HofstraBBall wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Saw the first half which Frank played well. Then switch over for the 2nd half of the Pats-Jags game. I am guessing Frank sucked really bad in the 2nd half.

On the Knicks roster they have Burke, Beasley, Mcdermott, Kanter. All of them were lotto picks drafted for their offensive capabilities who have developed into nothing more than role players in the NBA. Who are all on the team which is struggling right now.

So lets not make it like offensive talent is a sure fire hit. Read Paul George scouting report and he was viewed as a 3 & D G/F who couldn't create his own shot lacking offensive creativity. Watch Donovan Mitchell's Draft express scouting report and he was said to be weak at finishing in the paint, settled on to many low efficient jump shots, not really a PG. He wasn't viewed as an offensive dynamo. There are also plenty of rookies who struggled only to go on to have very good careers. Plenty of rookies who had very good rookie seasons then fell off the map(Brandon Jennings also an offensive lotto pick who played for the Knicks. No longer in the NBA).

Its way to early to come to any real conclusions or to start pushing agendas. Frank was drafted to be a 2 way PG with elite size. The goal is to get him to that level over his rookie contract.

excellent post. Ive noticed the people who think frank is the bust are the ones who despise phil so that explains a lot. Im happy with frank. His defense and passing is really getting me excited. Obviously his offense is coming along slower but thats ok. He is still a young kid and with more experience he wont be as hesitant and the buckets will come. He has already shown he can hit big shots

True. I notice the guys that excuse every bad game Frank has and keep insisting he was a solid 8 pick are the ones that also thought the Phil and the Triangle had long term potential here.

i NEVER liked the triangle and i also felt phil had to go along with Melo. However i like Frank no matter who picked him. Im not saying he isnt raw he definetly is but i think he is gonna be a good two way player for us. His defense and passing is already been real good. Truthfully i dont think he is ever gonna be a bigtime scorer but that doesnt mean he wont contribute on offense. Kid is 19 it will take some time

Your missing the point. No one is saying the kid should be vanished or is not a decent player with some potential. The argument from me has always been that he was not and has not played like a true lottery pick. This is a fact thus far. IF he continues to play like this in years to come then he was a miss at 8. Fact.

Juliano wrote:

Marv wrote:Kris Dunn 22 yo rookie 3.8 ppg on 38% fg (29% 3's) w/ 2.4 apg

Chauncey Billups 21 yo rookie 11.2 ppg on 37% fg (33% 3's) w/ 3.9 apg

Derek Harper 22 yo rookie 5.7 ppg on 44% fg (12% 3's) w/ 2.9 apg

Dennis Johnson 22 yo rookie 9.2 ppg 50% fg (42% the next year) w/17% on 3's for career ( no 3's his 1st year) w 1.5 apg

Frank Ntilikina 19 yo rookie 5.3 ppg on 35% fg% (31% 3's) w 3.1 apg

Dennis Schröder 20 yo rookie from Europe 3.73 ppg on 38.3% fg (23.8% 3's) w/ 1.9 apg
Giannis Antetokounmpo 19 yo rookie from Europe 6.8 ppg on 41.4%ft (34.7% 3's) w/ 1.9 apg

Frank may be a bust, he may develop into an all star, or just be a solid rotation player. At this point everything is open and for someone to claim they can foresee what the outcome will be is like flippin' a coin.

No matter how fast the other team plays, you will see frank walking the ball up court 90% of the time, because that's what he see from jack and the rest of the roster

Why would the knicks look at a 19 yr old kid struggling to keep pace with the NBA and not send him down. That poor development

Dennis Schröder was on a playoff team with teague and shelvin mack ahead of him, he played just 13 garbage minutes in 49 games, and he still took twice as many shots as frank is on pace to take. Dennis second yr he avg 19 mins(franks avg almost 21 minutes now) and scored 10+

knicks1248 wrote:

Juliano wrote:

Marv wrote:Kris Dunn 22 yo rookie 3.8 ppg on 38% fg (29% 3's) w/ 2.4 apg

Chauncey Billups 21 yo rookie 11.2 ppg on 37% fg (33% 3's) w/ 3.9 apg

Derek Harper 22 yo rookie 5.7 ppg on 44% fg (12% 3's) w/ 2.9 apg

Dennis Johnson 22 yo rookie 9.2 ppg 50% fg (42% the next year) w/17% on 3's for career ( no 3's his 1st year) w 1.5 apg

