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Teams needs shooting brains and athletic role players in that order
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BRIGGS
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2/5/2018  12:19 PM
The first two points are close--this is a STUPID basketball team. No offense to the players. We NEED two POINT GUARDS who are smart and can play NOW. Frank can be third or fourth guy --or even a combo guard.

WE are 30th in 3 pointers made. Our best shooter is shooting 31% from 3. We need more 3 point shooters and more importantly--more EFFICIENT shooters

We need some athletic role players. Im not overly concerned about length and athleticism but you need it--it would be awesome to get a package of what I said above with elite athleticism but there is simply not much of it.

Ive watched college basketball all year--discounting the top 7 there are 10-15 guys who can help us--not much more than that.

The two names that to me after full year long evaluation are Gary Trent SG out of Duke and PG Jalen Brunson out of Villanova. These names are also within REALISTIC expectation as they are both projected to go around our picks. Unless there is a reach from that projection--our GMs should target these two--STAY away from players who are not physically developed in game and body.

Jalen Brunson runs an offense that is the best in college basketball and rarely ever makes a bad or dumb play. He has a great stroke and is an under rated dribble drive player.He has great bloodlines great character and great basketball acumen. It will LIKELY cost us a future restricted 1 and a 2 to move up to get him(or perhaps tired to Willy and a restricted pick) but its within our reason/ wheelhouse to get a deal done

I believe IF we keep losing that we may be able to simply find Gary Trent at our spot. No thinking about it--no 19 year olds from Yugoslovia--take Trent.

There are good athletic role players that might be on the board in rd 2 when are closer to the draft and we have more color--we can name those out. But for now--these two guys to me are a priority that I would TRY to figure out how to position for.

RIP Crushalot😞
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arkrud
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2/5/2018  12:35 PM
What is shooting brains?
Do they grow on the tees or leaving in rabbit holes?
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
BRIGGS
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2/5/2018  12:37 PM
arkrud wrote:What is shooting brains?
Do they grow on the tees or leaving in rabbit holes?

Three different categories

Shooting
Brains
Athletic role player

RIP Crushalot😞
Knixkik
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2/5/2018  12:39 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
arkrud wrote:What is shooting brains?
Do they grow on the tees or leaving in rabbit holes?

Three different categories

Shooting
Brains
Athletic role player

I completely agree with you. We should be targeting players 26 and under who make at least 1.5 threes per game, and are viewed as above average athletic players (in comparison to the rest of the league.)

Nalod
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2/5/2018  1:02 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/5/2018  1:03 PM
Yeah, Target under 26 year not skinny non euro shooting braniac hi IQ, athletic, big hands, EFFICIENT, long wingspan, long attention span confident but humble ready to contribute players now!!!

I agree!!!

arkrud
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2/5/2018  1:18 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
arkrud wrote:What is shooting brains?
Do they grow on the tees or leaving in rabbit holes?

Three different categories

Shooting
Brains
Athletic role player

Correct thought.
Question is not who we need but how to get them.
Because every team need this types.
And there are not so many.
So logically thinking to get them you will need many tries and long time.
Right?

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Nalod
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2/5/2018  1:25 PM
arkrud wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
arkrud wrote:What is shooting brains?
Do they grow on the tees or leaving in rabbit holes?

Three different categories

Shooting
Brains
Athletic role player

Correct thought.
Question is not who we need but how to get them.
Because every team need this types.
And there are not so many.
So logically thinking to get them you will need many tries and long time.
Right?

Nope! You watch a lot of college games, and guys that are killing it that nite go on a short list. They are "finds". Then google the player and discover a video montage of a good game. Then post it. We get like 10 picks even though team only has one.
Its really easy BTW!!!!

fishmike
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2/5/2018  1:25 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
arkrud wrote:What is shooting brains?
Do they grow on the tees or leaving in rabbit holes?

Three different categories

Shooting
Brains
Athletic role player

where does thick man body rank in there?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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2/5/2018  2:11 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/5/2018  2:13 PM
Knixkik wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
arkrud wrote:What is shooting brains?
Do they grow on the tees or leaving in rabbit holes?

