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Frank is not a point guard
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SupremeCommander
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2/11/2018  10:20 PM
nyk4ever wrote:frank is 19 years old. calling him anything other than a teenager right now is pretty stupid.

coudn't agree more

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EnySpree
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2/11/2018  10:37 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/11/2018  10:38 PM
blkexec wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:frank is 19 years old. calling him anything other than a teenager right now is pretty stupid.

Once you get drafted and start playing a man's game, age is out the window. This is not his fittest sessdiin as a pro. His team went to the finals in France last year. So blaming Horny is stupid. Calling Frank a point guard is stupid.

If Frank was the only player that has regressed under hornacek....then I would agree with u. But the facts are facts.....several players have regressed under hornacek including THj and KP. So blaming Hornacek is not stupid.

Frank played PG in the finals in a pro league. Frank was drafted as a PG. Coach has played Frank at PG all season....Calling Frank a PG is also not stupid. But I get your point. Frank is a better SG than PG in your opinion. NP.....I rather scratch the labels and say he's a solid guard to have on the team. and if hes solid now at 19.....playing with grown men at the highest level of competition in the world? Then imagine what he looks like at 21.

Ignore where he was drafted for a second.....thats really the only thing that hard to swallow right now. But he's still a great character defensive minded young leader type potential.

Frank isn't regressing under Hornacek.... that's just how he's been playing. Forget position labels andwhere he was drafted.... He's still not a guy you want as your lead guard. Mudiay proved that in one game.... but like I said this game foreshadowed a bright future for the Knicks going forward. Mudiay at point with Frank at the 2.... that's our future. When KP comes back in a year, hopefully these guys will be kicking ass consistently for us

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nixluva
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2/11/2018  11:14 PM
I will say that we need to be careful making any definitive statements about what Frank is. He was drafted as a RAW offensive player. His ceiling is unknowable at this stage. What I do know is that he’s ahead of the game defensively and he can pass already. His personal scoring skills will continue to improve as they already from where he was during the U18 Tournament to now.

It’s a mistake to judge him in reference to another player. His development is on its own schedule. As Frank improves his skills his confidence will grow and his game will expand. From what I see it’s not that Frank is incapable but rather he hasn’t fully developed. He’s so much smoother than he was at the start of the season.
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2/11/2018  11:41 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/11/2018  11:45 PM
Jmpasq wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:Frank is a combo guard. However I agree I think he looks better off the ball BUT that doesn't mean he cant play point guard because we have seen him have some success too. its also imports to remember that he is 19. But I do agree I think mudiay and him play well together and mudiay does help take some pressure off the kid and allows him to be more aggressive

Courtney Lee could pay some point. Jamal Crawford can play some point. Andre iggy can play singe point.... you can run down the line. They shouldn't be playing point exclusively.... but next to a real point guard they are a serious weapon. I'm excited for what I saw tonight. Great days are ahead of us

It would be fantastic if Frank could be like 80% of Iggy in his prime. Give us like 13 4 4 and elite defense

Being only 19....if Frank gets 2 more inches he could be a high quality SF in the mold of Iggy. I think more that is where his future lies to maximize his talents. As a 2 he reminds me of Raja Bell.

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Paris907
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2/12/2018  7:20 AM
nixluva wrote:I will say that we need to be careful making any definitive statements about what Frank is. He was drafted as a RAW offensive player. His ceiling is unknowable at this stage. What I do know is that he’s ahead of the game defensively and he can pass already. His personal scoring skills will continue to improve as they already from where he was during the U18 Tournament to now.

It’s a mistake to judge him in reference to another player. His development is on its own schedule. As Frank improves his skills his confidence will grow and his game will expand. From what I see it’s not that Frank is incapable but rather he hasn’t fully developed. He’s so much smoother than he was at the start of the season.

Gee Nix I didn’t know that an intelligent comment was allowed. You’re right. Frank lacks confidence - he doesn’t shoot when it’s obvious he should —- always looks to Pass first to a fault. Yet he’s skilled, has length, quicilkness, speed and instincts. At 19 he is just a rook and still raw. He wants to improve and he will
franco12
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2/12/2018  7:30 AM
he is a very different kind of pg, if he is one.

Hopefully Frank and Mudiay develop into the next Darrell Walker/Rory Sparrows or Charlie Ward/Chris Childs- and I mean that in a positive way.

