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This team is so much better than last years team (On paper) So why are we not a winning squad?
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HofstraBBall
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1/31/2018  11:09 PM
If you look at our roster this year, it is so much better than last year. (on Paper). The East is the weakest it has been in 15 years. Really expected a winning record at this point of the season.

2016 Carmelo Anthony SF Willy Hernangomez C Courtney Lee SG Rose PG KP PF
Bench: Baker, Holiday, Jennings. Kuz, Ndour, Noah, O'Quinn, Plumlee, Randle, Lance, Sasha

2017 KP PF, Kanter C, Timmy SF, Lee SG, Jack PG
Bench: Mcdermot, KO, Noah, Lance, Beasley, Frank, Baker, Dotson, Burke

Everyone claimed Melo was a ball stop and hurt the team on defense, we have better defender in Timmy and Melo's replacement, Kanter, is a virtual double double of late.
Some claimed KP was being held back. Guess he was because as he is now an All Star. But still reminds me of a really tall kid that thinks he is a SG.
Lee is having his best year in quite some time. Not very good last year.
Timmy is having a good year seemed to step up to bigger role.
Jack has been a pleasant surprise. Rose was an unpleasant dissapointment.

The first guy off the bench is Frank (who Nix says stops everyone on defense). Our first guy off the bench last year was sometimes Sasha?
Our scoring off the bench is Beasley (Sometimes best player of the game), KO (Having his best year), and Buckets (Can hit open 3's and very active). Last year we had guys that are no longer in the league and Justin Holiday.

I thought without uncle Phil and the Triangle, the team would have less distractions. So why do we take a **** against decent teams and cant win on the road? Are these guys just pretenders? Look at the Boston game. KP was weak and the 7th best player on a floor without Smart and Irving playing. 7'3 and gets 3 F..n rebounds in 35 minutes? Lee dissappeared, as ussual in big games. (7 pts. in 29 min) Timmy went back to pre D league Timmy. (4pt. in 27 min) The only guy that showed up was Kanter. Frank is still developing (I know it will take at least 6 years) Beasley scored 12 in just 12 min? Burke got 5 min? In a game where we got blown out by 30. KO, Buckets, Lance did not make the most of their minutes.

Just dont get this team. Really thought we had a better squad. Is it heart?, coaching? or no leader? Have no idea what Perry and Mills are going to do. Hard to watch yet another year where the whole squad gets scraped. But after today, its hard to care.

fishmike Posts: 48006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA 6/23/2016 12:35 PM fishmike worte" The dream? Would be Pg Rose SG GPII SF Durant PF Melo C Noah Bench: KP, Langston, KOQ, Clyde Frazier
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Knixkik
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1/31/2018  11:13 PM
Better on paper? We had Melo and Rose last year, the definition of good players on paper. Most people looked at this roster and thought we were winning 25 games at most. ESPN, Vegas etc all had us at 30 or less. We are led by a 22 year old. I think we are ahead of schedule as far as wins.
HofstraBBall
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1/31/2018  11:49 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/31/2018  11:52 PM
Knixkik wrote:Better on paper? We had Melo and Rose last year, the definition of good players on paper. Most people looked at this roster and thought we were winning 25 games at most. ESPN, Vegas etc all had us at 30 or less. We are led by a 22 year old. I think we are ahead of schedule as far as wins.

Lets ignore the rest of the roster, (as it is a team sport). But I am sure "Most People" thought we would be where we are after the great start to the season. As for Espn and Vegas, everyone knows they love the Knicks. Melo is a future HOF, just scored 25K but okay, lets go with your premise. So we had two paper players last year, guys having off years and the rest were D leaguers. Doesnt that make us better this year? (my point) Ahead of whos schedule? Your talking like we were the Sixers , from a few years ago, and full of rookies in starting roles. This team should be winning more. Tired of this bull**** where its okay to underachieve.

