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Possible roster for 2018/19
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Finestrg
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2/12/2018  4:08 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/12/2018  5:43 PM
Just thinking out loud:

5 - Kanter (resigned hopefully at a rate. Good player that wants to be here. I'd then go out of my way to turn him into a 20/10 all-star level player next year, which shouldn't be too difficult. Should get more touches with KP down).
4 - Jordan Mickey (either a FA or a Miami Heat player option for about $1.6mm next yr depending on who's correct, Hoopshype or Spotrac. I'd look to grab this dude at all costs and play him 30+ mins next year).
3 - THJ
2 - Lee
1 - Mudiay
---------------------------
5 - Kornet
4 - Wendell Carter Jr. (1st round pick -- power/skill complement to Kanter/Kornet/KP and replacement for O'Quinn who I think opts out. Already very skilled and developed for a big and he should only get even better).
4/3 - Brandon Ashley (value FA signing)
2/1 - Antonio Blakeney (MUST SIGN FA next year for me. ELITE offensive skills/legit 6th man of the year potential).
2/1 - Ntilikina
1 - Burke
---------------------------
2 - Damyean Dotson
2/1 - Baker (100% opts in. Poor decision to give him the contract we did but what's done is done).
3 - Lance Thomas (I'd buy him out--it's a lot of money but there are much better options out there. The open roster spot is more valuable to us. Ridiculous signing, really. The reality is he's not even worth half what we gave him).
1 - Jalen Brunson (2nd round pick, if he's even there which I have trouble picturing)
3 - Keita Bates-Diop (2nd round pick) *we could possibly move this pick
---------------------------
Noah - AUTOMATIC buyout
Christian Wood - alternative value FA signing

That's at least one too many players (provided we can use KP's roster spot) BUT I think there's things we could do to free up some space. It's a lot to ask of Dolan, I get it, but I'd buy out Noah and LT. We have ZERO use for either player (Noah's already being asked to stay away from the team--that's a relationship that's beyond repair + he sucks now anyway and G-Leaguer Brandon Ashley's already a better player than LT and I don't even think that's close).. We could look to make a trade for Mickey if MIA retains control of him, using an assortment of assets including maybe Frank N if I could get a future 1st & 2nd rounder along with Mickey--I think that's fair. Mudiay's already a better player and kind of makes Frank redundant now anyway (plus I want to see them keep Burke and get him legit PT). I don't see Frank becoming anywhere near all-star level which is why I wouldn't be opposed to moving him in the right deal (I know he's young but I already have a guarded view on his ceiling--doesn't feel like a player we'd ever regret trading). We could also dangle Dotson and the lesser of our 2 2nd rounders in a trade or *we could simply trade the lesser of our 2nd rounders for cash/a future pick... OR maybe Brunson comes in and plays well right away, making Burke obsolete -- then we could keep Frank AND the lesser 2nd rounder. There are some possibilities here..

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BRIGGS
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2/12/2018  4:28 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/12/2018  4:33 PM
Wendell Carter reminds me of Alonzo Mourning with a point shot. Hed be a great 4-1 player. You like that hes 260 pounds but also fast with long arms. If he was on another team hed be top 5.
Finestrg
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2/12/2018  4:37 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/12/2018  5:07 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Wendell Carter reminds me of Alonzo Mourning with a point shot.

Very good touch all the way out to 3 which he should be encouraged to continue developing w/o going overboard (his bread & butter should always remain being an interior presence/anchor). Excellent touch at the line too (I see him as a perennial over 80% FT shooter at the NBA level). Also very good in the post with either hand + he gives you legit rebounding and rim protection. All this at 18 years old!! So much room for even more growth, both skill-wise and in actual height -- already an ATHLETIC 6'10" 255--could he possibly grow another inch or two? Used to think he was too much of a "safe pick" for us but he's more than that.. There's an awful lot to like here.

I'd love to have both + KP when he returns but WC, if we got him, kinda makes you rethink resigning Kanter in a way, esp. if the money for Kanter doesn't make sense when the time comes. And you know what -- he's good insurance for us in case KP doesn't come back the same player. I think we tank it out from here to put us in position to have a shot at him.

