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Continuity might be important here
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BRIGGS
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1/31/2018  12:28 AM
I don't think the Knicks are terrible.
We have quality size some shooters.
Perhaps it's just smart to stay the course with Kanter and Kp as the 5-4-- see if we can add a quality wing player and let the young players develop while utylzing the draft d league and smart free agency
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EnySpree
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1/31/2018  6:37 AM
That's probably what we'll do.... and I'm ok with that. Keep it simple. That still requires a getting a quality wing. We have the chips to trade if anyone is interested.
You know why I'm here....
NYKBocker
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1/31/2018  7:10 AM
That is what I want. We can still trade but I want the core to be KP, Kanter, THJr and Frank. If we get a good offer for KOQ, CLEE or Willy then you take it.
Knixkik
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1/31/2018  7:20 AM
BRIGGS wrote:I don't think the Knicks are terrible.
We have quality size some shooters.
Perhaps it's just smart to stay the course with Kanter and Kp as the 5-4-- see if we can add a quality wing player and let the young players develop while utylzing the draft d league and smart free agency

Exactly right. Glad you're coming around. What if we add a wing like Hutchison and he really pans out? Becomes a playmaker at the wing and athletic defender and slides into that SF slot. You never know.

Paris907
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1/31/2018  8:05 AM
BRIGGS wrote:I don't think the Knicks are terrible.
We have quality size some shooters.
Perhaps it's just smart to stay the course with Kanter and Kp as the 5-4-- see if we can add a quality wing player and let the young players develop while utylzing the draft d league and smart free agency

I appreciate a 20-20 night from Kanter as would any real Knick fan. This is a watershed moment for the ballckub. With Kanter’s value high (and his defensive ratings still miserably low), what better time to ship him out for a veritable two way SF (not Harkless etc)or Kanter and Lee for athleticism and defense which you’ve repeatesly cries out for. If you could get Middleton, or work a deal w Cleveland for the Nets pick and expiring (with Love out two months)why not try. If we are always goin to simply trade baskets, it won’t work. Even Houston (until this year when they added TUCKER and CP3 plus defensively)couldn’t become elite even with all their talent.

I love Kanter. What better time to ship him out.

fishmike
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1/31/2018  8:29 AM
A week ago you thought we sucked and should max out a 33 year old with a bad hip

What changed?

Oh right... nothing.

Kanter looked great last night against an NBA rookie and some guys around 6'8. He's brings some good things. He lacks others.

Paris is right. We arent taking steps without becoming an elite defensive team. Every top team is an elite defensive team. You can hide a Curry or a Harden but you need 3-4 high end defensive players to win big in this league.

Kanter is a nice stop gap player IMO. He could also be a great big off the bench to give you scoring, or a 20-25 minute a night starter. If we can get a more attractive part, even if its future based Knicks should look hard at that.

franco12
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1/31/2018  8:47 AM
fishmike wrote:A week ago you thought we sucked and should max out a 33 year old with a bad hip

What changed?

Oh right... nothing.

Kanter looked great last night against an NBA rookie and some guys around 6'8. He's brings some good things. He lacks others.

Paris is right. We arent taking steps without becoming an elite defensive team. Every top team is an elite defensive team. You can hide a Curry or a Harden but you need 3-4 high end defensive players to win big in this league.

Kanter is a nice stop gap player IMO. He could also be a great big off the bench to give you scoring, or a 20-25 minute a night starter. If we can get a more attractive part, even if its future based Knicks should look hard at that.

his meds kicked in.

Seriously, though, I have seen both points.

If you look at who really is a keeper on the roster - you've got a whole bunch of question marks, including KP. Depending on how you answer those in your head, we could have the start of something that becomes a good club with potential, or the FO is wasting their time and should sell, start over.

Finestrg
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1/31/2018  8:50 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/31/2018  9:28 AM
BRIGGS wrote:I don't think the Knicks are terrible.
We have quality size some shooters.
Perhaps it's just smart to stay the course with Kanter and Kp as the 5-4-- see if we can add a quality wing player and let the young players develop while utylzing the draft d league and smart free agency

I'm a HUGE Kanter guy. I love this dude. Yeah, his defense isn't top notch, he's not really a shot-blocker, but the rest of his game I LOVE. Very good rebounder, EXCELLENT offensive skill set (for the life of me, I can't figure out why the hell we don't look to exploit this and get him the ball much more!! I mean this guy could be a go-to offensive dynamo if we chose to use him that way -- I honestly believe that. We're selling him short and shooting ourselves in the foot here big time) and he's got other really good intangibles (young and will be in his prime throughout his next contract, loves NY/wants to be here, great teammate/has his teammates' back, etc.). I'll understand if we deal him (and my buddy was saying it last night -- I don't want some pick at the end of the 1st round for this guy and that's it -- we gotta get back more than that for him), but I want him to stay if we can make it work.

