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Where are we since Dolan brought in Jackson for complete reboot?
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HofstraBBall
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2/5/2018  5:11 PM
Our favorite subject. I know the turnaround still has another 5 years before anyone expects anything. But we had a 54 win season, got to conference finals, had a injury filled season year after, never upgraded the roster and resulted in a losing year. Setting up Dolan to bring in the savior. Five year plan...right. OK, rebuild and get young assets was the goal. A bit strange that he traded the defensive player of the year and Felton for a bag of donuts (Jose, Dalembert). Gives up on sixth man of the year for nothing. Trades former first round draft picks...for nothing. Fired a popular head coach for a guy that never coached and likes other players wives.

But okay, its a process and every year since then we have expected to build our young core and add draft picks. We expected a lottey pick last summer to get us another franchise type player. That was the plan so....what do we have?

Young Core? Willy wants out. Timmy looks like he should not be included. Frank is young but has not proven anything. No one will dare include, Baker, Dotson, Randle as our core anymore. Kanter, Doug may not be here past next year or possibly Feb 8th. So where is the CORE? KP?

Draft picks? Phil/Gaines made one good one, KP, which by the way has been playing like a stretch complimentary piece and not like a franchise player. Kid is too soft, likes to flop and has not overcome the fact he does not fit his position. He is a 7'3 SF. that does not create for others or pass the ball. At least with Dad Melo, he showed signs, if surrounded with decent players. As for our lottery pick, Frank has become a possible late bloomer, at best. I dont think he will ever be a good offensive player. Poor mans Andre Roberson. Maybe. We have a teen pick, if stay on current path, which historically been tough to gauge.

fishmike Posts: 48006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA 6/23/2016 12:35 PM fishmike worte" The dream? Would be Pg Rose SG GPII SF Durant PF Melo C Noah Bench: KP, Langston, KOQ, Clyde Frazier
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StarksEwing1
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2/5/2018  5:21 PM
I think some put too much stock in that 54 win team. yes it was nice but once we got the postseason we were pretty much smoked. Obviously the next season we came back to earth and that team was never gonna work. When it comes to Phil I never sugarcoat it he did sme really bonehead things(The noah signing, rose trade} being at the top of the list. But he also added some good young pieces. However it was clear he needed to go ASAP. I actually like Perry. I know some people recently have blamed him fir the Hardaway signing but he wasn't even here yet so he shouldn't get any blame. I think Timmy was doing well until the injury. Perry also did well in the Melo trade which was something that also needed desperately to be done. Going into this year I expected it to be a bumpy year anyway. However I think we do have good days ahead. We have all our draft picks which is nice for a change. As for The Willy situation I still think the media is trying to stir stuff up. yes I agree he is probably frustrated but I think its more likely KOQ is traded this week.
HofstraBBall
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2/5/2018  5:40 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/5/2018  5:44 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:I think some put too much stock in that 54 win team. yes it was nice but once we got the postseason we were pretty much smoked. Obviously the next season we came back to earth and that team was never gonna work. When it comes to Phil I never sugarcoat it he did sme really bonehead things(The noah signing, rose trade} being at the top of the list. But he also added some good young pieces. However it was clear he needed to go ASAP. I actually like Perry. I know some people recently have blamed him fir the Hardaway signing but he wasn't even here yet so he shouldn't get any blame. I think Timmy was doing well until the injury. Perry also did well in the Melo trade which was something that also needed desperately to be done. Going into this year I expected it to be a bumpy year anyway. However I think we do have good days ahead. We have all our draft picks which is nice for a change. As for The Willy situation I still think the media is trying to stir stuff up. yes I agree he is probably frustrated but I think its more likely KOQ is traded this week.

So far I cant say anything bad about Mills/Perry this year. Agree on job with Melo. Only thing maybe over paying for TImmy. (Like him and thought Phil gave up on him)

But here is my take on Mills/Perry. Mills is useless. He is selling this rebuild (yet again) only for the sake of keeping his position for another 5 years. He does not have the ability to put together contending team. He is only good at managing expectations. Perry may have some more BBall IQ but I just dont think he will have much input with Mills and Dolan around. (Have you seen him at pressers when Mills is around?)

Here is my point. Its 4 years later and we cant really say we have anyhting besides KP. Who is not exactly playing like a guy that you can build around. Yet all the ones that argued for the rebuild and Phil just cant admit it was a bad move, Phil was the wrong choice and that rebuilds are not as simple as they made it seem.

