newyorknewyork wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:Ok if guys are gonna just IGNORE the visual evidence and not acknowledge the CLEAR DIFFERENCE in sets then there’s no point to ever posting FACTS.

The Majority Of Frank’s sets are NOT clearout type sets designed to create maximum space. Most of his sets are motion sets that require him to wait as they develop. They are not designed for Frank to have MAX space to attack after the screen is set.

Jeff is calling those plays! Jeff decided to OPEN the floor when Burke was playing going with Early Spread PnR. Not slow developing Weaves or any other actions where the other players are bringing their defenders into the PG’s Space. Think about it how often do you remember Frank getting a clear out so he could be the primary option? I invite everyone to look at the plays I posted again and note the INTENTION of each play Burke had vs Frank’s typical plays. TOTALLY DIFFERENT.

lol you are stupid. Frank getting a clear out would be the worst option on any play given his terrible shooting

Lol he isnt talking about a clear out iso ala Jordan in a one on one matchup for a bucket. Its a PNR with shooters stationed near the bottom corners 3s. And a pick set at the top of the 3 for maximum spacing for a possible lane. Typical PG play in todays NBA.

Thanks for understanding what I’ve been trying to point out. Perhaps Jeff was trying something new with Burke that he will also try with Frank but I was noticing all season that Frank’s sets tended to be slow developing and non aggressive from a PG perspective.

There seems to be a misunderstanding about play calls. The PG isn’t supposed to just wing it and break plays just cuz he can. There’s no lanes for Frank to drive on many of the plays Jeff runs with him. Those plays feature more post players and cutters. All the Off Ball Motion causes Frank to wait.

The Burke plays I posted were designed to feature the PG and Screener as the Primary options. The exaggerated spacing helps to give the PG the advantage and forcing help to have to travel a greater distance. That’s the whole point of Spread PnR.

Think about it how often do you remember Frank being in Spread PnR? It’s less than I think he should get. He has to get used to that kind of play. I think Jeff has to almost force Frank into those looks so he has no choice but to look to score and be more aggressive in a play that helps open things up for him. Last year Jeff used Early Spread PnR much more. Especially early in the season.

nixluva wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:Ok if guys are gonna just IGNORE the visual evidence and not acknowledge the CLEAR DIFFERENCE in sets then there’s no point to ever posting FACTS.

The Majority Of Frank’s sets are NOT clearout type sets designed to create maximum space. Most of his sets are motion sets that require him to wait as they develop. They are not designed for Frank to have MAX space to attack after the screen is set.

Jeff is calling those plays! Jeff decided to OPEN the floor when Burke was playing going with Early Spread PnR. Not slow developing Weaves or any other actions where the other players are bringing their defenders into the PG’s Space. Think about it how often do you remember Frank getting a clear out so he could be the primary option? I invite everyone to look at the plays I posted again and note the INTENTION of each play Burke had vs Frank’s typical plays. TOTALLY DIFFERENT.

lol you are stupid. Frank getting a clear out would be the worst option on any play given his terrible shooting

Lol he isnt talking about a clear out iso ala Jordan in a one on one matchup for a bucket. Its a PNR with shooters stationed near the bottom corners 3s. And a pick set at the top of the 3 for maximum spacing for a possible lane. Typical PG play in todays NBA.

Thanks for understanding what I’ve been trying to point out. Perhaps Jeff was trying something new with Burke that he will also try with Frank but I was noticing all season that Frank’s sets tended to be slow developing and non aggressive from a PG perspective.

There seems to be a misunderstanding about play calls. The PG isn’t supposed to just wing it and break plays just cuz he can. There’s no lanes for Frank to drive on many of the plays Jeff runs with him. Those plays feature more post players and cutters. All the Off Ball Motion causes Frank to wait.

The Burke plays I posted were designed to feature the PG and Screener as the Primary options. The exaggerated spacing helps to give the PG the advantage and forcing help to have to travel a greater distance. That’s the whole point of Spread PnR.

Think about it how often do you remember Frank being in Spread PnR? It’s less than I think he should get. He has to get used to that kind of play. I think Jeff has to almost force Frank into those looks so he has no choice but to look to score and be more aggressive in a play that helps open things up for him. Last year Jeff used Early Spread PnR much more. Especially early in the season.

The sets Jeff is running for Frank are for more advanced ball handling and finishing PGs that can pick their spots and attack and weave through traffic whenever they identify an opening. Frank isn't at that level right now.

CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:Frank is a project. I think Horny has went above and beyond by sticking with him this long. He's hit the dreaded rookie wall. While he played against men last year, he also barely played. Send him to the G League, let him work on his game, and pump up his confidence. The entire organization should be thinking about next year now and letting him work on his game and build his confidence would really help the team next year and beyond

Frank's play cratering is on Frank

I agree. Frank has been locked into 20+ minutes a night no matter how he played. The G League used to be the developmental league. Frank needs developing. The coach is supposed to run the same offense as the Knicks. I don't think sending him down would hurt and it might help him improve his game.

I don't mean to pick on you in particular, but is it so easy as putting a guy in the G league for a few game or weeks or a few months and presto he's a different player? How long was THJr in the DLeague?

Tons of examples of guys putting up big numbers in the G league and then doing nothing in the NBA.

What are the pluses and minuses of staying in NBA versus going to G League? No one is doing a cost benefit of this, just send him to the G League.

What about what he would be MISSING in the NBA? Is he not learning on a nightly basis? Is he regressing or just has hit a bit of a slump/wall?

Does the G league coaching staff have MORE time or less time to work with individual players than their NBA counterparts?

What weight/nutrition/practice regimen does the G League team have over the NBA team? How often does the G League team practice versus travel?

Anyone who is a proponent of sending Frank to the G League have any guess on the above? Also, please mention some other players who have gone the same path as the one you are suggesting Frank take and how long they were in the G league.

How many games/weeks of games are you suggesting?

G league may run the same offense and defense but you have a whole new set of players and their individual nuances to consider, so it's not just plug and play.

There is no magic potion here.

I don't know if he will get minutes if he stays on the big team. Also, he has been struggling against nba second units. I think length of time would depend on his progress. The Knicks have done a lot to help him have success. Bringing Jack in was a great move. Jack's rep is that he is a great guy for young players to be around even if he is just on the bench. I think Jack would have been fine stepping aside for Frank or giving up some more minutes to him. At this point in the season there is not a lot of practice time. If Frank isn't getting on the court I am not sure why you would think it would be bad for his development to spend time in the g league. Are there on court benefits to his sitting on the bench because he is in the nba?
In regards to guys that went down and came back up Hardaway is the first that comes to mind and also Burke. The Hawks use their g/d league team to develop players. Muscala has gone back and forth. But there are also guys like Covington, JaMychal Green etc. that are big time players that spent time in the d league. The Rockets used to use their d league team for development. Recently the Wiz have been doing it with the kid from Syracuse that was a Net and Shelden Mac and their back up point is Tim Frazier. In regards to timelines etc., if you want that I think you should do your own research.
Were you against Dotson getting run in Westchester? I can tell you that I watched the fourth quarter of the W Knicks the other night after he had been recalled and the announcers were talking about how much the team missed having Dotson.

How can you start a post with "I don't know if he will get minutes if he stays on the big team." Frank is averaging 20 minutes a game. He is ALREADY getting minutes on the big team.

Your whole premise of Frank going to the G League is predicated on Frank NOT getting minutes in the NBA.

Willy hasn't gotten minutes all year and yet no G League.

When NBA Players can not get run in the big league, then it's a VERY good thing to get them run in G League.

Which players in the NBA who were given a change to get regular minutes went to the G League?

Because his minutes have decreased since Burke became a part of the rotation 5 games ago. He is averaging 14 minutes a game since Burke became part of the rotation. He was up around 25 minutes for a big part of December. I guess a better question might be, do you think Burke's minutes are going to increase? In regards to your question two of those guys are on the Knicks. Not sure what the right move for Frank is but I don't think the d league should be off the table as an option for him to improve. Willy is a pretty unique case. He is the best friend of the best player on the team. Begley said he thought KP would leave if Willy was traded back in October on a podcast. Also, the Knicks maybe looking to trade him. Frank is a part of the long term plans. Willy might not be. The goal is development. Not sure that anything should be off the table with a 19 year old that is struggling if you are thinking he is a part of your team for the next 10 years.

Feel like Frank's his poor performance has dictated his minutes, not Burke's presence on the team. Burke has been on roster a few other games and didn't play when Frank was holding his own.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:Ok if guys are gonna just IGNORE the visual evidence and not acknowledge the CLEAR DIFFERENCE in sets then there’s no point to ever posting FACTS.

The Majority Of Frank’s sets are NOT clearout type sets designed to create maximum space. Most of his sets are motion sets that require him to wait as they develop. They are not designed for Frank to have MAX space to attack after the screen is set.