Frank Ntilikina 19 yo rookie 5.3 ppg on 35% fg% (31% 3's) w 3.1 apg

Dennis Schröder 20 yo rookie from Europe 3.73 ppg on 38.3% fg (23.8% 3's) w/ 1.9 apg
Giannis Antetokounmpo 19 yo rookie from Europe 6.8 ppg on 41.4%ft (34.7% 3's) w/ 1.9 apg

Frank may be a bust, he may develop into an all star, or just be a solid rotation player. At this point everything is open and for someone to claim they can foresee what the outcome will be is like flippin' a coin.

No matter how fast the other team plays, you will see frank walking the ball up court 90% of the time, because that's what he see from jack and the rest of the roster

Why would the knicks look at a 19 yr old kid struggling to keep pace with the NBA and not send him down. That poor development

Dennis Schröder was on a playoff team with teague and shelvin mack ahead of him, he played just 13 garbage minutes in 49 games, and he still took twice as many shots as frank is on pace to take. Dennis second yr he avg 19 mins(franks avg almost 21 minutes now) and scored 10+

Because you seem to know, please tell me the pluses and minuses of sending someone down to the G league. What are the benefits, what does he lose while not playing in the regular NBA league?

How many games? How many weeks?

What weight training, nutrition training and life training does he MISS because he is not with his NBA coaches? Also, how much do you know about the G League and what teams do on a regular basis? How much playing time versus practice time will he be playing in? Or is it just send him down on game days? If so, home or away or both? If just home, please find the games that would fit into the schedule.

This is not a video game, it's real.

Cartman718 wrote:yes, but one has been sent to the G League...one needs to be.

Your opinion, not a fact, and there's a coaching staff that don't seem to agree with you as well. My feeling is that he should only be sent to the G league if a streak of poor games affects his confidence so much that he needs a break. If not, let him make mistakes and learn from them, let him adjust to the big league.

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Juliano wrote:

Marv wrote:Kris Dunn 22 yo rookie 3.8 ppg on 38% fg (29% 3's) w/ 2.4 apg

Chauncey Billups 21 yo rookie 11.2 ppg on 37% fg (33% 3's) w/ 3.9 apg

Derek Harper 22 yo rookie 5.7 ppg on 44% fg (12% 3's) w/ 2.9 apg

Dennis Johnson 22 yo rookie 9.2 ppg 50% fg (42% the next year) w/17% on 3's for career ( no 3's his 1st year) w 1.5 apg

Frank Ntilikina 19 yo rookie 5.3 ppg on 35% fg% (31% 3's) w 3.1 apg

Dennis Schröder 20 yo rookie from Europe 3.73 ppg on 38.3% fg (23.8% 3's) w/ 1.9 apg
Giannis Antetokounmpo 19 yo rookie from Europe 6.8 ppg on 41.4%ft (34.7% 3's) w/ 1.9 apg

Frank may be a bust, he may develop into an all star, or just be a solid rotation player. At this point everything is open and for someone to claim they can foresee what the outcome will be is like flippin' a coin.

No matter how fast the other team plays, you will see frank walking the ball up court 90% of the time, because that's what he see from jack and the rest of the roster

Why would the knicks look at a 19 yr old kid struggling to keep pace with the NBA and not send him down. That poor development

Dennis Schröder was on a playoff team with teague and shelvin mack ahead of him, he played just 13 garbage minutes in 49 games, and he still took twice as many shots as frank is on pace to take. Dennis second yr he avg 19 mins(franks avg almost 21 minutes now) and scored 10+

YOu do realize that if the coaches want him to bring the ball up faster he will?
You realize there are coaches to handle this, right?

Are you kidding me, I don't know how times JH is waving his hands to push push the pace, how many times have breen and walt mention that. Frank walks the ball up because he waits for the team to get in place so he can run the play, and that's expected from a 19 yr old.