I think the spot we really need to upgrade is backup big man. I like O'Quinn but have felt for awhile now that we could do better here. If we can get a 1st round pick for this dude (Golden State? Or maybe the Cavs now might be interested with K-Love breaking his hand??), you do that. Followed up by two things: (1) replace him immediately with Christian Wood and/or Brandon Ashley of the G-League and then evaluate). I'd love to get both guys (trade KOQ for the pick and just cut LT -- now he's got the busted finger on his shooting hand and he's still playing?? WTF? LOL.. They LOVE this dude but I just don't see it at all. I mean come on--dude plays hard but he's a SCRUB!! This guy's just not that good, and now he's hurt! I think either G-League guy would be an immense upgrade for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Both give away a little girth compared to O'Quinn but have much better all-around games--I mean it's not even close. Can't believe both of these dudes aren't on an NBA roster. They're more than good enough. I mean just looking at both and what they can do, they're better than KOQ point blank. Not even close. And (2): re-establish Willy in the rotation. That would leave us with the KP/Kanter combo to start, then a Wood/Ashley combo. off the bench (even better rim protection + much better athleticism/all-around play over KOQ), and Willy and his post offense/rebounding back into the fold. I would love for them to look at it like that.

5 - Kanter
4/5 - KP
------------------
5/4 - Hernangomez
4/3 - Christian Wood
4/3 - Brandon Ashley

That's a hell of front court we could put together real quick and real cheap. 2 very good post offense 5s in Kanter and Willy (Kanter could and should be a star in this league -- hugest mystery in the world how the Knicks don't see this), KP's a star and our best player, we'd always have enough rebounding on the floor, 3 legit shot-blockers to cover for Kanter/Hernangomez, incredible length (what front court in the league--big men--could match our length and versatility??), much improved athleticism/all-around play with Wood/Ashley. I think they all fit together and complement each other nicely. Make this happen! Nothing but upside here. If it didn't work, we could change direction super quick, no harm, no foul. The positive effect could be great here however, even higher than what we uncovered with Trey Burke. Cost us nothing to try. AND we'd be adding a 1st round pick for O'Quinn hopefully (I mean seriously, even if we decided to outright cut O'Quinn in favor of these two guys, it'd be a win). No downside here.

Knixkik
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1/31/2018  8:59 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/31/2018  9:01 AM
Paris907 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:I don't think the Knicks are terrible.
We have quality size some shooters.
Perhaps it's just smart to stay the course with Kanter and Kp as the 5-4-- see if we can add a quality wing player and let the young players develop while utylzing the draft d league and smart free agency

I appreciate a 20-20 night from Kanter as would any real Knick fan. This is a watershed moment for the ballckub. With Kanter’s value high (and his defensive ratings still miserably low), what better time to ship him out for a veritable two way SF (not Harkless etc)or Kanter and Lee for athleticism and defense which you’ve repeatesly cries out for. If you could get Middleton, or work a deal w Cleveland for the Nets pick and expiring (with Love out two months)why not try. If we are always goin to simply trade baskets, it won’t work. Even Houston (until this year when they added TUCKER and CP3 plus defensively)couldn’t become elite even with all their talent.

I love Kanter. What better time to ship him out.

Kanter will get 20/20 games from time to time. His value isn't going to drop. People know exactly what he is at this point. He will likely opt into the final year of his deal and we can evaluate long-term fit next season. No need to rush things. Porzingis and Ntilikina should become 2 of the best at their position defensively. So i think we will continue to grow into a good defensive team in time.

fishmike
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1/31/2018  9:13 AM
franco12 wrote:
fishmike wrote:A week ago you thought we sucked and should max out a 33 year old with a bad hip

What changed?

Oh right... nothing.

Kanter looked great last night against an NBA rookie and some guys around 6'8. He's brings some good things. He lacks others.

Paris is right. We arent taking steps without becoming an elite defensive team. Every top team is an elite defensive team. You can hide a Curry or a Harden but you need 3-4 high end defensive players to win big in this league.

Kanter is a nice stop gap player IMO. He could also be a great big off the bench to give you scoring, or a 20-25 minute a night starter. If we can get a more attractive part, even if its future based Knicks should look hard at that.

his meds kicked in.

Seriously, though, I have seen both points.

If you look at who really is a keeper on the roster - you've got a whole bunch of question marks, including KP. Depending on how you answer those in your head, we could have the start of something that becomes a good club with potential, or the FO is wasting their time and should sell, start over.

good teams dont just appear. They are grown. you build a culture of sharing the ball and playing defense like the Spurs do and then you find parts. When better parts come along you upgrade.