fishmike Posts: 48006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA 6/23/2016 12:35 PM fishmike worte" The dream? Would be Pg Rose SG GPII SF Durant PF Melo C Noah Bench: KP, Langston, KOQ, Clyde Frazier
Kemet
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2/1/2018  2:21 AM
The Knicks rid themselves of selfish Iso-Melo & Iso-Rose ..
Two down now two to go .. The Knicks did not get rid of a clueless assistant coach Rambis nor did the Knicks fire their No-Defense / No-Offensive plan Head coach Hornacek.
The coaching staff were clueless on how to develop last season young core of players, and the coaching staff showed to be clueless this season too.
Jmpasq
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2/1/2018  6:57 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/1/2018  7:05 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:If you look at our roster this year, it is so much better than last year. (on Paper). The East is the weakest it has been in 15 years. Really expected a winning record at this point of the season.

2016 Carmelo Anthony SF Willy Hernangomez C Courtney Lee SG Rose PG KP PF
Bench: Baker, Holiday, Jennings. Kuz, Ndour, Noah, O'Quinn, Plumlee, Randle, Lance, Sasha

2017 KP PF, Kanter C, Timmy SF, Lee SG, Jack PG
Bench: Mcdermot, KO, Noah, Lance, Beasley, Frank, Baker, Dotson, Burke

Everyone claimed Melo was a ball stop and hurt the team on defense, we have better defender in Timmy and Melo's replacement, Kanter, is a virtual double double of late.
Some claimed KP was being held back. Guess he was because as he is now an All Star. But still reminds me of a really tall kid that thinks he is a SG.
Lee is having his best year in quite some time. Not very good last year.
Timmy is having a good year seemed to step up to bigger role.
Jack has been a pleasant surprise. Rose was an unpleasant dissapointment.

The first guy off the bench is Frank (who Nix says stops everyone on defense). Our first guy off the bench last year was sometimes Sasha?
Our scoring off the bench is Beasley (Sometimes best player of the game), KO (Having his best year), and Buckets (Can hit open 3's and very active). Last year we had guys that are no longer in the league and Justin Holiday.

I thought without uncle Phil and the Triangle, the team would have less distractions. So why do we take a **** against decent teams and cant win on the road? Are these guys just pretenders? Look at the Boston game. KP was weak and the 7th best player on a floor without Smart and Irving playing. 7'3 and gets 3 F..n rebounds in 35 minutes? Lee dissappeared, as ussual in big games. (7 pts. in 29 min) Timmy went back to pre D league Timmy. (4pt. in 27 min) The only guy that showed up was Kanter. Frank is still developing (I know it will take at least 6 years) Beasley scored 12 in just 12 min? Burke got 5 min? In a game where we got blown out by 30. KO, Buckets, Lance did not make the most of their minutes.

Just dont get this team. Really thought we had a better squad. Is it heart?, coaching? or no leader? Have no idea what Perry and Mills are going to do. Hard to watch yet another year where the whole squad gets scraped. But after today, its hard to care.

Our bench isn't that good. Our back up guards and SF's are putrid, Melo and Hardaway is an even swap. The only difference is Kanter

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franco12
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2/1/2018  7:29 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:If you look at our roster this year, it is so much better than last year. (on Paper). The East is the weakest it has been in 15 years. Really expected a winning record at this point of the season.

2016 Carmelo Anthony SF Willy Hernangomez C Courtney Lee SG Rose PG KP PF
Bench: Baker, Holiday, Jennings. Kuz, Ndour, Noah, O'Quinn, Plumlee, Randle, Lance, Sasha

2017 KP PF, Kanter C, Timmy SF, Lee SG, Jack PG
Bench: Mcdermot, KO, Noah, Lance, Beasley, Frank, Baker, Dotson, Burke

Everyone claimed Melo was a ball stop and hurt the team on defense, we have better defender in Timmy and Melo's replacement, Kanter, is a virtual double double of late.
Some claimed KP was being held back. Guess he was because as he is now an All Star. But still reminds me of a really tall kid that thinks he is a SG.
Lee is having his best year in quite some time. Not very good last year.
Timmy is having a good year seemed to step up to bigger role.
Jack has been a pleasant surprise. Rose was an unpleasant dissapointment.

