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KP At The Five
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fishmike
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1/19/2018  9:08 AM
EnySpree wrote:
fishmike wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:Problem isn't whether KP is a 4 or 5.
It's who he is playing with.

For freaking 3 years straight this team has played KP on a "big" lineup.
Every single year the team has eventually hit a wall.

Right now every game virtually when Kanter is in with him we are down early in games.
It's not that Kanter is a bad player. He's a really good role player. But like we saw with RoLo and the team last year even playing bigger means nothing if you can't score and become post up centric.

We need to find ways to be quicker more able to launch 3 pointers and less reliant on post up or playing off size. It's not getting us enough points to start and get leads in games.

All of this ✔

I disagree... its a defense problem. Kanter's defense is terrible and while he sometime passes the eye test the #s tell an ugly story. Opposing 5s have an EFG of .621
That is one of the worst numbers I have ever seen.

By contrast opposing 4s have a .484 EFG vs. Porzingis

Knicks are 8th in the league in FG%
Knicks are 13th in points per 100/poss

Knicks offense isnt bad. Maybe not great but above average.

I have said from the start and still believe KP's future is a Dirk like stretch 4 who can also be one of the best rim protectors in the league

I hate it but the nba is gong away from that. Beasley right now is the prototypical NBA power fwd. The NBA center is a 3 and d guy now. That's essentially what kp is... I hate it but that's way it is. Kanter is the perfect off the bench hammer. KOQ should be the back up pf... this is what's going to turn our team around.... but we can't keep playing around. We're going to end up losing 10 straight again going the way we're going.

just cause there is a lot of these guys doesnt mean its what the Knicks should do. KP has played much better vs. smaller guys this year.

I dont want to be like other NBA teams. Warriors werent. Spurs arent.

It doesnt really matter to be honest... we are not close to competing. Even if we are close to having the core guys they are going to need a few years.

KP looks like Dirk on offense and Camby on D. Both those guys are better but thats where he can get to be.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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Paris907
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1/19/2018  9:31 AM
As we are all aware, the league is evolving. There is a sharp line between 5s of the past and today’s prototype. The Kanters, Jordan, Dwight Howard’s Represent the past as they are relatively immobile and static without a three in their arsenal. Handling the ball and passing it and quickness and athleticism are characteristics as well. Embiid, Davis, Boogie, Jovik, and Ayers, Begley, Mamba will Be the new type. KP while comfortable today at the 4 and a lackluster rebounder, is a frontcourt player, a four or five depending on matchups. Yet another 4 or 5 who can provide great defense and rebounding and athleticism allows this team to become limitless in its challenge for the conference as KPs shortcomings will be covered, teams won’t bebable to penetrate and matchups will a nightmare.

Then even with THJr and Frank (assuming he can step up offensively) and a capable 3 either through Free Agenxy or draft in 2019 or when Noah and Lee are off the books, can produce a team that is truly capable. Before a athletic 5
Is in our midst, KP will always be exhausted and less than the superstar he is otherwise destined to become.

Knixkik
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1/19/2018  10:42 AM
The true answer here is playing KP at both positions. It depends on matchups mostly. I would like to see Porzingis get about half of his minutes in the smallball lineup for the next year or two, with it gradually increasing over time.
EnySpree
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1/19/2018  11:47 AM
fishmike wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
fishmike wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:Problem isn't whether KP is a 4 or 5.
It's who he is playing with.

For freaking 3 years straight this team has played KP on a "big" lineup.
Every single year the team has eventually hit a wall.

Right now every game virtually when Kanter is in with him we are down early in games.
It's not that Kanter is a bad player. He's a really good role player. But like we saw with RoLo and the team last year even playing bigger means nothing if you can't score and become post up centric.

We need to find ways to be quicker more able to launch 3 pointers and less reliant on post up or playing off size. It's not getting us enough points to start and get leads in games.

All of this ✔

I disagree... its a defense problem. Kanter's defense is terrible and while he sometime passes the eye test the #s tell an ugly story. Opposing 5s have an EFG of .621
That is one of the worst numbers I have ever seen.

By contrast opposing 4s have a .484 EFG vs. Porzingis

Knicks are 8th in the league in FG%
Knicks are 13th in points per 100/poss

Knicks offense isnt bad. Maybe not great but above average.

I have said from the start and still believe KP's future is a Dirk like stretch 4 who can also be one of the best rim protectors in the league

I hate it but the nba is gong away from that. Beasley right now is the prototypical NBA power fwd. The NBA center is a 3 and d guy now. That's essentially what kp is... I hate it but that's way it is. Kanter is the perfect off the bench hammer. KOQ should be the back up pf... this is what's going to turn our team around.... but we can't keep playing around. We're going to end up losing 10 straight again going the way we're going.

just cause there is a lot of these guys doesnt mean its what the Knicks should do. KP has played much better vs. smaller guys this year.

I dont want to be like other NBA teams. Warriors werent. Spurs arent.

