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Wally on Frank and the emergence of Trey Burke
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OldFan
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1/29/2018  2:36 PM
EnySpree wrote:
OldFan wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Is Utah crying about not developing Trey Burke? Any fans in Utah saying i told you so..... we should have kept him..... he was a #8 pick we should have gave him a chance to develop...

No!

Time moves on

Kanter was a high pick.... they got rid of him and moved on...

They have Gobert and Donavan Mitchell... Ricky Rubio... clearly time moves on.

Yes, time moves on and most fans have a clock that moves much to fast. When you draft a player you don't know how quickly he will develop, but I doubt anyone expected him to be a finished product in a 1/2 year. I would love it if he was developing faster - but it's hardly surprising he's taking time.

I think it's way too soon to give up on him. Likely they'll have a plan for what he should work on in the offseason. For now, he's playing enough to get valuable experience against NBA players and in the long run I think that will do him good.

Seems most fans want us to develop players - but have no patience when it comes to actually doing it.

Frank played 50 games our so.... he hit the wall. Nothing urgent going on.... he has flaws in his game that needs to be addressed. Dotson is in the g league and nobody ats as eye. Dotson proved he brings in the league. He's too far on the depth chart so he's getting minutes in Westchester. Frank can't get in the paint, he gives up his dribble too soon, he won't shoot it even even we need him to. He needs to go down to the g league and get himself tuned up. He's not going to fix that playing in the nba. The drop in talent in the g league could help his game. Nothing wrong with that. Send him for a few weeks and then call him back. Nothing out of the ordinary with doing this.... it definately doesn't mean we gave up on him or are impatient. It's called developing your player

I think a case can be made for sending him down, but I think you can argue the other way too. Yes, some players have developed by sending them down - but plenty of players have developed playing in the NBA also. If he was not getting minutes I think the case for sending him down would be stronger.

In a lesser league, a player can easily develop skills that work against lesser talent but fail in the NBA. Look at how many good college players find out their game does not work against the superior talent in the NBA. If the team decides to send him down I won't complain, but I think a good case for keeping him where he is.

I think sometimes there is no quick fix and fans assume no matter what is being done something else will work better.

AUTOADVERT
technomaster
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1/29/2018  3:02 PM
Frank will get better, unless he doesn't.

It's still early with Burke, but at the moment he looks like the best PG on the Knicks.

Taking a step back, (forgetting about Ntilikina for a moment) if we entered free agency looking to sign a PG and you had these 3 choices: Jack (coming off 2 injury plagued years), Sessions (journeyman), Burke (former lottery pick, all-rookie team, screwed developmentally by UTAH just like Kanter), you're probably going to pick Burke to run your team.

So, not surprisingly Burke has looked like the best PG on the Knicks.

I think a more ideal scenario for the Knicks would have had Ntilikina or Baker having a strong summer league and emerging from camp briming with ****y confidence and earning the starting PG spot. But both guys were hurt at inopportune times and basically started the season a little behind schedule.


Going into year two of Ntilikina, we have the same hopes as year one. Show development during summer league, enter training camp competing for a starting job, be more consistent over the course of the season.

Kevin Dolorico | "That was two, two from the heart." - John Starks
fwk00
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1/29/2018  3:13 PM
Nalod wrote:-snip-

So basically I'd shop Jack for a 2nd round pick and if none waive him. Let him go compete for a chip in his twilight.
I'd start Burke and then bring Frank off the bench.
Trade Lee, start them both.
Is KP happy not making playoffs? He should be ok, he has emerged as an allstar first option and if he finishes with 70 games played I'd say that's a good year. Its an adjustment to be in his role as "the man". THjr also big bump up in status given contract and responsibility.
Let Dotson play the 2. Lets move forward. IM not saying "tank", im saying develop and take our lumps.

This is very close to my take as well. Shop Jack. look he's having a great year and [TWO} a number of contending teams have lost key guards. Jack's value will never be higher. That said, the return needs to be selective and that's not easy. Could he and a second-rounder fetch a Jeremy Grant from OKC? Dillon Brooks from Memphis? Wesley Iwundu from Orlando? IMO, that's the kind of trade I'd be looking to make.

Similarly with CLee. A late first round pick would work nicely. Or, could CLee and Thomas get you Crowder, Osman, and Frye (who you cut)? I could live with either scenario.

One aspect of the Frankie/G-League debate that makes no sense is this idea that the Knicks, at the NBA level, have something more important to be doing that ensuring this kid is on the fast track to becoming the franchise PG.

If Jack and CLee were successfully traded, I do not think the Knicks would roll far from where they are headed today. The Knicks are plenty deep in look-alike players that this is fairly obvious.

I do think, however, that Dotson is being highly over-rated in fan appraisals. He too has a future but he ain't all that yet either.

