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I know Ntilikina is only 19 but...
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buddapaw
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1/21/2018  5:44 PM
Even though Frank is a PG, he needs to understand that he can and should score too to keep the defense honest. He is way too tentative with his shot.
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nixluva
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1/21/2018  6:17 PM
buddapaw wrote:Even though Frank is a PG, he needs to understand that he can and should score too to keep the defense honest. He is way too tentative with his shot.

ROOKIE! He’s got plenty of time to develop his game.

blkexec
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1/21/2018  6:36 PM
nixluva wrote:
buddapaw wrote:Even though Frank is a PG, he needs to understand that he can and should score too to keep the defense honest. He is way too tentative with his shot.

ROOKIE! He’s got plenty of time to develop his game.

I don't think his offensive game will change too much. His confidence will grow and he will get stronger. But he's unselfish by default, 2 way, defensive guard (I told yall we have similar games). I personally think he was picked too high, but regardless where he was picked, he's going to be the same player. unselfish.....defensive guard....Skilled enough to be a starter on a championship team. Or a solid guard off the bench. Nothing wrong with that.

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HofstraBBall
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1/21/2018  6:43 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/21/2018  6:44 PM
nixluva wrote:
buddapaw wrote:Even though Frank is a PG, he needs to understand that he can and should score too to keep the defense honest. He is way too tentative with his shot.

ROOKIE! He’s got plenty of time to develop his game.

Denial.......you better send you your obscure defensive stats to radically change the minds of all.

http://www.nba.com/video/2018/01/18/20180118-rookie-ladder-nba

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/midseason-nba-rookie-of-the-year-rankings-simmons-holds-slim-lead/ via @CBSSports

fishmike Posts: 48006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA 6/23/2016 12:35 PM fishmike worte" The dream? Would be Pg Rose SG GPII SF Durant PF Melo C Noah Bench: KP, Langston, KOQ, Clyde Frazier
Jmpasq
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1/21/2018  6:52 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/21/2018  7:04 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:
buddapaw wrote:Even though Frank is a PG, he needs to understand that he can and should score too to keep the defense honest. He is way too tentative with his shot.

ROOKIE! He’s got plenty of time to develop his game.

Denial.......you better send in your obscure defensive stats to radically change the minds of all.

http://www.nba.com/video/2018/01/18/20180118-rookie-ladder-nba

[/https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/midseason-nba-rookie-of-the-year-rankings-simmons-holds-slim-lead/url]

What are you going to do it sets the franchise back another year hopefully we make the right choice next time. The couple of scouts and executives who decided to take Frank over Mitchell was the difference from ending this streak of **** and the continued suffering of Knicks fans.

Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
newyorknewyork
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1/21/2018  8:04 PM
Saw the first half which Frank played well. Then switch over for the 2nd half of the Pats-Jags game. I am guessing Frank sucked really bad in the 2nd half.

On the Knicks roster they have Burke, Beasley, Mcdermott, Kanter. All of them were lotto picks drafted for their offensive capabilities who have developed into nothing more than role players in the NBA. Who are all on the team which is struggling right now.

So lets not make it like offensive talent is a sure fire hit. Read Paul George scouting report and he was viewed as a 3 & D G/F who couldn't create his own shot lacking offensive creativity. Watch Donovan Mitchell's Draft express scouting report and he was said to be weak at finishing in the paint, settled on to many low efficient jump shots, not really a PG. He wasn't viewed as an offensive dynamo. There are also plenty of rookies who struggled only to go on to have very good careers. Plenty of rookies who had very good rookie seasons then fell off the map(Brandon Jennings also an offensive lotto pick who played for the Knicks. No longer in the NBA).

Its way to early to come to any real conclusions or to start pushing agendas. Frank was drafted to be a 2 way PG with elite size. The goal is to get him to that level over his rookie contract.

nixluva
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1/21/2018  8:17 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:Saw the first half which Frank played well. Then switch over for the 2nd half of the Pats-Jags game. I am guessing Frank sucked really bad in the 2nd half.