What will change my outlook is what takes place at trade deadline and in the off season. We need to sell at dead line and try to collect assets/draft picks. But then I want them to use those assets, not for another chance at winning the draft Lotto, but by adding a proven young piece. We have seen that all the hype surrounding draft picks is just that...hype.

fishmike Posts: 48006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA 6/23/2016 12:35 PM fishmike worte" The dream? Would be Pg Rose SG GPII SF Durant PF Melo C Noah Bench: KP, Langston, KOQ, Clyde Frazier
StarksEwing1
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2/5/2018  5:47 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:I think some put too much stock in that 54 win team. yes it was nice but once we got the postseason we were pretty much smoked. Obviously the next season we came back to earth and that team was never gonna work. When it comes to Phil I never sugarcoat it he did sme really bonehead things(The noah signing, rose trade} being at the top of the list. But he also added some good young pieces. However it was clear he needed to go ASAP. I actually like Perry. I know some people recently have blamed him fir the Hardaway signing but he wasn't even here yet so he shouldn't get any blame. I think Timmy was doing well until the injury. Perry also did well in the Melo trade which was something that also needed desperately to be done. Going into this year I expected it to be a bumpy year anyway. However I think we do have good days ahead. We have all our draft picks which is nice for a change. As for The Willy situation I still think the media is trying to stir stuff up. yes I agree he is probably frustrated but I think its more likely KOQ is traded this week.

So far I cant say anything bad about Mills/Perry this year. Agree on job with Melo. Only thing maybe over paying for TImmy. (Like him and thought Phil gave up on him)

But here is my take on Mills/Perry. Mills is useless. He is selling this rebuild (yet again) only for the sake of keeping his position for another 5 years. He does not have the ability to put together contending team. He is only good at managing expectations. Perry may have some more BBall IQ but I just dont think he will have much input with Mills and Dolan around. (Have you seen him at pressers when Mills is around?)

Here is my point. Its 4 years later and we cant really say we have anyhting besides KP. Who is not exactly playing like a guy that you can build around. What will change my outlook is what takes place at trade deadline and in the off season. We need to sell at dead line and try to collect assets/draft picks. But then I want them to use those assets, not for another chance at winning the draft Lotto, but by adding a proven young piece. We have seen that all the hype surrounding draft picks is just that...hype.

Thats fair. I agree about Mills(he isnt a bball guy) When it coes to KP its important to remmeber that he is still very very young and each year he has taken a positive step forward...it just cant happen overnight. As for draft pciks i admit ive always been big on draft picks. maybe its because for 15 yaers we traded all our draft pciks for crap and actually got worse. Yes i agree not all draft pciks work out but i still feel its important to have especially in a salary cap world. Im not trying to paint a rosey pickture its defefinetly frustarting right now. However im glad they arent panicksing making a classic bad knick trade like we did for many years. This is defnetly a team that is gonna take some time
HofstraBBall
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2/5/2018  6:20 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:I think some put too much stock in that 54 win team. yes it was nice but once we got the postseason we were pretty much smoked. Obviously the next season we came back to earth and that team was never gonna work. When it comes to Phil I never sugarcoat it he did sme really bonehead things(The noah signing, rose trade} being at the top of the list. But he also added some good young pieces. However it was clear he needed to go ASAP. I actually like Perry. I know some people recently have blamed him fir the Hardaway signing but he wasn't even here yet so he shouldn't get any blame. I think Timmy was doing well until the injury. Perry also did well in the Melo trade which was something that also needed desperately to be done. Going into this year I expected it to be a bumpy year anyway. However I think we do have good days ahead. We have all our draft picks which is nice for a change. As for The Willy situation I still think the media is trying to stir stuff up. yes I agree he is probably frustrated but I think its more likely KOQ is traded this week.

So far I cant say anything bad about Mills/Perry this year. Agree on job with Melo. Only thing maybe over paying for TImmy. (Like him and thought Phil gave up on him)

But here is my take on Mills/Perry. Mills is useless. He is selling this rebuild (yet again) only for the sake of keeping his position for another 5 years. He does not have the ability to put together contending team. He is only good at managing expectations. Perry may have some more BBall IQ but I just dont think he will have much input with Mills and Dolan around. (Have you seen him at pressers when Mills is around?)

Here is my point. Its 4 years later and we cant really say we have anyhting besides KP. Who is not exactly playing like a guy that you can build around. What will change my outlook is what takes place at trade deadline and in the off season. We need to sell at dead line and try to collect assets/draft picks. But then I want them to use those assets, not for another chance at winning the draft Lotto, but by adding a proven young piece. We have seen that all the hype surrounding draft picks is just that...hype.

Thats fair. I agree about Mills(he isnt a bball guy) When it coes to KP its important to remmeber that he is still very very young and each year he has taken a positive step forward...it just cant happen overnight. As for draft pciks i admit ive always been big on draft picks. maybe its because for 15 yaers we traded all our draft pciks for crap and actually got worse. Yes i agree not all draft pciks work out but i still feel its important to have especially in a salary cap world. Im not trying to paint a rosey pickture its defefinetly frustarting right now. However im glad they arent panicksing making a classic bad knick trade like we did for many years. This is defnetly a team that is gonna take some time

Cant tell why KP has not cntinued the progression he seemed to be on headed early on. Would hate to think its his team and business side who seems to be focused on only scoring. It's also the coaching staff that needs to emphasixe how to elevate his passing game to what the high level players are doing. But agree, he is young. Also, agree about the need to add draft picks. Just want to use them for a young proven player on the cusp. But agree, definately not on some big name over hill All Star.

