StarksEwing1 wrote:I think some put too much stock in that 54 win team. yes it was nice but once we got the postseason we were pretty much smoked. Obviously the next season we came back to earth and that team was never gonna work. When it comes to Phil I never sugarcoat it he did sme really bonehead things(The noah signing, rose trade} being at the top of the list. But he also added some good young pieces. However it was clear he needed to go ASAP. I actually like Perry. I know some people recently have blamed him fir the Hardaway signing but he wasn't even here yet so he shouldn't get any blame. I think Timmy was doing well until the injury. Perry also did well in the Melo trade which was something that also needed desperately to be done. Going into this year I expected it to be a bumpy year anyway. However I think we do have good days ahead. We have all our draft picks which is nice for a change. As for The Willy situation I still think the media is trying to stir stuff up. yes I agree he is probably frustrated but I think its more likely KOQ is traded this week.

So far I cant say anything bad about Mills/Perry this year. Agree on job with Melo. Only thing maybe over paying for TImmy. (Like him and thought Phil gave up on him)

But here is my take on Mills/Perry. Mills is useless. He is selling this rebuild (yet again) only for the sake of keeping his position for another 5 years. He does not have the ability to put together contending team. He is only good at managing expectations. Perry may have some more BBall IQ but I just dont think he will have much input with Mills and Dolan around. (Have you seen him at pressers when Mills is around?)

Here is my point. Its 4 years later and we cant really say we have anyhting besides KP. Who is not exactly playing like a guy that you can build around. Yet all the ones that argued for the rebuild and Phil just cant admit it was a bad move, Phil was the wrong choice and that rebuilds are not as simple as they made it seem.

What will change my outlook is what takes place at trade deadline and in the off season. We need to sell at dead line and try to collect assets/draft picks. But then I want them to use those assets, not for another chance at winning the draft Lotto, but by adding a proven young piece. We have seen that all the hype surrounding draft picks is just that...hype.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I think some put too much stock in that 54 win team. yes it was nice but once we got the postseason we were pretty much smoked. Obviously the next season we came back to earth and that team was never gonna work. When it comes to Phil I never sugarcoat it he did sme really bonehead things(The noah signing, rose trade} being at the top of the list. But he also added some good young pieces. However it was clear he needed to go ASAP. I actually like Perry. I know some people recently have blamed him fir the Hardaway signing but he wasn't even here yet so he shouldn't get any blame. I think Timmy was doing well until the injury. Perry also did well in the Melo trade which was something that also needed desperately to be done. Going into this year I expected it to be a bumpy year anyway. However I think we do have good days ahead. We have all our draft picks which is nice for a change. As for The Willy situation I still think the media is trying to stir stuff up. yes I agree he is probably frustrated but I think its more likely KOQ is traded this week.

So far I cant say anything bad about Mills/Perry this year. Agree on job with Melo. Only thing maybe over paying for TImmy. (Like him and thought Phil gave up on him)

But here is my take on Mills/Perry. Mills is useless. He is selling this rebuild (yet again) only for the sake of keeping his position for another 5 years. He does not have the ability to put together contending team. He is only good at managing expectations. Perry may have some more BBall IQ but I just dont think he will have much input with Mills and Dolan around. (Have you seen him at pressers when Mills is around?)

Here is my point. Its 4 years later and we cant really say we have anyhting besides KP. Who is not exactly playing like a guy that you can build around. What will change my outlook is what takes place at trade deadline and in the off season. We need to sell at dead line and try to collect assets/draft picks. But then I want them to use those assets, not for another chance at winning the draft Lotto, but by adding a proven young piece. We have seen that all the hype surrounding draft picks is just that...hype.

Thats fair. I agree about Mills(he isnt a bball guy) When it coes to KP its important to remmeber that he is still very very young and each year he has taken a positive step forward...it just cant happen overnight. As for draft pciks i admit ive always been big on draft picks. maybe its because for 15 yaers we traded all our draft pciks for crap and actually got worse. Yes i agree not all draft pciks work out but i still feel its important to have especially in a salary cap world. Im not trying to paint a rosey pickture its defefinetly frustarting right now. However im glad they arent panicksing making a classic bad knick trade like we did for many years. This is defnetly a team that is gonna take some time

Cant tell why KP has not cntinued the progression he seemed to be on headed early on. Would hate to think its his team and business side who seems to be focused on only scoring. It's also the coaching staff that needs to emphasixe how to elevate his passing game to what the high level players are doing. But agree, he is young. Also, agree about the need to add draft picks. Just want to use them for a young proven player on the cusp. But agree, definately not on some big name over hill All Star.