It doesnt really matter to be honest... we are not close to competing. Even if we are close to having the core guys they are going to need a few years.

KP looks like Dirk on offense and Camby on D. Both those guys are better but thats where he can get to be.

We have to play what we have though. That's what we have. We have to maximize the roster we have. We just happen to have Beas and KP... Horny Cant trust Kanter down the stretch. So make him a 2nd and 3rd quarter player. We have been ending up with KP, Beas, Frank, THJr and Lee at the end. Let it be. Those guys should be starting

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fishmike
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1/19/2018  12:04 PM
think about setting a player up for success.

KP isnt soft but he's not a rugged player. The scouting report is to keep a body on him and wear him down. Thats because it works. KP is not a great rebounder. KP is bad at setting picks, part of that is his body type as well. He protects the rim for sure.

Knicks need a rugged player next to him. At center KP is average or below in too many key areas. At PF he's a unicorn.

Sure we will go small at times and when teams run out these line ups full of 6-7 guys then yea... KP at center makes a ton of sense. He's really just a 4 vs. a 3.

KP is good guarding guys who score from outside. KP is good guarding guys who score from inside. KP struggles more to cover guys who score from both, cause really everyone does. Thats what makes them versatile scorers. This is also part of his maturation. His defensive skills are still raw despite how effective he is. He still doesnt hedge his space well at all. He either overcommits to helping leaving his cover for an open 3 or he's too far out to help. That will also come with time. The effort is there.

KP needs to be a primary 4. Thats where his value is special. Not banging with the lunkheads inside. Same way with Frank for that matter playing the 1 vs. 2.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
martin
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1/19/2018  12:41 PM
fishmike wrote:think about setting a player up for success.

KP isnt soft but he's not a rugged player. The scouting report is to keep a body on him and wear him down. Thats because it works. KP is not a great rebounder. KP is bad at setting picks, part of that is his body type as well. He protects the rim for sure.

Knicks need a rugged player next to him. At center KP is average or below in too many key areas. At PF he's a unicorn.

Sure we will go small at times and when teams run out these line ups full of 6-7 guys then yea... KP at center makes a ton of sense. He's really just a 4 vs. a 3.

KP is good guarding guys who score from outside. KP is good guarding guys who score from inside. KP struggles more to cover guys who score from both, cause really everyone does. Thats what makes them versatile scorers. This is also part of his maturation. His defensive skills are still raw despite how effective he is. He still doesnt hedge his space well at all. He either overcommits to helping leaving his cover for an open 3 or he's too far out to help. That will also come with time. The effort is there.

KP needs to be a primary 4. Thats where his value is special. Not banging with the lunkheads inside. Same way with Frank for that matter playing the 1 vs. 2.

This is pretty much my thoughts.

I wonder if KP is suffering a bit guarding the 3PT line on his man because he knows the Knicks interior defense SUCKS without him. Kanter.

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Nalod
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1/19/2018  1:17 PM
fishmike wrote:think about setting a player up for success.

KP isnt soft but he's not a rugged player. The scouting report is to keep a body on him and wear him down. Thats because it works. KP is not a great rebounder. KP is bad at setting picks, part of that is his body type as well. He protects the rim for sure.

Knicks need a rugged player next to him. At center KP is average or below in too many key areas. At PF he's a unicorn.

Sure we will go small at times and when teams run out these line ups full of 6-7 guys then yea... KP at center makes a ton of sense. He's really just a 4 vs. a 3.

KP is good guarding guys who score from outside. KP is good guarding guys who score from inside. KP struggles more to cover guys who score from both, cause really everyone does. Thats what makes them versatile scorers. This is also part of his maturation. His defensive skills are still raw despite how effective he is. He still doesnt hedge his space well at all. He either overcommits to helping leaving his cover for an open 3 or he's too far out to help. That will also come with time. The effort is there.

KP needs to be a primary 4. Thats where his value is special. Not banging with the lunkheads inside. Same way with Frank for that matter playing the 1 vs. 2.

Basically we need an "oak"!!! Tough slow guy with limited offensive skills, Slow feet, quick mouth, avg athletic ability but superior body control, not a good handle, good rebounder, good hand checker, will foul out every game, but they fear him...........

Actually yes, we need "Donkey Dale"!!! or Kendra. We need what Indiana did, pair Smits with big rugged MOFO's. Actually the Davis twins were very Oak.

I know where GS has gone but its not for all teams to do this. SAS and Thunder have used big thick dudes for centers for some time. Timmy had some big dudes and Adams for the thunder has worked well. kanter is a better offensive player than them. Draymond/Rodman types are rare and hard to draft.
This new fangled way is not so new. Detroit used a shorter Ben Wallace at center and Rasheed fired away threes. A chip and two trips to finals!!
Philly had right idea if Norlens was commited to defense. Either Oka4 or Embiid on the offensive end.
Knicks don't have that rugged guy. I suppose the hope was Noel would be that guy. He is that guy. Willy is not. KOQ is a good back up and good passer.

KP At The Five

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