fishmike Posts: 48006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA 6/23/2016 12:35 PM fishmike worte" The dream? Would be Pg Rose SG GPII SF Durant PF Melo C Noah Bench: KP, Langston, KOQ, Clyde Frazier
GoNyGoNyGo
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2/5/2018  6:30 PM
We are younger and have a player or two. Better off for sure. Our star needs a serious sidekick.
Yet another mistake by Dolan. When will it end?
martin
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2/5/2018  6:46 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:I think some put too much stock in that 54 win team. yes it was nice but once we got the postseason we were pretty much smoked. Obviously the next season we came back to earth and that team was never gonna work. When it comes to Phil I never sugarcoat it he did sme really bonehead things(The noah signing, rose trade} being at the top of the list. But he also added some good young pieces. However it was clear he needed to go ASAP. I actually like Perry. I know some people recently have blamed him fir the Hardaway signing but he wasn't even here yet so he shouldn't get any blame. I think Timmy was doing well until the injury. Perry also did well in the Melo trade which was something that also needed desperately to be done. Going into this year I expected it to be a bumpy year anyway. However I think we do have good days ahead. We have all our draft picks which is nice for a change. As for The Willy situation I still think the media is trying to stir stuff up. yes I agree he is probably frustrated but I think its more likely KOQ is traded this week.

So far I cant say anything bad about Mills/Perry this year. Agree on job with Melo. Only thing maybe over paying for TImmy. (Like him and thought Phil gave up on him)

But here is my take on Mills/Perry. Mills is useless. He is selling this rebuild (yet again) only for the sake of keeping his position for another 5 years. He does not have the ability to put together contending team. He is only good at managing expectations. Perry may have some more BBall IQ but I just dont think he will have much input with Mills and Dolan around. (Have you seen him at pressers when Mills is around?)

Here is my point. Its 4 years later and we cant really say we have anyhting besides KP. Who is not exactly playing like a guy that you can build around. Yet all the ones that argued for the rebuild and Phil just cant admit it was a bad move, Phil was the wrong choice and that rebuilds are not as simple as they made it seem.

What will change my outlook is what takes place at trade deadline and in the off season. We need to sell at dead line and try to collect assets/draft picks. But then I want them to use those assets, not for another chance at winning the draft Lotto, but by adding a proven young piece. We have seen that all the hype surrounding draft picks is just that...hype.

Only time will tell but he did have Mills/Dolan hold off on a Melo deal (or maybe several iterations of them) until he found one he liked, OKC.

And then Jack, Beas, Sessions, Burke.

Go off of what you know and make an evaluation, not what you speculate and then have a pessimistic take on.

And BTW, IMHO KP is EXACTLY who you build around, or in the very least, start to build around.

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CrushAlot
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2/5/2018  7:10 PM
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:We are younger and have a player or two. Better off for sure. Our star needs a serious sidekick.
I agree. Bondy wrote an article attacking the rebuild. Not much there but this from Jeff bothered me.
“The thought at the beginning of the year was Frank at some point would become (the starter),” Hornacek said. “But he’s still trying to grasp having to go out there every single night and play so I don’t know if we’re quite there.”

Is that a current quote?
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
knicks1248
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2/5/2018  7:12 PM
martin wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:I think some put too much stock in that 54 win team. yes it was nice but once we got the postseason we were pretty much smoked. Obviously the next season we came back to earth and that team was never gonna work. When it comes to Phil I never sugarcoat it he did sme really bonehead things(The noah signing, rose trade} being at the top of the list. But he also added some good young pieces. However it was clear he needed to go ASAP. I actually like Perry. I know some people recently have blamed him fir the Hardaway signing but he wasn't even here yet so he shouldn't get any blame. I think Timmy was doing well until the injury. Perry also did well in the Melo trade which was something that also needed desperately to be done. Going into this year I expected it to be a bumpy year anyway. However I think we do have good days ahead. We have all our draft picks which is nice for a change. As for The Willy situation I still think the media is trying to stir stuff up. yes I agree he is probably frustrated but I think its more likely KOQ is traded this week.

So far I cant say anything bad about Mills/Perry this year. Agree on job with Melo. Only thing maybe over paying for TImmy. (Like him and thought Phil gave up on him)

But here is my take on Mills/Perry. Mills is useless. He is selling this rebuild (yet again) only for the sake of keeping his position for another 5 years. He does not have the ability to put together contending team. He is only good at managing expectations. Perry may have some more BBall IQ but I just dont think he will have much input with Mills and Dolan around. (Have you seen him at pressers when Mills is around?)

Here is my point. Its 4 years later and we cant really say we have anyhting besides KP. Who is not exactly playing like a guy that you can build around. Yet all the ones that argued for the rebuild and Phil just cant admit it was a bad move, Phil was the wrong choice and that rebuilds are not as simple as they made it seem.

What will change my outlook is what takes place at trade deadline and in the off season. We need to sell at dead line and try to collect assets/draft picks. But then I want them to use those assets, not for another chance at winning the draft Lotto, but by adding a proven young piece. We have seen that all the hype surrounding draft picks is just that...hype.

Only time will tell but he did have Mills/Dolan hold off on a Melo deal (or maybe several iterations of them) until he found one he liked, OKC.