Nalod
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2/12/2018  5:05 PM
Our free agent push is with our without Kanters on the books?
center market won't be full this year and his salary at this level in my opinion is not that high. About fair.
He could OPT in and that gives us more or less flex for 2019?
If Noah takes a year off, can he still play off the bench for two years? We still have to pay him? we can always buy him out.
Let KOQ walk, sign someone for less.
Just thinking out loud, but what if Kanter just stays without extension?
Anger sells, don't buy!
martin
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2/12/2018  5:08 PM
Finestrg wrote:kinda makes you rethink resigning Kanter in a way, esp. if the money for Kanter doesn't make sense when the time comes.

Been racking my brain about how Kanter fits into the team long term, next year will be crucial for him: gotta demonstrate big step up in defense and mid-range shots (which he takes none of this year).

If he can't do both, I just can't see Knicks signing him long term, too many max or near max players out there that would be better investments.

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Finestrg
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2/12/2018  5:09 PM
Nalod wrote:Our free agent push is with our without Kanters on the books?
center market won't be full this year and his salary at this level in my opinion is not that high. About fair.
He could OPT in and that gives us more or less flex for 2019?
If Noah takes a year off, can he still play off the bench for two years? We still have to pay him? we can always buy him out.
Let KOQ walk, sign someone for less.
Just thinking out loud, but what if Kanter just stays without extension?

I hear you on Kanter but it's difficult to see -- what if he opts in and then gets hurt next year (look what just happened to KP)?? Could cost himself millions..

Nalod
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2/12/2018  5:11 PM
Finestrg wrote:
Nalod wrote:Our free agent push is with our without Kanters on the books?
center market won't be full this year and his salary at this level in my opinion is not that high. About fair.
He could OPT in and that gives us more or less flex for 2019?
If Noah takes a year off, can he still play off the bench for two years? We still have to pay him? we can always buy him out.
Let KOQ walk, sign someone for less.
Just thinking out loud, but what if Kanter just stays without extension?

I hear you on Kanter but it's difficult to see -- what if he opts in and then gets hurt next year (look what just happened to KP)?? Could cost himself millions..

What if team does not want to extend him?

Anger sells, don't buy!
Finestrg
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2/12/2018  5:18 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/12/2018  8:55 PM
martin wrote:
Finestrg wrote:kinda makes you rethink resigning Kanter in a way, esp. if the money for Kanter doesn't make sense when the time comes.

Been racking my brain about how Kanter fits into the team long term, next year will be crucial for him: gotta demonstrate big step up in defense and mid-range shots (which he takes none of this year).

If he can't do both, I just can't see Knicks signing him long term, too many max or near max players out there that would be better investments.

If we did sign him, I'd allot him much more freedom in the offense. He'd be a guy that I made sure I went out of my way to get 15 shots a night for minimum (esp. w/o KP next yr). The jump shot thing is funny -- he actually does have one, with range all the way out to 3, believe it or not. He was taking and making 3s his last year in Utah. I like his jumper--very strange he hasn't been encouraged to shoot more. He's been open and has had opportunities... Maybe the Knicks are trying to suppress him somewhat offensively, thinking they could keep his eventual price tag down. Not sure, but if we wanted to use him a little differently next year, I think he's a 20/10 player very easily.

Who are the max or near max players you'd rather have over Kanter (specifically bigs)?

Finestrg
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2/12/2018  5:20 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/12/2018  5:22 PM
Nalod wrote:
Finestrg wrote:
Nalod wrote:Our free agent push is with our without Kanters on the books?
center market won't be full this year and his salary at this level in my opinion is not that high. About fair.
He could OPT in and that gives us more or less flex for 2019?
If Noah takes a year off, can he still play off the bench for two years? We still have to pay him? we can always buy him out.
Let KOQ walk, sign someone for less.
Just thinking out loud, but what if Kanter just stays without extension?

I hear you on Kanter but it's difficult to see -- what if he opts in and then gets hurt next year (look what just happened to KP)?? Could cost himself millions..

What if team does not want to extend him?