On the Knicks roster they have Burke, Beasley, Mcdermott, Kanter. All of them were lotto picks drafted for their offensive capabilities who have developed into nothing more than role players in the NBA. Who are all on the team which is struggling right now.

So lets not make it like offensive talent is a sure fire hit. Read Paul George scouting report and he was viewed as a 3 & D G/F who couldn't create his own shot lacking offensive creativity. Watch Donovan Mitchell's Draft express scouting report and he was said to be weak at finishing in the paint, settled on to many low efficient jump shots, not really a PG. He wasn't viewed as an offensive dynamo. There are also plenty of rookies who struggled only to go on to have very good careers. Plenty of rookies who had very good rookie seasons then fell off the map(Brandon Jennings also an offensive lotto pick who played for the Knicks. No longer in the NBA).

Its way to early to come to any real conclusions or to start pushing agendas. Frank was drafted to be a 2 way PG with elite size. The goal is to get him to that level over his rookie contract.

EXACTLY 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

StarksEwing1
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1/21/2018  8:40 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:Saw the first half which Frank played well. Then switch over for the 2nd half of the Pats-Jags game. I am guessing Frank sucked really bad in the 2nd half.

On the Knicks roster they have Burke, Beasley, Mcdermott, Kanter. All of them were lotto picks drafted for their offensive capabilities who have developed into nothing more than role players in the NBA. Who are all on the team which is struggling right now.

So lets not make it like offensive talent is a sure fire hit. Read Paul George scouting report and he was viewed as a 3 & D G/F who couldn't create his own shot lacking offensive creativity. Watch Donovan Mitchell's Draft express scouting report and he was said to be weak at finishing in the paint, settled on to many low efficient jump shots, not really a PG. He wasn't viewed as an offensive dynamo. There are also plenty of rookies who struggled only to go on to have very good careers. Plenty of rookies who had very good rookie seasons then fell off the map(Brandon Jennings also an offensive lotto pick who played for the Knicks. No longer in the NBA).

Its way to early to come to any real conclusions or to start pushing agendas. Frank was drafted to be a 2 way PG with elite size. The goal is to get him to that level over his rookie contract.

excellent post. Ive noticed the people who think frank is the bust are the ones who despise phil so that explains a lot. Im happy with frank. His defense and passing is really getting me excited. Obviously his offense is coming along slower but thats ok. He is still a young kid and with more experience he wont be as hesitant and the buckets will come. He has already shown he can hit big shots
HofstraBBall
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1/21/2018  8:42 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/21/2018  8:43 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Saw the first half which Frank played well. Then switch over for the 2nd half of the Pats-Jags game. I am guessing Frank sucked really bad in the 2nd half.

On the Knicks roster they have Burke, Beasley, Mcdermott, Kanter. All of them were lotto picks drafted for their offensive capabilities who have developed into nothing more than role players in the NBA. Who are all on the team which is struggling right now.

So lets not make it like offensive talent is a sure fire hit. Read Paul George scouting report and he was viewed as a 3 & D G/F who couldn't create his own shot lacking offensive creativity. Watch Donovan Mitchell's Draft express scouting report and he was said to be weak at finishing in the paint, settled on to many low efficient jump shots, not really a PG. He wasn't viewed as an offensive dynamo. There are also plenty of rookies who struggled only to go on to have very good careers. Plenty of rookies who had very good rookie seasons then fell off the map(Brandon Jennings also an offensive lotto pick who played for the Knicks. No longer in the NBA).