Both had better be shooting jumpers over the summer, and I hope our FO and coaching staff have some way of enabling that to happen.
GustavBahler
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2/12/2018  7:32 AM
Its about finding the role that is best suited for his skill set, and temperament. Right now it feels like Frank playing PG is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

A former teammate from France said not to expect a lot of scoring. The ability to be the man on offense is part of the package of being an NBA starting PG.

Doesnt matter where Frank plays as long as its the best spot for him.
blkexec
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2/12/2018  8:01 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/12/2018  8:05 AM
EnySpree wrote:
blkexec wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:frank is 19 years old. calling him anything other than a teenager right now is pretty stupid.

Once you get drafted and start playing a man's game, age is out the window. This is not his fittest sessdiin as a pro. His team went to the finals in France last year. So blaming Horny is stupid. Calling Frank a point guard is stupid.

If Frank was the only player that has regressed under hornacek....then I would agree with u. But the facts are facts.....several players have regressed under hornacek including THj and KP. So blaming Hornacek is not stupid.

Frank played PG in the finals in a pro league. Frank was drafted as a PG. Coach has played Frank at PG all season....Calling Frank a PG is also not stupid. But I get your point. Frank is a better SG than PG in your opinion. NP.....I rather scratch the labels and say he's a solid guard to have on the team. and if hes solid now at 19.....playing with grown men at the highest level of competition in the world? Then imagine what he looks like at 21.

Ignore where he was drafted for a second.....thats really the only thing that hard to swallow right now. But he's still a great character defensive minded young leader type potential.

Frank isn't regressing under Hornacek.... that's just how he's been playing. Forget position labels andwhere he was drafted.... He's still not a guy you want as your lead guard. Mudiay proved that in one game.... but like I said this game foreshadowed a bright future for the Knicks going forward. Mudiay at point with Frank at the 2.... that's our future. When KP comes back in a year, hopefully these guys will be kicking ass consistently for us

The NY post this morning confirms my thought on Hornacek lack of development on Frank's game.

not enough developmental coaches. One NBA assistant recently pointed to Ntilikina’s modest development this season as perhaps a cause.

Which is why porgioni is being looked at to help Hornacek...

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GustavBahler
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2/12/2018  8:08 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/12/2018  8:09 AM
blkexec wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
blkexec wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:frank is 19 years old. calling him anything other than a teenager right now is pretty stupid.

Once you get drafted and start playing a man's game, age is out the window. This is not his fittest sessdiin as a pro. His team went to the finals in France last year. So blaming Horny is stupid. Calling Frank a point guard is stupid.

If Frank was the only player that has regressed under hornacek....then I would agree with u. But the facts are facts.....several players have regressed under hornacek including THj and KP. So blaming Hornacek is not stupid.

Frank played PG in the finals in a pro league. Frank was drafted as a PG. Coach has played Frank at PG all season....Calling Frank a PG is also not stupid. But I get your point. Frank is a better SG than PG in your opinion. NP.....I rather scratch the labels and say he's a solid guard to have on the team. and if hes solid now at 19.....playing with grown men at the highest level of competition in the world? Then imagine what he looks like at 21.

Ignore where he was drafted for a second.....thats really the only thing that hard to swallow right now. But he's still a great character defensive minded young leader type potential.

Frank isn't regressing under Hornacek.... that's just how he's been playing. Forget position labels andwhere he was drafted.... He's still not a guy you want as your lead guard. Mudiay proved that in one game.... but like I said this game foreshadowed a bright future for the Knicks going forward. Mudiay at point with Frank at the 2.... that's our future. When KP comes back in a year, hopefully these guys will be kicking ass consistently for us

The NY post this morning confirms my thought on Hornacek lack of development on Frank's game.

not enough developmental coaches. One NBA assistant recently pointed to Ntilikina’s modest development this season as perhaps a cause.

Which is why porgioni is being looked at to help Hornacek...

Thats something mgmt needs to be focused on. Adding personnel. Believe it was the Nets talking to Prigs.
blkexec
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2/12/2018  8:50 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
blkexec wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
blkexec wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:frank is 19 years old. calling him anything other than a teenager right now is pretty stupid.

Once you get drafted and start playing a man's game, age is out the window. This is not his fittest sessdiin as a pro. His team went to the finals in France last year. So blaming Horny is stupid. Calling Frank a point guard is stupid.

If Frank was the only player that has regressed under hornacek....then I would agree with u. But the facts are facts.....several players have regressed under hornacek including THj and KP. So blaming Hornacek is not stupid.

