

A lot of folks on UK missed the boat on this guy, but he's still an unfinished product, so we'll have to wait to see the final package before I get too excited, but the team is better when he's on the floor whether at PG or SG.

I like our young group or guards...Frank, Dotson, Mudiay, and Burke, and I still hold out hope for Baker. I would hope they play together in the off season in some fashion.

Hopefully we get help in the draft and maybe pick up someone in the off season.

I'm in a hopeful mode right now, but we will see.

i'm not so high on mudiay or baker, but am very happy going into next season with frank, thj, burke and dotson. i don't want to draft a guard. let's grab the most dynamic frontcourt player on the board.

I agree.

You don't show a fool a job half done!
Knixkik
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4/11/2018  10:58 PM
Another good outing for Frank. This type of aggressiveness on offense makes all the difference. Just shows how people here need patience.
Frank the Blank

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