Its way to early to come to any real conclusions or to start pushing agendas. Frank was drafted to be a 2 way PG with elite size. The goal is to get him to that level over his rookie contract.

excellent post. Ive noticed the people who think frank is the bust are the ones who despise phil so that explains a lot. Im happy with frank. His defense and passing is really getting me excited. Obviously his offense is coming along slower but thats ok. He is still a young kid and with more experience he wont be as hesitant and the buckets will come. He has already shown he can hit big shots

True. But I also notice that guys that excuse every bad game Frank has and keep insisting he was a solid 8 pick are the ones that also thought that Phil and the Triangle had long term potential here.

fishmike Posts: 48006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA 6/23/2016 12:35 PM fishmike worte" The dream? Would be Pg Rose SG GPII SF Durant PF Melo C Noah Bench: KP, Langston, KOQ, Clyde Frazier
StarksEwing1
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1/21/2018  8:46 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Saw the first half which Frank played well. Then switch over for the 2nd half of the Pats-Jags game. I am guessing Frank sucked really bad in the 2nd half.

On the Knicks roster they have Burke, Beasley, Mcdermott, Kanter. All of them were lotto picks drafted for their offensive capabilities who have developed into nothing more than role players in the NBA. Who are all on the team which is struggling right now.

So lets not make it like offensive talent is a sure fire hit. Read Paul George scouting report and he was viewed as a 3 & D G/F who couldn't create his own shot lacking offensive creativity. Watch Donovan Mitchell's Draft express scouting report and he was said to be weak at finishing in the paint, settled on to many low efficient jump shots, not really a PG. He wasn't viewed as an offensive dynamo. There are also plenty of rookies who struggled only to go on to have very good careers. Plenty of rookies who had very good rookie seasons then fell off the map(Brandon Jennings also an offensive lotto pick who played for the Knicks. No longer in the NBA).

Its way to early to come to any real conclusions or to start pushing agendas. Frank was drafted to be a 2 way PG with elite size. The goal is to get him to that level over his rookie contract.

excellent post. Ive noticed the people who think frank is the bust are the ones who despise phil so that explains a lot. Im happy with frank. His defense and passing is really getting me excited. Obviously his offense is coming along slower but thats ok. He is still a young kid and with more experience he wont be as hesitant and the buckets will come. He has already shown he can hit big shots

True. I notice the guys that excuse every bad game Frank has and keep insisting he was a solid 8 pick are the ones that also thought the Phil and the Triangle had long term potential here.

i NEVER liked the triangle and i also felt phil had to go along with Melo. However i like Frank no matter who picked him. Im not saying he isnt raw he definetly is but i think he is gonna be a good two way player for us. His defense and passing is already been real good. Truthfully i dont think he is ever gonna be a bigtime scorer but that doesnt mean he wont contribute on offense. Kid is 19 it will take some time
HofstraBBall
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1/21/2018  8:55 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Saw the first half which Frank played well. Then switch over for the 2nd half of the Pats-Jags game. I am guessing Frank sucked really bad in the 2nd half.

On the Knicks roster they have Burke, Beasley, Mcdermott, Kanter. All of them were lotto picks drafted for their offensive capabilities who have developed into nothing more than role players in the NBA. Who are all on the team which is struggling right now.

So lets not make it like offensive talent is a sure fire hit. Read Paul George scouting report and he was viewed as a 3 & D G/F who couldn't create his own shot lacking offensive creativity. Watch Donovan Mitchell's Draft express scouting report and he was said to be weak at finishing in the paint, settled on to many low efficient jump shots, not really a PG. He wasn't viewed as an offensive dynamo. There are also plenty of rookies who struggled only to go on to have very good careers. Plenty of rookies who had very good rookie seasons then fell off the map(Brandon Jennings also an offensive lotto pick who played for the Knicks. No longer in the NBA).