Three different categories

Shooting
Brains
Athletic role player

I completely agree with you. We should be targeting players 26 and under who make at least 1.5 threes per game, and are viewed as above average athletic players (in comparison to the rest of the league.)

We really do not have a leader on this team. We also dont have one player with a reliable jumpshot. There is a huge lack of PGs in this draft. Jalen Brunson has a reliable jumpshot has brains and leadership skills runs a pro offense set flawlessly in college and rarely makes mistakes. Gary Trent has the purest shot in the draft--there is no doubt about it. If he acclimated quicker--hed probably be sitting top 5. If we start with our weakness we can help whoever is left on this really bad team to get better. A smart PG who can make a 3 is a desperate need. 3 point shooting is a desperate need. If were going to keep KP then he needs to have help--Tim Hardaway needs to be held to a tighter standard or possibly removed into the 6th or 7th player role if he cant play team basketball. This is a VERY dumb team with no style of play. We need to change that. We need to be smarter when collecting players. We spend money in a coherent way.

RIP Crushalot😞
Knixkik
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2/5/2018  2:18 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
arkrud wrote:What is shooting brains?
Do they grow on the tees or leaving in rabbit holes?

Three different categories

Shooting
Brains
Athletic role player

I completely agree with you. We should be targeting players 26 and under who make at least 1.5 threes per game, and are viewed as above average athletic players (in comparison to the rest of the league.)

We really do not have a leader on this team. We also dont have one player with a reliable jumpshot. There is a huge lack of PGs in this draft. Jalen Brunson has a reliable jumpshot has brains and leadership skills runs a pro offense set flawlessly in college and rarely makes mistakes. Gary Trent has the purest shot in the draft--there is no doubt about it. If he acclimated quicker--hed probably be sitting top 5. If we start with our weakness we can help whoever is left on this really bad team to get better. A smart PG who can make a 3 is a desperate need. 3 point shooting is a desperate need. If were going to keep KP then he needs to have help--Tim Hardaway needs to be held to a tighter standard or possibly removed into the 6th or 7th player role if he cant play team basketball. This is a VERY dumb team with no style of play. We need to change that. We need to be smarter when collecting players. We spend money in a coherent way.

To be fair, C Lee has been both a leader and had a reliable jump shot. You want a leader, yet most want to deal the vets. Young teams led by 22 year old equals no real leadership, that is just the way it works. Trent has become a realistic target. He can really shoot. We need to get more athletic and get more shooting, no question. But it isn't going to happen all at once. Realize we are a rebuilding team that has many holes that will eventually be filled.

Nalod
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2/5/2018  2:45 PM
Nalod wrote:Yeah, Target under 26 year not skinny non euro shooting braniac hi IQ, athletic, big hands, EFFICIENT, long wingspan, long attention span confident but humble ready to contribute players now!!!

I agree!!!

oh man, how could I leave that out!

"WIth Leadership qualities"!!!!!!

BRIGGS
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2/5/2018  3:30 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/5/2018  3:40 PM
Knixkik wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
arkrud wrote:What is shooting brains?
Do they grow on the tees or leaving in rabbit holes?

Three different categories

Shooting
Brains
Athletic role player

I completely agree with you. We should be targeting players 26 and under who make at least 1.5 threes per game, and are viewed as above average athletic players (in comparison to the rest of the league.)

We really do not have a leader on this team. We also dont have one player with a reliable jumpshot. There is a huge lack of PGs in this draft. Jalen Brunson has a reliable jumpshot has brains and leadership skills runs a pro offense set flawlessly in college and rarely makes mistakes. Gary Trent has the purest shot in the draft--there is no doubt about it. If he acclimated quicker--hed probably be sitting top 5. If we start with our weakness we can help whoever is left on this really bad team to get better. A smart PG who can make a 3 is a desperate need. 3 point shooting is a desperate need. If were going to keep KP then he needs to have help--Tim Hardaway needs to be held to a tighter standard or possibly removed into the 6th or 7th player role if he cant play team basketball. This is a VERY dumb team with no style of play. We need to change that. We need to be smarter when collecting players. We spend money in a coherent way.

