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There are 2 teams giving up less than 100 pts a game..
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Bretrobert1
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1/31/2018  10:41 AM
Celtics and Spurs. The Knicks are currently giving up 105 pts/game, which is right around the league avg. What would you do to continuosly improve this team stat for the Knicks? Who you keeping long-term, who you looking to sign and draft and why?
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fishmike
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1/31/2018  11:00 AM
thank you. There is only one ball. You must have multiple high level defenders on the floor. You dont advance in the playoffs without getting stops.

I think Knicks are pushing the right buttons. Guys like Lance, Lee and Baker get minutes because of defense. KOQ's defense got Willy buried on bench. I think they are going the right way towards building the chemistry.

As for guys to acquire that is a bit more tricky. You dont really get to pick skill sets, sometimes you have to take the best player available and try to blend. That being said my first choice is guys with elite defensive potential.

A lot of people here think giving Lance tons of minutes means we are trying to win now. No, its called playing the right way. Lance sucks, but the point is the staff WANTS to sit Lance, but until someone else plays better D he's gonna keep getting burn.

I am bullish on Dotson, but he's primarily a 2. I would love to draft a multi-positional defender. A guy who can defend two's 2-3-4 or a more rugged guy who defend both 4-5. I want a long term piece next to Frank/KP. If I have 3 elite defensive player with length I can add a scorer and a play maker and go from there. Burke might even be one of those parts.

Some NBA guys I would like to add would be Stanley Johnson or Hollis Jefferson for cheap. RHJ will cost a #1 prob in the 20s and a decent player. Johnson would be much cheaper.

Hopefully we see some good changes next week. Fingers crossed. I like the thread. We need a sustainable defensive team.

Ira
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1/31/2018  11:41 AM
Draft Mikal Bridges, a good 2 way player who's a swingman and has a 7 ft wingspan. With Lee getting old and THJ playing out of position, Bridges could help the teams D while contributing on offense.
Knixkik
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1/31/2018  11:48 AM
The main concern is at the wing. We need to get long, athletic wing defenders. Porzingis will provide the rim protection and Ntilikina will provide elite perimeter defense to help slow all of the good PGs in the league. So the foundation of the great defensive team is already there. Adding Bridges or Hutchison will provide an elite athlete and potential wing defender at SF, but we need more than just that. We will also need an athletic backup big. We just need to keep building on what we have and make smart draft picks.
newyorknewyork
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1/31/2018  11:53 AM
Fish, your guy Stanley just dropped 26-10-4-2-1 first game after the trade
fishmike
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1/31/2018  2:20 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:Fish, your guy Stanley just dropped 26-10-4-2-1 first game after the trade
haha... yea I was thinking about a Briggs type thread
Bretrobert1
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1/31/2018  2:53 PM
Here's a team I like to reference in building a championship caliber team. The '04 Pistons. The Knicks aren't going to get to 115 PPG like the Warriors, but they can get to a level of consistency where they're constantly making the playoffs and making runs.

It starts at the top, and Larry Brown was an excellent coach w/ great defensive principles/fundamentals. Gotta instill good fundamentals on both sides of the ball from the get-go. Personnel wise, their core nucleus of players were all around that 24-30 age range. Enough experience in the league to know the ins and outs and young enough to put together a handful of consistent years, still. That team featured 3 All-League type defenders. Billups at the 1, Prince on the wing, and Ben Wallace at the 4/5. They were also incredibly balanced on the offensive side of the ball: Rip was the leading scorer at only 17 PPG. However, those Pistons had 7 players that scored over 9.5 a game. The other thing I really liked: was a floor general of a PG in Billups. Great D, created good, solid possessions on offense and shot close to a league high at the stripe.

Now, on to the Knicks:
Coach: Is Hornacek the guy that can create the environment to consistently have one of the best defenses in the league? Does he and the front office have the mindset on what kinda players that takes and will buy into the system and have those players play hard within the system for 82 games and a playoff run? As someone else posted, it takes a core group that buy within the system, and then you continue to upgrade over time as opportunities present themselves.