The first guy off the bench is Frank (who Nix says stops everyone on defense). Our first guy off the bench last year was sometimes Sasha?
Our scoring off the bench is Beasley (Sometimes best player of the game), KO (Having his best year), and Buckets (Can hit open 3's and very active). Last year we had guys that are no longer in the league and Justin Holiday.

I thought without uncle Phil and the Triangle, the team would have less distractions. So why do we take a **** against decent teams and cant win on the road? Are these guys just pretenders? Look at the Boston game. KP was weak and the 7th best player on a floor without Smart and Irving playing. 7'3 and gets 3 F..n rebounds in 35 minutes? Lee dissappeared, as ussual in big games. (7 pts. in 29 min) Timmy went back to pre D league Timmy. (4pt. in 27 min) The only guy that showed up was Kanter. Frank is still developing (I know it will take at least 6 years) Beasley scored 12 in just 12 min? Burke got 5 min? In a game where we got blown out by 30. KO, Buckets, Lance did not make the most of their minutes.

Just dont get this team. Really thought we had a better squad. Is it heart?, coaching? or no leader? Have no idea what Perry and Mills are going to do. Hard to watch yet another year where the whole squad gets scraped. But after today, its hard to care.

I think its fair to be concerned with what our coaching staff is or isn't doing to develop our talent, especially KP.

However, their troubles on the road is, I think, the sign of a young team that needs to learn how to win on the road.

Add a SF in the draft, and hopefully we'll start to see this group perform better.

But, I am worried that we've gotten a lot more out of players than hoped (Beasley, Jack, Kanter, KOQ) that won't be here long term. Namely, what does this squad look like next year without Beasley, Kanter & KOQ?

Bonn1997
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2/1/2018  8:04 AM
The team is a little better. We'd have to finish with only 8 wins in the remaining 30 games to tie last year.
franco12
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2/1/2018  8:13 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:The team is a little better. We'd have to finish with only 8 wins in the remaining 30 games to tie last year.

We're 1 win better than last year at this time.

Knixkik
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2/1/2018  8:52 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Better on paper? We had Melo and Rose last year, the definition of good players on paper. Most people looked at this roster and thought we were winning 25 games at most. ESPN, Vegas etc all had us at 30 or less. We are led by a 22 year old. I think we are ahead of schedule as far as wins.

Lets ignore the rest of the roster, (as it is a team sport). But I am sure "Most People" thought we would be where we are after the great start to the season. As for Espn and Vegas, everyone knows they love the Knicks. Melo is a future HOF, just scored 25K but okay, lets go with your premise. So we had two paper players last year, guys having off years and the rest were D leaguers. Doesnt that make us better this year? (my point) Ahead of whos schedule? Your talking like we were the Sixers , from a few years ago, and full of rookies in starting roles. This team should be winning more. Tired of this bull**** where its okay to underachieve.

Look at all the prediction threads from before the season. Go ahead and dig them up. I was one of the only people here who said we would finish better than last year, if i remember correctly. Then we lost our first 7 games between preseason and regular season. What was the perception of the team then? We are a rebuilding team. Are you really going to start a thread about underachieving after losing to the Celtics on the road? If you want to judge this team after every game like many fans, then yes, on this particular night we badly underachieved.

SupremeCommander
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2/1/2018  9:30 AM
there is no way this team was better on paper than last year's. no way. I think you are being a revisionist historian. The only people that thought it would be better, for the most part, always drink the koolaid
fishmike said: Yes. Sometimes I confuse the alerts with when your mom calls. BTW she said defensive guards are really important.
newyorknewyork
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2/1/2018  9:53 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/1/2018  9:54 AM
Because this is a team in transition always was. This isn't a team that was put together piece by piece.

-Hardaway Jr plays the same position as Courtney Lee.
Yet he was signed to a contract and asked to play SF for the time being. Reason being it was a piece they wanted to secure for the long term.

-Knicks had Noah, KOQ, Willy, & KP would play some center.
Yet we had to take on Kanter as it was the best offer available for Melo.

