BigDaddyG wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Sorry to sound like a broken record. I really hope Frank skips Intl. Play and educates himself in playground basketball right here. Rucker, Drew, whatever gets Frank to put equal emphasis on offense.

Willy misjudged mgmt, and ended up in worse situation. Dont want to see the same thing to happen to Frank.

Frank is already in a bad situation.... Knicks have Mudiay, Burke and Jack ahead of him. Baker sucks too but he's actually the one bringing the pain on defense. If we settle into the idea that Frank isn't a point guard, Dotson is right there. Dotson is gonna be a good player no doubt. All of this is a good thing. Frank doesn't deserve to play if he isn't out playing most of the guys mentioned. That's just the way it should be.

Despite his recent troubles, he's still a better defender than those guys. Doesn't that deserve minutes?

You have to score to win.... Frank isn't contributing on offense. His defense is not so good to cover all the stuff he's struggling with offensively... right now Frank is still a point guard. The whole point of a point guard or lead guard is to initiate offense... he can't do that lol. It's crazy that this is something debated. A point guard that doesn't do anything point guards are supposed to do....oh but he plays defense. I mean what is going on here

blkexec wrote:The one thing I like about Frank, is he listens....And responds well. His only problem is consistency!

And when you play for the knicks, you hear everything from everybody. Some players can't handle that negative feedback. But I have a feeling he has that hidden fire or chip to show the haters he's as good or better than expected. Will be a good eye test to see him against his peers tonight.

The only question mark with Frank is how long will it take him to round out his skill set on both ends? Depends on his NBA company in the off season. NY is probably the best place for guard type pickup games and I'm sure he knows the guard culture by now. So if he's smart like I think he is, he will start showing more offensive skills....especially with Mudiay on board and Burke off the bench.

That's all I'm saying. Hornacek isn't in control of Frank. If Frank wants too be good he's got to figure that out. When Hornacek is fired who's to blame next year if Frank stl doesn't get better like we thought Baker would. Baker is still terrible offensively. Frank's own responsibility is to get better. Not the Knicks. They can develop him, but Frank has to put in his own work.

EnySpree wrote:I wasn't to add most importantly, I am a Knicks fan not I want to develop Frank fan. I want the cream to rise. Mudiay is here.... I want him to build on the 12pts and 5 assists he's already put up in this league. He's already ahead of the game. If Mudiay can get better and take the point guard spot them that would be fantastic. I don't want Frank to be force fed if Mudiay is putting up numbers and playing well. It's all about the Knicks. Same thing thigh if Frank comes bank next year busting ass and if Mudiay doesn't improve, then I want Frank out there. The goal should be both to improve to the point they both can start... but that's on them

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Sorry to sound like a broken record. I really hope Frank skips Intl. Play and educates himself in playground basketball right here. Rucker, Drew, whatever gets Frank to put equal emphasis on offense.

Willy misjudged mgmt, and ended up in worse situation. Dont want to see the same thing to happen to Frank.

Frank is already in a bad situation.... Knicks have Mudiay, Burke and Jack ahead of him. Baker sucks too but he's actually the one bringing the pain on defense. If we settle into the idea that Frank isn't a point guard, Dotson is right there. Dotson is gonna be a good player no doubt. All of this is a good thing. Frank doesn't deserve to play if he isn't out playing most of the guys mentioned. That's just the way it should be.

Despite his recent troubles, he's still a better defender than those guys. Doesn't that deserve minutes?

You have to score to win.... Frank isn't contributing on offense. His defense is not so good to cover all the stuff he's struggling with offensively... right now Frank is still a point guard. The whole point of a point guard or lead guard is to initiate offense... he can't do that lol. It's crazy that this is something debated. A point guard that doesn't do anything point guards are supposed to do....oh but he plays defense. I mean what is going on here

You’re exaggerating Frank’s flaws. They knew he was raw offensively and needing time to develop. What you’re not yet grasping is that Frank’s base is that of a PG that has helped his team to perform 4.4 points better on defense and has been a +1 in On/Off Court despite his low scoring. Guys like Fox -5.7, DSJ -13.4 and Monk -18.1 are WAY under water even tho they score more than Frank. So it’s not going to require a lot of offensive output for Frank to have a bigger impact. Mudiay is a more skilled scorer but he’s also WAY under water. Mudiay was a -13.3 in Denver and -7.5 so far in NY. Frank is in a position to be more positively impactful as his offense improves!!!

Frank's VORP is already at -0.6. That's despite his offense.

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Sorry to sound like a broken record. I really hope Frank skips Intl. Play and educates himself in playground basketball right here. Rucker, Drew, whatever gets Frank to put equal emphasis on offense.

Willy misjudged mgmt, and ended up in worse situation. Dont want to see the same thing to happen to Frank.

Frank is already in a bad situation.... Knicks have Mudiay, Burke and Jack ahead of him. Baker sucks too but he's actually the one bringing the pain on defense. If we settle into the idea that Frank isn't a point guard, Dotson is right there. Dotson is gonna be a good player no doubt. All of this is a good thing. Frank doesn't deserve to play if he isn't out playing most of the guys mentioned. That's just the way it should be.