Defense: Frank is on his way to being a very good defender. No question there. But, does he have the ability, or is he capable of improving to fill that floor general type role? He's never going to be a 20PPG scorer, but can he turn into the type of 1 that makes everyone around him better? Kristaps, too, is on his way to being an all-league type defender. And he has a really nice offensive game, and should continue to get better. To me, the missing pieces on defense are a long wing and another athletic big. KOQ plays a nice role on D, but I don't think he's going to be the long-term answer. Really like Baker's defense, and I think he's going to continue to improve offensively with time. I don't think he's going to be a starter, ever, but he can play meaningful minutes and add nice depth.

So who would I target? To fill the athletic big, I really like Jaren Jackson of MSU around that 7-10 range in the Draft. As I've posted before, he's very likely to win Big 10 DPOY as a frosh. He's not going to fill it up on offense, but he is very long and athletic and can rebound well. Now about an athletic wing? That's the big question mark that I've been looking for. I'd rather trade/pick up a guy in or nearing his prime that's a 2 way player and can take a lot of scoring pressure off the Unicorn. But yes, as others have posted, I do like Bridges from Nova. But there's going to be growing pains there, IMO. A guy who's game I really like as a future 2 way player that can probably be had for cheap is Josh Hart of the Lakers. He's not the answer for that long wing, but he's really good on D, and could add that Baker type depth. K. Leonard would obviously be the dream scenario, but how do you obtain him w/out breaking up the core group highlighted above. I'll post some more logical players or at least maybe more obtainable later.

IMO the Knicks aren't far off. That athletic big can definitely be found in this draft. Then finding that long 2 way wing is what's left, other than depth.

Question for each of you? Who are some logical 2 way wings that can be had? And is Frank capable of filling that needed role at the 1 in time?

"I love you guys." -Norman Dale
Panos
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1/31/2018  3:17 PM
Bretrobert1 wrote:Here's a team I like to reference in building a championship caliber team. The '04 Pistons. The Knicks aren't going to get to 115 PPG like the Warriors, but they can get to a level of consistency where they're constantly making the playoffs and making runs.

It starts at the top, and Larry Brown was an excellent coach w/ great defensive principles/fundamentals. Gotta instill good fundamentals on both sides of the ball from the get-go. Personnel wise, their core nucleus of players were all around that 24-30 age range. Enough experience in the league to know the ins and outs and young enough to put together a handful of consistent years, still. That team featured 3 All-League type defenders. Billups at the 1, Prince on the wing, and Ben Wallace at the 4/5. They were also incredibly balanced on the offensive side of the ball: Rip was the leading scorer at only 17 PPG. However, those Pistons had 7 players that scored over 9.5 a game. The other thing I really liked: was a floor general of a PG in Billups. Great D, created good, solid possessions on offense and shot close to a league high at the stripe.

Now, on to the Knicks:
Coach: Is Hornacek the guy that can create the environment to consistently have one of the best defenses in the league? Does he and the front office have the mindset on what kinda players that takes and will buy into the system and have those players play hard within the system for 82 games and a playoff run? As someone else posted, it takes a core group that buy within the system, and then you continue to upgrade over time as opportunities present themselves.

Defense: Frank is on his way to being a very good defender. No question there. But, does he have the ability, or is he capable of improving to fill that floor general type role? He's never going to be a 20PPG scorer, but can he turn into the type of 1 that makes everyone around him better? Kristaps, too, is on his way to being an all-league type defender. And he has a really nice offensive game, and should continue to get better. To me, the missing pieces on defense are a long wing and another athletic big. KOQ plays a nice role on D, but I don't think he's going to be the long-term answer. Really like Baker's defense, and I think he's going to continue to improve offensively with time. I don't think he's going to be a starter, ever, but he can play meaningful minutes and add nice depth.