And then Jack, Beas, Sessions, Burke.

Go off of what you know and make an evaluation, not what you speculate and then have a pessimistic take on.

And BTW, IMHO KP is EXACTLY who you build around, or in the very least, start to build around.

I don't think Dolan cared weather melo stayed or left, his only input was, "I'm not buying him out" which is where him and phil had the fall out.

I don't think you can build around KP, but i do think he can be part of a big three. If he was a better rebounder ,passer and had more stamina, then i would say you can build around him.

ES
StarksEwing1
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2/5/2018  7:18 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
martin wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:I think some put too much stock in that 54 win team. yes it was nice but once we got the postseason we were pretty much smoked. Obviously the next season we came back to earth and that team was never gonna work. When it comes to Phil I never sugarcoat it he did sme really bonehead things(The noah signing, rose trade} being at the top of the list. But he also added some good young pieces. However it was clear he needed to go ASAP. I actually like Perry. I know some people recently have blamed him fir the Hardaway signing but he wasn't even here yet so he shouldn't get any blame. I think Timmy was doing well until the injury. Perry also did well in the Melo trade which was something that also needed desperately to be done. Going into this year I expected it to be a bumpy year anyway. However I think we do have good days ahead. We have all our draft picks which is nice for a change. As for The Willy situation I still think the media is trying to stir stuff up. yes I agree he is probably frustrated but I think its more likely KOQ is traded this week.

So far I cant say anything bad about Mills/Perry this year. Agree on job with Melo. Only thing maybe over paying for TImmy. (Like him and thought Phil gave up on him)

But here is my take on Mills/Perry. Mills is useless. He is selling this rebuild (yet again) only for the sake of keeping his position for another 5 years. He does not have the ability to put together contending team. He is only good at managing expectations. Perry may have some more BBall IQ but I just dont think he will have much input with Mills and Dolan around. (Have you seen him at pressers when Mills is around?)

Here is my point. Its 4 years later and we cant really say we have anyhting besides KP. Who is not exactly playing like a guy that you can build around. Yet all the ones that argued for the rebuild and Phil just cant admit it was a bad move, Phil was the wrong choice and that rebuilds are not as simple as they made it seem.

What will change my outlook is what takes place at trade deadline and in the off season. We need to sell at dead line and try to collect assets/draft picks. But then I want them to use those assets, not for another chance at winning the draft Lotto, but by adding a proven young piece. We have seen that all the hype surrounding draft picks is just that...hype.

Only time will tell but he did have Mills/Dolan hold off on a Melo deal (or maybe several iterations of them) until he found one he liked, OKC.

And then Jack, Beas, Sessions, Burke.

Go off of what you know and make an evaluation, not what you speculate and then have a pessimistic take on.

And BTW, IMHO KP is EXACTLY who you build around, or in the very least, start to build around.

I don't think Dolan cared weather melo stayed or left, his only input was, "I'm not buying him out" which is where him and phil had the fall out.

I don't think you can build around KP, but i do think he can be part of a big three. If he was a better rebounder ,passer and had more stamina, then i would say you can build around him.

Dont agree. You can definetly build around KP
knicks1248
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2/5/2018  7:23 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:We are younger and have a player or two. Better off for sure. Our star needs a serious sidekick.
I agree. Bondy wrote an article attacking the rebuild. Not much there but this from Jeff bothered me.
“The thought at the beginning of the year was Frank at some point would become (the starter),” Hornacek said. “But he’s still trying to grasp having to go out there every single night and play so I don’t know if we’re quite there.”

Is that a current quote?

JEFF is 100% right in that regards.

We don't have enough draft picks to say we are rebuilding, and nobody is giving up 1st rounders like they use to, unless it's attach to a potential all star,.

We have 3 players on this roster that will net us a 1st round pick in a trade..KP, Frank, and THJ. If you think teams are throwing first round picks for the likes of Kanter/willy/lane/KOQ/lee, you have drank too much of your own kool aid

ES
knicks1248
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2/5/2018  7:27 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
martin wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:I think some put too much stock in that 54 win team. yes it was nice but once we got the postseason we were pretty much smoked. Obviously the next season we came back to earth and that team was never gonna work. When it comes to Phil I never sugarcoat it he did sme really bonehead things(The noah signing, rose trade} being at the top of the list. But he also added some good young pieces. However it was clear he needed to go ASAP. I actually like Perry. I know some people recently have blamed him fir the Hardaway signing but he wasn't even here yet so he shouldn't get any blame. I think Timmy was doing well until the injury. Perry also did well in the Melo trade which was something that also needed desperately to be done. Going into this year I expected it to be a bumpy year anyway. However I think we do have good days ahead. We have all our draft picks which is nice for a change. As for The Willy situation I still think the media is trying to stir stuff up. yes I agree he is probably frustrated but I think its more likely KOQ is traded this week.