HofstraBBall wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I think some put too much stock in that 54 win team. yes it was nice but once we got the postseason we were pretty much smoked. Obviously the next season we came back to earth and that team was never gonna work. When it comes to Phil I never sugarcoat it he did sme really bonehead things(The noah signing, rose trade} being at the top of the list. But he also added some good young pieces. However it was clear he needed to go ASAP. I actually like Perry. I know some people recently have blamed him fir the Hardaway signing but he wasn't even here yet so he shouldn't get any blame. I think Timmy was doing well until the injury. Perry also did well in the Melo trade which was something that also needed desperately to be done. Going into this year I expected it to be a bumpy year anyway. However I think we do have good days ahead. We have all our draft picks which is nice for a change. As for The Willy situation I still think the media is trying to stir stuff up. yes I agree he is probably frustrated but I think its more likely KOQ is traded this week.

So far I cant say anything bad about Mills/Perry this year. Agree on job with Melo. Only thing maybe over paying for TImmy. (Like him and thought Phil gave up on him)

But here is my take on Mills/Perry. Mills is useless. He is selling this rebuild (yet again) only for the sake of keeping his position for another 5 years. He does not have the ability to put together contending team. He is only good at managing expectations. Perry may have some more BBall IQ but I just dont think he will have much input with Mills and Dolan around. (Have you seen him at pressers when Mills is around?)

Here is my point. Its 4 years later and we cant really say we have anyhting besides KP. Who is not exactly playing like a guy that you can build around. Yet all the ones that argued for the rebuild and Phil just cant admit it was a bad move, Phil was the wrong choice and that rebuilds are not as simple as they made it seem.

What will change my outlook is what takes place at trade deadline and in the off season. We need to sell at dead line and try to collect assets/draft picks. But then I want them to use those assets, not for another chance at winning the draft Lotto, but by adding a proven young piece. We have seen that all the hype surrounding draft picks is just that...hype.

Only time will tell but he did have Mills/Dolan hold off on a Melo deal (or maybe several iterations of them) until he found one he liked, OKC.

And then Jack, Beas, Sessions, Burke.

Go off of what you know and make an evaluation, not what you speculate and then have a pessimistic take on.

And BTW, IMHO KP is EXACTLY who you build around, or in the very least, start to build around.

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I think some put too much stock in that 54 win team. yes it was nice but once we got the postseason we were pretty much smoked. Obviously the next season we came back to earth and that team was never gonna work. When it comes to Phil I never sugarcoat it he did sme really bonehead things(The noah signing, rose trade} being at the top of the list. But he also added some good young pieces. However it was clear he needed to go ASAP. I actually like Perry. I know some people recently have blamed him fir the Hardaway signing but he wasn't even here yet so he shouldn't get any blame. I think Timmy was doing well until the injury. Perry also did well in the Melo trade which was something that also needed desperately to be done. Going into this year I expected it to be a bumpy year anyway. However I think we do have good days ahead. We have all our draft picks which is nice for a change. As for The Willy situation I still think the media is trying to stir stuff up. yes I agree he is probably frustrated but I think its more likely KOQ is traded this week.

So far I cant say anything bad about Mills/Perry this year. Agree on job with Melo. Only thing maybe over paying for TImmy. (Like him and thought Phil gave up on him)

But here is my take on Mills/Perry. Mills is useless. He is selling this rebuild (yet again) only for the sake of keeping his position for another 5 years. He does not have the ability to put together contending team. He is only good at managing expectations. Perry may have some more BBall IQ but I just dont think he will have much input with Mills and Dolan around. (Have you seen him at pressers when Mills is around?)

Here is my point. Its 4 years later and we cant really say we have anyhting besides KP. Who is not exactly playing like a guy that you can build around. Yet all the ones that argued for the rebuild and Phil just cant admit it was a bad move, Phil was the wrong choice and that rebuilds are not as simple as they made it seem.

What will change my outlook is what takes place at trade deadline and in the off season. We need to sell at dead line and try to collect assets/draft picks. But then I want them to use those assets, not for another chance at winning the draft Lotto, but by adding a proven young piece. We have seen that all the hype surrounding draft picks is just that...hype.

Only time will tell but he did have Mills/Dolan hold off on a Melo deal (or maybe several iterations of them) until he found one he liked, OKC.

And then Jack, Beas, Sessions, Burke.

Go off of what you know and make an evaluation, not what you speculate and then have a pessimistic take on.

