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Tim "clank" hardaway
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nykshaknbake
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2/15/2018  7:31 AM
Knixkik wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:he's having a brutal 3rd

It's one thing to declare this a bad contract based on a bad stretch of a handful of games, but are we really going to start breaking him down by quarter too?

he's had one good half over the past eight games. am I the one evaluating off a small sample size or are you?

I will judge him on the season.


40 % fg and 30 % 3pt. Mediocre D, nothing special on rebounds and assists.
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GustavBahler
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2/15/2018  10:37 AM
Timmy ran out of gas physically and mentally in the 4th. Put a lot of pressure on himself to snap out of his slump, and did it in a big way.

Somebody else should have stepped up in the second half. All stars play like Timmy did for 4 quarters. Just glad he's finding the rim again.

Knixkik
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2/15/2018  10:43 AM
GustavBahler wrote:Timmy ran out of gas physically and mentally in the 4th. Put a lot of pressure on himself to snap out of his slump, and did it in a big way.

Somebody else should have stepped up in the second half. All stars play like Timmy did for 4 quarters. Just glad he's finding the rim again.

Yeah this is a simple example of where KP was needed. This is obviously a game where Hardaway took over early, and typically we would expect KP to pick up the pace in the 2nd half. That is the difference between a win and a loss. Kanter and Beasley will get their points, but no one truly steps up.

martin
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2/15/2018  11:03 AM
GustavBahler wrote:Timmy ran out of gas physically and mentally in the 4th. Put a lot of pressure on himself to snap out of his slump, and did it in a big way.

Somebody else should have stepped up in the second half. All stars play like Timmy did for 4 quarters. Just glad he's finding the rim again.

...and over multiple games.

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martin
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2/15/2018  11:05 AM
Knixkik wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Timmy ran out of gas physically and mentally in the 4th. Put a lot of pressure on himself to snap out of his slump, and did it in a big way.

Somebody else should have stepped up in the second half. All stars play like Timmy did for 4 quarters. Just glad he's finding the rim again.

Yeah this is a simple example of where KP was needed. This is obviously a game where Hardaway took over early, and typically we would expect KP to pick up the pace in the 2nd half. That is the difference between a win and a loss. Kanter and Beasley will get their points, but no one truly steps up.

And this, for me, is one the reasons I could never sign Kanter to much more than a ~$12M contract over multiple years. I still can't recall a game where he just took over and we can point to him as the reason the Knicks won the game. Start to finish.

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Nalod
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2/15/2018  11:09 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/15/2018  11:36 AM
A tale of Two Timmy's......

First half was amazing display of talent. Glass half full. When a guy does that in the NBA it demonstrates talent. At 25 there is your upside.
Then there is the consistency.
Nalod Theory: Timmy goes full out most of the time. Problem is not sure he knows how to regulate his output. We often read "He got better when the game came to him". I remember watching Vince Carter in his prime. Amazing player, talent better than Jordan!!!! Relax, wait......But, he could not sustain that level of play(Bill Russell, Jordan, Lebron are freaks of nature!) He could turn it on, make a run, then kind of fall back and "let the game come to him". True of many players but Vince I saw a few times in person and watching him off the ball one could see how he would regulate his output. At his advanced age, he has sustained quite a career doing this. That and genetics!! Vince still had to play reasonable defense, pass, and if open take the shot. 2nd tier great players like him, Melo, Drexler, Human Highlight Wilkens, etc are HOF greats but did not have that extra gear that got them on Mount rushmore. Im not saying Tim does has that kind of talent, but he, like JR smith does possess good NBA talent and if he can figure it out it might provide him the guide to a good career or better. I think Timmy is more dedicated to his craft than JR at the same age.
My point is we are seeing inconsistency in his game. He has his fathers legacy to fill, big expectations on his own and signed a big contract on the big stage. He should have anxiety and be a bit impatient.

Lots of us have super great ideas about players and how they can improve. Just because I say it, or even more likely he knows this (Not from me!!), does not mean it happens over night. He is still finding his way in his advanced roll. Like KP was this season as well. Add Frank and Mundiay we have a nice core of young guys developing. Whats the time line? I don't know. Its frustrating but Nalod is patient. When we are wrong about players, its time to move on. WE did that with Willy, and Denver did it with Mundiay.
The more opportunities we have, the increase chance of success. The higher the ceiling sometimes requires taking chances.
I remember when we drafted Channing Frye. Guy was solid and his upside was limited. He is still going. Reezy was the other way, he came out a bit early, was raw but he had great instincts for the ball. Never a star but solid. Trade him for freaking washed up Francis.

Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
Knixkik
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2/15/2018  11:15 AM
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Timmy ran out of gas physically and mentally in the 4th. Put a lot of pressure on himself to snap out of his slump, and did it in a big way.

Somebody else should have stepped up in the second half. All stars play like Timmy did for 4 quarters. Just glad he's finding the rim again.

Yeah this is a simple example of where KP was needed. This is obviously a game where Hardaway took over early, and typically we would expect KP to pick up the pace in the 2nd half. That is the difference between a win and a loss. Kanter and Beasley will get their points, but no one truly steps up.

And this, for me, is one the reasons I could never sign Kanter to much more than a ~$12M contract over multiple years. I still can't recall a game where he just took over and we can point to him as the reason the Knicks won the game. Start to finish.