So far I cant say anything bad about Mills/Perry this year. Agree on job with Melo. Only thing maybe over paying for TImmy. (Like him and thought Phil gave up on him)

But here is my take on Mills/Perry. Mills is useless. He is selling this rebuild (yet again) only for the sake of keeping his position for another 5 years. He does not have the ability to put together contending team. He is only good at managing expectations. Perry may have some more BBall IQ but I just dont think he will have much input with Mills and Dolan around. (Have you seen him at pressers when Mills is around?)

Here is my point. Its 4 years later and we cant really say we have anyhting besides KP. Who is not exactly playing like a guy that you can build around. Yet all the ones that argued for the rebuild and Phil just cant admit it was a bad move, Phil was the wrong choice and that rebuilds are not as simple as they made it seem.

What will change my outlook is what takes place at trade deadline and in the off season. We need to sell at dead line and try to collect assets/draft picks. But then I want them to use those assets, not for another chance at winning the draft Lotto, but by adding a proven young piece. We have seen that all the hype surrounding draft picks is just that...hype.

Only time will tell but he did have Mills/Dolan hold off on a Melo deal (or maybe several iterations of them) until he found one he liked, OKC.

And then Jack, Beas, Sessions, Burke.

Go off of what you know and make an evaluation, not what you speculate and then have a pessimistic take on.

And BTW, IMHO KP is EXACTLY who you build around, or in the very least, start to build around.

I don't think Dolan cared weather melo stayed or left, his only input was, "I'm not buying him out" which is where him and phil had the fall out.

I don't think you can build around KP, but i do think he can be part of a big three. If he was a better rebounder ,passer and had more stamina, then i would say you can build around him.

Dont agree. You can definetly build around KP

What gives you that impression?

In fact I have one question that will tell me what i need to know about you

who do you start building your team with Ewing or KP?

ES
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2/5/2018  11:13 PM
I think our future is bright.
jrodmc
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2/6/2018  10:01 AM
We are minus 60 million and + one tired Unicorn
-Bargs +Noah
-Melo +THJr (Kanter is a double double with no D and McBuckets is a really nice cup of coffee)
-Rose +Frankie; we win that one.
Hope is a good thing. And nothing good ever dies, but it just may not make the playoffs.
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2/6/2018  10:22 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:I think some put too much stock in that 54 win team. yes it was nice but once we got the postseason we were pretty much smoked. Obviously the next season we came back to earth and that team was never gonna work. When it comes to Phil I never sugarcoat it he did sme really bonehead things(The noah signing, rose trade} being at the top of the list. But he also added some good young pieces. However it was clear he needed to go ASAP. I actually like Perry. I know some people recently have blamed him fir the Hardaway signing but he wasn't even here yet so he shouldn't get any blame. I think Timmy was doing well until the injury. Perry also did well in the Melo trade which was something that also needed desperately to be done. Going into this year I expected it to be a bumpy year anyway. However I think we do have good days ahead. We have all our draft picks which is nice for a change. As for The Willy situation I still think the media is trying to stir stuff up. yes I agree he is probably frustrated but I think its more likely KOQ is traded this week.

So far I cant say anything bad about Mills/Perry this year. Agree on job with Melo. Only thing maybe over paying for TImmy. (Like him and thought Phil gave up on him)

But here is my take on Mills/Perry. Mills is useless. He is selling this rebuild (yet again) only for the sake of keeping his position for another 5 years. He does not have the ability to put together contending team. He is only good at managing expectations. Perry may have some more BBall IQ but I just dont think he will have much input with Mills and Dolan around. (Have you seen him at pressers when Mills is around?)

Here is my point. Its 4 years later and we cant really say we have anyhting besides KP. Who is not exactly playing like a guy that you can build around. What will change my outlook is what takes place at trade deadline and in the off season. We need to sell at dead line and try to collect assets/draft picks. But then I want them to use those assets, not for another chance at winning the draft Lotto, but by adding a proven young piece. We have seen that all the hype surrounding draft picks is just that...hype.

Thats fair. I agree about Mills(he isnt a bball guy) When it coes to KP its important to remmeber that he is still very very young and each year he has taken a positive step forward...it just cant happen overnight. As for draft pciks i admit ive always been big on draft picks. maybe its because for 15 yaers we traded all our draft pciks for crap and actually got worse. Yes i agree not all draft pciks work out but i still feel its important to have especially in a salary cap world. Im not trying to paint a rosey pickture its defefinetly frustarting right now. However im glad they arent panicksing making a classic bad knick trade like we did for many years. This is defnetly a team that is gonna take some time

Cant tell why KP has not cntinued the progression he seemed to be on headed early on. Would hate to think its his team and business side who seems to be focused on only scoring. It's also the coaching staff that needs to emphasixe how to elevate his passing game to what the high level players are doing. But agree, he is young. Also, agree about the need to add draft picks. Just want to use them for a young proven player on the cusp. But agree, definately not on some big name over hill All Star.

I never understand these types of posts. Only scoring? The guy has become an elite defensive player. Leading the leagues in blocks per game and defensive FG% at the rim. No longer getting beat on the perimeter, even though logic says he shouldn't be guarding 3pt shooters. His defense has been far more impressive than his offense. This isn't Melo we are talking about. Porzingis plays both sides of the ball well.