Frank played PG in the finals in a pro league. Frank was drafted as a PG. Coach has played Frank at PG all season....Calling Frank a PG is also not stupid. But I get your point. Frank is a better SG than PG in your opinion. NP.....I rather scratch the labels and say he's a solid guard to have on the team. and if hes solid now at 19.....playing with grown men at the highest level of competition in the world? Then imagine what he looks like at 21.

Ignore where he was drafted for a second.....thats really the only thing that hard to swallow right now. But he's still a great character defensive minded young leader type potential.

Frank isn't regressing under Hornacek.... that's just how he's been playing. Forget position labels andwhere he was drafted.... He's still not a guy you want as your lead guard. Mudiay proved that in one game.... but like I said this game foreshadowed a bright future for the Knicks going forward. Mudiay at point with Frank at the 2.... that's our future. When KP comes back in a year, hopefully these guys will be kicking ass consistently for us

The NY post this morning confirms my thought on Hornacek lack of development on Frank's game.

not enough developmental coaches. One NBA assistant recently pointed to Ntilikina’s modest development this season as perhaps a cause.

Which is why porgioni is being looked at to help Hornacek...

Thats something mgmt needs to be focused on. Adding personnel. Believe it was the Nets talking to Prigs.


http://www.ultimateknicks.com/outerlink.asp?id=142131968

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
Panos
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2/12/2018  9:00 AM
Frank is not a point guard

Frank is not a starting NBA basketball player.

GustavBahler
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2/12/2018  9:07 AM
blkexec wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
blkexec wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
blkexec wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:frank is 19 years old. calling him anything other than a teenager right now is pretty stupid.

Once you get drafted and start playing a man's game, age is out the window. This is not his fittest sessdiin as a pro. His team went to the finals in France last year. So blaming Horny is stupid. Calling Frank a point guard is stupid.

If Frank was the only player that has regressed under hornacek....then I would agree with u. But the facts are facts.....several players have regressed under hornacek including THj and KP. So blaming Hornacek is not stupid.

Frank played PG in the finals in a pro league. Frank was drafted as a PG. Coach has played Frank at PG all season....Calling Frank a PG is also not stupid. But I get your point. Frank is a better SG than PG in your opinion. NP.....I rather scratch the labels and say he's a solid guard to have on the team. and if hes solid now at 19.....playing with grown men at the highest level of competition in the world? Then imagine what he looks like at 21.

Ignore where he was drafted for a second.....thats really the only thing that hard to swallow right now. But he's still a great character defensive minded young leader type potential.

Frank isn't regressing under Hornacek.... that's just how he's been playing. Forget position labels andwhere he was drafted.... He's still not a guy you want as your lead guard. Mudiay proved that in one game.... but like I said this game foreshadowed a bright future for the Knicks going forward. Mudiay at point with Frank at the 2.... that's our future. When KP comes back in a year, hopefully these guys will be kicking ass consistently for us

The NY post this morning confirms my thought on Hornacek lack of development on Frank's game.

not enough developmental coaches. One NBA assistant recently pointed to Ntilikina’s modest development this season as perhaps a cause.

Which is why porgioni is being looked at to help Hornacek...

Thats something mgmt needs to be focused on. Adding personnel. Believe it was the Nets talking to Prigs.


http://www.ultimateknicks.com/outerlink.asp?id=142131968

Prigioni is in New York this week after being invited by the Nets to spend a week with them. According to a source, he’s learning all phases of Brooklyn’s basketball operation.

Meeting Pablo, inviting him to Brooklyn> Thinking about it.

Hope its accurate. Came from different places but Pablo went from international competition, to the NBA. Was already an established vet, might be able to help Frank bridge the divide.

Wish we could hire Derek Harper. He said he was dissapointed the Knicks didnt give him a front office job, he believes because of 94'. I agree with the thrust of this article, that the Knicks need to step up development. Not just fancy buildings.
GustavBahler
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2/12/2018  9:28 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/12/2018  9:32 AM
Maybe hire a retired NBA head coach with a track record of developing players to live and work full time in Westchester. Let him pick his own staff, let him develop coaches as well.
EnySpree
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2/12/2018  9:36 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/12/2018  9:59 AM
blkexec wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
blkexec wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
blkexec wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:frank is 19 years old. calling him anything other than a teenager right now is pretty stupid.