To be fair, C Lee has been both a leader and had a reliable jump shot. You want a leader, yet most want to deal the vets. Young teams led by 22 year old equals no real leadership, that is just the way it works. Trent has become a realistic target. He can really shoot. We need to get more athletic and get more shooting, no question. But it isn't going to happen all at once. Realize we are a rebuilding team that has many holes that will eventually be filled.

If you look at Trent's HS career and why he was ranked so highg--kind of like Devon Booker--he has more game than just the J. But he has the best J in college that has NBA pedigree--he's got a great body with good athletic ability long arms and will show an expanded game in the NBA. Right now hes a role player--but anyone should be able to see what he is and what he can be.

I also dont think you build teams who's main parts are so spread accross in years--C Lee was never much more than a role player AND 6-8 years older than what a rebuilding team needs in a prominent role. P Jackson made big mistake trying to make rebuild into winner with expensive long term vet role players.

I think our future is with KP at center--and we have a LOT of holes to fill. Might as well start with "PG brains" and a guy who can spread the floor nd score well. Villanova is so good--you can get Brunson to play right away without the need to wait 3 years.

RIP Crushalot😞
Knixkik
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2/5/2018  3:42 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
arkrud wrote:What is shooting brains?
Do they grow on the tees or leaving in rabbit holes?

Three different categories

Shooting
Brains
Athletic role player

I completely agree with you. We should be targeting players 26 and under who make at least 1.5 threes per game, and are viewed as above average athletic players (in comparison to the rest of the league.)

We really do not have a leader on this team. We also dont have one player with a reliable jumpshot. There is a huge lack of PGs in this draft. Jalen Brunson has a reliable jumpshot has brains and leadership skills runs a pro offense set flawlessly in college and rarely makes mistakes. Gary Trent has the purest shot in the draft--there is no doubt about it. If he acclimated quicker--hed probably be sitting top 5. If we start with our weakness we can help whoever is left on this really bad team to get better. A smart PG who can make a 3 is a desperate need. 3 point shooting is a desperate need. If were going to keep KP then he needs to have help--Tim Hardaway needs to be held to a tighter standard or possibly removed into the 6th or 7th player role if he cant play team basketball. This is a VERY dumb team with no style of play. We need to change that. We need to be smarter when collecting players. We spend money in a coherent way.

To be fair, C Lee has been both a leader and had a reliable jump shot. You want a leader, yet most want to deal the vets. Young teams led by 22 year old equals no real leadership, that is just the way it works. Trent has become a realistic target. He can really shoot. We need to get more athletic and get more shooting, no question. But it isn't going to happen all at once. Realize we are a rebuilding team that has many holes that will eventually be filled.

If you look at Trent's HS career and why he was ranked so highg--kind of like Devon Booker--he has more game than just the J. But he has the best J in college that has NBA pedigree--he's got a great body with good athletic ability long arms and will show an expanded game in the NBA. Right now hes a role player--but anyone should be able to see what he is and what he can be.

I also dont think you build teams who's main parts are so spread accross in years--C Lee was never much more than a role player AND 6-8 years older than what a rebuilding team needs in a prominent role. P Jackson made big mistake trying to make rebuild into winner with expensive long term vet role players.

Vets serve their purpose and Lee is worth his contract. He is one of the few mid-high level role players that has been earning his contract. But i agree with you, paying a bunch of role players market value or higher isn't a good way to build. That MLE money that people pay role players each year hardly pays out. Those players don't turn into all-stars and don't add to the fanbase, so i can see that money being given out less and less in the future. We need to build with the right players on rookie deals or KOQ type contracts and add another max level player. Having KP making max money soon, Hardaway making his 18 mil a year, and another max player is fine as long as guys on rookie deals are producing above their pay.

Finestrg
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2/5/2018  4:30 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/5/2018  4:47 PM
#1 - Start Trey Burke the rest of the way. Finish games with him at the helm as well. Also play Frank enough too. IMPERATIVE to find out more about these two as we wind down the season. Burke/Frank at the point the rest of the way. NO MORE JACK.

