martin wrote:

nixluva wrote:One thing about this game that I liked and hope to see again was that Jeff went SMALL and it REALLY opened up the paint. With KP or just KOQ as the C and Beaz at PF this team was able to really run Spread PnR to perfection.

It was effective against Brooklyn but was it effective because the Knicks went small or because Brooklyn didn't have any effective bigs to guard the paint?

That’s the thing. You don’t have to do it all the time just as a change up cuz teams get adjusted to the standard way the Knicks run their Offense. IMO the 4th Qtr swoons are a result of teams adjustments to the KP Post Ups etc. I think by going smaller and more aggressive with a faster tempo and Spread PnR could help solve the problem.

Even if the other teams have a Center it can still work to make teams cover much more ground which can open up more 3 pt shots and driving lanes. It’s gonna be interesting to see what Jeff does.

martin wrote:

TPercy wrote:

martin wrote:

Marv wrote:frank played like this game after game in the euro league, especially as tournament play got torqued up. it was all available to see on video. it's obviously a huge adjustment to translate that effectiveness to the nba. he showed today he's got it, the next step is to up the consistency. similar to porzingis showing earlier in the year that he can be a top-10 player in the league but then showing he hasn't got the consistency yet to sustain it.

feel like Frank is at the same stage KP was as a rookie. Shows flashes, can't do it on a consistent basis but plenty of evidence to suggest he could.

IMHO sky is the limit for both guys as long as they work their game and body in offseason.

Not even close dude. KP was playing like a player that belonged in the NBA during his rookie season. The game Frank had today was a game KP was having every 2-3 games or so. Frank had a one in a bluemoon outing against a **** club. Frank is still years behind unless this game is start of a major turning point. Also, KP didn't have a negative WS48.

Though this comes off as harsh, that is not to say that Frank hasn't shown flashes every now and then and that he wont become a near triple double machine 4-5 years from now, but we have to keep our assesments honest.

PG position is much harder to fill into then just playing other positions. KP had a nice cushion with Melo, Lopez and even Afflalo to work with; he was at best the second option on the team or even third on offense. KP is also a year older than Frank when they entered league.

KP was doing more unicorny things at this stage and maybe it was more often, but really who cares? Maybe KP's potential is higher than Franks, but again who cares?

I feel like I've seen enough such that Frank will have the same jumps as KP did in second and third years.

Fair comment about KP being a year older and that the PG position is harder to fill but Frank is playing on a better team. He is playing with KP,Thjr, Lee, Kanter, a better KOQ and is surrounded by fantastic hardworking role players as well. The environment he is playing in is more supportive and less toxic.

To your “who cares” comment you are right in the sense that at the end of the day the most important thing that matters to a that Frank gets to where he is, but in terms of how long it takes to get there it most certainly matters Imo that KP showd a lot more flashes of what he was capable of relative to Frank.

I think Franks jump will be contingent on his feel for the game. If he can continue to be aggressive and not let his confidence sink every time he throws the ball away then sure

martin wrote:Okafor must really suck if he can't even get minutes on a Brooklyn team without any effective bigs

he was dressed to play?? wow. that is bad. i am sure he's thinking what did i do (or did not do) to deserve this

martin wrote:Okafor must really suck if he can't even get minutes on a Brooklyn team without any effective bigs

Re-watching the game on Knicks Rewind. Okafor is horrible. He has no energy. He looks like he has given up.

One thing that us Knick fans often forget is that we aren't the most talented, deepest team in the NBA. When ANY player in our rotation gets hurt, there's usually a pretty deep gap in talent/experience/readiness/2-wayness.

It's important to consider that several players we've relied on heavily this season are journeymen. It's a testament that our many of our players are having career years. The flipside of that is that they're playing at a higher level than they've ever been able to sustain.

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

blkexec wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:what a difference a trey (pressure) makes....

You guys are FUNNY! What F’n Pressure? Frank is gonna play and was not in danger of losing minutes today. Burke is hopefully going to be a nice addition but he wasn’t taking Frank’s spot.

so everyone including the commentator sees it but you??

You act like putting pressure on Nitty is a bad thing; it's not. It's good. Look at the way he's playing.

I haven't watched a single minite.....but I know basketball.....and usually I agree with nix....but have to disagree on this. Trey was a contributing factor in Frank's good play. Along with his coach and teammates and fans.....im sure everybody is in his ear. But it's good for Frank to play or see up close how penetration and shooting and being offensiveit aggressive can help the team at times.

Burke was coming REGARDLESS of Frank’s recent play. Frank has been a net positive all season while Burke is the one with something to prove. Frank was playing well in this game already before Burke’s minutes and Frank came back in on his normal rotation. Frank and Burke may actually play together going forward they’re both young guys who should figure into the plan for the future.

LOL funny.