It's true, they may not. But if they don't, with KP out possibly 17 months and O'Quinn probably gone, what's out front court look like next year -- the bigs? Kornet (can we even call him a lock for next yr at this point?)...then who?

CrushAlot
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2/12/2018  5:24 PM
On the Duncan'd on after the trade deadline podcast they speculated that O'Quinn might opt in. Their thought was there wouldn't be much of a market for him. I thought it was interesting because I have always thought Kyle would opt out.
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Finestrg
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2/12/2018  5:30 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/12/2018  5:38 PM
CrushAlot wrote:On the Duncan'd on after the trade deadline podcast they speculated that O'Quinn might opt in. Their thought was there wouldn't be much of a market for him. I thought it was interesting because I have always thought Kyle would opt out.

Interesting. I was thinking he'd be an automatic opt out guy too. Even if he didn't get big money per year, I thought the security of a multi-year deal would be appealing for him. Seeing what happened to KP might give guys like KOQ and Kanter perspective. Esp. O'Quinn -- KP will come back from his injury--youth and the very good skill-set are still on his side. O'Quinn's not in the same category -- he ever went down with a torn ACL, he could see himself out of the league quick.

Finestrg
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2/12/2018  5:36 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/12/2018  5:40 PM
reub wrote:
Finestrg wrote:Just thinking out loud:

5 - Kanter (resigned hopefully at a rate. Good player that wants to be here. I'd then go out of my way to turn him into a 20/10 all-star level player next year, which shouldn't be too difficult. Should get more touches with KP down).
4 - Jordan Mickey (either a FA or a Miami Heat player option for about $1.6mm next yr depending on who's correct, Hoopshype or Spotrac. I'd look to grab this dude at all costs and play him 30+ mins next year).
3 - THJ
2 - Lee
1 - Mudiay
---------------------------
5 - Kornet
4 - Wendell Carter Jr. (1st round pick -- power/skill complement to Kanter/Kornet/KP and replacement for O'Quinn who I think opts out. Already very skilled and developed for a big and he should only get even better).
4/3 - Brandon Ashley (value FA signing)
[size=2]2/1 - Antonio Blakeney (MUST SIGN FA next year for me. ELITE offensive skills/legit 6th man of the year potential).
2/1 - Ntilikina
1 - Burke
---------------------------
2 - Damyean Dotson
2/1 - Baker (100% opts in. Poor decision to give him the contract we did but what's done is done).
3 - Lance Thomas (I'd buy him out--it's a lot of money but there are much better options out there. The open roster spot is more valuable to us. Ridiculous signing, really. The reality is he's not even worth half what we gave him).
1 - Jalen Brunson (2nd round pick, if he's even there which I have trouble picturing)
3 - Keita Bates-Diop (2nd round pick) *we could possibly move this pick
---------------------------
Noah - AUTOMATIC buyout
Christian Wood - alternative value FA signing

That's at least one too many players (provided we can use KP's roster spot) BUT I think there's things we could do to free up some space. It's a lot to ask of Dolan, I get it, but I'd buy out Noah and LT. We have ZERO use for either player (Noah's already being asked to stay away from the team--that's a relationship that's beyond repair + he sucks now anyway and G-Leaguer Brandon Ashley's already a better player than LT and I don't even think that's close).. We could look to make a trade for Mickey if MIA retains control of him, using an assortment of assets including maybe Frank N if I could get a future 1st & 2nd rounder along with Mickey--I think that's fair. Mudiay's already a better player and kind of makes Frank redundant now anyway (plus I want to see them keep Burke and get him legit PT). I don't see Frank becoming anywhere near all-star level which is why I wouldn't be opposed to moving him in the right deal (I know he's young but I already have a guarded view on his ceiling--doesn't feel like a player we'd ever regret trading). We could also dangle Dotson and the lesser of our 2 2nd rounders in a trade or *we could simply trade the lesser of our 2nd rounders for cash/a future pick. Maybe Brunson comes in right away and plays well, making instantly obsolete -- then we could keep Frank AND the lesser 2nd rounder. There are some possibilities here..