#2 - Open up some roster spots -- trade O'Quinn and Lee to the highest bidders. Buy out Noah. No point with this guy now. Complete lost cause--he's not even with the team anymore. I mean would they rather keep paying him while occupying a roster spot OR pay him but at least have an open spot to evaluate another player? Resist stretching him which will only compound the problem (his salary) to future years. Turn the page as soon as possible. Cut Lance Thomas as well--any idea that Thomas is some keeper, a team captain and some necessity here is beyond laughable. Nice guy, he hustles but he's just not a good NBA player. To me, he's part of the problem, not the solution. Does not have a high enough impact on the court. I want a higher impact player there, doesn't matter to me one bit if the player's younger and less experienced.

#3 - Immediately call up Christian Wood and Brandon Ashley and insert them in the KOQ/LT roles for the rest of the year. Evaluate that closely. My bet is that would be two frontcourt upgrades on both sides of the ball and we'd uncover two players we'd more than want to bring back for next year and beyond. Huge shot in the arm for our frontcourt on both sides of the ball for next to nothing.

#4 - Play Dotson once Lee is traded. We need shooting, I agree. This kid's a shooter and part of the future, right? No brainer.

#5 - Look to execute a strategic low grade trade or 2 for talent upgrades:

Khem Birch/rights to Janis Timma from ORL?
Demetrius Jackson from the Sixers?
Antonio Blakeney from the Bulls?

Anything else might cost too much but these trades might be doable. These are only a couple of ideas I've considered for weeks now, I'm sure there are others.. The thinking here is we'd be able to get in on the ground floor on some afterthought players and cultivate them quickly into NBA rotation talent.

#6 - Tell Willy and his representation we don't want to trade him and that he's very much a part of the future here. Can't let a big man talent like this walk out the door for nothing because he's unhappy. Fix the problem -- start playing him if/when O'Quinn's traded.

#7 - Imperative to come up with a game plan and sit KP down and inform him what it is.

#8 - After these alterations are made and the season concludes, reassess this summer -- draft and FA. Baby steps.. No way we do anything stupid now by taking on bad salaries etc., but that doesn't mean we still can't do some things.

HofstraBBall
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2/5/2018  4:38 PM
The more I read these thread the more I realize what a ****ty franchise we have become. And how most of the fans have lost all touch with the possibilities of winning but instead like to just hear themselves talk.

We needed Irving at any cost.
We need our franchise player to not be a Euro Soft flopper who thinks he is a SG and only likes to shoot 3's.
We need to trade anyone that was considered a "Traingle fit" as that means over achieving role player that can pass the ball to a Michael Jordan/Kobe Bryant type.
We need to pick dynamic draft picks that have long proven records in youth USA basketball and college.
We need to play our so called "Young Core" and see if they are actually anything close to a "Core"

Saying we need all these things or the ones the thread is suggesting does not mean ****. As this team has shown its just takes so much to make a team succesful and this organazation will always **** things up.

WE HAVE OFFICIALLY BECOME JETS, METS and every other lame organazation that thinks they are anywhere near getting it right.

Just kidding Nix, we will be top 4 within two years.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
BRIGGS
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2/5/2018  4:50 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/5/2018  4:52 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:The more I read these thread the more I realize what a ****ty franchise we have become. And how most of the fans have lost all touch with the possibilities of winning but instead like to just hear themselves talk.

We needed Irving at any cost.
We need our franchise player to not be a Euro Soft flopper who thinks he is a SG and only likes to shoot 3's.
We need to trade anyone that was considered a "Traingle fit" as that means over achieving role player that can pass the ball to a Michael Jordan/Kobe Bryant type.
We need to pick dynamic draft picks that have long proven records in youth USA basketball and college.
We need to play our so called "Young Core" and see if they are actually anything close to a "Core"

Saying we need all these things or the ones the thread is suggesting does not mean ****. As this team has shown its just takes so much to make a team succesful and this organazation will always **** things up.

WE HAVE OFFICIALLY BECOME JETS, METS and every other lame organazation that thinks they are anywhere near getting it right.