First we need to find the guys who will do that. Those are your first keepers. However the talent is going to be limited right? Knicks arent going from 30 wins to 50 wins with better coaching and equal talent that tries really hard. They need better players, but only in the context what they are trying to achieve.

Eventually the hope is the culture and team are bigger than the player(s). Look at Melo and OKC. He's found happiness being the 3rd option. Everyone knows that could never have happened here. We didnt have the culture or talent to support it. OKC has both.

So the first round of keepers are guys who will do that. Kanter is one. His D sucks but the effort is usually there and he's certainly a great team/lockerroom guy. We can get better with Enes playing here. Will we need to upgrade from him to become elite? I think so, but that is NOT the question for this team now, and some people are asking it and they are doing so prematurely.

Briggs always asks that question first, which is why every 2 weeks he's got a new "WE MUST GET" this player fetish.

Knicks need to get good first, if you have watched this year they are on their way. Let make the playoffs and be consistent. That is the next step. The key along the way? Stay flexible and dont hurt your future.

Nalod
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1/31/2018  10:03 AM
if we can play the nets every nite we'd continuously have continuity.
Enes had 5 assists last nite. His last one, a beauty he was point on a fast break. Looked like Joakim on that one!
Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
Knixkik
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1/31/2018  1:35 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/31/2018  1:35 PM
Right now i don't want to see any major changes (obviously without knowing what deals are out there.) I would like to see KOQ moved for a late 1st/early 2nd round pick. Let's say early 2nd. That gives us 4 picks, and a real shot to add a lot of developmental pieces. With the 1st round pick i'm targeting a wing. Either Bridges (Mich St and Nova) or Hutchison, those are my top 3. With the other 3 picks i'll target a PG (Brunson, Shamet, or Holiday) who can develop behind Ntilikina and Burke and spend a lot of time in the GLeague. I'll target an athletic big man with the next pick (Metu or Spalding stand out) and the 3rd pick can be a draft and stash to build up that side of the equation. Maybe KP's fellow Lavian Kurucs, who can train with him in the off-season and develop for a year or 2 overseas. After that, i'll wait for the chips to fall and try to grab a rotation-quality wing on a 1-year contract who wants to try his luck again the next season. McDermott is a goner unless he wants to come back for the QO. Beasley is worth keeping on a team-friendly, multi-year contract. I expect Kanter to opt in.
Otherwise i hope for a quiet deadline and offseason and developing this group and preparing for a possible splash in the 2019 summer. We will get better with continuity and improving chemistry.
Nalod
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1/31/2018  2:17 PM
Knixkik wrote:Right now i don't want to see any major changes (obviously without knowing what deals are out there.) I would like to see KOQ moved for a late 1st/early 2nd round pick. Let's say early 2nd. That gives us 4 picks, and a real shot to add a lot of developmental pieces. With the 1st round pick i'm targeting a wing. Either Bridges (Mich St and Nova) or Hutchison, those are my top 3. With the other 3 picks i'll target a PG (Brunson, Shamet, or Holiday) who can develop behind Ntilikina and Burke and spend a lot of time in the GLeague. I'll target an athletic big man with the next pick (Metu or Spalding stand out) and the 3rd pick can be a draft and stash to build up that side of the equation. Maybe KP's fellow Lavian Kurucs, who can train with him in the off-season and develop for a year or 2 overseas. After that, i'll wait for the chips to fall and try to grab a rotation-quality wing on a 1-year contract who wants to try his luck again the next season. McDermott is a goner unless he wants to come back for the QO. Beasley is worth keeping on a team-friendly, multi-year contract. I expect Kanter to opt in.
Otherwise i hope for a quiet deadline and offseason and developing this group and preparing for a possible splash in the 2019 summer. We will get better with continuity and improving chemistry.

Your being entirely too reasonable!!
Surprised to read so many Deanne Jordan rumors and now Whiteside to Milwaukee!
My feeling is Noah would have many places to play but he has to get bought out. Tough to watch a team first kid of guy be in such conflict over money.
Yep, he wants to play, but he wants his money too. I don't blame him at all. His contract is huge!
KOQ busting this tail for under 5mil!! Willy is smiling and having a good time all the while!
I like seeing Frank play a bit off the ball and can focus a bit on production. Still, he made some nice passes!!

Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
stanleybostitch
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1/31/2018  7:43 PM
I love the inside game that Kanter brings - KP should learn from him. But if we could flip him for the Nets or other high pick then you do it - and we can always resign him when he's still just 27 and we are ready to contend.
Patience with the rebuild, keep all the picks, no starphucks, and team-first attitude. Marinate a couple years and we're playing like the '72 team. Championship here we come!
nyknickzingis
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2/1/2018  1:39 PM
Go on what the advanced stats say

Tim and KP have great results together in pick n roll
Early in the season KP and Frank had great numbers on the floor together.