Knixkik
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2/6/2018  10:25 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
martin wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:I think some put too much stock in that 54 win team. yes it was nice but once we got the postseason we were pretty much smoked. Obviously the next season we came back to earth and that team was never gonna work. When it comes to Phil I never sugarcoat it he did sme really bonehead things(The noah signing, rose trade} being at the top of the list. But he also added some good young pieces. However it was clear he needed to go ASAP. I actually like Perry. I know some people recently have blamed him fir the Hardaway signing but he wasn't even here yet so he shouldn't get any blame. I think Timmy was doing well until the injury. Perry also did well in the Melo trade which was something that also needed desperately to be done. Going into this year I expected it to be a bumpy year anyway. However I think we do have good days ahead. We have all our draft picks which is nice for a change. As for The Willy situation I still think the media is trying to stir stuff up. yes I agree he is probably frustrated but I think its more likely KOQ is traded this week.

So far I cant say anything bad about Mills/Perry this year. Agree on job with Melo. Only thing maybe over paying for TImmy. (Like him and thought Phil gave up on him)

But here is my take on Mills/Perry. Mills is useless. He is selling this rebuild (yet again) only for the sake of keeping his position for another 5 years. He does not have the ability to put together contending team. He is only good at managing expectations. Perry may have some more BBall IQ but I just dont think he will have much input with Mills and Dolan around. (Have you seen him at pressers when Mills is around?)

Here is my point. Its 4 years later and we cant really say we have anyhting besides KP. Who is not exactly playing like a guy that you can build around. Yet all the ones that argued for the rebuild and Phil just cant admit it was a bad move, Phil was the wrong choice and that rebuilds are not as simple as they made it seem.

What will change my outlook is what takes place at trade deadline and in the off season. We need to sell at dead line and try to collect assets/draft picks. But then I want them to use those assets, not for another chance at winning the draft Lotto, but by adding a proven young piece. We have seen that all the hype surrounding draft picks is just that...hype.

Only time will tell but he did have Mills/Dolan hold off on a Melo deal (or maybe several iterations of them) until he found one he liked, OKC.

And then Jack, Beas, Sessions, Burke.

Go off of what you know and make an evaluation, not what you speculate and then have a pessimistic take on.

And BTW, IMHO KP is EXACTLY who you build around, or in the very least, start to build around.

I don't think Dolan cared weather melo stayed or left, his only input was, "I'm not buying him out" which is where him and phil had the fall out.

I don't think you can build around KP, but i do think he can be part of a big three. If he was a better rebounder ,passer and had more stamina, then i would say you can build around him.

Dont agree. You can definetly build around KP

What gives you that impression?

In fact I have one question that will tell me what i need to know about you

who do you start building your team with Ewing or KP?

2 players from different eras. I would start a franchise with either one. Both play on both sides of the ball. Building around Porzingis doesn't mean he has to be the #1 scorer. If you have a guy like Irving or Booker for example, you are still building around Porzingis, because he has the ability to be an elite scorer but also an anchor on defense, unlike the other guy.

arkrud
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2/6/2018  10:34 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/6/2018  10:35 AM
Knixkik wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:I think some put too much stock in that 54 win team. yes it was nice but once we got the postseason we were pretty much smoked. Obviously the next season we came back to earth and that team was never gonna work. When it comes to Phil I never sugarcoat it he did sme really bonehead things(The noah signing, rose trade} being at the top of the list. But he also added some good young pieces. However it was clear he needed to go ASAP. I actually like Perry. I know some people recently have blamed him fir the Hardaway signing but he wasn't even here yet so he shouldn't get any blame. I think Timmy was doing well until the injury. Perry also did well in the Melo trade which was something that also needed desperately to be done. Going into this year I expected it to be a bumpy year anyway. However I think we do have good days ahead. We have all our draft picks which is nice for a change. As for The Willy situation I still think the media is trying to stir stuff up. yes I agree he is probably frustrated but I think its more likely KOQ is traded this week.

So far I cant say anything bad about Mills/Perry this year. Agree on job with Melo. Only thing maybe over paying for TImmy. (Like him and thought Phil gave up on him)

But here is my take on Mills/Perry. Mills is useless. He is selling this rebuild (yet again) only for the sake of keeping his position for another 5 years. He does not have the ability to put together contending team. He is only good at managing expectations. Perry may have some more BBall IQ but I just dont think he will have much input with Mills and Dolan around. (Have you seen him at pressers when Mills is around?)

Here is my point. Its 4 years later and we cant really say we have anyhting besides KP. Who is not exactly playing like a guy that you can build around. What will change my outlook is what takes place at trade deadline and in the off season. We need to sell at dead line and try to collect assets/draft picks. But then I want them to use those assets, not for another chance at winning the draft Lotto, but by adding a proven young piece. We have seen that all the hype surrounding draft picks is just that...hype.