Once you get drafted and start playing a man's game, age is out the window. This is not his fittest sessdiin as a pro. His team went to the finals in France last year. So blaming Horny is stupid. Calling Frank a point guard is stupid.

If Frank was the only player that has regressed under hornacek....then I would agree with u. But the facts are facts.....several players have regressed under hornacek including THj and KP. So blaming Hornacek is not stupid.

Frank played PG in the finals in a pro league. Frank was drafted as a PG. Coach has played Frank at PG all season....Calling Frank a PG is also not stupid. But I get your point. Frank is a better SG than PG in your opinion. NP.....I rather scratch the labels and say he's a solid guard to have on the team. and if hes solid now at 19.....playing with grown men at the highest level of competition in the world? Then imagine what he looks like at 21.

Ignore where he was drafted for a second.....thats really the only thing that hard to swallow right now. But he's still a great character defensive minded young leader type potential.

Frank isn't regressing under Hornacek.... that's just how he's been playing. Forget position labels andwhere he was drafted.... He's still not a guy you want as your lead guard. Mudiay proved that in one game.... but like I said this game foreshadowed a bright future for the Knicks going forward. Mudiay at point with Frank at the 2.... that's our future. When KP comes back in a year, hopefully these guys will be kicking ass consistently for us

The NY post this morning confirms my thought on Hornacek lack of development on Frank's game.

not enough developmental coaches. One NBA assistant recently pointed to Ntilikina’s modest development this season as perhaps a cause.

Which is why porgioni is being looked at to help Hornacek...

Thats something mgmt needs to be focused on. Adding personnel. Believe it was the Nets talking to Prigs.


http://www.ultimateknicks.com/outerlink.asp?id=142131968

I guess this is a different time. You guys think player development means playing guys even when they don't deserve it and hiring guys to shadow players to mentor them....

This is the pro level not the big brothers program. This isn't a half way house where we're trying to keep kids off the street.

Frank needs hands on development... I agree with that but isn't that what the g league is for? We don't need that babying to be done at the NBA level. If he can't grow at this level them he has to go back. That's not on Hornacek. Frank is petrified to shoot the ball. He keeps jamming passes when he should be shooting. He keeps picking up his dribble....

Mudiay is in the boat where he can get better by playing. He just needs to learn his teammates and how to execute the coaches plan. That takes reps. Mudiay looks like he's ready now though. He's just gonna get better. Frank is just not on his level at all.... Frank has too much to learn to keep forcing the point guard spot on him. I think he would florish if those responsibilities were taken from him.

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fishmike
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2/12/2018  10:38 AM
Panos wrote:
Frank is not a point guard

Frank is not a starting NBA basketball player.


there have been a handful of 19 year olds in the history of the league capable of that. I am ok with Frank no being one of them.

The Knicks have never drafted a prospect like this and its not surprising fans dont really know what do make of this process. The key word is process. Frank was drafted because of physical tools. What hopefully separates him from guy who were drafted for these reasons in the past is Frank's love for the game and his hard work. But we arent going to know that for awhile.

I guess for the guy's declaring what he is or isnt what was your expectation?

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/frank-ntilikina

Overall: Ntilikina is undoubtedly one of the best International players of his generation. His elite physical tools and feel for the game, combined with his high upside makes him a really intriguing prospect ... He is not NBA ready just yet, but he has all the tools to become a very good player in the future ...

I mean if this isnt spot on from nbadraft I dont know what is. We have seen Frank on several times lock down the league's elite guards helping the Knicks to wins. We have seen him make great plays and hit big shots. We have seen him telegraph passes, dribble off his feet and make every possible mistake conceivable.

Guys like hofstra see this view point as defending Frank's poor play. This makes no sense. Its like defending my 5 year old's inability to do algebra.

These are the growing pains you accept when you draft a project. Frank was drafted for his high ceiling. Not his ability to play PG at an NBA.

Thread is a 100% correct. Frank is not an NBA PG. Everyone knows this. The question is can and will he be?

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
knicks1248
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2/12/2018  10:58 AM
Frankie is one of the only rookies in his class that has receives more minutes the worse he plays.

Frank cant shoot, it ok he's only 19

Frank turns the ball over too much, it ok he's only 19

Frank makes too many ill advised passes, it's ok he's only 19

Give frank more minutes, it's ok he's only 19

Frank can play how ever he likes because he's only 19

Next season is going to be worse, can you remember a single rookie (aside from david lee) that has progress in his 2nd yr under the knicks management, I don't even think that's debatable.