My continuity is

KP
THj
Frank

Everyone else is expendable or not anyone we should be concerned about keeping.

knicks1248
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2/1/2018  1:49 PM
fishmike wrote:
franco12 wrote:
fishmike wrote:A week ago you thought we sucked and should max out a 33 year old with a bad hip

What changed?

Oh right... nothing.

Kanter looked great last night against an NBA rookie and some guys around 6'8. He's brings some good things. He lacks others.

Paris is right. We arent taking steps without becoming an elite defensive team. Every top team is an elite defensive team. You can hide a Curry or a Harden but you need 3-4 high end defensive players to win big in this league.

Kanter is a nice stop gap player IMO. He could also be a great big off the bench to give you scoring, or a 20-25 minute a night starter. If we can get a more attractive part, even if its future based Knicks should look hard at that.

his meds kicked in.

Seriously, though, I have seen both points.

If you look at who really is a keeper on the roster - you've got a whole bunch of question marks, including KP. Depending on how you answer those in your head, we could have the start of something that becomes a good club with potential, or the FO is wasting their time and should sell, start over.

good teams dont just appear. They are grown. you build a culture of sharing the ball and playing defense like the Spurs do and then you find parts. When better parts come along you upgrade.

First we need to find the guys who will do that. Those are your first keepers. However the talent is going to be limited right? Knicks arent going from 30 wins to 50 wins with better coaching and equal talent that tries really hard. They need better players, but only in the context what they are trying to achieve.

Eventually the hope is the culture and team are bigger than the player(s). Look at Melo and OKC. He's found happiness being the 3rd option. Everyone knows that could never have happened here. We didnt have the culture or talent to support it. OKC has both.

So the first round of keepers are guys who will do that. Kanter is one. His D sucks but the effort is usually there and he's certainly a great team/lockerroom guy. We can get better with Enes playing here. Will we need to upgrade from him to become elite? I think so, but that is NOT the question for this team now, and some people are asking it and they are doing so prematurely.

Briggs always asks that question first, which is why every 2 weeks he's got a new "WE MUST GET" this player fetish.

Knicks need to get good first, if you have watched this year they are on their way. Let make the playoffs and be consistent. That is the next step. The key along the way? Stay flexible and dont hurt your future.

We are going to have to sacrifice a 1st rnd pick, willy, or frank to get better.

ES
martin
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2/1/2018  1:59 PM
knicks1248 wrote:We are going to have to sacrifice a 1st rnd pick, willy, or frank to get better.

This is such an ill-informed statement.

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fishmike
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2/2/2018  3:51 PM
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:We are going to have to sacrifice a 1st rnd pick, willy, or frank to get better.

This is such an ill-informed statement.

pretty much all of them are
Nalod
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2/2/2018  4:37 PM
"Continuity might be important here"

.........But then, it really depends on how the team does that day?

knicks1248 wrote:
We are going to have to sacrifice a 1st rnd pick, willy, or frank to get better.


On many levels...its ignorant.
Today many article imply knicks are not trading the pick or anyone unless a player in return fits our agenda.
That's Mills and Perry agenda. But then aren't we fans got dem good ideas and shyt, right?

Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
CrushAlot
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2/2/2018  5:35 PM
Knixkik wrote:Right now i don't want to see any major changes (obviously without knowing what deals are out there.) I would like to see KOQ moved for a late 1st/early 2nd round pick. Let's say early 2nd. That gives us 4 picks, and a real shot to add a lot of developmental pieces. With the 1st round pick i'm targeting a wing. Either Bridges (Mich St and Nova) or Hutchison, those are my top 3. With the other 3 picks i'll target a PG (Brunson, Shamet, or Holiday) who can develop behind Ntilikina and Burke and spend a lot of time in the GLeague. I'll target an athletic big man with the next pick (Metu or Spalding stand out) and the 3rd pick can be a draft and stash to build up that side of the equation. Maybe KP's fellow Lavian Kurucs, who can train with him in the off-season and develop for a year or 2 overseas. After that, i'll wait for the chips to fall and try to grab a rotation-quality wing on a 1-year contract who wants to try his luck again the next season. McDermott is a goner unless he wants to come back for the QO. Beasley is worth keeping on a team-friendly, multi-year contract. I expect Kanter to opt in.
Otherwise i hope for a quiet deadline and offseason and developing this group and preparing for a possible splash in the 2019 summer. We will get better with continuity and improving chemistry.
I think this is a solid approach. Also, the Knick roster has had so many guys pass through the past few years(though many were not very good) roster continuity would be a move in the right direction. The Knicks finally are in control of their own first round picks. Building through the draft and maintaining a young core seems like the direction the front office wants to follow. ESPN puts out continuity rankings every year and generally the best teams rate the highest for continuity.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
Continuity might be important here

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