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Juliano wrote:

Marv wrote:Kris Dunn 22 yo rookie 3.8 ppg on 38% fg (29% 3's) w/ 2.4 apg

Chauncey Billups 21 yo rookie 11.2 ppg on 37% fg (33% 3's) w/ 3.9 apg

Derek Harper 22 yo rookie 5.7 ppg on 44% fg (12% 3's) w/ 2.9 apg

Dennis Johnson 22 yo rookie 9.2 ppg 50% fg (42% the next year) w/17% on 3's for career ( no 3's his 1st year) w 1.5 apg

Frank Ntilikina 19 yo rookie 5.3 ppg on 35% fg% (31% 3's) w 3.1 apg

Dennis Schröder 20 yo rookie from Europe 3.73 ppg on 38.3% fg (23.8% 3's) w/ 1.9 apg
Giannis Antetokounmpo 19 yo rookie from Europe 6.8 ppg on 41.4%ft (34.7% 3's) w/ 1.9 apg

Frank may be a bust, he may develop into an all star, or just be a solid rotation player. At this point everything is open and for someone to claim they can foresee what the outcome will be is like flippin' a coin.

No matter how fast the other team plays, you will see frank walking the ball up court 90% of the time, because that's what he see from jack and the rest of the roster

Why would the knicks look at a 19 yr old kid struggling to keep pace with the NBA and not send him down. That poor development

Dennis Schröder was on a playoff team with teague and shelvin mack ahead of him, he played just 13 garbage minutes in 49 games, and he still took twice as many shots as frank is on pace to take. Dennis second yr he avg 19 mins(franks avg almost 21 minutes now) and scored 10+

Because you seem to know, please tell me the pluses and minuses of sending someone down to the G league. What are the benefits, what does he lose while not playing in the regular NBA league?

How many games? How many weeks?

What weight training, nutrition training and life training does he MISS because he is not with his NBA coaches? Also, how much do you know about the G League and what teams do on a regular basis? How much playing time versus practice time will he be playing in? Or is it just send him down on game days? If so, home or away or both? If just home, please find the games that would fit into the schedule.

This is not a video game, it's real.

Do you take your 12 yr old and put them in 12th grade and say to them just keeping trying no matter how many times you fail or get left back. There's steps and levels when you develop.

The whole purpose of the G- league is for guys like frank. You don't sit bret favre (and i have been a die hard packer fan for 25 yrs) because you have aaron rodgers "with so much potential" Aaron rodgers will be the first to admit how much he learned by just watching bret over the yrs.

Frank has already proven he has some potential but can not play at this level consistently by any stretch of the imagination.

He's 19, there's no rush, lets bring him along slowly. In the mean while, you just signed burke who has more experience, plays at a pace JH prefers, and he's way more aggressive offensively, not to mention your trying to win some damn games to give the rest of the roster some damn confidence.

It's so funny to here JH said it's not about wins and losses. THAT is the worst message to deliver to a team, because YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME, you don't just play to be playing. When ever there'e no consequences or repercussions for mistakes, your just going to keep on doing the same sht

nixluva wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Juliano wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:yes, but one has been sent to the G League...one needs to be.

Your opinion, not a fact, and there's a coaching staff that don't seem to agree with you as well. My feeling is that he should only be sent to the G league if a streak of poor games affects his confidence so much that he needs a break. If not, let him make mistakes and learn from them, let him adjust to the big league.

I get the notion for sending Frank down to the G-League for his specific case. All with the game plan of featuring him as the to go to guy and build up that element of his game. In his circumstance there is logic with that.

But until the coaches deem that necessary...

Whats holding him back isn't ability but more so confidence and aggressiveness. If he were to go down to G-League and ball out doesn't necessarily mean that when he goes back to playing with the veterans of an NBA roster that he won't go back to deferring. He will ball more when he looks at himself as somewhat of a vet himself.

Agreed! Frank has more of a Rondo mentality. He LOVES to pass. He’s always going to lean that way. Lebron was also like that and still doesn’t have a scorers mentality. Frank will NEVER be a DSJ or DM style player. He can however improve his offense and become more balanced. Just needs more than half a rookie season to get there.

He needs 3 to4 yrs to get close to there, so i guess the idea is to sacrifice wins for franks development.

Enough losses will result in a change of management and coaching staff anyway, then some other schmuck comes in and decides frank and half the roster are all part of a losing culture and wants to make changes. HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU SEEN THAT MOVIE IN IMG..