ES
Knixkik
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2/12/2018  11:06 AM
knicks1248 wrote:Frankie is one of the only rookies in his class that has receives more minutes the worse he plays.

Frank cant shoot, it ok he's only 19

Frank turns the ball over too much, it ok he's only 19

Frank makes too many ill advised passes, it's ok he's only 19

Give frank more minutes, it's ok he's only 19

Frank can play how ever he likes because he's only 19

Next season is going to be worse, can you remember a single rookie (aside from david lee) that has progress in his 2nd yr under the knicks management, I don't even think that's debatable.

Frank has shot 5-9 from three in the last 7 games. Not a huge sample size, but we can all see the frank CAN shoot. He shoots well when he decides he's going to shoot. His shot is smooth when in rhythm. At the very least, he is going to be a 3 & D guard who can facilitate some. I think Mudiay is great for him.
Nalod
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2/12/2018  11:15 AM
knicks1248 wrote:Frankie is one of the only rookies in his class that has receives more minutes the worse he plays.

Frank cant shoot, it ok he's only 19

Frank turns the ball over too much, it ok he's only 19

Frank makes too many ill advised passes, it's ok he's only 19

Give frank more minutes, it's ok he's only 19

Frank can play how ever he likes because he's only 19

Next season is going to be worse, can you remember a single rookie (aside from david lee) that has progress in his 2nd yr under the knicks management, I don't even think that's debatable.

KP. Look it up.
And, why is history a determiner for the future if its plainly obvious our FO is commited to youth?
What does any other rookie under any other coach or GM in Knick History matter if this is what we are doing now with our staff, and Management?

Yes, Frank is only 19. How many kids out of high school can make the leap to the NBA and impact a game?
Frank can defend, He is only 19.
Frank can impact a game. He is only 19.
Frank is a league leader in steals. He is only 19.
Frank impressed enough to be in the all rookie game. He is only 19.
Rookies are inconsistent. Rookies with potential are given leeway.
He is 19, great tools. You give him minutes.
NYKBocker
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2/12/2018  11:18 AM
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Frankie is one of the only rookies in his class that has receives more minutes the worse he plays.

Frank cant shoot, it ok he's only 19

Frank turns the ball over too much, it ok he's only 19

Frank makes too many ill advised passes, it's ok he's only 19

Give frank more minutes, it's ok he's only 19

Frank can play how ever he likes because he's only 19

Next season is going to be worse, can you remember a single rookie (aside from david lee) that has progress in his 2nd yr under the knicks management, I don't even think that's debatable.

KP. Look it up.
And, why is history a determiner for the future if its plainly obvious our FO is commited to youth?
What does any other rookie under any other coach or GM in Knick History matter if this is what we are doing now with our staff, and Management?

Yes, Frank is only 19. How many kids out of high school can make the leap to the NBA and impact a game?
Frank can defend, He is only 19.
Frank can impact a game. He is only 19.
Frank is a league leader in steals. He is only 19.
Frank impressed enough to be in the all rookie game. He is only 19.
Rookies are inconsistent. Rookies with potential are given leeway.
He is 19, great tools. You give him minutes.

Thank you.
Knixkik
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2/12/2018  11:49 AM
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Frankie is one of the only rookies in his class that has receives more minutes the worse he plays.

Frank cant shoot, it ok he's only 19

Frank turns the ball over too much, it ok he's only 19

Frank makes too many ill advised passes, it's ok he's only 19

Give frank more minutes, it's ok he's only 19

Frank can play how ever he likes because he's only 19

Next season is going to be worse, can you remember a single rookie (aside from david lee) that has progress in his 2nd yr under the knicks management, I don't even think that's debatable.

KP. Look it up.
And, why is history a determiner for the future if its plainly obvious our FO is commited to youth?
What does any other rookie under any other coach or GM in Knick History matter if this is what we are doing now with our staff, and Management?

Yes, Frank is only 19. How many kids out of high school can make the leap to the NBA and impact a game?
Frank can defend, He is only 19.
Frank can impact a game. He is only 19.
Frank is a league leader in steals. He is only 19.
Frank impressed enough to be in the all rookie game. He is only 19.
Rookies are inconsistent. Rookies with potential are given leeway.
He is 19, great tools. You give him minutes.

Yes, KP absolutely improved in year 2. I don't get where people say he didn't. Makes zero sense.
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