-Knicks signed Sessions, Jack, Baker over going after a Rondo or Hill or both.
Because they only wanted to pay more the league min on players around the age of 24.

We are behind the curb at the SF/PF combo spot in terms of length and athleticism and skill. And our PG position is a work in progress. The roster needs more balance, and to add some more talented pieces at the positions of need to be built up.

Melo's best position today is the same position as KP. Trading Melo was the right move for both parties. There was no future here for the union. Unless Melo was willing to play Beasley's role off the bench.

HofstraBBall
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2/1/2018  11:15 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/1/2018  11:31 AM
Knixkik wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Better on paper? We had Melo and Rose last year, the definition of good players on paper. Most people looked at this roster and thought we were winning 25 games at most. ESPN, Vegas etc all had us at 30 or less. We are led by a 22 year old. I think we are ahead of schedule as far as wins.

Lets ignore the rest of the roster, (as it is a team sport). But I am sure "Most People" thought we would be where we are after the great start to the season. As for Espn and Vegas, everyone knows they love the Knicks. Melo is a future HOF, just scored 25K but okay, lets go with your premise. So we had two paper players last year, guys having off years and the rest were D leaguers. Doesnt that make us better this year? (my point) Ahead of whos schedule? Your talking like we were the Sixers , from a few years ago, and full of rookies in starting roles. This team should be winning more. Tired of this bull**** where its okay to underachieve.

Look at all the prediction threads from before the season. Go ahead and dig them up. I was one of the only people here who said we would finish better than last year, if i remember correctly. Then we lost our first 7 games between preseason and regular season. What was the perception of the team then? We are a rebuilding team. Are you really going to start a thread about underachieving after losing to the Celtics on the road? If you want to judge this team after every game like many fans, then yes, on this particular night we badly underachieved.

After a Boston loss? You call that a loss. We looked like a D league squad playing against GS. They were wirhout Irving and Smart. Thats a bull**** cop out. Your making seem like I am expecting a championship. Fact is this team IS better and something is wrong.
Btw, you were not the only one thinking this team would have a better record than last year. Some of us atually thought they would make the palyoffs. You may try to make this team to be "At where they should be" but the fact is they have shown that they should be playing better. Kanter is ten times better than Willy was last year. Lee is playing a carreer year, KP has greatly improved and TIm has had games where he is lights out. So keep expecting nothing and thinking another 30 win year is where this "team should be". I am the guy paying for tickets and watching this **** show.

fishmike Posts: 48006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA 6/23/2016 12:35 PM fishmike worte" The dream? Would be Pg Rose SG GPII SF Durant PF Melo C Noah Bench: KP, Langston, KOQ, Clyde Frazier
martin
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2/1/2018  12:08 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Better on paper? We had Melo and Rose last year, the definition of good players on paper. Most people looked at this roster and thought we were winning 25 games at most. ESPN, Vegas etc all had us at 30 or less. We are led by a 22 year old. I think we are ahead of schedule as far as wins.

Lets ignore the rest of the roster, (as it is a team sport). But I am sure "Most People" thought we would be where we are after the great start to the season. As for Espn and Vegas, everyone knows they love the Knicks. Melo is a future HOF, just scored 25K but okay, lets go with your premise. So we had two paper players last year, guys having off years and the rest were D leaguers. Doesnt that make us better this year? (my point) Ahead of whos schedule? Your talking like we were the Sixers , from a few years ago, and full of rookies in starting roles. This team should be winning more. Tired of this bull**** where its okay to underachieve.

Look at all the prediction threads from before the season. Go ahead and dig them up. I was one of the only people here who said we would finish better than last year, if i remember correctly. Then we lost our first 7 games between preseason and regular season. What was the perception of the team then? We are a rebuilding team. Are you really going to start a thread about underachieving after losing to the Celtics on the road? If you want to judge this team after every game like many fans, then yes, on this particular night we badly underachieved.