Jeff is calling those plays! Jeff decided to OPEN the floor when Burke was playing going with Early Spread PnR. Not slow developing Weaves or any other actions where the other players are bringing their defenders into the PG’s Space. Think about it how often do you remember Frank getting a clear out so he could be the primary option? I invite everyone to look at the plays I posted again and note the INTENTION of each play Burke had vs Frank’s typical plays. TOTALLY DIFFERENT.

lol you are stupid. Frank getting a clear out would be the worst option on any play given his terrible shooting

Lol he isnt talking about a clear out iso ala Jordan in a one on one matchup for a bucket. Its a PNR with shooters stationed near the bottom corners 3s. And a pick set at the top of the 3 for maximum spacing for a possible lane. Typical PG play in todays NBA.

Thats not being run because in glimpses of when Frank has been given that play he has been a turnover machine in traffic in the lane

nixluva wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:Ok if guys are gonna just IGNORE the visual evidence and not acknowledge the CLEAR DIFFERENCE in sets then there’s no point to ever posting FACTS.

The Majority Of Frank’s sets are NOT clearout type sets designed to create maximum space. Most of his sets are motion sets that require him to wait as they develop. They are not designed for Frank to have MAX space to attack after the screen is set.

Jeff is calling those plays! Jeff decided to OPEN the floor when Burke was playing going with Early Spread PnR. Not slow developing Weaves or any other actions where the other players are bringing their defenders into the PG’s Space. Think about it how often do you remember Frank getting a clear out so he could be the primary option? I invite everyone to look at the plays I posted again and note the INTENTION of each play Burke had vs Frank’s typical plays. TOTALLY DIFFERENT.

lol you are stupid. Frank getting a clear out would be the worst option on any play given his terrible shooting

Lol he isnt talking about a clear out iso ala Jordan in a one on one matchup for a bucket. Its a PNR with shooters stationed near the bottom corners 3s. And a pick set at the top of the 3 for maximum spacing for a possible lane. Typical PG play in todays NBA.

Thats not being run because in glimpses of when Frank has been given that play he has been a turnover machine in traffic in the lane

What Traffic??? Did you even LOOK at the stills I posted? The entire point of this thread is that the Burke plays were designed with greater spacing and less Off ball motion so that the PG can attack the paint WITHOUT immediately facing any other defenders. There’s a huge gap in space that helps the guard penetrate.

Your stills are not every play. Stop overselling your stills. smh.

nixluva wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:Ok if guys are gonna just IGNORE the visual evidence and not acknowledge the CLEAR DIFFERENCE in sets then there’s no point to ever posting FACTS.

The Majority Of Frank’s sets are NOT clearout type sets designed to create maximum space. Most of his sets are motion sets that require him to wait as they develop. They are not designed for Frank to have MAX space to attack after the screen is set.

Jeff is calling those plays! Jeff decided to OPEN the floor when Burke was playing going with Early Spread PnR. Not slow developing Weaves or any other actions where the other players are bringing their defenders into the PG’s Space. Think about it how often do you remember Frank getting a clear out so he could be the primary option? I invite everyone to look at the plays I posted again and note the INTENTION of each play Burke had vs Frank’s typical plays. TOTALLY DIFFERENT.

lol you are stupid. Frank getting a clear out would be the worst option on any play given his terrible shooting

Lol he isnt talking about a clear out iso ala Jordan in a one on one matchup for a bucket. Its a PNR with shooters stationed near the bottom corners 3s. And a pick set at the top of the 3 for maximum spacing for a possible lane. Typical PG play in todays NBA.

Thats not being run because in glimpses of when Frank has been given that play he has been a turnover machine in traffic in the lane

What Traffic??? Did you even LOOK at the stills I posted? The entire point of this thread is that the Burke plays were designed with greater spacing and less Off ball motion so that the PG can attack the paint WITHOUT immediately facing any other defenders. There’s a huge gap in space that helps the guard penetrate.

Your stills are not every play. Stop overselling your stills. smh.

SIGH! I know that and i've stated that they weren't. What don't you get about the idea of trying something to help Frank succeed. It's going to take time for Frank to make the mental transition from being apprehensive to being more aggressive. We just want to aid him in gaining that confidence.

Saw some good things in the Nets game that were clear efforts to put Frank in a scoring position. He was OK, but needs to get rid of that hesitancy. When he hesitates he loses that moment when he is clear to score. We saw a couple of those tonight where Frank is right there and still passed it up. This will take time, but I like what I saw tonight.

no one is saying he shouldn't be given a chance to develop...but not with the A-team...with the B-team in the G-League