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Juliano wrote:

Marv wrote:Kris Dunn 22 yo rookie 3.8 ppg on 38% fg (29% 3's) w/ 2.4 apg

Chauncey Billups 21 yo rookie 11.2 ppg on 37% fg (33% 3's) w/ 3.9 apg

Derek Harper 22 yo rookie 5.7 ppg on 44% fg (12% 3's) w/ 2.9 apg

Dennis Johnson 22 yo rookie 9.2 ppg 50% fg (42% the next year) w/17% on 3's for career ( no 3's his 1st year) w 1.5 apg

Frank Ntilikina 19 yo rookie 5.3 ppg on 35% fg% (31% 3's) w 3.1 apg

Dennis Schröder 20 yo rookie from Europe 3.73 ppg on 38.3% fg (23.8% 3's) w/ 1.9 apg
Giannis Antetokounmpo 19 yo rookie from Europe 6.8 ppg on 41.4%ft (34.7% 3's) w/ 1.9 apg

Frank may be a bust, he may develop into an all star, or just be a solid rotation player. At this point everything is open and for someone to claim they can foresee what the outcome will be is like flippin' a coin.

No matter how fast the other team plays, you will see frank walking the ball up court 90% of the time, because that's what he see from jack and the rest of the roster

Why would the knicks look at a 19 yr old kid struggling to keep pace with the NBA and not send him down. That poor development

Dennis Schröder was on a playoff team with teague and shelvin mack ahead of him, he played just 13 garbage minutes in 49 games, and he still took twice as many shots as frank is on pace to take. Dennis second yr he avg 19 mins(franks avg almost 21 minutes now) and scored 10+

Because you seem to know, please tell me the pluses and minuses of sending someone down to the G league. What are the benefits, what does he lose while not playing in the regular NBA league?

How many games? How many weeks?

What weight training, nutrition training and life training does he MISS because he is not with his NBA coaches? Also, how much do you know about the G League and what teams do on a regular basis? How much playing time versus practice time will he be playing in? Or is it just send him down on game days? If so, home or away or both? If just home, please find the games that would fit into the schedule.

This is not a video game, it's real.

Do you take your 12 yr old and put them in 12th grade and say to them just keeping trying no matter how many times you fail or get left back. There's steps and levels when you develop.

The whole purpose of the G- league is for guys like frank. You don't sit bret favre (and i have been a die hard packer fan for 25 yrs) because you have aaron rodgers "with so much potential" Aaron rodgers will be the first to admit how much he learned by just watching bret over the yrs.

Frank has already proven he has some potential but can not play at this level consistently by any stretch of the imagination.

He's 19, there's no rush, lets bring him along slowly. In the mean while, you just signed burke who has more experience, plays at a pace JH prefers, and he's way more aggressive offensively, not to mention your trying to win some damn games to give the rest of the roster some damn confidence.

It's so funny to here JH said it's not about wins and losses. THAT is the worst message to deliver to a team, because YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME, you don't just play to be playing. When ever there'e no consequences or repercussions for mistakes, your just going to keep on doing the same sht

That's pretty much 95% of the rookie class.

Under what circumstances do you send a pick to the G league that would benefit EVERYONE? And at what cost to the player's current development on the team? What are the costs and benefits? You still have not addressed that.

Frank is getting minutes. Some nights he is on, some off. Feel like he's had 1 really bad defensive game the entire year.

IMHO, the more time he has in the NBA and with KP in particular, the better. If he wasn't getting ANY minutes, that is the sweetspot to send someone down.

It's weird to me that for all of the Frank calls to go to the G League, there is not a similar and simultaneous call for Willy as well.

Also, I think Frank is our best PG defender on the team, so sending him away will also hurt our defense slightly.

It's a tricky thing to do with a young rookie. You never know if it will help or hurt him.

Frank is an international system guy and not an iso American style guard....So you can't compare oranges and apples because he's a different player. Can't use the traditional stat method to determine his success. His impact doesn't always show on paper.

I think he will improve over time. But first everybody needs to understand what type of player Frank is. Once you understand that, you will see he's not behind at all....He's doing exactly what the scouts said he would do. He's playing like he played overseas. We can't expect a 19 yr old to come in and magically change 4 yrs of his pro basketball style to emulate American basketball players in 3 months. That's not realistic.