Nalod
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1/29/2018  3:47 PM

I read somewhere that sending Frank to gleague and the the word "humble" used.
Why is this? Does the kid appear to be full of himself? why are we not lobbying to send Wily down and let him get his licks there?
I read Willy came in a bit full of himself over the summer.
THjr was "Humbled" by his demotion but its was his defining moment that he "was not all that" to which he fancied himself and had not put in the work on his body to sustain what a top tier player does. His father, an NBA coach might have finally gotten thru to him as well.
Frank contributes in other ways besides shot selection. Im not aware he needs to be "humbled".
Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
meloshouldgo
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1/29/2018  7:35 PM
Nalod wrote:A good announcer will describe what they see and add more than we know. I respect Wally's take.
His audience is angry as the losses pile up and he speaks to the obvious. Naturally there are many views and true, some of us have no imagination as some do think Frank will be who he is now and always. This will be debated daily.

So basically I'd shop Jack for a 2nd round pick and if none waive him. Let him go compete for a chip in his twilight.
I'd start Burke and then bring Frank off the bench.
Trade Lee, start them both.
Is KP happy not making playoffs? He should be ok, he has emerged as an allstar first option and if he finishes with 70 games played I'd say that's a good year. Its an adjustment to be in his role as "the man". THjr also big bump up in status given contract and responsibility.
Let Dotson play the 2. Lets move forward. IM not saying "tank", im saying develop and take our lumps.

A guy plays two good games after sucking for the first three years of his career and you would make him the starter going forward?

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
Nalod
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1/29/2018  9:31 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
Nalod wrote:A good announcer will describe what they see and add more than we know. I respect Wally's take.
His audience is angry as the losses pile up and he speaks to the obvious. Naturally there are many views and true, some of us have no imagination as some do think Frank will be who he is now and always. This will be debated daily.

So basically I'd shop Jack for a 2nd round pick and if none waive him. Let him go compete for a chip in his twilight.
I'd start Burke and then bring Frank off the bench.
Trade Lee, start them both.
Is KP happy not making playoffs? He should be ok, he has emerged as an allstar first option and if he finishes with 70 games played I'd say that's a good year. Its an adjustment to be in his role as "the man". THjr also big bump up in status given contract and responsibility.
Let Dotson play the 2. Lets move forward. IM not saying "tank", im saying develop and take our lumps.

A guy plays two good games after sucking for the first three years of his career and you would make him the starter going forward?

Yep. Cuz if it don’t work I start Frank.
I’m playing the kids.

Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
meloshouldgo
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1/30/2018  7:23 PM
Nalod wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Nalod wrote:A good announcer will describe what they see and add more than we know. I respect Wally's take.
His audience is angry as the losses pile up and he speaks to the obvious. Naturally there are many views and true, some of us have no imagination as some do think Frank will be who he is now and always. This will be debated daily.

So basically I'd shop Jack for a 2nd round pick and if none waive him. Let him go compete for a chip in his twilight.
I'd start Burke and then bring Frank off the bench.
Trade Lee, start them both.
Is KP happy not making playoffs? He should be ok, he has emerged as an allstar first option and if he finishes with 70 games played I'd say that's a good year. Its an adjustment to be in his role as "the man". THjr also big bump up in status given contract and responsibility.
Let Dotson play the 2. Lets move forward. IM not saying "tank", im saying develop and take our lumps.

A guy plays two good games after sucking for the first three years of his career and you would make him the starter going forward?

Yep. Cuz if it don’t work I start Frank.
I’m playing the kids.

I am all for playing the kids and I don't cater to this making a "playoff push" bull**** - because we would get our ass handed to us - we can't even beat the pistons!
But I am not going to start Burke because he had two good games and expect Frank to "earn" his starting job. I hate that type of hypocrisy.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
Nalod
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1/31/2018  9:01 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:
Nalod wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Nalod wrote:A good announcer will describe what they see and add more than we know. I respect Wally's take.
His audience is angry as the losses pile up and he speaks to the obvious. Naturally there are many views and true, some of us have no imagination as some do think Frank will be who he is now and always. This will be debated daily.

So basically I'd shop Jack for a 2nd round pick and if none waive him. Let him go compete for a chip in his twilight.
I'd start Burke and then bring Frank off the bench.
Trade Lee, start them both.
Is KP happy not making playoffs? He should be ok, he has emerged as an allstar first option and if he finishes with 70 games played I'd say that's a good year. Its an adjustment to be in his role as "the man". THjr also big bump up in status given contract and responsibility.
Let Dotson play the 2. Lets move forward. IM not saying "tank", im saying develop and take our lumps.

A guy plays two good games after sucking for the first three years of his career and you would make him the starter going forward?

Yep. Cuz if it don’t work I start Frank.
I’m playing the kids.

I am all for playing the kids and I don't cater to this making a "playoff push" bull**** - because we would get our ass handed to us - we can't even beat the pistons!
But I am not going to start Burke because he had two good games and expect Frank to "earn" his starting job. I hate that type of hypocrisy.


The process of a 41 win season and making the playoffs is a first step. Fear of getting swept is not what we should be afraid of.
The gains of a "winning" record is more important. The close games won in the process is invaluable.
If not, we don't make it.
If Jack is fading and Frank needs to play off the ball then a 25 year old Burke is ok with me. Im not saying he is the future.

Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
Wally on Frank and the emergence of Trey Burke

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