After a Boston loss? You call that a loss. We looked like a D league squad playing against GS. They were wirhout Irving and Smart. Thats a bull**** cop out. Your making seem like I am expecting a championship. Fact is this team IS better and something is wrong.
Btw, you were not the only one thinking this team would have a better record than last year. Some of us atually thought they would make the palyoffs. You may try to make this team to be "At where they should be" but the fact is they have shown that they should be playing better. Kanter is ten times better than Willy was last year. Lee is playing a carreer year, KP has greatly improved and TIm has had games where he is lights out. So keep expecting nothing and thinking another 30 win year is where this "team should be". I am the guy paying for tickets and watching this **** show.

You are projecting your ticket buying expectations on the team

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EnySpree
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2/1/2018  12:11 PM
Even good teams don't sit still... watch golden State and clevland make moves to improve at the deadline. You never stop or settle.

The Knicks need to keep adding talent. We're not winning as much now because we don't have enough firepower. We're putting out lance, Baker and Frank in the same line up and winder why we can't win or get behind so fast. We're stl talking about getting defense. This isn't football. We need better players that care. We could get 1 maybe two at the deadline. Maybe another in the summer. That's how you get better. You never stop plugging away

You know why I'm here....
jrodmc
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2/1/2018  12:30 PM
EnySpree wrote:Even good teams don't sit still... watch golden State and clevland make moves to improve at the deadline. You never stop or settle.

The Knicks need to keep adding talent. We're not winning as much now because we don't have enough firepower. We're putting out lance, Baker and Frank in the same line up and winder why we can't win or get behind so fast. We're stl talking about getting defense. This isn't football. We need better players that care. We could get 1 maybe two at the deadline. Maybe another in the summer. That's how you get better. You never stop plugging away

Going to be interesting to see what Team Unicorn starts spouting if no moves are made at the deadline.

You guys spend a lot of time commenting on the internet?
Nalod
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2/1/2018  1:00 PM
We beat boston at home a month ago without Hardaway.
Team was competitive then a god awful 4th quarter.
Fans freak out. Writers like to freak us out.
Anyone think coaches and management freak out on a bad quarter?
That was really bad TV last night.
Anger sells, don't buy!
nyknickzingis
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2/1/2018  1:21 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/1/2018  1:37 PM
Knixkik wrote:Better on paper? We had Melo and Rose last year, the definition of good players on paper. Most people looked at this roster and thought we were winning 25 games at most. ESPN, Vegas etc all had us at 30 or less. We are led by a 22 year old. I think we are ahead of schedule as far as wins.

Hof has an agenda
It's so obvious

This team was widely picked to be 25 to 29 wins
Last years team was picked to be 37 to 39 wins

We will exceed expectations this year
Last year we failed expectations

Melo is no longer an all star
KP just became one

Don't see the issue being no Melo

KP does not make the team and the step he has this year if Melo ball is still played. When is the last time the Knicks had a home grown drafted all star at 22 years old? Future is bright. Patience is key. Trading Melo was a must to get KP experience and reps as the man the defense targets to stop. He would never be an all star or get these chances playing second option to Melo.

knicks1248
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2/1/2018  1:37 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/1/2018  1:38 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:If you look at our roster this year, it is so much better than last year. (on Paper). The East is the weakest it has been in 15 years. Really expected a winning record at this point of the season.

2016 Carmelo Anthony SF Willy Hernangomez C Courtney Lee SG Rose PG KP PF
Bench: Baker, Holiday, Jennings. Kuz, Ndour, Noah, O'Quinn, Plumlee, Randle, Lance, Sasha

2017 KP PF, Kanter C, Timmy SF, Lee SG, Jack PG
Bench: Mcdermot, KO, Noah, Lance, Beasley, Frank, Baker, Dotson, Burke

Everyone claimed Melo was a ball stop and hurt the team on defense, we have better defender in Timmy and Melo's replacement, Kanter, is a virtual double double of late.
Some claimed KP was being held back. Guess he was because as he is now an All Star. But still reminds me of a really tall kid that thinks he is a SG.
Lee is having his best year in quite some time. Not very good last year.
Timmy is having a good year seemed to step up to bigger role.
Jack has been a pleasant surprise. Rose was an unpleasant dissapointment.