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Juliano wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:yes, but one has been sent to the G League...one needs to be.

Your opinion, not a fact, and there's a coaching staff that don't seem to agree with you as well. My feeling is that he should only be sent to the G league if a streak of poor games affects his confidence so much that he needs a break. If not, let him make mistakes and learn from them, let him adjust to the big league.

I get the notion for sending Frank down to the G-League for his specific case. All with the game plan of featuring him as the to go to guy and build up that element of his game. In his circumstance there is logic with that.

But until the coaches deem that necessary...

Whats holding him back isn't ability but more so confidence and aggressiveness. If he were to go down to G-League and ball out doesn't necessarily mean that when he goes back to playing with the veterans of an NBA roster that he won't go back to deferring. He will ball more when he looks at himself as somewhat of a vet himself.

Agreed! Frank has more of a Rondo mentality. He LOVES to pass. He’s always going to lean that way. Lebron was also like that and still doesn’t have a scorers mentality. Frank will NEVER be a DSJ or DM style player. He can however improve his offense and become more balanced. Just needs more than half a rookie season to get there.

He needs 3 to4 yrs to get close to there, so i guess the idea is to sacrifice wins for franks development.

Enough losses will result in a change of management and coaching staff anyway, then some other schmuck comes in and decides frank and half the roster are all part of a losing culture and wants to make changes. HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU SEEN THAT MOVIE IN IMG..

For the Knicks, most changes in management and coaching has had to do with pressure built from failed attempts at trying to win now. Built up flawed win now rosters that coaches couldn't figure out how to get over the hump. Management who traded future draft picks and overpaid free agents and taking on ugly long term contracts building flawed failed rosters.

Last coach we had under any type of development period was MDA. And he was only let go/quit after we acquired Melo and the pressure to win was there. His job was never in jeopardy the seasons before that when we were in the lottery.

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Juliano wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:yes, but one has been sent to the G League...one needs to be.

Your opinion, not a fact, and there's a coaching staff that don't seem to agree with you as well. My feeling is that he should only be sent to the G league if a streak of poor games affects his confidence so much that he needs a break. If not, let him make mistakes and learn from them, let him adjust to the big league.

I get the notion for sending Frank down to the G-League for his specific case. All with the game plan of featuring him as the to go to guy and build up that element of his game. In his circumstance there is logic with that.

But until the coaches deem that necessary...

Whats holding him back isn't ability but more so confidence and aggressiveness. If he were to go down to G-League and ball out doesn't necessarily mean that when he goes back to playing with the veterans of an NBA roster that he won't go back to deferring. He will ball more when he looks at himself as somewhat of a vet himself.

Agreed! Frank has more of a Rondo mentality. He LOVES to pass. He’s always going to lean that way. Lebron was also like that and still doesn’t have a scorers mentality. Frank will NEVER be a DSJ or DM style player. He can however improve his offense and become more balanced. Just needs more than half a rookie season to get there.

He needs 3 to4 yrs to get close to there, so i guess the idea is to sacrifice wins for franks development.

Enough losses will result in a change of management and coaching staff anyway, then some other schmuck comes in and decides frank and half the roster are all part of a losing culture and wants to make changes. HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU SEEN THAT MOVIE IN IMG..

For the Knicks, most changes in management and coaching has had to do with pressure built from failed attempts at trying to win now. Built up flawed win now rosters that coaches couldn't figure out how to get over the hump. Management who traded future draft picks and overpaid free agents and taking on ugly long term contracts building flawed failed rosters.

Last coach we had under any type of development period was MDA. And he was only let go/quit after we acquired Melo and the pressure to win was there. His job was never in jeopardy the seasons before that when we were in the lottery.

we have a flawed roster now, with 5 centers, slow pgs, and no true sf. Obviously most of the players were inherited, but they did nothing to balance out the roster, they just made it worse by acquiring more centers, the lack of a starting caliber pg, and we acquired a sf (mcdermott) nuff said.

would it hurt to acquire the likes of bledsoe or kemba, is that starphukng, or is that establishing a position on the roster the is severely lacking in talent. Those guys have 1 or 2 yrs left on their contracts, moderate contracts to boot, it's not like your getting a noah type contract and production .