Before the recent slump the Knicks were a +1.7 on the year with Frank on the court despite his low scoring. The TEAM was better when he was on the floor. After the recent slump it dropped to a +0.8.
I suspect that a kid like Frank that is a relatively raw 19 yr old can and should improve but is going to have ups and downs.

It’s going to be interesting to see Frank develop more confidence on offense and to become less hesitant to attack more often.

Cartman718 wrote:

TPercy wrote:

martin wrote:

TPercy wrote:

martin wrote:

Marv wrote:frank played like this game after game in the euro league, especially as tournament play got torqued up. it was all available to see on video. it's obviously a huge adjustment to translate that effectiveness to the nba. he showed today he's got it, the next step is to up the consistency. similar to porzingis showing earlier in the year that he can be a top-10 player in the league but then showing he hasn't got the consistency yet to sustain it.

feel like Frank is at the same stage KP was as a rookie. Shows flashes, can't do it on a consistent basis but plenty of evidence to suggest he could.

IMHO sky is the limit for both guys as long as they work their game and body in offseason.

Not even close dude. KP was playing like a player that belonged in the NBA during his rookie season. The game Frank had today was a game KP was having every 2-3 games or so. Frank had a one in a bluemoon outing against a **** club. Frank is still years behind unless this game is start of a major turning point. Also, KP didn't have a negative WS48.

Though this comes off as harsh, that is not to say that Frank hasn't shown flashes every now and then and that he wont become a near triple double machine 4-5 years from now, but we have to keep our assesments honest.

PG position is much harder to fill into then just playing other positions. KP had a nice cushion with Melo, Lopez and even Afflalo to work with; he was at best the second option on the team or even third on offense. KP is also a year older than Frank when they entered league.

KP was doing more unicorny things at this stage and maybe it was more often, but really who cares? Maybe KP's potential is higher than Franks, but again who cares?

I feel like I've seen enough such that Frank will have the same jumps as KP did in second and third years.

Fair comment about KP being a year older and that the PG position is harder to fill but Frank is playing on a better team. He is playing with KP,Thjr, Lee, Kanter, a better KOQ and is surrounded by fantastic hardworking role players as well. The environment he is playing in is more supportive and less toxic.

To your “who cares” comment you are right in the sense that at the end of the day the most important thing that matters to a that Frank gets to where he is, but in terms of how long it takes to get there it most certainly matters Imo that KP showd a lot more flashes of what he was capable of relative to Frank.

I think Franks jump will be contingent on his feel for the game. If he can continue to be aggressive and not let his confidence sink every time he throws the ball away then sure

To me, it looks like considering Frank didn't play much preseason and there was that injury he was dealing with, I think its not going to get substantially better for the rest of this season. I always get the impression from him that he is in..."this is year 1 of my nba career, so i am going to make sure i remain healthy, team goals are secondary"
If that is true, that approach is understandable, but this is a what have you done for me lately league. If he is too careful about his health, someone could easily steal that spot from him.

To me, driving to the hoop is something he must do every time he sees an opening. He's got the length to finish and pass out of the paint. Better than having TOs at the top of the key where the other team is already halfway down the court. If he has a TO in the paint, its still ok because there are other defenders back.

I feel the complete opposite. You gain understanding of role and team offense during training camp and it is especially so for first year players.

After missing training camp and preseason, Frank needed time to adjust, learn Knicks offense, learn NBA players and will soon show a bigger role. Maybe like post All-Star break if he doesn't hit a rookie wall.

Cartman718 wrote:

TPercy wrote:

martin wrote:

TPercy wrote:

martin wrote:

Marv wrote:frank played like this game after game in the euro league, especially as tournament play got torqued up. it was all available to see on video. it's obviously a huge adjustment to translate that effectiveness to the nba. he showed today he's got it, the next step is to up the consistency. similar to porzingis showing earlier in the year that he can be a top-10 player in the league but then showing he hasn't got the consistency yet to sustain it.

feel like Frank is at the same stage KP was as a rookie. Shows flashes, can't do it on a consistent basis but plenty of evidence to suggest he could.

IMHO sky is the limit for both guys as long as they work their game and body in offseason.

Not even close dude. KP was playing like a player that belonged in the NBA during his rookie season. The game Frank had today was a game KP was having every 2-3 games or so. Frank had a one in a bluemoon outing against a **** club. Frank is still years behind unless this game is start of a major turning point. Also, KP didn't have a negative WS48.

Though this comes off as harsh, that is not to say that Frank hasn't shown flashes every now and then and that he wont become a near triple double machine 4-5 years from now, but we have to keep our assesments honest.

PG position is much harder to fill into then just playing other positions. KP had a nice cushion with Melo, Lopez and even Afflalo to work with; he was at best the second option on the team or even third on offense. KP is also a year older than Frank when they entered league.

KP was doing more unicorny things at this stage and maybe it was more often, but really who cares? Maybe KP's potential is higher than Franks, but again who cares?