And BTW, IMHO KP is EXACTLY who you build around, or in the very least, start to build around.

I don't think Dolan cared weather melo stayed or left, his only input was, "I'm not buying him out" which is where him and phil had the fall out.

I don't think you can build around KP, but i do think he can be part of a big three. If he was a better rebounder ,passer and had more stamina, then i would say you can build around him.

CrushAlot wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:We are younger and have a player or two. Better off for sure. Our star needs a serious sidekick.

I agree. Bondy wrote an article attacking the rebuild. Not much there but this from Jeff bothered me.

“The thought at the beginning of the year was Frank at some point would become (the starter),” Hornacek said. “But he’s still trying to grasp having to go out there every single night and play so I don’t know if we’re quite there.”

Is that a current quote?

JEFF is 100% right in that regards.

We don't have enough draft picks to say we are rebuilding, and nobody is giving up 1st rounders like they use to, unless it's attach to a potential all star,.

We have 3 players on this roster that will net us a 1st round pick in a trade..KP, Frank, and THJ. If you think teams are throwing first round picks for the likes of Kanter/willy/lane/KOQ/lee, you have drank too much of your own kool aid

HofstraBBall wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I think some put too much stock in that 54 win team. yes it was nice but once we got the postseason we were pretty much smoked. Obviously the next season we came back to earth and that team was never gonna work. When it comes to Phil I never sugarcoat it he did sme really bonehead things(The noah signing, rose trade} being at the top of the list. But he also added some good young pieces. However it was clear he needed to go ASAP. I actually like Perry. I know some people recently have blamed him fir the Hardaway signing but he wasn't even here yet so he shouldn't get any blame. I think Timmy was doing well until the injury. Perry also did well in the Melo trade which was something that also needed desperately to be done. Going into this year I expected it to be a bumpy year anyway. However I think we do have good days ahead. We have all our draft picks which is nice for a change. As for The Willy situation I still think the media is trying to stir stuff up. yes I agree he is probably frustrated but I think its more likely KOQ is traded this week.

So far I cant say anything bad about Mills/Perry this year. Agree on job with Melo. Only thing maybe over paying for TImmy. (Like him and thought Phil gave up on him)

But here is my take on Mills/Perry. Mills is useless. He is selling this rebuild (yet again) only for the sake of keeping his position for another 5 years. He does not have the ability to put together contending team. He is only good at managing expectations. Perry may have some more BBall IQ but I just dont think he will have much input with Mills and Dolan around. (Have you seen him at pressers when Mills is around?)

Here is my point. Its 4 years later and we cant really say we have anyhting besides KP. Who is not exactly playing like a guy that you can build around. What will change my outlook is what takes place at trade deadline and in the off season. We need to sell at dead line and try to collect assets/draft picks. But then I want them to use those assets, not for another chance at winning the draft Lotto, but by adding a proven young piece. We have seen that all the hype surrounding draft picks is just that...hype.

Thats fair. I agree about Mills(he isnt a bball guy) When it coes to KP its important to remmeber that he is still very very young and each year he has taken a positive step forward...it just cant happen overnight. As for draft pciks i admit ive always been big on draft picks. maybe its because for 15 yaers we traded all our draft pciks for crap and actually got worse. Yes i agree not all draft pciks work out but i still feel its important to have especially in a salary cap world. Im not trying to paint a rosey pickture its defefinetly frustarting right now. However im glad they arent panicksing making a classic bad knick trade like we did for many years. This is defnetly a team that is gonna take some time

Cant tell why KP has not cntinued the progression he seemed to be on headed early on. Would hate to think its his team and business side who seems to be focused on only scoring. It's also the coaching staff that needs to emphasixe how to elevate his passing game to what the high level players are doing. But agree, he is young. Also, agree about the need to add draft picks. Just want to use them for a young proven player on the cusp. But agree, definately not on some big name over hill All Star.

I never understand these types of posts. Only scoring? The guy has become an elite defensive player. Leading the leagues in blocks per game and defensive FG% at the rim. No longer getting beat on the perimeter, even though logic says he shouldn't be guarding 3pt shooters. His defense has been far more impressive than his offense. This isn't Melo we are talking about. Porzingis plays both sides of the ball well.