Yeah i am still going to stay unsettled on him. I want to see him for another year. I assume he opts in. I like him because of his toughness, and he gets us so many extra possessions. But looking at the draft, someone like Wendell Carter, who seems like a complete player to fit alongside Porzingis long-term, would make me move on quickly from Kanter, or offer him a 6th man role at a lower price point. We will just have see what happens. The draft will dictate a lot of this.

martin
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2/15/2018  11:19 AM
Knixkik wrote:
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Timmy ran out of gas physically and mentally in the 4th. Put a lot of pressure on himself to snap out of his slump, and did it in a big way.

Somebody else should have stepped up in the second half. All stars play like Timmy did for 4 quarters. Just glad he's finding the rim again.

Yeah this is a simple example of where KP was needed. This is obviously a game where Hardaway took over early, and typically we would expect KP to pick up the pace in the 2nd half. That is the difference between a win and a loss. Kanter and Beasley will get their points, but no one truly steps up.

And this, for me, is one the reasons I could never sign Kanter to much more than a ~$12M contract over multiple years. I still can't recall a game where he just took over and we can point to him as the reason the Knicks won the game. Start to finish.

Yeah i am still going to stay unsettled on him. I want to see him for another year. I assume he opts in. I like him because of his toughness, and he gets us so many extra possessions. But looking at the draft, someone like Wendell Carter, who seems like a complete player to fit alongside Porzingis long-term, would make me move on quickly from Kanter, or offer him a 6th man role at a lower price point. We will just have see what happens. The draft will dictate a lot of this.

100% agreed

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Nalod
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2/15/2018  11:41 AM
Tim feasted and Beasted early! He felt it.
Hard for a young player coming out of a slump to hold back and save himself. Timmy won the 1st half battle but lost the war (game).
Beas was stone cold when we needed someone to step up. He warmed up but the lead was gone.
Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
Chandler
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2/15/2018  11:57 AM
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Timmy ran out of gas physically and mentally in the 4th. Put a lot of pressure on himself to snap out of his slump, and did it in a big way.

Somebody else should have stepped up in the second half. All stars play like Timmy did for 4 quarters. Just glad he's finding the rim again.

Yeah this is a simple example of where KP was needed. This is obviously a game where Hardaway took over early, and typically we would expect KP to pick up the pace in the 2nd half. That is the difference between a win and a loss. Kanter and Beasley will get their points, but no one truly steps up.

And this, for me, is one the reasons I could never sign Kanter to much more than a ~$12M contract over multiple years. I still can't recall a game where he just took over and we can point to him as the reason the Knicks won the game. Start to finish.

Yeah i am still going to stay unsettled on him. I want to see him for another year. I assume he opts in. I like him because of his toughness, and he gets us so many extra possessions. But looking at the draft, someone like Wendell Carter, who seems like a complete player to fit alongside Porzingis long-term, would make me move on quickly from Kanter, or offer him a 6th man role at a lower price point. We will just have see what happens. The draft will dictate a lot of this.

100% agreed

I too agree with all of this. Kanter is a huge enigma. there are times where it seems he's dominant-- gets every offensive rebound , and other times where he is an extreme liability on D. It's perhaps beyond realistic to think that a coach could scheme a system to better play to his strengths and mask his weaknesses

I know the other day Brian Scalabrine (sp?) was commenting that the Knicks don't do enough inside out with him -- kicking it in just to draw a double team and kick it out again (part of that is on Kanter too of course as he rarely kicks back out)

Would like to see him paired with some bouncy-defender in the front court too. How is it a guy like Marc Gasol can be a capable defender, and Enes is a non-factor?

DJMUSIC: Fisher talked a good game in Post game but aside from that Derek Fisher was ALL CHIT CHAT SH_t and produced nothing!
martin
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2/15/2018  12:00 PM
Chandler wrote:
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Timmy ran out of gas physically and mentally in the 4th. Put a lot of pressure on himself to snap out of his slump, and did it in a big way.

Somebody else should have stepped up in the second half. All stars play like Timmy did for 4 quarters. Just glad he's finding the rim again.

Yeah this is a simple example of where KP was needed. This is obviously a game where Hardaway took over early, and typically we would expect KP to pick up the pace in the 2nd half. That is the difference between a win and a loss. Kanter and Beasley will get their points, but no one truly steps up.

And this, for me, is one the reasons I could never sign Kanter to much more than a ~$12M contract over multiple years. I still can't recall a game where he just took over and we can point to him as the reason the Knicks won the game. Start to finish.

Yeah i am still going to stay unsettled on him. I want to see him for another year. I assume he opts in. I like him because of his toughness, and he gets us so many extra possessions. But looking at the draft, someone like Wendell Carter, who seems like a complete player to fit alongside Porzingis long-term, would make me move on quickly from Kanter, or offer him a 6th man role at a lower price point. We will just have see what happens. The draft will dictate a lot of this.

100% agreed

I too agree with all of this. Kanter is a huge enigma. there are times where it seems he's dominant-- gets every offensive rebound , and other times where he is an extreme liability on D. It's perhaps beyond realistic to think that a coach could scheme a system to better play to his strengths and mask his weaknesses

I know the other day Brian Scalabrine (sp?) was commenting that the Knicks don't do enough inside out with him -- kicking it in just to draw a double team and kick it out again (part of that is on Kanter too of course as he rarely kicks back out)

Would like to see him paired with some bouncy-defender in the front court too. How is it a guy like Marc Gasol can be a capable defender, and Enes is a non-factor?

My guess: this is the pure definition of BBIQ

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Tim "clank" hardaway

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