So who would I target? To fill the athletic big, I really like Jaren Jackson of MSU around that 7-10 range in the Draft. As I've posted before, he's very likely to win Big 10 DPOY as a frosh. He's not going to fill it up on offense, but he is very long and athletic and can rebound well. Now about an athletic wing? That's the big question mark that I've been looking for. I'd rather trade/pick up a guy in or nearing his prime that's a 2 way player and can take a lot of scoring pressure off the Unicorn. But yes, as others have posted, I do like Bridges from Nova. But there's going to be growing pains there, IMO. A guy who's game I really like as a future 2 way player that can probably be had for cheap is Josh Hart of the Lakers. He's not the answer for that long wing, but he's really good on D, and could add that Baker type depth. K. Leonard would obviously be the dream scenario, but how do you obtain him w/out breaking up the core group highlighted above. I'll post some more logical players or at least maybe more obtainable later.

IMO the Knicks aren't far off. That athletic big can definitely be found in this draft. Then finding that long 2 way wing is what's left, other than depth.

Question for each of you? Who are some logical 2 way wings that can be had? And is Frank capable of filling that needed role at the 1 in time?


People have been referencing the 2004 Pistons since about... 2005. Why because its the Cinderella story. That a team without an MVP talent can put it all together and take it all. But 13 years have passed and only teams with a bonafide MVP talent, and considerable talented support have won anything since. 2004 was lighting in a bottle. Was it fun? Sure it was, and it would be fun to duplicate. But you ain't beating the Warriors unless you can fill up the basket.

Bretrobert1
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1/31/2018  3:27 PM
Those Pistons teams went to like 5 or 6 straight Eastern Conf Finals and played for 2 titles. Don't think I'd consider that lightning in a bottle.
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Paris907
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1/31/2018  4:37 PM
The deal is is all about defense. Pops and Stevens just get the buy in.
I like Kentavius. I liked Avery but he’s a goner. Robert Williams out of Tx may be solid defensively as would Mamba yet it looks as though we pick 10/12. Perhaps Carter from Duke. The real difference with the 5s today is they’ve to be athletic enough to guard the lane and get up on the opposing 5 when he stretches from 3. Kanter can’t do that.
Paris907
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1/31/2018  4:42 PM
Panos wrote:
Bretrobert1 wrote:Here's a team I like to reference in building a championship caliber team. The '04 Pistons. The Knicks aren't going to get to 115 PPG like the Warriors, but they can get to a level of consistency where they're constantly making the playoffs and making runs.

It starts at the top, and Larry Brown was an excellent coach w/ great defensive principles/fundamentals. Gotta instill good fundamentals on both sides of the ball from the get-go. Personnel wise, their core nucleus of players were all around that 24-30 age range. Enough experience in the league to know the ins and outs and young enough to put together a handful of consistent years, still. That team featured 3 All-League type defenders. Billups at the 1, Prince on the wing, and Ben Wallace at the 4/5. They were also incredibly balanced on the offensive side of the ball: Rip was the leading scorer at only 17 PPG. However, those Pistons had 7 players that scored over 9.5 a game. The other thing I really liked: was a floor general of a PG in Billups. Great D, created good, solid possessions on offense and shot close to a league high at the stripe.

Now, on to the Knicks:
Coach: Is Hornacek the guy that can create the environment to consistently have one of the best defenses in the league? Does he and the front office have the mindset on what kinda players that takes and will buy into the system and have those players play hard within the system for 82 games and a playoff run? As someone else posted, it takes a core group that buy within the system, and then you continue to upgrade over time as opportunities present themselves.