Its way to early to come to any real conclusions or to start pushing agendas. Frank was drafted to be a 2 way PG with elite size. The goal is to get him to that level over his rookie contract.

excellent post. Ive noticed the people who think frank is the bust are the ones who despise phil so that explains a lot. Im happy with frank. His defense and passing is really getting me excited. Obviously his offense is coming along slower but thats ok. He is still a young kid and with more experience he wont be as hesitant and the buckets will come. He has already shown he can hit big shots

True. I notice the guys that excuse every bad game Frank has and keep insisting he was a solid 8 pick are the ones that also thought the Phil and the Triangle had long term potential here.

i NEVER liked the triangle and i also felt phil had to go along with Melo. However i like Frank no matter who picked him. Im not saying he isnt raw he definetly is but i think he is gonna be a good two way player for us. His defense and passing is already been real good. Truthfully i dont think he is ever gonna be a bigtime scorer but that doesnt mean he wont contribute on offense. Kid is 19 it will take some time

Your missing the point. No one is saying the kid should be vanished or is not a decent player with some potential. The argument from me has always been that he was not and has not played like a true lottery pick. This is a fact thus far. IF he continues to play like this in years to come then he was a miss at 8. Fact.

fishmike Posts: 48006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA 6/23/2016 12:35 PM fishmike worte" The dream? Would be Pg Rose SG GPII SF Durant PF Melo C Noah Bench: KP, Langston, KOQ, Clyde Frazier
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1/21/2018  8:56 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Saw the first half which Frank played well. Then switch over for the 2nd half of the Pats-Jags game. I am guessing Frank sucked really bad in the 2nd half.

On the Knicks roster they have Burke, Beasley, Mcdermott, Kanter. All of them were lotto picks drafted for their offensive capabilities who have developed into nothing more than role players in the NBA. Who are all on the team which is struggling right now.

So lets not make it like offensive talent is a sure fire hit. Read Paul George scouting report and he was viewed as a 3 & D G/F who couldn't create his own shot lacking offensive creativity. Watch Donovan Mitchell's Draft express scouting report and he was said to be weak at finishing in the paint, settled on to many low efficient jump shots, not really a PG. He wasn't viewed as an offensive dynamo. There are also plenty of rookies who struggled only to go on to have very good careers. Plenty of rookies who had very good rookie seasons then fell off the map(Brandon Jennings also an offensive lotto pick who played for the Knicks. No longer in the NBA).

Its way to early to come to any real conclusions or to start pushing agendas. Frank was drafted to be a 2 way PG with elite size. The goal is to get him to that level over his rookie contract.

excellent post. Ive noticed the people who think frank is the bust are the ones who despise phil so that explains a lot. Im happy with frank. His defense and passing is really getting me excited. Obviously his offense is coming along slower but thats ok. He is still a young kid and with more experience he wont be as hesitant and the buckets will come. He has already shown he can hit big shots
Where did you come up with this observation? What does it explain? Phil was a very bad executive. He wasn't despised when he was hired. He was awful at his job and earned any ill will fans, players, agents etc. had for him.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
Marv
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1/21/2018  9:49 PM
Kris Dunn 22 yo rookie 3.8 ppg on 38% fg (29% 3's) w/ 2.4 apg

Chauncey Billups 21 yo rookie 11.2 ppg on 37% fg (33% 3's) w/ 3.9 apg

Derek Harper 22 yo rookie 5.7 ppg on 44% fg (12% 3's) w/ 2.9 apg

Dennis Johnson 22 yo rookie 9.2 ppg 50% fg (42% the next year) w/17% on 3's for career ( no 3's his 1st year) w 1.5 apg

Frank Ntilikina 19 yo rookie 5.3 ppg on 35% fg% (31% 3's) w 3.1 apg

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newyorknewyork
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1/21/2018  9:54 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Saw the first half which Frank played well. Then switch over for the 2nd half of the Pats-Jags game. I am guessing Frank sucked really bad in the 2nd half.

On the Knicks roster they have Burke, Beasley, Mcdermott, Kanter. All of them were lotto picks drafted for their offensive capabilities who have developed into nothing more than role players in the NBA. Who are all on the team which is struggling right now.