The first guy off the bench is Frank (who Nix says stops everyone on defense). Our first guy off the bench last year was sometimes Sasha?
Our scoring off the bench is Beasley (Sometimes best player of the game), KO (Having his best year), and Buckets (Can hit open 3's and very active). Last year we had guys that are no longer in the league and Justin Holiday.

I thought without uncle Phil and the Triangle, the team would have less distractions. So why do we take a **** against decent teams and cant win on the road? Are these guys just pretenders? Look at the Boston game. KP was weak and the 7th best player on a floor without Smart and Irving playing. 7'3 and gets 3 F..n rebounds in 35 minutes? Lee dissappeared, as ussual in big games. (7 pts. in 29 min) Timmy went back to pre D league Timmy. (4pt. in 27 min) The only guy that showed up was Kanter. Frank is still developing (I know it will take at least 6 years) Beasley scored 12 in just 12 min? Burke got 5 min? In a game where we got blown out by 30. KO, Buckets, Lance did not make the most of their minutes.

Just dont get this team. Really thought we had a better squad. Is it heart?, coaching? or no leader? Have no idea what Perry and Mills are going to do. Hard to watch yet another year where the whole squad gets scraped. But after today, its hard to care.

I Tried to give JH and rambis the benefit, especially with the early success and no triangle. But I'm coming to the realization that we have a coaching staff that doesn't know wtf their doing. (which is why phil told him to scrap his system and run the triangle)

The rotation has been butchered, The use of KP, willy, frank, lee, lance, thj, baker, Bease, mCdermott and now burke, has been a joke, there has been zero consistency across the board, other then running the same inconsistent system and plays for kp that has him looking like a shot blocking SG


The development for willy, frank, dotson and KP(who became a all star for one month of all star play) has been butchered. Each and every one of our young players has gotten worse as the season progresses.

Then you have to go back to Perry( who did a downright awful job in orlando developing aybody) and put together a brutal KINGS team just this pass off season. Mills who has nothing on his resume indicating any kind of success, building a team, developing a team, or building a culture.

Those guys don't know how to evaluate talent, acquire talent, or use the talent they have.

And the noah Incident may have just sealed JH Fate

ES
knicks1248
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2/1/2018  1:44 PM
The only thing KP and frank are developing, are bad habits. KP still can't rebound or pass still takes a ton of mid range contested shots, frank continues to take one lay up per game, passes the ball to his teammate in a very bad position, the spacing is comical
ES
HofstraBBall
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2/1/2018  4:08 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Better on paper? We had Melo and Rose last year, the definition of good players on paper. Most people looked at this roster and thought we were winning 25 games at most. ESPN, Vegas etc all had us at 30 or less. We are led by a 22 year old. I think we are ahead of schedule as far as wins.

Hof has an agenda
It's so obvious

This team was widely picked to be 25 to 29 wins
Last years team was picked to be 37 to 39 wins

We will exceed expectations this year
Last year we failed expectations

Melo is no longer an all star
KP just became one

Don't see the issue being no Melo

KP does not make the team and the step he has this year if Melo ball is still played. When is the last time the Knicks had a home grown drafted all star at 22 years old? Future is bright. Patience is key. Trading Melo was a must to get KP experience and reps as the man the defense targets to stop. He would never be an all star or get these chances playing second option to Melo.

I have an agenda? Stating we are better this year and it's not translating to wins? Gthoh. Yet you go on a Melo rant and focus on propping KP up. Your only agenda is defending KP and making sure he is the man. Is that why you are so sensitive to someone saying we should be better? Because he has not lead the team as you had dreamed? Come on. This is a simple thread. The way we started the year, I expected to make the playoffs. But keep using your intuition for what ever reason.

fishmike Posts: 48006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA 6/23/2016 12:35 PM fishmike worte" The dream? Would be Pg Rose SG GPII SF Durant PF Melo C Noah Bench: KP, Langston, KOQ, Clyde Frazier
This team is so much better than last years team (On paper) So why are we not a winning squad?

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