Just kidding Nix, we will be top 4 within two years.

Were that far back to be honest. Our record only hides some of the vet help we had this year. We have some stability with Kanter Lee and Jack--but this was never a team. Im not sure what this team is and I dont think the Gms do either. Its not a tough team not a smart team not an athletic team nor do they play good team basketball. Its easy to post get K Irving at all cost when we never had a chance. Its easy to post draft the next Jordan with an 11 pick and no cap space.

The cards we have are limited. You look at deficiencies and go from there. KP should be moved to center and we need to build a much more mobile team that can shoot dribble and pass much better. We need players ho can think out there--THJ shows a player who has some talent who has no brains for the game. He needs a PG and coach who will "get him on track" like KP needs to be put on track. We are SO FAR from winning big--that is your true reality. We have nothing that can defeat Boston==not even close--once you cant even come close to competing in your own division--might as well go to the lab and think on what you can do. Picking up old vets isnt going to get it done. This is a VERY VERY bad sports franchise that has only one stability--maybe the worst owner in sports.

RIP Crushalot😞
HofstraBBall
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2/5/2018  5:55 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/5/2018  5:56 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:The more I read these thread the more I realize what a ****ty franchise we have become. And how most of the fans have lost all touch with the possibilities of winning but instead like to just hear themselves talk.

We needed Irving at any cost.
We need our franchise player to not be a Euro Soft flopper who thinks he is a SG and only likes to shoot 3's.
We need to trade anyone that was considered a "Traingle fit" as that means over achieving role player that can pass the ball to a Michael Jordan/Kobe Bryant type.
We need to pick dynamic draft picks that have long proven records in youth USA basketball and college.
We need to play our so called "Young Core" and see if they are actually anything close to a "Core"

Saying we need all these things or the ones the thread is suggesting does not mean ****. As this team has shown its just takes so much to make a team succesful and this organazation will always **** things up.

WE HAVE OFFICIALLY BECOME JETS, METS and every other lame organazation that thinks they are anywhere near getting it right.

Just kidding Nix, we will be top 4 within two years.

Were that far back to be honest. Our record only hides some of the vet help we had this year. We have some stability with Kanter Lee and Jack--but this was never a team. Im not sure what this team is and I dont think the Gms do either. Its not a tough team not a smart team not an athletic team nor do they play good team basketball. Its easy to post get K Irving at all cost when we never had a chance. Its easy to post draft the next Jordan with an 11 pick and no cap space.

The cards we have are limited. You look at deficiencies and go from there. KP should be moved to center and we need to build a much more mobile team that can shoot dribble and pass much better. We need players ho can think out there--THJ shows a player who has some talent who has no brains for the game. He needs a PG and coach who will "get him on track" like KP needs to be put on track. We are SO FAR from winning big--that is your true reality. We have nothing that can defeat Boston==not even close--once you cant even come close to competing in your own division--might as well go to the lab and think on what you can do. Picking up old vets isnt going to get it done. This is a VERY VERY bad sports franchise that has only one stability--maybe the worst owner in sports.

Here is the thing, many on here have dreams that the franchise will put together a whole bunch of 70's tyoe players tha "Play the game the right way" , "Make the right pass" and play solid defense. Its just what old school NY fans remeber basketball to be. The problem is that was in the 70's and that style is dead. Thats probably the reason why so many loved the idea of Phil and his tight short over achieving style. I know, I know, he had the best system of all time and could have won it without Kobe, Shaq, MJ, Pippen. And Nix and Fishmike will comment on the intangibles Noah, Baker and Frank bring to the game. Fuck the 70's. How about we add some 90's type toughness and some 2018 type offensive dynamic players that can put defenses on their heals.

What we need is to draft dynamic scorers that can dictate a game. (Smith Jr, Mitchell). We need to add players that are not soft outside shooters and never drive. We need to stop drafting soft Euro players that would be thrown out of any Brooklyn basketball league for being too much of a *****. Our current team has NO toughness! They have no player that takes it strong to the basket when we need a hoop. (maybe Beas) And they have no player that likes to draw attention so as to set up a team mate. Very dissapointed with this team. Specially after they showed they could do everything I just mentioned.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
BRIGGS
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2/5/2018  6:10 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:The more I read these thread the more I realize what a ****ty franchise we have become. And how most of the fans have lost all touch with the possibilities of winning but instead like to just hear themselves talk.