So lets not make it like offensive talent is a sure fire hit. Read Paul George scouting report and he was viewed as a 3 & D G/F who couldn't create his own shot lacking offensive creativity. Watch Donovan Mitchell's Draft express scouting report and he was said to be weak at finishing in the paint, settled on to many low efficient jump shots, not really a PG. He wasn't viewed as an offensive dynamo. There are also plenty of rookies who struggled only to go on to have very good careers. Plenty of rookies who had very good rookie seasons then fell off the map(Brandon Jennings also an offensive lotto pick who played for the Knicks. No longer in the NBA).

Its way to early to come to any real conclusions or to start pushing agendas. Frank was drafted to be a 2 way PG with elite size. The goal is to get him to that level over his rookie contract.

excellent post. Ive noticed the people who think frank is the bust are the ones who despise phil so that explains a lot. Im happy with frank. His defense and passing is really getting me excited. Obviously his offense is coming along slower but thats ok. He is still a young kid and with more experience he wont be as hesitant and the buckets will come. He has already shown he can hit big shots

True. But I also notice that guys that excuse every bad game Frank has and keep insisting he was a solid 8 pick are the ones that also thought that Phil and the Triangle had long term potential here.

Can't speak for others. I like the Frank pick as I view him as a fit into the positionless basketball mold that the NBA is adapting to. If we were to run the triangle he would fit as he would fit many other systems because he isn't one dimensional. But I never viewed him as a triangle PG. I don't even believe in the term. I mean Steph Curry is a triangle PG and he plays nothing like Frank as is Donovan Mitchell etc. Basically any PG that can play on and off ball like shoot 3s and move around for easy back door layups while also able to make pocket passes off the PNR and post entry feeds etc. And do little things when the ball isn't in their hands is a triangle PG. Their role would just expand depending on their talent. But I have given my reasoning plenty of times in the past already.

Triangle as I have also stated before is nothing more than a cop out. Ball movement and player movement leading to high % shots. As a Knick fan I don't care if we run the triangle or not. Triangle is just a name. I don't care about none of that ish, its you who want to make it specifically about Phil and Tri. Having multiple versatile players who can play on and off ball & defend multiple positions. Add that with ball movement and player movement. Target players in those molds and hope to land someone really talented in that mold. I would have been happy with a Fultz with the pretense that he could shoot, Tatum, Josh Jackson, Issac, Frank, or Donovan Mitchell as they fit those principals. I would have been fine trading down and trying to land OG Anunoby and Kuzma as they fit those principals.

Sure I wish he had a lot more craft to his game, but he is still young and has time to improve on his craft. I am clearly hoping that he works out as a pick since it would benefit the Knicks if he does.

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1/21/2018  10:27 PM
Frank is definitely a year 3 player. We should not br judging him until year 3. Until then he s going to have many 0 point games and games where he looks good. At this point I do not see star potential in him. Having said that, we made a mistake drafting him over Smith Jr and Mitchell. Those 2 guys look like future stars in the league (esp. Mitchell).
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1/22/2018  3:58 AM
Marv wrote:Kris Dunn 22 yo rookie 3.8 ppg on 38% fg (29% 3's) w/ 2.4 apg

Chauncey Billups 21 yo rookie 11.2 ppg on 37% fg (33% 3's) w/ 3.9 apg

Derek Harper 22 yo rookie 5.7 ppg on 44% fg (12% 3's) w/ 2.9 apg

Dennis Johnson 22 yo rookie 9.2 ppg 50% fg (42% the next year) w/17% on 3's for career ( no 3's his 1st year) w 1.5 apg

Frank Ntilikina 19 yo rookie 5.3 ppg on 35% fg% (31% 3's) w 3.1 apg

Dennis Schröder 20 yo rookie from Europe 3.73 ppg on 38.3% fg (23.8% 3's) w/ 1.9 apg
Giannis Antetokounmpo 19 yo rookie from Europe 6.8 ppg on 41.4%ft (34.7% 3's) w/ 1.9 apg

Frank may be a bust, he may develop into an all star, or just be a solid rotation player. At this point everything is open and for someone to claim they can foresee what the outcome will be is like flippin' a coin.