Why don't we sign Blakeney right now? We have an open roster spot. What else can you tell us about him?

Right now he's a two-way player for CHI, so they have control. But next yr, I believe he's a FA.. Been following him since he first starting making A LOT of noise in the G-League after going undrafted. I've seen him twice live on TV and seen all his tape on you tube. He looks legit! How many 40-pt games has he had this year? MONSTER scoring potential.. Great in the halfcourt and transition. To win, you gotta have guys that can put the ball in the hole and this dude can flat out do that. Wouldn't surprise me AT ALL to see him winning the 6th Man of the Year award in the NBA someday. He reminds me of Jamal Crawford on steroids! I think he'd be a great addition for us along with Jordan Mickey.

martin
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2/12/2018  5:45 PM
Finestrg wrote:
martin wrote:
Finestrg wrote:kinda makes you rethink resigning Kanter in a way, esp. if the money for Kanter doesn't make sense when the time comes.

Been racking my brain about how Kanter fits into the team long term, next year will be crucial for him: gotta demonstrate big step up in defense and mid-range shots (which he takes none of this year).

If he can't do both, I just can't see Knicks signing him long term, too many max or near max players out there that would be better investments.

If we did sign him, I allot him much more freedom in the offense. He'd be a guy that I made sure I went out of my way to get 15 shots a night for minimum (esp. w/o KP next yr). The jump shot thing is funny -- he actually does have one, with range all the way out to 3, believe it or not. He was taking and making 3s his last year in Utah. I like his jumper--very strange he hasn't been encouraged to shoot more. He's been open and has had opportunities... Maybe the Knicks are trying to suppress him somewhat offensively, thinking they could keep his eventual price tag down. Not sure, but if we wanted to use him a little differently next year, I think he's a 20/10 player very easily.

I don't think teams do this, hold a player back to keep his eventual price tag down, as you are suggesting. The question for me is Why isn't Kanter just shooting them if he CAN make them? He's got a very nice FT form and %. And it's just not the Knicks, right? He shied away from those shots at OKC.

I don't think teams would feature an offense player like Kanter as you are suggestion either, he's a very bad passer and pretty much a black hole on offense. He could certainly change. And unless his defense changes, I don't think he'll get enough minutes for 20/10.

Finestrg wrote:Who are the max or near max players you'd rather have over Kanter (specifically bigs)?

Lots of possibilities over the next few years and it all depends who opts in and out of contracts. I'd love for the Knicks to draft a big or 2 to compliment KP over the next 2 drafts, and maybe a SF too. After that you make FA decisions.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/2019/

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Paris907
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2/12/2018  7:32 PM
martin wrote:
Finestrg wrote:kinda makes you rethink resigning Kanter in a way, esp. if the money for Kanter doesn't make sense when the time comes.

Been racking my brain about how Kanter fits into the team long term, next year will be crucial for him: gotta demonstrate big step up in defense and mid-range shots (which he takes none of this year).

If he can't do both, I just can't see Knicks signing him long term, too many max or near max players out there that would be better investments.

Martin I agree. I like Carter plenty. If we fall to 7 I see other talents possibly in reach. Yet the issue is Defense. I like a double double like Kanter too but not for 18-19 and not when the analytics scream no no no as he still can’t okay defense. I mean Saric just strolled to the bucket. KP will comeback but he’s a rim protector but a weak rebounder. Thus, bring it Carter (or Bamba God willing)
And do what’s required.

EnySpree
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2/12/2018  8:59 PM
martin wrote:
Finestrg wrote:kinda makes you rethink resigning Kanter in a way, esp. if the money for Kanter doesn't make sense when the time comes.

Been racking my brain about how Kanter fits into the team long term, next year will be crucial for him: gotta demonstrate big step up in defense and mid-range shots (which he takes none of this year).

If he can't do both, I just can't see Knicks signing him long term, too many max or near max players out there that would be better investments.