Thats fair. I agree about Mills(he isnt a bball guy) When it coes to KP its important to remmeber that he is still very very young and each year he has taken a positive step forward...it just cant happen overnight. As for draft pciks i admit ive always been big on draft picks. maybe its because for 15 yaers we traded all our draft pciks for crap and actually got worse. Yes i agree not all draft pciks work out but i still feel its important to have especially in a salary cap world. Im not trying to paint a rosey pickture its defefinetly frustarting right now. However im glad they arent panicksing making a classic bad knick trade like we did for many years. This is defnetly a team that is gonna take some time

Cant tell why KP has not cntinued the progression he seemed to be on headed early on. Would hate to think its his team and business side who seems to be focused on only scoring. It's also the coaching staff that needs to emphasixe how to elevate his passing game to what the high level players are doing. But agree, he is young. Also, agree about the need to add draft picks. Just want to use them for a young proven player on the cusp. But agree, definately not on some big name over hill All Star.

I never understand these types of posts. Only scoring? The guy has become an elite defensive player. Leading the leagues in blocks per game and defensive FG% at the rim. No longer getting beat on the perimeter, even though logic says he shouldn't be guarding 3pt shooters. His defense has been far more impressive than his offense. This isn't Melo we are talking about. Porzingis plays both sides of the ball well.

Defense is the first thing needed for the team building blocks.
KP is superstar on defense already. There is pretty much consensus on this around the NBA players and coaches alike.
His offense is decent and potential is unlimited.
His play-making and rebounding are still rudimentary and both he will need to work on.
At 22 player have to have a lot of things to work on.
If how KP was developing his game in NBA will continue he will get better in this areas.
Especially if he will not have one of the best rebounded in NBA in Kanter and overall good re-bounders around him.
Also his assists will improve if we will get players around him who can finish the play.
His assist to TJR on dissallowed basket was great and we start seeing him passing out of doubles and moving the ball when he is not set more and more.
His physicality improved and will continue to improve naturally with age.
So I cannot see any issues with KP.

He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
Knixkik
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2/6/2018  11:07 AM
arkrud wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:I think some put too much stock in that 54 win team. yes it was nice but once we got the postseason we were pretty much smoked. Obviously the next season we came back to earth and that team was never gonna work. When it comes to Phil I never sugarcoat it he did sme really bonehead things(The noah signing, rose trade} being at the top of the list. But he also added some good young pieces. However it was clear he needed to go ASAP. I actually like Perry. I know some people recently have blamed him fir the Hardaway signing but he wasn't even here yet so he shouldn't get any blame. I think Timmy was doing well until the injury. Perry also did well in the Melo trade which was something that also needed desperately to be done. Going into this year I expected it to be a bumpy year anyway. However I think we do have good days ahead. We have all our draft picks which is nice for a change. As for The Willy situation I still think the media is trying to stir stuff up. yes I agree he is probably frustrated but I think its more likely KOQ is traded this week.

So far I cant say anything bad about Mills/Perry this year. Agree on job with Melo. Only thing maybe over paying for TImmy. (Like him and thought Phil gave up on him)

But here is my take on Mills/Perry. Mills is useless. He is selling this rebuild (yet again) only for the sake of keeping his position for another 5 years. He does not have the ability to put together contending team. He is only good at managing expectations. Perry may have some more BBall IQ but I just dont think he will have much input with Mills and Dolan around. (Have you seen him at pressers when Mills is around?)

Here is my point. Its 4 years later and we cant really say we have anyhting besides KP. Who is not exactly playing like a guy that you can build around. What will change my outlook is what takes place at trade deadline and in the off season. We need to sell at dead line and try to collect assets/draft picks. But then I want them to use those assets, not for another chance at winning the draft Lotto, but by adding a proven young piece. We have seen that all the hype surrounding draft picks is just that...hype.

Thats fair. I agree about Mills(he isnt a bball guy) When it coes to KP its important to remmeber that he is still very very young and each year he has taken a positive step forward...it just cant happen overnight. As for draft pciks i admit ive always been big on draft picks. maybe its because for 15 yaers we traded all our draft pciks for crap and actually got worse. Yes i agree not all draft pciks work out but i still feel its important to have especially in a salary cap world. Im not trying to paint a rosey pickture its defefinetly frustarting right now. However im glad they arent panicksing making a classic bad knick trade like we did for many years. This is defnetly a team that is gonna take some time

Cant tell why KP has not cntinued the progression he seemed to be on headed early on. Would hate to think its his team and business side who seems to be focused on only scoring. It's also the coaching staff that needs to emphasixe how to elevate his passing game to what the high level players are doing. But agree, he is young. Also, agree about the need to add draft picks. Just want to use them for a young proven player on the cusp. But agree, definately not on some big name over hill All Star.

I never understand these types of posts. Only scoring? The guy has become an elite defensive player. Leading the leagues in blocks per game and defensive FG% at the rim. No longer getting beat on the perimeter, even though logic says he shouldn't be guarding 3pt shooters. His defense has been far more impressive than his offense. This isn't Melo we are talking about. Porzingis plays both sides of the ball well.