Defense: Frank is on his way to being a very good defender. No question there. But, does he have the ability, or is he capable of improving to fill that floor general type role? He's never going to be a 20PPG scorer, but can he turn into the type of 1 that makes everyone around him better? Kristaps, too, is on his way to being an all-league type defender. And he has a really nice offensive game, and should continue to get better. To me, the missing pieces on defense are a long wing and another athletic big. KOQ plays a nice role on D, but I don't think he's going to be the long-term answer. Really like Baker's defense, and I think he's going to continue to improve offensively with time. I don't think he's going to be a starter, ever, but he can play meaningful minutes and add nice depth.

So who would I target? To fill the athletic big, I really like Jaren Jackson of MSU around that 7-10 range in the Draft. As I've posted before, he's very likely to win Big 10 DPOY as a frosh. He's not going to fill it up on offense, but he is very long and athletic and can rebound well. Now about an athletic wing? That's the big question mark that I've been looking for. I'd rather trade/pick up a guy in or nearing his prime that's a 2 way player and can take a lot of scoring pressure off the Unicorn. But yes, as others have posted, I do like Bridges from Nova. But there's going to be growing pains there, IMO. A guy who's game I really like as a future 2 way player that can probably be had for cheap is Josh Hart of the Lakers. He's not the answer for that long wing, but he's really good on D, and could add that Baker type depth. K. Leonard would obviously be the dream scenario, but how do you obtain him w/out breaking up the core group highlighted above. I'll post some more logical players or at least maybe more obtainable later.

IMO the Knicks aren't far off. That athletic big can definitely be found in this draft. Then finding that long 2 way wing is what's left, other than depth.

Question for each of you? Who are some logical 2 way wings that can be had? And is Frank capable of filling that needed role at the 1 in time?


People have been referencing the 2004 Pistons since about... 2005. Why because its the Cinderella story. That a team without an MVP talent can put it all together and take it all. But 13 years have passed and only teams with a bonafide MVP talent, and considerable talented support have won anything since. 2004 was lighting in a bottle. Was it fun? Sure it was, and it would be fun to duplicate. But you ain't beating the Warriors unless you can fill up the basket.

Nice job and appreciated. I remember Donovon sitting Kanter in the playoffs and believe even the 4th or 5th 5 our ofnthe Draft this year will be solid. Obviously we need a 3 and 2 way 3s are scarce.

Kemet
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1/31/2018  5:05 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/31/2018  5:07 PM
When it comes to defense on the Knicks the only decent career defensive player on the roster are Noah .. Kanter's offense vs Noah's defense?
Do anyone recall the Bulls Noah n Gasol vs OKC Adam n Ibaka (benching Kanter bc of defensive effort).
KP defense is weak, and Kanter defense is weak .. Both players 30 minute of playingtime has a lot to do with the Knicks consistent road losses.
ccch
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1/31/2018  5:57 PM
Bretrobert1 wrote:Celtics and Spurs. The Knicks are currently giving up 105 pts/game, which is right around the league avg. What would you do to continuosly improve this team stat for the Knicks?

Fire Rambis...he's running the D. He's still sitting in the background hoping for another HC gig...that promotes bad Karma.
martin
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1/31/2018  6:48 PM
ccch wrote:
Bretrobert1 wrote:Celtics and Spurs. The Knicks are currently giving up 105 pts/game, which is right around the league avg. What would you do to continuosly improve this team stat for the Knicks?

Fire Rambis...he's running the D. He's still sitting in the background hoping for another HC gig...that promotes bad Karma.

No he isn't. This was covered in preseason.

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Bretrobert1
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2/1/2018  10:18 AM
Mentioned Josh Hart previously in this thread. He was the most impressive 2 way player I saw last year and the year before in college hoops. Listed as 6'5 or 6'6" w/ a 6'8 wingspan, but very physical for his size and has a serious motor. One of the best at drawing contact and finishing at the rim that I've seen in the college game. From what I've read/seen he has great work ethic and is the type of player that's going to give 100% defensive effort at all times.




"I love you guys." -Norman Dale
There are 2 teams giving up less than 100 pts a game..

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