I think the Knicks have got to talk to him. He wants to stay.... so we tell him to opt in. If he wants a more I'd offer a 2 year. We are going to be dead this year and next year. The Knicks need the flexibility for the 2019 off season. We gotta be real with him. If he cares abbot the team he'd be down.... but we have to work with him

You know why I'm here....
Finestrg
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2/12/2018  9:50 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/12/2018  10:04 PM
EnySpree wrote:
martin wrote:
Finestrg wrote:kinda makes you rethink resigning Kanter in a way, esp. if the money for Kanter doesn't make sense when the time comes.

Been racking my brain about how Kanter fits into the team long term, next year will be crucial for him: gotta demonstrate big step up in defense and mid-range shots (which he takes none of this year).

If he can't do both, I just can't see Knicks signing him long term, too many max or near max players out there that would be better investments.

I think the Knicks have got to talk to him. He wants to stay.... so we tell him to opt in. If he wants a more I'd offer a 2 year. We are going to be dead this year and next year. The Knicks need the flexibility for the 2019 off season. We gotta be real with him. If he cares abbot the team he'd be down.... but we have to work with him

I think I like Kanter on a long term deal or nothing at all. I mean what's the point next year without KP, you know? Next year should all be about uncovering some talent/developing our own young talent further, not really winning, sad as that even is to even say (do we even have our pick(s) in the summer of 2019?). Even Beasley, who I forgot to mention up top -- same deal. Is Beasley worth keeping, and if so, what's the number? 5 yrs/$40mm, in that neighborhood? I mean Beas has been solid for us--prob. asks for and receives more than that.. Kanter and Beasley next year--who cares, but starting the following yr (2019/20)--that's the year we want to focus on winning games once again and where we could benefit having both guys back...with KP back in the fold hopefully 100%. I dunno -- make any sense?

And what big man do we like in 2019 FA? Martin provided the link -- who in the PF and/or C categories do we like over Kanter and Beasley at the money these guys will command or more? 33-year-old Taj Gibson or the limited Ken Faried on some deal north of $15mm per? Dwight Howard for even more money than that? Or Nic Vucevic -- Vuc is gonna cost more than Kanter--his numbers are better--but isn't Kanter a very similar player, only 2 years younger? Point is, we might be better off locking up Kanter and/or Beasley now so we have them in the fold for the turnaround in 2019/20.

reub
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2/12/2018  10:04 PM
We should just play Frank, Mudiay and Burke at PG this year and next. If they don't develop then sign Kyrie in 19-20 when KP should be at full strength.

In the meantime we'll be tanking hard and acquiring good young talent for 2 drafts. Keep Noah on the team for next season and stretch him in 2019-20 when we want to be good.

Finestrg
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2/12/2018  10:07 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/12/2018  10:08 PM
reub wrote:We should just play Frank, Mudiay and Burke at PG this year and next. If they don't develop then sign Kyrie in 19-20 when KP should be at full strength.

In the meantime we'll be tanking hard and acquiring good young talent for 2 drafts. Keep Noah on the team for next season and stretch him in 2019-20 when we want to be good.

That's a thought.. I agree on those 3 PGs for next year, unless we wind up trading Frank and/or draft a guy like Jalen Brunson and he earns a spot. Question on Noah -- say we decided to buy him out -- could we then choose to stretch whatever money's left on the books after a buy out, even if he's gone?

reub
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2/12/2018  10:10 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/12/2018  10:11 PM
Finestrg wrote:
reub wrote:We should just play Frank, Mudiay and Burke at PG this year and next. If they don't develop then sign Kyrie in 19-20 when KP should be at full strength.

In the meantime we'll be tanking hard and acquiring good young talent for 2 drafts. Keep Noah on the team for next season and stretch him in 2019-20 when we want to be good.

That's a thought.. I agree on those 3 PGs for next year, unless we wind up trading Frank and/or draft a guy like Jalen Brunson and he earns a spot. Question on Noah -- say we decided to buy him out -- could we then choose to stretch whatever money's left on the books after a buy out, even if he's gone?


I don't know. It seems to make sense, though. But we really don't want to be good next year. We should focus everything on acquiring talent through the draft and developing the kids until KP is ready. Let Noah sit at home and count his money next year for all I care.

And spend big in 2019-2020. Especially on Kyrie.

Possible roster for 2018/19

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