Knixkik wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I think some put too much stock in that 54 win team. yes it was nice but once we got the postseason we were pretty much smoked. Obviously the next season we came back to earth and that team was never gonna work. When it comes to Phil I never sugarcoat it he did sme really bonehead things(The noah signing, rose trade} being at the top of the list. But he also added some good young pieces. However it was clear he needed to go ASAP. I actually like Perry. I know some people recently have blamed him fir the Hardaway signing but he wasn't even here yet so he shouldn't get any blame. I think Timmy was doing well until the injury. Perry also did well in the Melo trade which was something that also needed desperately to be done. Going into this year I expected it to be a bumpy year anyway. However I think we do have good days ahead. We have all our draft picks which is nice for a change. As for The Willy situation I still think the media is trying to stir stuff up. yes I agree he is probably frustrated but I think its more likely KOQ is traded this week.

So far I cant say anything bad about Mills/Perry this year. Agree on job with Melo. Only thing maybe over paying for TImmy. (Like him and thought Phil gave up on him)

But here is my take on Mills/Perry. Mills is useless. He is selling this rebuild (yet again) only for the sake of keeping his position for another 5 years. He does not have the ability to put together contending team. He is only good at managing expectations. Perry may have some more BBall IQ but I just dont think he will have much input with Mills and Dolan around. (Have you seen him at pressers when Mills is around?)

Here is my point. Its 4 years later and we cant really say we have anyhting besides KP. Who is not exactly playing like a guy that you can build around. What will change my outlook is what takes place at trade deadline and in the off season. We need to sell at dead line and try to collect assets/draft picks. But then I want them to use those assets, not for another chance at winning the draft Lotto, but by adding a proven young piece. We have seen that all the hype surrounding draft picks is just that...hype.

Thats fair. I agree about Mills(he isnt a bball guy) When it coes to KP its important to remmeber that he is still very very young and each year he has taken a positive step forward...it just cant happen overnight. As for draft pciks i admit ive always been big on draft picks. maybe its because for 15 yaers we traded all our draft pciks for crap and actually got worse. Yes i agree not all draft pciks work out but i still feel its important to have especially in a salary cap world. Im not trying to paint a rosey pickture its defefinetly frustarting right now. However im glad they arent panicksing making a classic bad knick trade like we did for many years. This is defnetly a team that is gonna take some time

Cant tell why KP has not cntinued the progression he seemed to be on headed early on. Would hate to think its his team and business side who seems to be focused on only scoring. It's also the coaching staff that needs to emphasixe how to elevate his passing game to what the high level players are doing. But agree, he is young. Also, agree about the need to add draft picks. Just want to use them for a young proven player on the cusp. But agree, definately not on some big name over hill All Star.

I never understand these types of posts. Only scoring? The guy has become an elite defensive player. Leading the leagues in blocks per game and defensive FG% at the rim. No longer getting beat on the perimeter, even though logic says he shouldn't be guarding 3pt shooters. His defense has been far more impressive than his offense. This isn't Melo we are talking about. Porzingis plays both sides of the ball well.

Defense is the first thing needed for the team building blocks.
KP is superstar on defense already. There is pretty much consensus on this around the NBA players and coaches alike.
His offense is decent and potential is unlimited.
His play-making and rebounding are still rudimentary and both he will need to work on.
At 22 player have to have a lot of things to work on.
If how KP was developing his game in NBA will continue he will get better in this areas.
Especially if he will not have one of the best rebounded in NBA in Kanter and overall good re-bounders around him.
Also his assists will improve if we will get players around him who can finish the play.
His assist to TJR on dissallowed basket was great and we start seeing him passing out of doubles and moving the ball when he is not set more and more.
His physicality improved and will continue to improve naturally with age.
So I cannot see any issues with KP.

Answer: No Man's Land

The Knicks know the right things to say but never follow through on it because it was never their intention. They are like Corporate Democrats.

The "we need to get younger, longer, more athletic, etc" line was been remixed by every GM since Dolan and all we've done instead is acquire overpriced and marginal veterans/reclaimation projects in a veiled attempt to win meaningless games (see Derrick Rose, Andrea Bargnani, Jerome James, Vin Baker, Dikembe Mutombo, Mark Jackson, Tracy McGrady etc.). All the Knicks really care about is building narrative to keep the interest and revenue sales up; not in the grim that comes with building a contender from the ground up. And now that we've got a household name (KP- who we accidently stumbled into) to market, expect for them to make the same dumbassed short-term, future killing moves that have epitomized the Dolan era.

This is feeling like another "I told ya so" situation for me and I hate being right when it comes to this team. But nothing is going to change until people stop drinking the Kool-Aid and realize what is really up with this franchise. They don't give a damn because they know they'll turn a dollar no matter what garbage they trot out on the floor.