I feel like I've seen enough such that Frank will have the same jumps as KP did in second and third years.

Fair comment about KP being a year older and that the PG position is harder to fill but Frank is playing on a better team. He is playing with KP,Thjr, Lee, Kanter, a better KOQ and is surrounded by fantastic hardworking role players as well. The environment he is playing in is more supportive and less toxic.

To your “who cares” comment you are right in the sense that at the end of the day the most important thing that matters to a that Frank gets to where he is, but in terms of how long it takes to get there it most certainly matters Imo that KP showd a lot more flashes of what he was capable of relative to Frank.

I think Franks jump will be contingent on his feel for the game. If he can continue to be aggressive and not let his confidence sink every time he throws the ball away then sure

To me, it looks like considering Frank didn't play much preseason and there was that injury he was dealing with, I think its not going to get substantially better for the rest of this season. I always get the impression from him that he is in..."this is year 1 of my nba career, so i am going to make sure i remain healthy, team goals are secondary"
If that is true, that approach is understandable, but this is a what have you done for me lately league. If he is too careful about his health, someone could easily steal that spot from him.

To me, driving to the hoop is something he must do every time he sees an opening. He's got the length to finish and pass out of the paint. Better than having TOs at the top of the key where the other team is already halfway down the court. If he has a TO in the paint, its still ok because there are other defenders back.

I know you missed the game but if you saw him go for a two handed dunk head to head with Allen, their biggest and best shot blocker, you wouldn’t think he was playing to stay healthy. It was pretty boss. He just plays with a more controlled pace than we’re used to seeing. He had been getting more aggressive and as our offense (KP and Timmy) get more keyed into by the opposing defenses it will open more lanes for him to drive.

Zebo13 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

TPercy wrote:

martin wrote:

TPercy wrote:

martin wrote:

Marv wrote:frank played like this game after game in the euro league, especially as tournament play got torqued up. it was all available to see on video. it's obviously a huge adjustment to translate that effectiveness to the nba. he showed today he's got it, the next step is to up the consistency. similar to porzingis showing earlier in the year that he can be a top-10 player in the league but then showing he hasn't got the consistency yet to sustain it.

feel like Frank is at the same stage KP was as a rookie. Shows flashes, can't do it on a consistent basis but plenty of evidence to suggest he could.

IMHO sky is the limit for both guys as long as they work their game and body in offseason.

Not even close dude. KP was playing like a player that belonged in the NBA during his rookie season. The game Frank had today was a game KP was having every 2-3 games or so. Frank had a one in a bluemoon outing against a **** club. Frank is still years behind unless this game is start of a major turning point. Also, KP didn't have a negative WS48.

Though this comes off as harsh, that is not to say that Frank hasn't shown flashes every now and then and that he wont become a near triple double machine 4-5 years from now, but we have to keep our assesments honest.

PG position is much harder to fill into then just playing other positions. KP had a nice cushion with Melo, Lopez and even Afflalo to work with; he was at best the second option on the team or even third on offense. KP is also a year older than Frank when they entered league.

KP was doing more unicorny things at this stage and maybe it was more often, but really who cares? Maybe KP's potential is higher than Franks, but again who cares?

I feel like I've seen enough such that Frank will have the same jumps as KP did in second and third years.

Fair comment about KP being a year older and that the PG position is harder to fill but Frank is playing on a better team. He is playing with KP,Thjr, Lee, Kanter, a better KOQ and is surrounded by fantastic hardworking role players as well. The environment he is playing in is more supportive and less toxic.

To your “who cares” comment you are right in the sense that at the end of the day the most important thing that matters to a that Frank gets to where he is, but in terms of how long it takes to get there it most certainly matters Imo that KP showd a lot more flashes of what he was capable of relative to Frank.

I think Franks jump will be contingent on his feel for the game. If he can continue to be aggressive and not let his confidence sink every time he throws the ball away then sure

To me, it looks like considering Frank didn't play much preseason and there was that injury he was dealing with, I think its not going to get substantially better for the rest of this season. I always get the impression from him that he is in..."this is year 1 of my nba career, so i am going to make sure i remain healthy, team goals are secondary"
If that is true, that approach is understandable, but this is a what have you done for me lately league. If he is too careful about his health, someone could easily steal that spot from him.

To me, driving to the hoop is something he must do every time he sees an opening. He's got the length to finish and pass out of the paint. Better than having TOs at the top of the key where the other team is already halfway down the court. If he has a TO in the paint, its still ok because there are other defenders back.

I know you missed the game but if you saw him go for a two handed dunk head to head with Allen, their biggest and best shot blocker, you wouldn’t think he was playing to stay healthy. It was pretty boss. He just plays with a more controlled pace than we’re used to seeing. He had been getting more aggressive and as our offense (KP and Timmy) get more keyed into by the opposing defenses it will open more lanes for him to drive.