Despite his recent troubles, he's still a better defender than those guys. Doesn't that deserve minutes?

You have to score to win.... Frank isn't contributing on offense. His defense is not so good to cover all the stuff he's struggling with offensively... right now Frank is still a point guard. The whole point of a point guard or lead guard is to initiate offense... he can't do that lol. It's crazy that this is something debated. A point guard that doesn't do anything point guards are supposed to do....oh but he plays defense. I mean what is going on here

You’re exaggerating Frank’s flaws. They knew he was raw offensively and needing time to develop. What you’re not yet grasping is that Frank’s base is that of a PG that has helped his team to perform 4.4 points better on defense and has been a +1 in On/Off Court despite his low scoring. Guys like Fox -5.7, DSJ -13.4 and Monk -18.1 are WAY under water even tho they score more than Frank. So it’s not going to require a lot of offensive output for Frank to have a bigger impact. Mudiay is a more skilled scorer but he’s also WAY under water. Mudiay was a -13.3 in Denver and -7.5 so far in NY. Frank is in a position to be more positively impactful as his offense improves!!!

Thank you for pointing these out. Enyspree loves stats because he points to them constantly when discussing impact. He doesn't realize that points and assists aren't everything. Impact on the floor runs much deeper than that. Frank has shown impact without flashy stats of some other guys.

Panos wrote:Frank N. is Michael Sweetney, 2017 edition. He'll be out of the league once his rookie contract is up.

You know NOTHING! Tony Allen made a career Off Defense and he’s not even close to the passer Frank is. Guys like Frank tend to stick in the NBA! Fans are assuming Frank isn’t going to improve his offense but chances are he will.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Panos wrote:Frank N. is Michael Sweetney, 2017 edition. He'll be out of the league once his rookie contract is up.

You know NOTHING! Tony Allen made a career Off Defense and he’s not even close to the passer Frank is. Guys like Frank tend to stick in the NBA! Fans are assuming Frank isn’t going to improve his offense but chances are he will.

Frank can hit the three at an acceptable rate. He doesn't take the ball to the rim and put pressure on the defense. His passing most of the time indicates he doesn't want the ball/hot Potato jam passing/ is a big part of his profile. Unlike other point guards, he doesn't want the ball in his hands after he crosses mud court. If you want to describe him as a less aggressive, less effective defender then Tony Allen , I could see that. I can't come up with a player like Frank at the point. Maybe Reggie Miller when he was forced to play the point without Reggie's ability on offense.

How many times do I have to remind you that the Knicks knew Frank was raw Offensively and that he’d need time to develop his skills. They were willing to wait for his offense to develop. No one expected him to get it all done in his rookie year!

From where Frank is starting he’s got a solid base to build on. It’s not sexy but his game will be clearly defined. When he’s on the floor the defense improves measurably and when his offense improves your going to be talking about a plus player.

nixluva wrote:

Panos wrote:Frank N. is Michael Sweetney, 2017 edition. He'll be out of the league once his rookie contract is up.

You know NOTHING! Tony Allen made a career Off Defense and hes not even close to the passer Frank is. Guys like Frank tend to stick in the NBA! Fans are assuming Frank isnt going to improve his offense but chances are he will.

Don't get your panties in a snit. It's my prediction. Just as you're looking into that cracked crystal ball of yours making a prediction, that he'll develop an offensive game, based on nothing, zero facts or foundation. You make overly optimistic predictions about the Knicks' rookies every single year, and say how this time it's different, and *I'm* the one who knows nothing? So you're whole point is that the Knicks "knew he was raw offensively". Yeah, so? What does that prove? That says he'll magically be able to become a developed and effective offensive NBA player in 3 years? Based on what? Back the F up with your "You know NOTHING!"
If I'm wrong I'll be happy to eat crow. But my prediction is more likely to be right than yours. Like every other year.

EnySpree wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Panos wrote:Frank N. is Michael Sweetney, 2017 edition. He'll be out of the league once his rookie contract is up.

You know NOTHING! Tony Allen made a career Off Defense and he’s not even close to the passer Frank is. Guys like Frank tend to stick in the NBA! Fans are assuming Frank isn’t going to improve his offense but chances are he will.

I think he will too but he's missing a certain aggressiveness. He's too passive. He's not on a Tony Allen level. He doesn't have that motor. It's not fair to say he's a bust yet, but it's also not fair to give him a pass cuz he's young. He signed up for this.

I think the big games(I use that term loosely) that he had against several pg in his class and tony Parker refutes the premise that Frank is passive. I think he approaches the game realistically, he is just not comfortable yet. But I also think he is prideful and he went at Ball...DSJ....TP...Kyrie...etc. But this was earlier in the season....I think he has hit the wall....but I expect him to get better....when you read his backstory and the type family he comes from....just like Phil said about Porzingis he has that kind of mindset to get better...

What we are looking at is a raw teenager offensively that played system ball....he is not a break you off the dribble player..although he played like that some in France...he is not equipped to do that here yet...

I would be concerned if we see the exact same player this time next year