Defense is the first thing needed for the team building blocks.
KP is superstar on defense already. There is pretty much consensus on this around the NBA players and coaches alike.
His offense is decent and potential is unlimited.
His play-making and rebounding are still rudimentary and both he will need to work on.
At 22 player have to have a lot of things to work on.
If how KP was developing his game in NBA will continue he will get better in this areas.
Especially if he will not have one of the best rebounded in NBA in Kanter and overall good re-bounders around him.
Also his assists will improve if we will get players around him who can finish the play.
His assist to TJR on dissallowed basket was great and we start seeing him passing out of doubles and moving the ball when he is not set more and more.
His physicality improved and will continue to improve naturally with age.
So I cannot see any issues with KP.

I expect him to become a DPOY candidate regularly. Even if he never becomes a super-efficient scorer or elite rebounder, just the fact that he is a great defensive player and can take over games on offense from time to time make him a player worthy of building around.

NardDogNation
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2/6/2018  11:16 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/6/2018  11:19 AM
Where are we since the reboot?

Answer: No Man's Land

The Knicks know the right things to say but never follow through on it because it was never their intention. They are like Corporate Democrats.

The "we need to get younger, longer, more athletic, etc" line was been remixed by every GM since Dolan and all we've done instead is acquire overpriced and marginal veterans/reclaimation projects in a veiled attempt to win meaningless games (see Derrick Rose, Andrea Bargnani, Jerome James, Vin Baker, Dikembe Mutombo, Mark Jackson, Tracy McGrady etc.). All the Knicks really care about is building narrative to keep the interest and revenue sales up; not in the grim that comes with building a contender from the ground up. And now that we've got a household name (KP- who we accidently stumbled into) to market, expect for them to make the same dumbassed short-term, future killing moves that have epitomized the Dolan era.

This is feeling like another "I told ya so" situation for me and I hate being right when it comes to this team. But nothing is going to change until people stop drinking the Kool-Aid and realize what is really up with this franchise. They don't give a damn because they know they'll turn a dollar no matter what garbage they trot out on the floor.

Nalod
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2/6/2018  11:17 AM
Thread is common when losing prevails. Question everything.
That's OK, but the pressure to change while losing is no doubt real but to deviate from a plan is reactionary.
"But, its not working!".........
A good plan factors in ebbs and flows.
Yesterday a lot of people sold the stock market. If your long term goal oriented you see it as an opportunity. If your not, you freak out and sell.
"Sell on strength" is an old wise saying for when you take profits. Good teams let players walk, trade players for younger ones/picks and prolong the flow of assets coming in.
Knicks for years did the opposite. It was called "Starphuching".
Rant, rave and freak out when its not working but facts are nothing matters yesterday and it should not weigh on decisions going forward. Knicks suck. Mills is 10 years wiser and in his reincarnation is not driving the knicks as it was during the Isiah years. I think Mills was MSG president, not knicks president. Isiah was president. That said, we appear to not be making the same decision process as we did for many years.
Can we answer for Phil and "the reboot"? Well, in many ways the right decisions were made, some mistakes along the way and the results not as hoped.
Makes for good media fodder. Most losing streaks create articles to fuel the anger. Im a fan, I am angry! But when you right down your goals every day you stay focused on the long term.
Question is when do you revisit the strategy? Its a good question.
Trade deadline is fun for fans to speculate but its very important the team stay on task. Bad trades are made when losing persists. What ever the parameters are and maybe its "Stay young, stay with youth, unless we are overwhelmed by an offer we can't refuse!" I would not expect much come trade deadline. I would not take back money and given the surplus of bigs I don't see a great market for KOQ. Andrew Bogut can be had for free. KOQ likely a low 2nd rounder? I don't know.
Lamenting about Willy? Read an article "should have traded him in the summer when his value was high!!". That's like saying should have sold a stock before it dropped! Stupid. What happened with willy? Melo trade returned Kanter and Willy after a good year and some good run with the Spanish national team came in full of himself and perhaps did not improve enough to stay on pace. Blame Coach? His job is to coach the best players. Blame Perry? He came late and he got decent value for Melo. Blame circumstances, this shyt happens.
"he wants out"! I read his agent backed down and said "he wants to play or an opportunity to play". While he might be a project, he does not want to get traded and sit elsewhere either! Whats his value? Late 1st rounder? Second rounder? No guarantee we get a better player there. We own his ass for two more seasons. Let him go play with Dirk, watch McHale tapes, or borrow some money and pay Hakeem to team him in the off season. Whining does not get play time, hard work does.
As for Noah, there is no problem here. Its a tough thing to have that salary and still want to play. I feel for the guy. He wants to play. Not enough to do a payout. he could be bought out at a big discount and go play elsewhere. He could be on the Cav's in 10 minutes. Obviously its a big number and its hard to ignore that kind of cash. Without a big discount knicks have no incentive to buy him out. Personally I like the guy. Kanter or KOQ has been injured enough to create time. Even if so, willy should get time too.
I'd just as soon release KOQ if we can't trade him (assuming we are tanked) and let willy play. Even if Noah played well his injury history with that contract makes him untradeable.
He sits. Money matters.
Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
Where are we since Dolan brought in Jackson for complete reboot?

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