We needed Irving at any cost.
We need our franchise player to not be a Euro Soft flopper who thinks he is a SG and only likes to shoot 3's.
We need to trade anyone that was considered a "Traingle fit" as that means over achieving role player that can pass the ball to a Michael Jordan/Kobe Bryant type.
We need to pick dynamic draft picks that have long proven records in youth USA basketball and college.
We need to play our so called "Young Core" and see if they are actually anything close to a "Core"

Saying we need all these things or the ones the thread is suggesting does not mean ****. As this team has shown its just takes so much to make a team succesful and this organazation will always **** things up.

WE HAVE OFFICIALLY BECOME JETS, METS and every other lame organazation that thinks they are anywhere near getting it right.

Just kidding Nix, we will be top 4 within two years.

Were that far back to be honest. Our record only hides some of the vet help we had this year. We have some stability with Kanter Lee and Jack--but this was never a team. Im not sure what this team is and I dont think the Gms do either. Its not a tough team not a smart team not an athletic team nor do they play good team basketball. Its easy to post get K Irving at all cost when we never had a chance. Its easy to post draft the next Jordan with an 11 pick and no cap space.

The cards we have are limited. You look at deficiencies and go from there. KP should be moved to center and we need to build a much more mobile team that can shoot dribble and pass much better. We need players ho can think out there--THJ shows a player who has some talent who has no brains for the game. He needs a PG and coach who will "get him on track" like KP needs to be put on track. We are SO FAR from winning big--that is your true reality. We have nothing that can defeat Boston==not even close--once you cant even come close to competing in your own division--might as well go to the lab and think on what you can do. Picking up old vets isnt going to get it done. This is a VERY VERY bad sports franchise that has only one stability--maybe the worst owner in sports.

Here is the thing, many on here have dreams that the franchise will put together a whole bunch of 70's tyoe players tha "Play the game the right way" , "Make the right pass" and play solid defense. Its just what old school NY fans remeber basketball to be. The problem is that was in the 70's and that style is dead. Thats probably the reason why so many loved the idea of Phil and his tight short over achieving style. I know, I know, he had the best system of all time and could have won it without Kobe, Shaq, MJ, Pippen. And Nix and Fishmike will comment on the intangibles Noah, Baker and Frank bring to the game. Fuck the 70's. How about we add some 90's type toughness and some 2018 type offensive dynamic players that can put defenses on their heals.

What we need is to draft dynamic scorers that can dictate a game. (Smith Jr, Mitchell). We need to add players that are not soft outside shooters and never drive. We need to stop drafting soft Euro players that would be thrown out of any Brooklyn basketball league for being too much of a *****. Our current team has NO toughness! They have no player that takes it strong to the basket when we need a hoop. (maybe Beas) And they have no player that likes to draw attention so as to set up a team mate. Very dissapointed with this team. Specially after they showed they could do everything I just mentioned.

So basically drafting a klay Thompson is no good. And I guess a curry is no good or dray green is no good? James harden is no good?

RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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2/5/2018  6:14 PM
We need a gm and a coach who will dedicate moving kp to 5 and going from there. Kp needs to take it upon himself to get better in the post.

Steve mills is an awful choice to run a franchise. An inflexible self aggrandizing stooge

RIP Crushalot😞
Bretrobert1
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2/5/2018  6:24 PM
Briggs,

I agree w/ your original thought, but here's what I'd add. Good 3 point shooting teams, might not be full of the actual best shooters; but they're typically made up of teams that can shoot and really move the ball really well. Look at Golden State and Purdue in college. Both at or near the top in 3 pt %, both teams pass the ball as well as anyone in their leagues. Next time you watch Purdue, focus on Dakota Mathias on both ends of the court. Perfect example.

"I love you guys." -Norman Dale
Teams needs shooting brains and athletic role players in that order

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