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1/22/2018  7:34 AM
Juliano wrote:
Marv wrote:Kris Dunn 22 yo rookie 3.8 ppg on 38% fg (29% 3's) w/ 2.4 apg

Chauncey Billups 21 yo rookie 11.2 ppg on 37% fg (33% 3's) w/ 3.9 apg

Derek Harper 22 yo rookie 5.7 ppg on 44% fg (12% 3's) w/ 2.9 apg

Dennis Johnson 22 yo rookie 9.2 ppg 50% fg (42% the next year) w/17% on 3's for career ( no 3's his 1st year) w 1.5 apg

Frank Ntilikina 19 yo rookie 5.3 ppg on 35% fg% (31% 3's) w 3.1 apg

Dennis Schröder 20 yo rookie from Europe 3.73 ppg on 38.3% fg (23.8% 3's) w/ 1.9 apg
Giannis Antetokounmpo 19 yo rookie from Europe 6.8 ppg on 41.4%ft (34.7% 3's) w/ 1.9 apg

Frank may be a bust, he may develop into an all star, or just be a solid rotation player. At this point everything is open and for someone to claim they can foresee what the outcome will be is like flippin' a coin.

Yes please continue to post these stats for Rookies (especially young ones) so many people on the forums have no damn patience it's like they've been indoctrinated to think like mini Dolans.

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1/22/2018  7:58 AM
Marv wrote:Kris Dunn 22 yo rookie 3.8 ppg on 38% fg (29% 3's) w/ 2.4 apg

Chauncey Billups 21 yo rookie 11.2 ppg on 37% fg (33% 3's) w/ 3.9 apg

Derek Harper 22 yo rookie 5.7 ppg on 44% fg (12% 3's) w/ 2.9 apg

Dennis Johnson 22 yo rookie 9.2 ppg 50% fg (42% the next year) w/17% on 3's for career ( no 3's his 1st year) w 1.5 apg

Frank Ntilikina 19 yo rookie 5.3 ppg on 35% fg% (31% 3's) w 3.1 apg

Exactly! You do not give up on him at this point for Kemba Walker. No Way, no how!

He played well yesterday. Did not get time in the 2nd half.

Yet another mistake by Dolan. When will it end?
Juliano
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1/22/2018  8:20 AM
wargames wrote:
Yes please continue to post these stats for Rookies (especially young ones) so many people on the forums have no damn patience it's like they've been indoctrinated to think like mini Dolans.

I feel the most relevant comparison is Schröder. They're both PG, both from Europe. You look at Dennis' NBA stats his rookie year and they were really similar to Frank's, and he's been steadily improving ever since. Once again it's legitimate to have concerns (lack of athleticism, doesn't attack the rim enough, fg% not very good) as it is to have hopes (excellent defensive instincts, good passer, hard worker) there are hints for both, but one cannot claim to knowing what will happen at this point.

By the way, what minimum stats line would make Frank a success three years from now? Would Schröder's be OK? (he's on 17.9 ppg at 45.1% (34% 3's), 3.1rpg 6.3 apg as of this season)

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1/22/2018  9:30 AM
Juliano wrote:
wargames wrote:
Yes please continue to post these stats for Rookies (especially young ones) so many people on the forums have no damn patience it's like they've been indoctrinated to think like mini Dolans.

I feel the most relevant comparison is Schröder. They're both PG, both from Europe. You look at Dennis' NBA stats his rookie year and they were really similar to Frank's, and he's been steadily improving ever since. Once again it's legitimate to have concerns (lack of athleticism, doesn't attack the rim enough, fg% not very good) as it is to have hopes (excellent defensive instincts, good passer, hard worker) there are hints for both, but one cannot claim to knowing what will happen at this point.

By the way, what minimum stats line would make Frank a success three years from now? Would Schröder's be OK? (he's on 17.9 ppg at 45.1% (34% 3's), 3.1rpg 6.3 apg as of this season)

yes, but one has been sent to the G League...one needs to be.

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
I know Ntilikina is only 19 but...

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